[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

[Cory Caboose]

So I try and do exactly what you ask of me and you just say **** you, im not going to let you do what I want you to do. Nice play.

 

I spent the entire of EoD torturing myself and giving more than I'd like of myself to playing this game and you've been in the corner whining afaict

 

You are at the bottom of most people's PoE

 

Sorry if that sounds super jerkoffish but the fact is I have been very open and you haven't, so you trying to turn the tables on me is dumb and again a waste of my time

[Zander?]

Hello frands gonna try to get caught up some here!!!

 

im around if anyone wants to talk

[Zander?]

 

 

That's BS Z. My lynch wasn't happeninga d dice could have hammered hours before that but waited because he was asked to. How aboit you state all the facts rather than just those that agree with you?

 

 

see my above post

 

Please. Thats not enough to secure a lynch. So no lynch was a real possibility. Theres also the fact that lynching me would have been disgusting and stupid cause there was NO CASE AGAINST ME. Even BFG said it would have been one of the most uninformed votes she had ever made. Honestly the sudden attempt to switch over to me reeked. I said so, Pral said so, Im sure someone else did to I just cant remember who.

 

Can someone legit tell me why a lynch on me would be a good idea? Zander if you answer this it better have more words than "CAUSE YOUR A WOLF DUHHHHHH".

 

 

 

your horrible reads list

your constant whining poor poor me

your whole defense "ITS ONLY ZANDERS FORCE OF PERSONALITY" thats making people think im scum BS

 

and to me the most importantly you've done NOTHING to make me feel any better about you at ALL!!!!!

[Clovdyx]

Cory - what was your one not very good reason for thinking Sooh is town?  Because to Lenlo's credit... your lists have had her consistently low, and you've seem to have gone back and forth with her, but you really HAVEN'T shown much towards figuring her out (and I believe you have a tendency to distance from teammates early on, rather than outright bussing).  I still think you are significantly greater than rand to be town, but if Sooh is mafia, I don't think some concern of you is unreasonable.

[Clovdyx]

I would love to hear the differences between Lenlo and BFG's reads lists.  That's for anybody, but mostly Sooh and Zander.

[Clovdyx]

I say this because BFG and Lenlo posted reads lists that certainly had some noticeable differences, but I don't think were completely conflicting with one another...and it doesn't seem like anybody really questioned or discussed her list, or the reasons.  Lenlo's list, in contrast, has two people pointing out how horrible it is within five hours - with no attempt to explain what was awful about it.

 

That's not odd.

[Zander?]

This is ofc colored by my belief that Zander is hard core deep wolfing all of you though.

 

 

[Zander?]

I would love to hear the differences between Lenlo and BFG's reads lists.  That's for anybody, but mostly Sooh and Zander.

 

DIFFERENCE is Clov is that Len's was at the very first of the game and had Thane has #2 scummiest read off of 2 hello posts  I'm sorry I know im all about Gut reads but his was off of NOTHING at all.  Seemed like he just choose what he prolly perceived as an easy mislynch target.

[Clovdyx]

 

I would love to hear the differences between Lenlo and BFG's reads lists.  That's for anybody, but mostly Sooh and Zander.

 

DIFFERENCE is Clov is that Len's was at the very first of the game and had Thane has #2 scummiest read off of 2 hello posts  I'm sorry I know im all about Gut reads but his was off of NOTHING at all.  Seemed like he just choose what he prolly perceived as an easy mislynch target.

 

 

I meant the one he just posted this afternoon.  I assumed that's what you were referencing in your previous post.

[Zander?]

I can tell you from my perspective that I chose to move to a counterwagon first and foremost because I believed him.  Cory expressed the same.  I also saw a mechanical advantage to keeping him alive.  Nomi and Zander were never on him to begin with.  Sili flipflopped a bit with counter wagons but committed to Rack in the end.

 

Sili nervously bouncing his vote around a bunch when something unexpected happens is definitely not out of character for his town game, and he went for Rack in the end.  Not going to speak for Cory.  But without checking to see if I missed something important I think your theory is only applicable to the two of us.

 

Sooh effectively voted Rack.  As in, if she's scum and no one hammered and she weaseled out of it at the last second we would be policy lynching her tomorrow.

 

So you're looking at 4 scum between:

 

TMI avoiding a town wagon preemptively (Zander, Nomi)

Your theory or something along those lines (Me, Cory)

Scum waiting to see how things go down and then calculating a stance after the fact (BFG)

Scum on the wagon (everyone else)

 

 

im not following this fully can you we explain a bit more please?

[Zander?]

 

 

I would love to hear the differences between Lenlo and BFG's reads lists.  That's for anybody, but mostly Sooh and Zander.

 

DIFFERENCE is Clov is that Len's was at the very first of the game and had Thane has #2 scummiest read off of 2 hello posts  I'm sorry I know im all about Gut reads but his was off of NOTHING at all.  Seemed like he just choose what he prolly perceived as an easy mislynch target.

 

 

I meant the one he just posted this afternoon.  I assumed that's what you were referencing in your previous post.

 

 

no sorry im catching up i havent seen a 2nd yet im talking about the one from the beginning of the game like ive mentioned before.

[Zander?]

But BFG knows she looks awful right now, so I'd like to at least see how she handles this extended night phase before I pressure her too much.

 

 

BFG probably scum?  Simple matter of town telling pretty well and I don't think there can be that many deep wolves.  She's got plenty of time to show it if she's town before the next lynch DL.

 

i like posts like these from Shad, he's been making them all game and its a good look for him.  Hes looking at all the options and giving time to formulate his reads from them.

 

Tab BFG Lenlo.  Sooh?  Need to look at Hallia and Nomi again.

 

i thought Tab had trended up some for me.  Would you share your thoughts on her for me?  thanks brother.

[Zander?]

I guarantee you Z is deep wolfin you man.

 

you keep saying this yet it really seems your only sussing me because I was sussing you.  its a horribad look for you imo.

[Zander?]

So now I'm looking at Shad as being shady given that end of day, now distancing from BFG, her partner, and Sooh being a big ole question mark.

 

Oh, and of course, Dice looks really meh to me, but I defer to others.

 

Disagree on Shad,  Dice scum.

 

 

Hey Zander, we're scum together. Did you know that?

 

I think we should murder Shad tonight. A BFG is fine as well.

 

um sorry but no to all

[Zander?]

 

/snip

 

Then I scrambled over to BFG because why not, I almost feel like BFG posting now when the round is decided is just sort of padding.

 

You know, for all intents and purposes, the round is decided. I would be surprised if even my active discussion about moving it in any other direction would have any effect other than for me to be lynched as the alternative to Rack.

 

This is the single safest part of the round for scums to post in, and BFG could simply be padding her D1 contributions.

 

It's so weak, so flimsy. BFG was one of the people who noted the same thing I noted in my defense of myself, if I recall, about the nature of humanity, we contradict ourselves, etc.

In 3 of 4 of my most recent games as town I've been amongst the highest posters. 'Padding' my post count now isn't going to mean much to anyone. I was hoping by now I'd have more opinions, or at least be more confident with my thoughts, but everything's still a bit grey and I only really post when I have things to say, or mostly when there are people to prod.

 

 

 

That was also a subtle indicator that BFG is either highly reasonable and eminently wonderful, or, knows I'm town.

:)

 

 

 

 

i dont feel BFG is fully into the swing of things yet but i havent hated what ive seen so far from her.

 

also is post count really indicative of BFG's town game?

[Zander?]

 

i will not be around much this weekend, halloween celebrations and all.

 

Rack wasn't lying it seemed. It's good to know how he works, should we ever have another game together. I think him being an unknown to most got him killed, so it'll be interesting to see who overly pushed him, and who didn't. 

 

Sucks for Pral not to have made it to D2. He's quite unlucky lately.

 

i'll peek in every now and then, and am looking forward to start D2. It'll be game on then.     

1. yes, obviously he wasn't lying. did you figure this out just now?

 

2. it is good, but nows not really the time to focus on his meta.

 

3. yes, if ppl knew him better he probably wouldnt have been lynched.

 

4. how does this 'itll be interesting to see who pushed him' follow from the rest of the sentence?

 

5. whats the point of this post? a sitrep for the game?

 

Bro, so awkward and hamfisted and forced and i want to kill you right now right here. it sends all the wrong signals to me and i remember your wolf game is this. just this.

 

 

i disagree i feel it was a genuine and typical Thane comment.  not forced at all imo.

[Cory Caboose]

Cory - what was your one not very good reason for thinking Sooh is town?  Because to Lenlo's credit... your lists have had her consistently low, and you've seem to have gone back and forth with her, but you really HAVEN'T shown much towards figuring her out (and I believe you have a tendency to distance from teammates early on, rather than outright bussing).  I still think you are significantly greater than rand to be town, but if Sooh is mafia, I don't think some concern of you is unreasonable.

 

Sooh reacted in a way I have only seen her react as a villager to someone's prodding, I don't really remember who

 

I can find it but you won't agree with it because it's one of those things we never agree about but I would still GUESS I'm right

[Cory Caboose]

I think BFG is a good degree > rand to be a wolf

 

But Lenlo has more [content I'm meh about] simply because he has [more content]

 

Hard to dissect BFG's lack of content other than to keep her low in the PoE

[Clovdyx]

Words hurt, Cory. :(

[Cory Caboose]

So does hugging a porcupine but we all need love

[Zander?]

Honestly I started getting tired the further down I got in his ISO :/  So probably less and less coherent?

 

Lenlo ISO

Page 1:

- first post still bugs me, I think I said something before of it being forced and just bleh

- votes Corlanna with a "get in here" - this starts the Zander feud? lol

- this post comes off a bit frustrated/annoyed(?) to me but he did have Zander/Yates/Rack/Sili(?) pushing him if I recall correctly

- Same as above with this post; I'm hesitant to say TOAN because lolCory and I can't read TOAN but just bleh so far 

- It's funny because his other posts around where he's responding to accusations aren't really bothering me too much

- This is probably the first good post from him all game: he's responding to Clov about some reads, asking questions (specifically about sooh)

- Lenlo's reads list. I mentioned wanting to look at this a bit closer. I don't fully AGREE with the reads (especially the scums, besides Sooh) but I do find his notes getting there easy to follow and I appreciate that he even put up a list so early d1. Shows he's working to solve. @LENLO can you put up a more current and ordered list?  Do you still feel the same about Thane?  

- I do like that Lenlo is working with Thane, that's not a bother, but his responses to Zander are all awful. You two shouldn't be in a game together, ever.

 

Page 2-3

-Some back and forth with Zander, which is annoying (I'm resisting the urge to just skim it all)

-Interactions with Shad/Sili; waiting on word from Rack, sus of Corlanna.

-States issue with Zander: using jokes as a smokescreen, following posts pushes Zander to provide "original content"    **What you have to understand about Zander is that it's literally his personality that you have a problem with. It's just who Zander is. He jokes, he spams, he defends me whole heartedly (BFF-towns ldo) and that's how it is. I've been bugging him to articulate better what he's trying to explain in game and I think he's made good progress. Before he would just point at quote and say "look" or say "I quoted that like 10 pages ago lololol" but I actually see effort here and him (trying) to clearly explain his thought process. I consider that to be good and coming from a town!Zander. I can't exactly pinpoint what is different with his scum game because I've only been in a game with him as scum once (Belichick), but there IS a difference there that I feel confident in noticing over time. So, I'm not saying to drop your case against him, but maybe hold back on calling him mafia purely because you don't like how he plays or that he's too jokey. Quite frankly, the back and forth between the two of you is distracting and annoying and I'd rather find scum than lisen to you bicker all damn game.

- This post. Zander and I will defend each other. It's how we feel each other out and gauge the other's alignment. This is normal. So Zander will ALWAYS vote someone who votes me. Fwiw, I have Zander slotted strong town this game, he's not going to get lynched on my watch. 

- This post is just a lack of meta knowledge, imo. And all out of order coming from Rack. so meh

- After agreeing to Rack's viewpoint on Zander, votes Rack when his responses aren't good enough.

- spammy gifs

- I like this

- Puts bottom three as Zander, Sooh/Rack

- Again getting on to the Zander blame: I feel like this is going both ways, but Lenlo is accusing Zander of constantly bringing the disagreements between them back to light. Again, annoying.

 

Page 4-5

-Once again, another one of these posts. I think this is a townie move: Lenlo is choosing to look elsewhere and pull away from the tunnel, which is a good thing. He wants to solve. I wish I could see some cases though and not just votes.

- not happy to be low on my list

- Again pushing the blame on Zander. This comment gets me though "I also have yet to see an argument saying Zander is town that isn't 99% meta dependent." Kinda true, but meta reads work most of the time. Personally I think Zander is doing better than usual on content

- A few good posts asking about reads, engaging with Thane

- Zander is now "you know who" lol Zander = Voldemort

- (alanna skimming a little bc eyes tired)

- bottom 4: Zander, Corlanna, Sooh/BFG

 

Okay.. thoughts. I think Lenlo started out pretty rough. His beginning stuff (esp the first post) felt very fake and then he came under some pressure which he didn't really take well but he seemed frustrted to be getting the attention. Other than that a lot of his posts are taken up by arguments with Zander, which are frankly getting old. The basis of them is that Zander has no original content and is getting cleared purely for his personality and meta reasons, which I fully disagree with. Zander on the other hand is just calling Lenlo a wolf over and over again, which  is basically his case(?), but I'm not really seeing a wolf here. Zander is a gut reader, Lenlo goes for content, I'm not surprised they're butting heads. I think once Lenlo got out of the limelight, he kept working on a solve despite Zander's pushes and eventually stopped being so reactive towards Zander. I feel comfortable taking Lenlo out of my scum reads for now as long as I see some progression day 2 from him on his reads.

 

 

i love the work you put into this but not the conclusion.  have you talked with Cory about Lenlo.  cause thats where your vote was my dear.

 

but youre still GOAT ldo

[Sooh]

I say this because BFG and Lenlo posted reads lists that certainly had some noticeable differences, but I don't think were completely conflicting with one another...and it doesn't seem like anybody really questioned or discussed her list, or the reasons.  Lenlo's list, in contrast, has two people pointing out how horrible it is within five hours - with no attempt to explain what was awful about it.

 

That's not odd.

Can you point me to BFG's reads list that you're referring to?

I can't seem to find it, unless it's the one she posted yesterday you mean, before she had a chance to ISO and read up. 

[Clovdyx]

I am talking about that one, Sooh.

[Zander?]

For Alanna:

 

 

 

Town:

 Clov

 Yates

 Lenlo

 

Null to Town:

 Shad

 Sili

 Nomi

 

Null: 

 Hallia

 Taborline

 

Null to Scum:

 Dice

 

Scum:

Sooh/BFG

Zander

Corlanna

 

 

 

so assuming this is the reads list you were talking about Clov.  its not as bad but its still bad imo.  basically hes scum reading me for scum reading him and and now hes seemingly doing the same to Corlanna.

 

so his 2 strongest wolf reads are the 2 (3) people sussing him while they are in the general consensus of being in most peoples reads lists.

 

also fyi- the 4 (5) people in his 2nd poor read list were all people that were voting him at DL or said they would have....prolly just a coincidence...lolololololololololol

 

 AND LASTLY i dont consider Len to be a bad player cause ive heard he was very good so not a bad Townie....so WOLF.

 

COME ON PEOPLE HOW ARE YOU NOT SEEING THIS????!!!!!

[Sooh]

I am talking about that one, Sooh.

Well then I'm not sure what you're talking about with those lists being similar. To me they look pretty much nothing alike at all.