[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

[Lenlo]

Cause im curious if that list matchs up with those jumping ship over to me, when it was a real possibility that Rack could shoot Sooh.

 

Cause get this: If Sooh is scum and Rack is going to shoot them, then it is in scums best interest to lynch someone other than Rack /OR/ convince him to shoot someone else so as to save a teammate. Cause the push on me never really built until Rack announced his role.

 

Thoughts?

[Shad_]

  On 10/28/2015 at 4:32 PM, rackcitysteelers said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 4:27 PM, Zander said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 3:07 AM, rackcitysteelers said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 12:41 AM, Clovdyx said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 12:29 AM, rackcitysteelers said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 12:17 AM, Clovdyx said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 12:15 AM, rackcitysteelers said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 12:08 AM, Clovdyx said:

Things that make me say, "Hmmm..."

Penny for you thoughts?

Your argument is not very good, and Sili following you - if serious - is terribad.

I obviously disagree on the argument so we'll just agree to disagree on this point

I'm sure you do, but I don't see how. The initial post thing is whatever - if you don't know Zander, it might feel forced, but I can pull dozens of examples of posts like that where he was town. I think it was Yates that summed it up perfectly...it's 100% null for him.

 

Defending and backing people up is a pretty fair claim, but as I said with Pral, not sure that's really scummy. Finding townies significantly narrows down the possible pool for mafia, so there's a lot of value there, and I would say it's usually easier to find a few good town reads on D1 than a strong mafia read (barring an absolute screw up). In terms of laying low...I would fully buy that if it were true, but for Zander, specifically, this is hardly the case. The guy has over a hundred posts and has been one of the most active players in the game.

 

Biggest issue is your claim of him piling on. I don't think Lenlo was really a popular wagon at all when Zander voted; he had votes from you and Sili. In a phase where it's 9 to lynch, 2 votes don't mean a whole lot. It means even less when there's five days left in the phase and neither your vote nor Sili's had much backing behind it.

The initial posting thing wasn't really a big part of my argument at all, it was just the event that made his posts stand out to me while I was catching up.

 

When I said lay low, I meant it as in he wasn't saying anything offensive that would draw attention to himself. I think he phrased his words carefully. On post 435 Pralaya posted some quotes of his that emphasize it. Note that in none of them does he say he thinks someone is town. He imo is calculating with his language, instead phrasing it as him not thinking that town or mafia (Player) would do that but he also leaves some doubt in the posts so he could possibly wiggle out of it later without looking too bad. I think it's a very clear scum tactic.

 

Lenlo may have only had 2 votes then, but he put it to three which is a third of the vote. The rest of the votes were really spread out at the time too. Not only that, but there were a couple of people who had said things about Lenlo around there that they were iffy. It's not crazy to think that Zander was hoping to start a little run.

 

OMG he's going on about my joke vote was an attempt to get people after Len...lolololollol

 

I wont answer this myself but I'll allow others to answer it....

 

What is my response in any game about people voting ALANNA...( :wub: ).(The 1 "Incident" doesnt count cause it was Shad's fault.... )

I guess I'm missing context here but I don't think the context should matter anyways. What better excuse could you have for that tactic than a joke vote? If that train takes off you can just leave it there and if it doesn't you can do exactly this. Any context behind the joke votes doesn't necessarily have to change your motives.

 

 

[Shad_]

  On 10/31/2015 at 3:29 AM, Lenlo said:

On the phone so cant check, who advocated Rack shooting Pral over Sooh?

 

I was probably the loudest voice.  Pretty sure Cory suggested it too.  I can check others in a sec.

[Shad_]

  On 10/31/2015 at 3:31 AM, Lenlo said:

Cause im curious if that list matchs up with those jumping ship over to me, when it was a real possibility that Rack could shoot Sooh.

 

Cause get this: If Sooh is scum and Rack is going to shoot them, then it is in scums best interest to lynch someone other than Rack /OR/ convince him to shoot someone else so as to save a teammate. Cause the push on me never really built until Rack announced his role.

 

Thoughts?

 

Do you think this jives with Sooh staying the course on Rack instead of joining your wagon?

[Clovdyx]

Well, there's obviously an argument to be made that people could have just showed less of an interest because they believed him, but ai don't disagree with the logic at all. Iirc Rack never suggested he would shoot pral - despite peoples suggestions to do so - so Sooh being shot could reasonably be counted on (unless someone thought Rack was fpsing it). If Sooh is mafia, killing Rack would presumably have been a bad thing

[Lenlo]

Im not sure. There are many things that could have happened. First off, I could be wrong. That is a possibility.

 

Other than that, Sooh could have wanted to stay separate. Not wanting to tie themselves to close. I really dont know, so id like other peoples thoughts on it. My main question is why the train on me suddenly began to build for no reason. Rack wasnt scum, so it wasnt a CFD to save him. I dont see why town would suddenly CFD to someone with no case against them though either, so I have to believe scum helped it happen for some reason.

[Lenlo]

This is ofc colored by my belief that Zander is hard core deep wolfing all of you though.

[Clovdyx]

Actually, I think Rack might have tipped it after Pral requested the shot? I'll check later.

[Shad_]

Action starts on p88. Don't really have the energy right now to mutiquotegasm.

[Shad_]

I can tell you from my perspective that I chose to move to a counterwagon first and foremost because I believed him.  Cory expressed the same.  I also saw a mechanical advantage to keeping him alive.  Nomi and Zander were never on him to begin with.  Sili flipflopped a bit with counter wagons but committed to Rack in the end.

 

Sili nervously bouncing his vote around a bunch when something unexpected happens is definitely not out of character for his town game, and he went for Rack in the end.  Not going to speak for Cory.  But without checking to see if I missed something important I think your theory is only applicable to the two of us.

 

Sooh effectively voted Rack.  As in, if she's scum and no one hammered and she weaseled out of it at the last second we would be policy lynching her tomorrow.

 

So you're looking at 4 scum between:

 

TMI avoiding a town wagon preemptively (Zander, Nomi)

Your theory or something along those lines (Me, Cory)

Scum waiting to see how things go down and then calculating a stance after the fact (BFG)

Scum on the wagon (everyone else)

[Shad_]

BFG shady AF if Sooh is town because she basically let the lynch go down and then said she'd have helped the counterwagon after the fact, but she was lurking in ISO land the whole time.

[Shad_]

But BFG knows she looks awful right now, so I'd like to at least see how she handles this extended night phase before I pressure her too much.

[Shad_]

BFG probably scum?  Simple matter of town telling pretty well and I don't think there can be that many deep wolves.  She's got plenty of time to show it if she's town before the next lynch DL.

[Shad_]

Lenlo, a part of why you became the counter wagon is because quite frankly I don't trust you at all.  No offensive if you're town.  I need to read you with a clean head and try to see the INNER LENLO behind what I perceive as scummy play.

[Shad_]

Tab BFG Lenlo.  Sooh?  Need to look at Hallia and Nomi again.

[Shad_]

Peeks will happen.  Night kills will happen.  We've got this unless like, Lenlo is right about Zander deepwolfing us or there are two scum between Cory/Clov/Yates.  Doubtful.

[Lenlo]

  On 10/31/2015 at 4:35 AM, Shad_ said:

Lenlo, a part of why you became the counter wagon is because quite frankly I don't trust you at all. No offensive if you're town. I need to read you with a clean head and try to see the INNER LENLO behind what I perceive as scummy play.

Any way I can help with that?

 

What have I done that is scummy? I wanna help you resolve this cause I think your town and I want your attention focused in useful places.

[Lenlo]

I guarantee you Z is deep wolfin you man.

[Lenlo]

Shad which of those theories in that post like 4 posts ago do you think is most likely?

[Shad_]

  On 10/31/2015 at 5:21 AM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 10/31/2015 at 4:35 AM, Shad_ said:

Lenlo, a part of why you became the counter wagon is because quite frankly I don't trust you at all. No offensive if you're town. I need to read you with a clean head and try to see the INNER LENLO behind what I perceive as scummy play.

Any way I can help with that?

 

What have I done that is scummy? I wanna help you resolve this cause I think your town and I want your attention focused in useful places.

 

 

Honestly, I need to do a proper ISO and not the rush job I pulled off tonight when I realized Rack was probably town.  Players I trust vouching for you with reasons would be ~great too. I know Yates did and I still need to pull that up.  I've made some comments about things that bug me here and there.  I also said why I went for your wagon:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 10/30/2015 at 8:06 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 9:09 PM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 7:53 PM, Zander said:

 

  On 10/28/2015 at 6:15 PM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 10/27/2015 at 11:12 PM, rackcitysteelers said:

Well I had some posts queued up but I lost them so oh well. But I think the push on me is stupid but not scummy. I think it was silli that was saying they were expecting me to finally say something when I got back but I pretty clearly stated in my post that I wasn't going to actually be able to catch up until later. So now I'm gonna give you some thoughts.

 

I don't really set out with a concrete strategy, but the Lenlo thing was kinda just looking for actions. I wasn't entirely happy with Lenlo's reactions to it but it wasn't terrible and I have a bigger scum read anyways.

 

I think Zander is scum. I thought his opening post felt forced but some people said it was just him so I was like whatever. Someone else pointed this out (I forget who) but he's spent a lot of time just defending and backing people up. It's a pretty easy tactic to lay low and get on some people's good side. Zander said that he had been attacking people though, but it wasn't a high risk one. He just jumped on the popular Lenlo bandwagon. His reasoning wasn't good either, Lenlo imo was pretty clearly just using a mostly gut read on that person who had barely posted so I didn't get why Zander was making a big deal about it. It felt like a weak reason to jump on a popular bandwagon. I'm gonna Vote: Zander

Sorry Z, meant for you to respond to this one.

 

This is a concern that isnt coming from me, so maybe youll actually answer it instead of dancing around it with gifs and pictures.

 

 

ok i did respond to this already.

 

 

visual aids are important though....

 

I will admit, you have been on point with your pictures/gifs. If anything, you put effort into those.

 

[v]Rack[/v]

 

He hasnt done or explained anything I had hoped he would, so im cool with this. Maybe enough votes will get him to actually talk.

 

Debated whether I wanted to encourage this or not, pulled up an ISO and decided to [v]Lenlo[/v] when I read this post.

 

 

  On 10/30/2015 at 8:07 PM, Shad_ said:

Keeps saying Rack needs to explain things but never asks him questions, Rack seems to be the only person who's sharing Lenlo's perspective on Zander and yet ???

 

  On 10/30/2015 at 8:09 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 10/27/2015 at 11:37 PM, Lenlo said:

What about my reactions didn't you like Rack? After this long I'd like more from you.

 

Also anything to say aboit everyone else?

Ok he did ask him this. Did Rack answer? Omg omg deadlines etc.

 

 

 

 

That was under pretty tight time restraints.  I'm not going to try and formulate my thoughts too much right now because I'm pretty tired and they should evolve once I've given you some more proper attention anyway.  But as to helping me resolve you in the meantime, thoughts post-flip besides Zander?  You presented one idea and I gave you my input on it.  Let's assume you're right about Zander but won't be able to convince town to lynch him tomorrow.  There are probably 4 scum.  Where do you go?

[Shad_]

  On 10/31/2015 at 5:29 AM, Lenlo said:

Shad which of those theories in that post like 4 posts ago do you think is most likely?

 

uh...  I need to sleep?

 

I think that's a very very general breakdown of how each player if scum approached the D1 lynch.  Honestly I'm looking at it right now and it seems like a pretty useless list.

[Lenlo]

Then sleep. Sorry for keepin ya up.

 

Assuming I cant get Z lynched, Corlanna, Sooh/BFG and im really not sure on the 4th.

[Shad_]

'Possible scum voted Rack or didn't vote Rack because they wanted to avoid being on a town lynch or bailed because they wanted to avoid being on a PR lynch or sat on their butts and did nothing.'  I might as well have just quoted the vote count.

[Shad_]

I'm going to sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

[Cory Caboose]

Sleep for

THebweak