Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[Nolder]

-

[Nolder]

Oh boy I love when DM eats my post and then posts it like 5 times it's so awesome.

[Nolder]

Nyn I think you're seeing things that aren't there on me. When you're rereading someone it can be easy to fall into a trap of thinking they talk about something a lot when it's not the case. Apparently I stated that Shad was town more than a few times. Well ok? You're reading almost 120 pages worth of gameplay condensed. I stated my reads on everyone every day. As my reads updated or it was relevant to a conversation I would say I think so and so is town or I'm leaning null or whatever. I can appreciate that my gameplay surrounding Crusher wasn't so great. I didn't understand the trap Kiv was running and at the time yeah I thought he was scum. I was never sure it was Crusher until he flipped scum. Ok so that's all on me. But attacking me because I said Shad was town too many times for your liking is just bizarre. As for the rest of that stuff...ehh some of it's fair and some of it's silly. I doubt you want to argue about it this late in the game so I'll leave it be.

[Nolder]

It also bemuses me that Nolder says that voting patterns are......

You've really failed to grasp what I meant when I said that.

 

Voting patterns are bad for clearing people. They ARE good for catching scum.

 

Never clear someone because of how they voted because eventually you'll end up getting burned.

[Nolder]

 

Kivam are you doing the thing?

 

 

Nolder, this post interests me.  Explain please.

 

It was meaningless. I was testing Kivam, seeing if he would play along or not to get a better read.

In my mind a mafia would challenge that kind of post and say "what thing?! no I'm not doing anything!" or somesuch because if they play along and don't know the game it could come back to bite them. A townie on the other hand would want to make scum nervous or act like they know more then they do and would play along. Kiv playing along was a small point in his favor.

[Nynaeve]

Nyn I think you're seeing things that aren't there on me. When you're rereading someone it can be easy to fall into a trap of thinking they talk about something a lot when it's not the case. Apparently I stated that Shad was town more than a few times. Well ok? You're reading almost 120 pages worth of gameplay condensed. I stated my reads on everyone every day. As my reads updated or it was relevant to a conversation I would say I think so and so is town or I'm leaning null or whatever. I can appreciate that my gameplay surrounding Crusher wasn't so great. I didn't understand the trap Kiv was running and at the time yeah I thought he was scum. I was never sure it was Crusher until he flipped scum. Ok so that's all on me. But attacking me because I said Shad was town too many times for your liking is just bizarre. As for the rest of that stuff...ehh some of it's fair and some of it's silly. I doubt you want to argue about it this late in the game so I'll leave it be.

I'm not attacking you for the Shad thing. I just thought it was interesting and pointed it out while admitting that it was less indicative.

 

My issue with it, though is that I don't see the progression there. You just said... town... town... so town... obvious town. It bugs me. Because I think Shad's content was questionable at times but you didn't really waver on it. I feel kinda like you slapped him with a town read... and that was that.

 

I was quite obviously scum reading him, but I did hesitate on occasions when he made good points. But then more bad ones came up and I went back to my initial interpretation.

 

Your take on him looks sort of static. Past day 1 gut v/v feel you don't really add why his following content (beyond his interactions with Calder) makes him town. You just keep saying he's town.

 

But again, this is prolly the lesser point about you. Your weird defense of Crusher is key imo. And your push on Thane looks bad too imo.

 

Your vote on Crusher came after he gave up. Your vote on Halli came after AJ got NKed, making her look bad. You tried to push Kiv when he was leading a lynch on Crusher. You tried to push Thane who we now know is town.

 

So basically... I think you could very well be the third scum.

[Nynaeve]

Gonna try to ISO Laine and Kivam if I can. Feeling a little light headed so maybe I'll do a more "short and to the point" ISOs. Be back later.

[Kivam]

FWIW, i also had shad as solid town by the end of D1. It's why he was my fakepeek of choice for D2.

 

But Nolder was unusually emphatic about it unusually early.

 

BTW, Nolder, I'm a bit curious that you haven't reacted to my self-vote the way you reacted to the self-vote in JNRagnarok, when you were town (it was the Ape's, right? Could go back and check but it doesn't really matter who). Can you explain why?

[Nynaeve]

 

 

It also bemuses me that Nolder says that voting patterns are......

You've really failed to grasp what I meant when I said that.

 

Voting patterns are bad for clearing people. They ARE good for catching scum.

 

Never clear someone because of how they voted because eventually you'll end up getting burned.

FYI yeah, I still don't understand it. You basically say that wagonomics can be misleading. I dont understand why you think you shouldn't clear someone with them but it's okay to push someone for them.

 

As it were I think wagonomics can be useful but they should never be the only reason to FoS/Clear someone. Which is what I said to Clov irt you.

[Nolder]

I don't think I ever said obvious town when referring to Shad did I? My read on Shad comes mostly from experience and gut. Remember I originally called Shad/Calder town on town violence and only voted Calder after he started trolling the game. Yes my content on Shad was static. I'd written him off as town and nothing he said after bothered me. I mean maybe that's sloppy play but when I write someone off as town I don't usually pay much attention to them anymore because I'm trying to hunt the mafia.

 

Fair enough on Crusher I can't really argue with that. All I can tell you is I was confused about Kiv's trap thing at the time which is what prompted me to tie the trains. I don't like being confused with bad reads so I wanted something better. And honestly I think it worked. Since EOD1 I feel like my gameplay improved dramatically in this game and honestly whether I'm lynched or we even end up losing I'm happy with how I've played this game. Not my best game ever but pretty solid still imo.

 

I don't know what to tell you about Thane. I STILL feel like he should be the last mafia. His gameplay this game has been pretty bad. I don't want to make him feel bad or pick a fight but if circumstances were different he would be my pick for lynch still. That's all there is to that. 

 

re: Hallia

IIRC I was voting her and then we switched to Calder. It had nothing to do with AJ. If Calder had kept his cool Hallia would have been lynched before AJ died.

[Nolder]

FWIW, i also had shad as solid town by the end of D1. It's why he was my fakepeek of choice for D2.

 

But Nolder was unusually emphatic about it unusually early.

 

BTW, Nolder, I'm a bit curious that you haven't reacted to my self-vote the way you reacted to the self-vote in JNRagnarok, when you were town (it was the Ape's, right? Could go back and check but it doesn't really matter who). Can you explain why?

I don't remember you self voting?

 

Even if you did though I will say that while it's still AtE I don't think self voting has the same impact in a deadline game.

Idk. Doesn't matter much since I'm not inclined to trust you right now anyway. If you want to be lynched first then step up I guess.

[Nynaeve]

FWIW, i also had shad as solid town by the end of D1. It's why he was my fakepeek of choice for D2.

 

But Nolder was unusually emphatic about it unusually early.

 

That's fair. I don't have much of experience with Shad so maybe that's part of why I've struggled.

 

But after seeing both Crusher and Halli checking it off as v/v, I'm feeling a little wary about anyone that seems to have written it off as v/v too easily (seeing as my theory that they were staying away cause one of shad/calder was scum was incorrect).

 

I'll have to check out Laine and you irt this as well cause I don't remember off the top of my head.

[Nolder]

 

 

It also bemuses me that Nolder says that voting patterns are......

You've really failed to grasp what I meant when I said that.

 

Voting patterns are bad for clearing people. They ARE good for catching scum.

 

Never clear someone because of how they voted because eventually you'll end up getting burned.

FYI yeah, I still don't understand it. You basically say that wagonomics can be misleading. I dont understand why you think you shouldn't clear someone with them but it's okay to push someone for them.

 

As it were I think wagonomics can be useful but they should never be the only reason to FoS/Clear someone. Which is what I said to Clov irt you.

 

I don't agree on FoS but I agree it shouldn't be the reason to clear someone.

I'm not sure if I can articulate what I'm thinking about not using voting patterns to clear someone besides saying you could be wrong.

You could also be wrong when suspecting someone of being mafia though from their voting patterns so that doesn't work.

 

Ummmm maybe it's because it's better to mislynch someone you suspect of being mafia than it is to accidentally clear mafia as town. A mislynch isn't that big of a deal (usually) but a miscleared mafia can ride until endgame and that's much more harmful to town.

 

Does that make sense?

[Kivam]

 

FWIW, i also had shad as solid town by the end of D1. It's why he was my fakepeek of choice for D2.

 

But Nolder was unusually emphatic about it unusually early.

That's fair. I don't have much of experience with Shad so maybe that's part of why I've struggled.

 

But after seeing both Crusher and Halli checking it off as v/v, I'm feeling a little wary about anyone that seems to have written it off as v/v too easily (seeing as my theory that they were staying away cause one of shad/calder was scum was incorrect).

 

I'll have to check out Laine and you irt this as well cause I don't remember off the top of my head.

 

 

I called it v/v as well, before changing my mind on Calder at EoD1 based on his reactions to the Crusher push. If you go back and look, you can see the progression pretty clearly in my posts D1, IIRC  (by end of day, I was giving Calder the "if I hadn't already read you as town, XYZ would look really bad" soft FoS in case I got killed ... still townreading him on the surface but making sure anyone doing a reread with post flip KivTown eyes saw what I was seeing.  Turned out I survived and he was town anyway, so ... wasted effort, I guess)

[Zander?]

Thane and Shad we needa have a chat.

[Kivam]

 

FWIW, i also had shad as solid town by the end of D1. It's why he was my fakepeek of choice for D2.

 

But Nolder was unusually emphatic about it unusually early.

That's fair. I don't have much of experience with Shad so maybe that's part of why I've struggled.

 

But after seeing both Crusher and Halli checking it off as v/v, I'm feeling a little wary about anyone that seems to have written it off as v/v too easily (seeing as my theory that they were staying away cause one of shad/calder was scum was incorrect).

 

I'll have to check out Laine and you irt this as well cause I don't remember off the top of my head.

 

Just pointing out this means you've gone from "scum was staying away because one was a wolf" to "scum was staying away because it was v/v", which isn't really progression of your read ("scum will be staying away from shad/calder") based on new information so much as rejustification for a completely different and directly opposite reason.  Given that you were involved, if you actually are scum it's good cover to keep the "scum stayed away" thought process alive.

 

On the other hand, if you're town and none of me, Laine, or Nolder were involved in Shad/Calder - I don't recall about Laine - then it's trivially obvious ... so this is null to me.

[Kivam]

Thane and Shad we needa have a chat.

YES.  I've been saying this for a day now

[Nynaeve]

 

 

FWIW, i also had shad as solid town by the end of D1. It's why he was my fakepeek of choice for D2.

 

But Nolder was unusually emphatic about it unusually early.

That's fair. I don't have much of experience with Shad so maybe that's part of why I've struggled.

 

But after seeing both Crusher and Halli checking it off as v/v, I'm feeling a little wary about anyone that seems to have written it off as v/v too easily (seeing as my theory that they were staying away cause one of shad/calder was scum was incorrect).

 

I'll have to check out Laine and you irt this as well cause I don't remember off the top of my head.

 

Just pointing out this means you've gone from "scum was staying away because one was a wolf" to "scum was staying away because it was v/v", which isn't really progression of your read ("scum will be staying away from shad/calder") based on new information so much as rejustification for a completely different and directly opposite reason.  Given that you were involved, if you actually are scum it's good cover to keep the "scum stayed away" thought process alive.

 

On the other hand, if you're town and none of me, Laine, or Nolder were involved in Shad/Calder - I don't recall about Laine - then it's trivially obvious ... so this is null to me.

 

 

After seeing two confirmed scum avoiding that situation... then I think it's fairly obvious I was wrong. I still don't understand why they would stay away from it... maybe they were signaling each other on thread to stay away from it to let town push one of them? I don't know. But there's no denying that they were staying away from it.

 

As scum, I would have taken advantage of the situation. But Crusher and Hallia are not me so   *shrugs*

[Zander?]

 

 

 

FWIW, i also had shad as solid town by the end of D1. It's why he was my fakepeek of choice for D2.

 

But Nolder was unusually emphatic about it unusually early.

That's fair. I don't have much of experience with Shad so maybe that's part of why I've struggled.

 

But after seeing both Crusher and Halli checking it off as v/v, I'm feeling a little wary about anyone that seems to have written it off as v/v too easily (seeing as my theory that they were staying away cause one of shad/calder was scum was incorrect).

 

I'll have to check out Laine and you irt this as well cause I don't remember off the top of my head.

 

Just pointing out this means you've gone from "scum was staying away because one was a wolf" to "scum was staying away because it was v/v", which isn't really progression of your read ("scum will be staying away from shad/calder") based on new information so much as rejustification for a completely different and directly opposite reason.  Given that you were involved, if you actually are scum it's good cover to keep the "scum stayed away" thought process alive.

 

On the other hand, if you're town and none of me, Laine, or Nolder were involved in Shad/Calder - I don't recall about Laine - then it's trivially obvious ... so this is null to me.

 

 

After seeing two confirmed scum avoiding that situation... then I think it's fairly obvious I was wrong. I still don't understand why they would stay away from it... maybe they were signaling each other on thread to stay away from it to let town push one of them? I don't know. But there's no denying that they were staying away from it.

 

As scum, I would have taken advantage of the situation. But Crusher and Hallia are not me so   *shrugs*

 

 

atp werent you reading them both scum and pushing them (shad/calder)?  maybe i not remembering that correctly but please let me know.

[Nynaeve]

I don't think I ever said obvious town when referring to Shad did I? 

 

 

Three days into the game you've had these sort of posts:

 

 

Yes I was referring to Shad as locktown.

 

 

I wonder how Calder feels about Shad now? IMO he's basically locktown.

 

 

 

I don't really get how you got to locktown at that point. I

[Nynaeve]

It was around the beginning of D2, before Calder went psycho 

[Nynaeve]

(sorry.... DM suddenly submitted the post mid typing)

[Zander?]

 

Thane and Shad we needa have a chat.

YES.  I've been saying this for a day now

 

 

 

[Nolder]

 

 

 

FWIW, i also had shad as solid town by the end of D1. It's why he was my fakepeek of choice for D2.

 

But Nolder was unusually emphatic about it unusually early.

That's fair. I don't have much of experience with Shad so maybe that's part of why I've struggled.

 

But after seeing both Crusher and Halli checking it off as v/v, I'm feeling a little wary about anyone that seems to have written it off as v/v too easily (seeing as my theory that they were staying away cause one of shad/calder was scum was incorrect).

 

I'll have to check out Laine and you irt this as well cause I don't remember off the top of my head.

 

Just pointing out this means you've gone from "scum was staying away because one was a wolf" to "scum was staying away because it was v/v", which isn't really progression of your read ("scum will be staying away from shad/calder") based on new information so much as rejustification for a completely different and directly opposite reason.  Given that you were involved, if you actually are scum it's good cover to keep the "scum stayed away" thought process alive.

 

On the other hand, if you're town and none of me, Laine, or Nolder were involved in Shad/Calder - I don't recall about Laine - then it's trivially obvious ... so this is null to me.

 

 

After seeing two confirmed scum avoiding that situation... then I think it's fairly obvious I was wrong. I still don't understand why they would stay away from it... maybe they were signaling each other on thread to stay away from it to let town push one of them? I don't know. But there's no denying that they were staying away from it.

 

As scum, I would have taken advantage of the situation. But Crusher and Hallia are not me so   *shrugs*

 

Now you're just tinfoiling to make it fit your view of the situation. If they were signaling each other on thread...where are the signals? And wouldn't that be something incredibly dangerous to do regarding something so minor?

 

It seems highly unlikely to me that mafia would have some sort of plan to avoid the Shad/Calder thing. If mafia did avoid it they did so separately on their own. It wouldn't have been a planned thing.

[Zander?]

 

I don't think I ever said obvious town when referring to Shad did I? 

 

 

Three days into the game you've had these sort of posts:

 

 

Yes I was referring to Shad as locktown.

 

 

I wonder how Calder feels about Shad now? IMO he's basically locktown.

 

 

 

I don't really get how you got to locktown at that point. I

 

 

fwiw this post makes me like Nolder less now...