Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[The Crusher]

 

And this is scummy, too.  I'm watching the Shad/Calder brouhaha and seeing mild inklings that could potentially support a case on Shad, but not enough to make me want to drive it forward at the moment.  That seems to be most of the game's read as well, given that you three have been the only ones discussing it.  Yet you saw enough to dive in face first, claws extended.  That reads - to me - as potentially opportunistic scum looking to exploit a townie mistake (a read contingent, obviously, on Shad being town, which we don't know yet). 

 

Fair enough to say that's a misread, but a misrep?  That's a highly defensive OMGUS for a single piece of suspicion thrown your way. 

 

It's a misrep in my eyes because it's visibly not true. I've pointed out several times what I did not like. I questioned him accordingly. I'm not taking advantage of anything. I'm sharing my concerns and digging deeper. It's what I do. Pointing it out as if it's irregular is bogus. 

 

To be fair it did look a little bit like you ganged up on him.  Calder was already working the kid into a frenzy.  Typical Nyn town is usually more investigative than antagonistic. Tough for me because don;t have meta on either Calder or Chad.  Might be what happens Chad. 

[Kivam]

Kiv, what about Clov's placement? I don't think you explained that.

 

You're right, I didn't.  He was my peek today, so if I die later and flip seer, you should trust that claim.  On the other hand, I may be faking my peek, and scum may take the fact that my peek is in my scum reads as a reason to think I'm not actually the seer.  If so, I avoid a NK. (In fact, I can tell you now that if I am the seer and until I hardclaim, I will be willing to go so far as to vote for the lynch of a claimed peek in order to avoid being identified; keeping me alive is worth more than 1 dead vanilla townie)  On the other hand, now that I've made that point, maybe they think I'm the seer hoping to avoid a NK, and kill me ... which if I'm a vanilla townie is +ev for town.  But maybe they see this and think I'm trying to draw a kill, mark me down as vanilla town, and leave me alive.

 

In other words ...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6TQ7ljcsjk

 

[Nynaeve]

Honestly at this point I kinda hate your read list. But you have elaborated on the reasons, which is fair enough. I don't necessarily agree with your impressions, but that's hardly the point. It'll do for now. I really don't appreciate how you've tried to sort of mute me out. Though it could be my general annoyance at it, because I've tried to stay current and be around for interaction... and I think it's ****ing rude to dismiss me that way, but w/e. Plenty of other players to talk to.

[Nynaeve]

To be fair it did look a little bit like you ganged up on him.  Calder was already working the kid into a frenzy.  Typical Nyn town is usually more investigative than antagonistic. Tough for me because don;t have meta on either Calder or Chad.  Might be what happens Chad. 

 

I don't feel like I was being antagonistic. I insert some snark, occasionally, but that's about it. He was pushing it with the nonsense and giving me a headache. So, no regrets there *shrugs*

 

I feel very confident with where my vote is. He's scum.

[Kivam]

 

And this is scummy, too.  I'm watching the Shad/Calder brouhaha and seeing mild inklings that could potentially support a case on Shad, but not enough to make me want to drive it forward at the moment.  That seems to be most of the game's read as well, given that you three have been the only ones discussing it.  Yet you saw enough to dive in face first, claws extended.  That reads - to me - as potentially opportunistic scum looking to exploit a townie mistake (a read contingent, obviously, on Shad being town, which we don't know yet). 

 

Fair enough to say that's a misread, but a misrep?  That's a highly defensive OMGUS for a single piece of suspicion thrown your way. 

 

It's a misrep in my eyes because it's visibly not true. I've pointed out several times what I did not like. I questioned him accordingly. I'm not taking advantage of anything. I'm sharing my concerns and digging deeper. It's what I do. Pointing it out as if it's irregular is bogus. 

 

 

Not sure why think any of that is definitionally not opportunistic

 

[Calder]

Plenty of posts. Not many people actually trying to do much.

[Kivam]

Honestly at this point I kinda hate your read list. But you have elaborated on the reasons, which is fair enough. I don't necessarily agree with your impressions, but that's hardly the point. It'll do for now. I really don't appreciate how you've tried to sort of mute me out. Though it could be my general annoyance at it, because I've tried to stay current and be around for interaction... and I think it's ****ing rude to dismiss me that way, but w/e. Plenty of other players to talk to.

??

[Kivam]

When I say misrep, it's not a FoS btw. When I FoS, I say FoS.

 

Misrep means you're misrepresnting what I've been doing. Whether you're misunderstanding it or twisting it on purpose remains to be seen. But my reaction is how I always react when someone FoSes me for dumb crap. So make of it what you will.

 

[Calder]

 

 

(Your jump-on, on the other hand, looks a bit opportunistic)

 

 

Fair enough for your explanations for your other reads. As far as the above, that's BS. You're making it sound like I stood behind Calder and egged him on to manipulate the situation. You're misrepping me. I've explained my take, I've been as transparent as I can about it, I interacted with Shad, I've asked him questions, and in a nutshell, i did not like his responses. He's been pretty much throwing around shitty arguments to see what sticks. None of it does, imo. I don't think this is v/v at all.

 

All of this deal happened while I was sleeping, so yes, I wasn't the first one to point out the my thoughts on the matter. But that's irrelevant. I've made my points very clear and there was nothing opportunistic about it.

 

And this is scummy, too.  I'm watching the Shad/Calder brouhaha and seeing mild inklings that could potentially support a case on Shad, but not enough to make me want to drive it forward at the moment.  That seems to be most of the game's read as well, given that you three have been the only ones discussing it.  Yet you saw enough to dive in face first, claws extended.  That reads - to me - as potentially opportunistic scum looking to exploit a townie mistake (a read contingent, obviously, on Shad being town, which we don't know yet). 

 

Fair enough to say that's a misread, but a misrep?  That's a highly defensive OMGUS for a single piece of suspicion thrown your way.

I disagree with the assertion that most of the game doesnt agree with my argument with Shad. The truth is that this thread has mostly displayed silence surrounding and less than expected participation since it began from those outside the initial argument. It could be that other people are not inspired as you say by it, but why not say that. Instead we have a lot of silence. I am concerned the remaining scum are staying out for now hoping this blows over.

[Nynaeve]

Not sure why think any of that is definitionally not opportunistic

 

Because I feel that I've been legitimately scumhunting and making good observations.....and all you gotta say is.... oh that looks opportunistic. There's nothing about Shad's content so far that makes him look even slightly town imo. So I don't understand how you'd get that impression or why you think this is a v/v situation. But, w/e. 

[Kivam]

Serious question @Nyn ... where is the emo BS coming from?  I asked for content from other people, because right now there are 4-5 people providing content, and the rest of the game is slanking.  That doesn't mean I want you to shut up.  It means I want other people to get louder.

[Nynaeve]

 

Honestly at this point I kinda hate your read list. But you have elaborated on the reasons, which is fair enough. I don't necessarily agree with your impressions, but that's hardly the point. It'll do for now. I really don't appreciate how you've tried to sort of mute me out. Though it could be my general annoyance at it, because I've tried to stay current and be around for interaction... and I think it's ****ing rude to dismiss me that way, but w/e. Plenty of other players to talk to.

??

 

 

I was around talking..... and you were like.... can we hear from someone else.

 

On one hand, sure, I agree with you that that are way too many players being quiet right now and that should change asap. On the other it was very dismissive cause it sounded like you pretty much wanted me to shut up.

[Nynaeve]

Serious question @Nyn ... where is the emo BS coming from?  I asked for content from other people, because right now there are 4-5 people providing content, and the rest of the game is slanking.  That doesn't mean I want you to shut up.  It means I want other people to get louder.

 

Fine

[Calder]

(Sits on couch, pulls out notepad, and pen)

 

Kivam how does it make you feel when Nyn asserts that your dismissive of her?

[Kivam]

 

 

 

(Your jump-on, on the other hand, looks a bit opportunistic)

 

Fair enough for your explanations for your other reads. As far as the above, that's BS. You're making it sound like I stood behind Calder and egged him on to manipulate the situation. You're misrepping me. I've explained my take, I've been as transparent as I can about it, I interacted with Shad, I've asked him questions, and in a nutshell, i did not like his responses. He's been pretty much throwing around shitty arguments to see what sticks. None of it does, imo. I don't think this is v/v at all.

 

All of this deal happened while I was sleeping, so yes, I wasn't the first one to point out the my thoughts on the matter. But that's irrelevant. I've made my points very clear and there was nothing opportunistic about it.

 

And this is scummy, too.  I'm watching the Shad/Calder brouhaha and seeing mild inklings that could potentially support a case on Shad, but not enough to make me want to drive it forward at the moment.  That seems to be most of the game's read as well, given that you three have been the only ones discussing it.  Yet you saw enough to dive in face first, claws extended.  That reads - to me - as potentially opportunistic scum looking to exploit a townie mistake (a read contingent, obviously, on Shad being town, which we don't know yet). 

 

Fair enough to say that's a misread, but a misrep?  That's a highly defensive OMGUS for a single piece of suspicion thrown your way.

I disagree with the assertion that most of the game doesnt agree with my argument with Shad. The truth is that this thread has mostly displayed silence surrounding and less than expected participation since it began from those outside the initial argument. It could be that other people are not inspired as you say by it, but why not say that. Instead we have a lot of silence. I am concerned the remaining scum are staying out for now hoping this blows over.

 

 

I think that's the only conceivable explanation, short of massive town slanking (in which case we deserve to lose).  I mean sure, one of you or Shad could be scum, and 2 other scum players could be staying quiet on the issue in hopes that it blows over.  But that still leaves 9 other players who aren't particularly moved enough by your argument (in either direction) to spur action.  Even assuming you, Shad, and Nyn are all town, that leaves 7 townies not feeling the argument either way (or, again, just slanking).  By definition, and subject to correction if, say, Hally, Zander, Dice, and Laine suddenly pile in to say "wow, great argument, [vote: shad]," most of the game doesn't agree with your argument with Shad.

 

Clov, you've played with Calder before.  Is this sort of obtuseness usual for him?

[Kivam]

(Sits on couch, pulls out notepad, and pen)

 

Kivam how does it make you feel when Nyn asserts that your dismissive of her?

 

Understood?

[Shad_]

Could either of you please explain how posts at Calder "shitty" rather than pretty spot on?

[Kivam]

 

Serious question @Nyn ... where is the emo BS coming from?  I asked for content from other people, because right now there are 4-5 people providing content, and the rest of the game is slanking.  That doesn't mean I want you to shut up.  It means I want other people to get louder.

 

Fine

 

 

Glad we got that out of the way.  Again, you know my game.  I don't want anyone shutting up, and I don't dismiss anyone (except Lizzie).

[Calder]

 

 

 

 

(Your jump-on, on the other hand, looks a bit opportunistic)

 

 

Fair enough for your explanations for your other reads. As far as the above, that's BS. You're making it sound like I stood behind Calder and egged him on to manipulate the situation. You're misrepping me. I've explained my take, I've been as transparent as I can about it, I interacted with Shad, I've asked him questions, and in a nutshell, i did not like his responses. He's been pretty much throwing around shitty arguments to see what sticks. None of it does, imo. I don't think this is v/v at all.

 

All of this deal happened while I was sleeping, so yes, I wasn't the first one to point out the my thoughts on the matter. But that's irrelevant. I've made my points very clear and there was nothing opportunistic about it.

 

And this is scummy, too.  I'm watching the Shad/Calder brouhaha and seeing mild inklings that could potentially support a case on Shad, but not enough to make me want to drive it forward at the moment.  That seems to be most of the game's read as well, given that you three have been the only ones discussing it.  Yet you saw enough to dive in face first, claws extended.  That reads - to me - as potentially opportunistic scum looking to exploit a townie mistake (a read contingent, obviously, on Shad being town, which we don't know yet). 

 

Fair enough to say that's a misread, but a misrep?  That's a highly defensive OMGUS for a single piece of suspicion thrown your way.

I disagree with the assertion that most of the game doesnt agree with my argument with Shad. The truth is that this thread has mostly displayed silence surrounding and less than expected participation since it began from those outside the initial argument. It could be that other people are not inspired as you say by it, but why not say that. Instead we have a lot of silence. I am concerned the remaining scum are staying out for now hoping this blows over.

 

I think that's the only conceivable explanation, short of massive town slanking (in which case we deserve to lose).  I mean sure, one of you or Shad could be scum, and 2 other scum players could be staying quiet on the issue in hopes that it blows over.  But that still leaves 9 other players who aren't particularly moved enough by your argument (in either direction) to spur action.  Even assuming you, Shad, and Nyn are all town, that leaves 7 townies not feeling the argument either way (or, again, just slanking).  By definition, and subject to correction if, say, Hally, Zander, Dice, and Laine suddenly pile in to say "wow, great argument, [vote: shad]," most of the game doesn't agree with your argument with Shad.

 

Clov, you've played with Calder before.  Is this sort of obtuseness usual for him?

Don't see how I am being "obtuse" for stating the truth that your assuming the stances of people who are straight up not participating. If they were active and ignoring it then its one thing. They arent so we dont even know their stances. I am waiting to hear from them, while you are making assumptions on their stances.

[Kivam]

Think I may have caught something on reread

 

 

Not sure why think any of that is definitionally not opportunistic

 

Because I feel that I've been legitimately scumhunting and making good observations.....and all you gotta say is.... oh that looks opportunistic. There's nothing about Shad's content so far that makes him look even slightly town imo. So I don't understand how you'd get that impression or why you think this is a v/v situation. But, w/e. 

 

 

[unvote] [v]Nyn[/v]

 

Nyn, the red is verbiage that it doesn't make any sense for any townie to use under any circumstances, ever. A townie doesn't "feel that" they've been legitimately scumhunting, they simply do it ... and say so straight out.

 

Reading back and seeing this again, this looks like the "wrongly fingered scum's" lament ["how dare townie scumread me for doing ABC; yeah, I am scum, but that's exactly what I'd do as town, so they're wrong!"]. 

[Clovdyx]

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

First of all, shame on you all for not even acknowledging a WWSD lynch on Nolder (in case anyone is interested, that stands for "What would Swag do?", which is a reference nobody but IR is going to get).  Second, this vote is not a joke.  I won't pretend to be particularly good at understanding Hallia - she's basically the exact opposite person I am - but what I do know is that she's not afraid to throw opinions out there with a reasonable amount of conviction to them.  And she'll back them up.

 

 

Morrrrrning

Catching up I like the whole Calder, Shad, Clov interaction. I dunno how to feel about Laine.

Dislike Dice so far. Null on Zander.

 

 

I don't have any real issue with the comment about Dice.  I haven't noticed him enough to make an opinion of him, myself, so that's whatever to me.  The null on Zander and Laine are kind of strange to me.  There are half a dozen players she didn't mention, why did she mention those two, specifically?  

 

But what I hate about this post is her stance on Calder/Shad/me.  "I like it" means literally nothing towards game solving.  The most obvious answer would be that she thinks we all sound like likely town in it, but I don't see HOW a townie reaches that conclusion.  Don't get me wrong - both Shad and Calder COULD both be town, but I have a hard time thinking anybody without TMI looks at that objectively and concludes them being on the same side is the likeliest scenario.

[Kivam]

 

 

 

And this is scummy, too.  I'm watching the Shad/Calder brouhaha and seeing mild inklings that could potentially support a case on Shad, but not enough to make me want to drive it forward at the moment.  That seems to be most of the game's read as well, given that you three have been the only ones discussing it.  Yet you saw enough to dive in face first, claws extended.  That reads - to me - as potentially opportunistic scum looking to exploit a townie mistake (a read contingent, obviously, on Shad being town, which we don't know yet). 

 

Fair enough to say that's a misread, but a misrep?  That's a highly defensive OMGUS for a single piece of suspicion thrown your way.

I disagree with the assertion that most of the game doesnt agree with my argument with Shad. The truth is that this thread has mostly displayed silence surrounding and less than expected participation since it began from those outside the initial argument. It could be that other people are not inspired as you say by it, but why not say that. Instead we have a lot of silence. I am concerned the remaining scum are staying out for now hoping this blows over.

 

 

I think that's the only conceivable explanation, short of massive town slanking (in which case we deserve to lose).  I mean sure, one of you or Shad could be scum, and 2 other scum players could be staying quiet on the issue in hopes that it blows over.  But that still leaves 9 other players who aren't particularly moved enough by your argument (in either direction) to spur action.  Even assuming you, Shad, and Nyn are all town, that leaves 7 townies not feeling the argument either way (or, again, just slanking).  By definition, and subject to correction if, say, Hally, Zander, Dice, and Laine suddenly pile in to say "wow, great argument, [vote: shad]," most of the game doesn't agree with your argument with Shad.

 

Clov, you've played with Calder before.  Is this sort of obtuseness usual for him?

 

Don't see how I am being "obtuse" for stating the truth that your assuming the stances of people who are straight up not participating. If they were active and ignoring it then its one thing. They arent so we dont even know their stances. I am waiting to hear from them, while you are making assumptions on their stances.

 

 

Note the bold red in the original post.  I'm not assuming anything.  I'm drawing conclusions from the fact that nobody other than Nyn has +1d your view, while leaving open the possibility that they may later do so and prove my conclusion wrong.  Don't see what basis you have to disagree.

[Nynaeve]

[unvote] [v]Nyn[/v]

 

Nyn, the red is verbiage that it doesn't make any sense for any townie to use under any circumstances, ever. A townie doesn't "feel that" they've been legitimately scumhunting, they simply do it ... and say so straight out.

 

Reading back and seeing this again, this looks like the "wrongly fingered scum's" lament ["how dare townie scumread me for doing ABC; yeah, I am scum, but that's exactly what I'd do as town, so they're wrong!"]. 

 

 

You are either playing a really poor town game...... or you're scum. I really hope you're scum, for what it's worth.

[Nynaeve]

I FEEL THAT I'VE BEEN SCUMHUNTING. THIS CAN BE SAID BY A TOWNIE BECAUSE I'M A TOWNIE AND I'M SAYING IT. YOUR THICK RULES OF WHAT A TOWNIE WOULD OR WOULDN'T SAY ARE PURE BS.

 

Go ahead and vote me. You're full of it.

[Nynaeve]

Again... I really hope you're scum. If you're town.... play better.