Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[Kivam]

 

 

Though I have to say.... Kiv, considering how low you think the probability of me being scum is... you sure seem to be talking a lot about it.

I think it's the only way we lose the game. Low probability, but high risk. And since i wouldn't go there to F3, if i want comments from other townies on it i can't wait until they're dead before bringing it up. I'm in full wisdom of crowds mode atp, in case you didn't notice :)

 

 

Why though? That part I'm fuzzy on. If you end up on F3 with me and Zander.... and with you saying you'd never lynch Zander (me neither, ftr).... how would Thane/Shad's opinion matter?

 

 

Not to me.  I know I'm not scum, and between you and Zander, you're the choice.  But in that situation, we end up voting each other and Zander makes the call.  So it's better for him if he has opinions he can trust

 

[Kivam]

fair enough Shad. I think we all (except Laine) agree about the way to follow.

agreed

[Nynaeve]

Not to me.  I know I'm not scum, and between you and Zander, you're the choice.  But in that situation, we end up voting each other and Zander makes the call.  So it's better for him if he has opinions he can trust

 

That's fair. Though I'd be feeling better about it if it was Zander sorting this out with them, rather than you.

[Kivam]

Kiv are you doing anything special for Rosh Ashana?

I daven shacharit at our naitz hachama minyan, and my mother and mother-in-law are coming. You?

[Kivam]

 

 

 

 

I hope so to. But if I am going to lose, it's the least embarrassing way to do it, if that makes sense.

It does and it doesn't. It does, because you're sure of your read. It doesn't because I've been pointing out all the ways she could be scum (ways I am picking up because I know I'm town and therefore know it's a possibility) and you're refusing to go back and reassess with fresh eyes to see for yourself if they fit. (It's also why I'm asking Nolder or Laine to chime in; if it isn't only coming from me then you'll know for 100% certain it's something a townie can see and therefore worth looking at). So if it turns out Nyn is the last scum (and again, I don't think she is, so I think this is all moot), you'll be embarrassed about not putting in that work.

 

IOW:

 

Go back, do the work, conclude Nyn is town, get it right = hooray, town wins, nothing to be ashamed of!

Go back, do the work, conclude townNyn is a potential scum, misclear someone else and town loses = damn, but still nothing to be ashamed of.

Ignore it, don't do the work, Nyn is town = yay town win, nothing to be ashamed of.

Ignore it, don't do the work, Nyn is scum and your read gets sheeped to a town loss = damn, and something to be ashamed of.

 

JMO, but only way to get embarrassed in this game, in either alignment, is to not put in the work

Problem is I'm dead in 4 hours. I was mid-way through a Laine ISO but tbh she's dying no matter what. I could just post what I've got on her and spend what time I can put in between now and EoD on Nyn. Fair?

YES

[Nynaeve]

 

Kiv are you doing anything special for Rosh Ashana?

I daven shacharit at our naitz hachama minyan, and my mother and mother-in-law are coming. You?

 

 

My siblings are coming over so I guess we're gonna have some family time with the parents.... some apples and honey... wine.... fancy dinner.  Not planning on going out, though, cause Eilat gets pretty gorss in holidays with all the tourists. 

[Shad_]

Course of events here for future reference, had to drop out a lot of quotes for it to fit but this is the gist of it. Did town!Kivam lay a trap and Crusher fell into it?  Possibly.  I don't want to discredit Kivam's move here if he's town.  But who actually calls it out?  Clov.  Then Nyn.  Kiv switches gears to Crusher after that.  Town!Kivam might have been waiting for more reactions.  Or scum!Kivam might have seen his team mate do something stupid and gave it just a liiiittle bit of time to see if it went unnoticed before he switched into full bus mode.  It's not something to worry about now.  It might be worth remembering at F3.

 

Think I may have caught something on reread
 

Because I feel that I've been legitimately scumhunting and making good observations.....and all you gotta say is.... oh that looks opportunistic. There's nothing about Shad's content so far that makes him look even slightly town imo. So I don't understand how you'd get that impression or why you think this is a v/v situation. But, w/e.

 
[unvote] [v]Nyn[/v]
 
Nyn, the red is verbiage that it doesn't make any sense for any townie to use under any circumstances, ever. A townie doesn't "feel that" they've been legitimately scumhunting, they simply do it ... and say so straight out.
 
Reading back and seeing this again, this looks like the "wrongly fingered scum's" lament ["how dare townie scumread me for doing ABC; yeah, I am scum, but that's exactly what I'd do as town, so they're wrong!"].

 

 
 

You are either playing a really poor town game...... or you're scum. I really hope you're scum, for what it's worth.

 
 

I FEEL THAT I'VE BEEN SCUMHUNTING. THIS CAN BE SAID BY A TOWNIE BECAUSE I'M A TOWNIE AND I'M SAYING IT. YOUR THICK RULES OF WHAT A TOWNIE WOULD OR WOULDN'T SAY ARE PURE BS.
 
Go ahead and vote me. You're full of it.

 
 

Again... I really hope you're scum. If you're town.... play better.

 
 

Like I love how I'm busting my ass..... you use a ****ing dumb reason to vote me... you don't really address anything I said about Shad, really. Just slap a label on it saying it seems opportunistic and that you have an inkling feeling that it's V/V situation and I'm a scum trying to take advantage. When there's also a very real possibility that I saw things I did not like and I'm leaning on him... which is, again, something very typical for my playstyle.
 
But sure, keep twisting it about. I bet it'll be an awesome fit to get me mislynched in a game. Unfortunately I signed up with a very short fuse. You managed to rile me up. Grats.

 
 

Does Batmanning the shit out of this game count?  That is a nice little pick up that not even sure I would notice if you didn't point it out.  What I did notice was the pressure she added to the Calder/ Chad thing that did not seem like scum hunting.  Again less inquisitive that I associate with town Nyn and more antagonistic that I don't. 
 
vote nyn

 
 

Angrily doubling down rather than explaining is not a townie play.  Also fits in your scum view of your own meta as expressed in usual suspects ("can't back off or they'll call it out of character") so I'm not marking it down as TWTBAW, either

 
 

I'm Ared Mosinel, VT. Go ahead and lynch.

 
 

Better than wasting my time on bothering with this game, only to be told that I'm taking an advantage of the situation.

 
 

Shad goes quiet in the meanwhile.... because why not?  Best best? Scum is between Shad/ Alanna/ Kivam/ Crusher

 
 

I don't care what you think. Get enough people to vote me, and I'll hammer myself.

 

@Crusher 

You know how I know you're scum?

 
@Kivam 

You are taking a null tell and making it a scum tell?  Nice. glgl

 
 

I'm pleased with making the crap float.

 
 

This just makes me feel better with my vote, btw. There's no way scum wouldn't have promoted Sha'd train if he were town, considering all the heat he had on him.

 
 

Shad/ Crusher/ Alanna?
 
 
I think Kivam might just be really bad this game.

 
 

Like... really really REALLY bad

 
 

No, I'm saying if you're town, get your head out of your ass and play like it instead of whining that you're being scumread.  This rage-flail reaction to a single vote is insane for a townie, and the ATE you've been tossing all over the thread makes me want to policy lynch you even if you end up as a mislynch, so I'm pretty happy with my vote ATM

 
 

If people want an example of opportunistic, this is an opportunistic post.
 

Does Batmanning the shit out of this game count?  That is a nice little pick up that not even sure I would notice if you didn't point it out.  What I did notice was the pressure she added to the Calder/ Chad thing that did not seem like scum hunting.  Again less inquisitive that I associate with town Nyn and more antagonistic that I don't. 
 
vote nyn

 
Crusher posted earlier about coming back later with some thoughts - he's greatly underwhelmed in that regard.  He made one post about Nyn being more inquisitive than antagonistic as town (this is probably the worst meta I've ever read in my life, for the record, so I'm pretty sure he's just lying), but it came from a very neutral position on her.
 

To be fair it did look a little bit like you ganged up on him.  Calder was already working the kid into a frenzy.  Typical Nyn town is usually more investigative than antagonistic. Tough for me because don;t have meta on either Calder or Chad.  Might be what happens Chad.

 
Like...there doesn't seem to be ANY sort of aggression in that post.  Nothing that makes me think "Crusher might be scumreading Nyn".  Now he moves in and piggybacks Kivam "catch" - something I use very loosely - and points out how good it is.  So good even he [Crusher] would have overlooked it!  Combined with the fact that he didn't feel she was scumhunting (nice of Crusher to point that out earlier, when he first addressed her interaction), he decides to vote.
 
 
Okay.

 

 
 

Then policy lynch me

 
 

 

fwiw, I agree Clov.

 
About Crusher, that is.

 

 
@Clov 

Ah, I forgot, my bad.
 
Still kinda feel good about it, though. If you're right about Crusher.... I'd say he was almost eager to jump in on this. He followed up like five minutes after Kivam brought it up. If Shad is also a townie... then I would have expect scum to see how this plays out first before "picking sides". 
 
Honestly? At this point Crusher kinda looks just as bad as Shad. Would be willing to switch if people aren't sold on Shad.

 
 

In the meanwhile, Kivam is more busy with promoting policy lynching me cause I am not playing like he thinks a townie should play. Instead of taking into account what's happening around him.
 
Hey, Kiv. is that townie?  I heard you're the guy to ask.

 
 

 

Nyn basically covered this, but I wanted to point out, I really, really hated this list when I first saw it.  I'm caught up so I've seen your reasoning post, and it makes MORE sense to me, but I'm still not sure I agree with it.

 
You were meant to. It had no reasons given and had some pretty strange calls (with thought process behind them, including some that were primarily reaction fishing, but not obvious thought process). Yet I basically had to push to be pushed on it. Why is that, do you think? 
 
 

I can see Calder being town, so I don't have any issues with that.  Hallia and Dice...I don't have a problem with.  I already said my piece on Hallia, but I can see why others would have her as null.  Shad's position isn't bad.
 
But I'm not sure I've seen enough from AJ to feel anything about him, besides he's an experienced player who doesn't make awful posts.  What do you think he's contributed to the game that's been "calling out the right things"?  The only thing I remember him calling out is his approach to peeks and making a comment about Laine.
 
I don't have much experience with Nolder, so I can't back or refute your claim that mafia!Nolder is self-conscious.  I just remember him being pretty quiet in TUS, and the fact he hasn't said much so far this game makes me not feel good about him.
 
Crusher I would expect to be lower for you, given the meta you provided, and I really don't like that you're essentially giving him a base when you seemingly have reason to push him.
 
 
Having Thane and Nyn as your top two scumreads is awful though.  I was a little worried about Nyn earlier when I saw she was just doing a bunch of one-liner multiquotes, but her sinking her claws in is EXACTLY how she plays, and I don't think she's been wrong to push Shad with anything she has.  None of her points were completely wrong or blatantly made up, and she obviously has a high level of conviction.  
 
Thane...eh, I'll be honest.  He always sound scummy to me.  I have a hard time reading his posts and not automatically concluding he's scum, so I wouldn't mind suspicion of him at this point, but the strongest suspect?  Really?

re the bold - yes, those.  That's enough on D1 for me to moderately greenread him.  Doesn't mean I trust him, and his silence since then is not helpful, but for D1 he's not in my WTL
 
Re Crush ... as I said, D1 for him it's not unusual for him to be jokey and not provide much red meat (he likes to keep the red meat for himself).  I do agree with you that the latch onto my post on Nyn was opportunistic.  Nyn isn't a player who's as careful with her words as some others might be, and frankly I was expecting her to respond with something along the lines of "I meant that I felt that I was making good observations", which was the back end of that quote ("I feel that I've been legitimately scumhunting and making good observations").  In fact, I had originally bolded the full clause in her original post, read the back end and went "oh, so that's what she meant", and decided to unbold the remainder and throw the point out there anyway to see what fishies might bite.
 
Was hoping to let that play out a bit longer before unvoting, but I think it's potentially landed a whale, particularly combined with the misdescription of Nyn's meta and the fact that he suddenly had content to provide once I identified "sliding Crush" as a sign of "scum crush".
 
[unvote]
 
[v]Crusher[/v]
 
As for Thane.  Yes.  He honestly feels completely different than any game I've ever played with him, and I've played a few.  Usually he gets scumread for content, but he's being much less controversial this game.  Usually he's bouncy and gregarious, and he's much more contained this game.  He remains firmly in my WTL.

 

 

 

[Nynaeve]

Kiv, are you still voting for yourself?

[Kivam]

 

 

Though I have to say.... Kiv, considering how low you think the probability of me being scum is... you sure seem to be talking a lot about it.

1) Scum have to kill you. The best thing they could possibly do is start the doubt now while still putting you off for F3.

 

2) Town want to win and might be legitimately concerned about landing in F3 with you and Zander.

 

Not every scum is going to do 1. Not every town is going to do 2. Kiv would do either imo.

Pretty much

[Kivam]

Kiv, are you still voting for yourself?

Yes. Promised i wouldn't move it until shad, Thane and Zander had hashed out what they want to do. Will move it before deadline

[Thane Vakarian]

i think it should be clear what my plans are *nods*

[Kivam]

Fwiw, i KNOW laine is legitimately insecure about her scum game; she mentioned it repeatedly as scum in the Ragnarok qt.

[Kivam]

Yep, just waiting on Zander

[Nynaeve]

Fwiw, i KNOW laine is legitimately insecure about her scum game; she mentioned it repeatedly as scum in the Ragnarok qt.

 

Vocally insecure, though?  DT talk is different.

[Nynaeve]

Scum QT... not DT

[Shad_]

qfr

 

[Kivam]

Qt. It's not a meta read (scumLaine plays insecure!) as much as saying that i don't think laine is as insecure as town and if she is scum then that anxiety leaking out is sincere

[Kivam]

Will move my vote in about 50 minutes. Mildly prefer Nolder to laine, mainly because of my nyn tinfoil (figure out the connection for points), but with shad and thane both on laine will vote there

[Nynaeve]

Qt. It's not a meta read (scumLaine plays insecure!) as much as saying that i don't think laine is as insecure as town and if she is scum then that anxiety leaking out is sincere

 

Okay. I didn't quite understand what you meant. Get it now.

[Nynaeve]

Will move my vote in about 50 minutes. Mildly prefer Nolder to laine, mainly because of my nyn tinfoil (figure out the connection for points), but with shad and thane both on laine will vote there

 

Last VC has Thane on Nolder, I think.

[Kivam]

Yes, he is. Perils of mobile

[Nolder]

Kiv are you doing anything special for Rosh Ashana?

Is that the correct way to spell that? I've always wondered...

[Kivam]

Hopefully Zander breaks the tire

[Kivam]

Tie

[Shad_]

Zander, Breaker of Tires