Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[Kivam]

 

 

I had to google what verbiage means.... LOL

The bust line of Verbal? That's my best guess.

Lol. Word choices.

 

What does Batmanning mean on JN? Is it possible Crushers vote was less opportunistic than fear of being left off the lynch of a teammate he couldn't daychat with? ScumCrush is usually a better player than he was this game, and if you and Laine are town, that's got to be the reason why

[Kivam]

 

 

 

Are you talking about the batmaning mention, referring to JiF?

Yes. Makes me more comfortable that you were the one to see it.

i don't follow

Never mind then. Would have been a point in your favor of you could follow my train of thought and call it out for the rest of the town to consider. But since Nolder missed it too, not being able to isn't a scumtell either

[Nolder]

 

 

I had to google what verbiage means.... LOL

The bust line of Verbal? That's my best guess.

 

Lol. Word choices.

 

What does Batmanning mean on JN? Is it possible Crushers vote was less opportunistic than fear of being left off the lynch of a teammate he couldn't daychat with? ScumCrush is usually a better player than he was this game, and if you and Laine are town, that's got to be the reason why

Dominating the game for town. Figuring stuff out. Getting scum lynched. That kind of thing.

[Nolder]

Yeah I don't get what this has to do with anything...

[Nynaeve]

I am just going to nod and smile, okay?   okay!

[Kivam]

 

 

 

I had to google what verbiage means.... LOL

The bust line of Verbal? That's my best guess.

Lol. Word choices.

 

What does Batmanning mean on JN? Is it possible Crushers vote was less opportunistic than fear of being left off the lynch of a teammate he couldn't daychat with? ScumCrush is usually a better player than he was this game, and if you and Laine are town, that's got to be the reason why

Dominating the game for town. Figuring stuff out. Getting scum lynched. That kind of thing.

Right.

 

So i see two options:

 

1) scumCrush overplayed his reaction in an opportunistic attempt to get townNyn lynched, and "batmanning" was a conscious word choice he DIDN'T believe; or

 

2) ScumCrush overplayed his reaction to scumNyn getting pressure because he was afraid she had gotten caught, and "batmanning" was legitimately what he thought was happening.

 

@mod - did scum have N0 chat?

[Nynaeve]

I think he sounded way too eager to jump on your find. That was a big part of why I thought you were on to something.

[Nynaeve]

Well that and that I felt that he was sort of building up to push that "Nyn is being antagonistic" angle.

[Nolder]

 

 

 

 

I had to google what verbiage means.... LOL

The bust line of Verbal? That's my best guess.

Lol. Word choices.

 

What does Batmanning mean on JN? Is it possible Crushers vote was less opportunistic than fear of being left off the lynch of a teammate he couldn't daychat with? ScumCrush is usually a better player than he was this game, and if you and Laine are town, that's got to be the reason why

Dominating the game for town. Figuring stuff out. Getting scum lynched. That kind of thing.

Right.

 

So i see two options:

 

1) scumCrush overplayed his reaction in an opportunistic attempt to get townNyn lynched, and "batmanning" was a conscious word choice he DIDN'T believe; or

 

2) ScumCrush overplayed his reaction to scumNyn getting pressure because he was afraid she had gotten caught, and "batmanning" was legitimately what he thought was happening.

 

@mod - did scum have N0 chat?

 

We have no way of knowing either way until the game is over.

[Kivam]

I think he sounded way too eager to jump on your find. That was a big part of why I thought you were on to something.

Agreed. That's why you're an f3 only vote for me. But if we've eliminated everything else, the improbable becomes likely.

[Kivam]

Anyway, I've called it out. Would like Nolder and Laine to weigh in, since they know crush from jn and my main concern is what happens if you're scum and get to f3. Would like to have confirmed town pining on this before then, and that's what whichever two of us are lynched before f3 will be if we do end up at f3

[Kivam]

Opining

[Nynaeve]

 

I think he sounded way too eager to jump on your find. That was a big part of why I thought you were on to something.

Agreed. That's why you're an f3 only vote for me. But if we've eliminated everything else, the improbable becomes likely.

 

 

Right back at you. 

[Nolder]

My thoughts are only Crusher knows the answers to those questions and speculating is a waste of time at best, will lead you in the wrong direction at worst.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

Shad, I don't understand why you have Nyn as locked in clear. Can you explain?

She was my n0 peek dude.

LOL.

 

Realtalk time, though. At this point in the game, if you're looking at this like there are 3 unknowns rather than 4, you're asking to get burnt. Take a fresh look at all 4 of us and figure it out.

It's a two way street. If you are extremely more confident one player is town than the other three and you start digging for reasons she might not be, you'll inevitably find some. Contradictions and bad plays will have happened somewhere down the line. Ultimately one of the three of you have to take her down to win if she's town, so these will surface. I'm not going to aid in that process. We start to focus on minutia instead of the overall quality of her game, and we're asking to get burnt. I'm not saying Nyn can't be scum. I'm saying I would rather lose to someone who has played an outstanding scum game than lose because I let myself get distracted into lynching someone who has played an outstanding town game. It's a difference of getting burnt because scum played beautifully vs getting burnt because you tinfoiled when the game was locked.

That's how i feel about Zander, so I'd accept that if we lose to him. But your only reason for keeping me in your POE (at least that you've articulated thus far) is that you know i can play a beautiful scum game. So that's a bit contradictory.

 

I'm not saying go back and find reasons to call her scum. I'm saying don't get burnt by an assumption, because that's how you lose when game should be locked. Read all 4 of us, and if you come out believing nyn is the cleanest ... cool, I'll respect that (though i - and more importantly, Thane - disagree). But not even reading her to confirm the impression you've developed ... it's a mistake, shad. Worse, it's one with no positive utility for Town at all. i just hope we're not going to regret it

 

 

It's not as if I accepted her as town D1 and started ignoring her posts.  I've paid pretty close attention to her all game and she's continued to do things that strike me in a positive way well into the present phase.  As for the difference between Nyn and you, well, I've never actually seen either of you as town, and I've only seen Nyn in US when everything was kind of backwards, because I was assuming her scum game was her town game.  But in US I thought Nyn pushed people for stupid reasons and clung on to arguments that clearly weren't indicative.  I had no idea why she was getting so much credit D1 when I thought there were 15 town in the game.  Here she's felt pretty pure.  I mean, I've disagreed with her a lot down the line, but I feel like when I try to put myself in her head it all makes sense.

 

You're a different matter.  Try to put myself into your head and I can see both a town and a scum motive for most of what you do.  I've actually given you a pass for a lot of things I would call out other players on, because I suspect town!Kivam will do scummy things for the sake of his overall game.  Stuff like frequently drawing attention to the good things you've done, the "trap" on Crusher, the conversation we're having right now.  I would be pretty leery of most people for it.  From you I think it's less indicative.  I'm not sure how to articulate this except that your play style makes you a really hard lynch but always a possible suspect at end-game.  You're not as interested in being super-obviously town as you are in being less scummy than whoever's left.  It's optimal overall--a good middle approach that allows you to win as either alignment.  But you will never look as town as Nyn does to me right now.

[Shad_]

My thoughts are only Crusher knows the answers to those questions and speculating is a waste of time at best, will lead you in the wrong direction at worst.

 

+1

[Kivam]

 

 

 

 

 

Shad, I don't understand why you have Nyn as locked in clear. Can you explain?

She was my n0 peek dude.

LOL.

 

Realtalk time, though. At this point in the game, if you're looking at this like there are 3 unknowns rather than 4, you're asking to get burnt. Take a fresh look at all 4 of us and figure it out.

It's a two way street. If you are extremely more confident one player is town than the other three and you start digging for reasons she might not be, you'll inevitably find some. Contradictions and bad plays will have happened somewhere down the line. Ultimately one of the three of you have to take her down to win if she's town, so these will surface. I'm not going to aid in that process. We start to focus on minutia instead of the overall quality of her game, and we're asking to get burnt. I'm not saying Nyn can't be scum. I'm saying I would rather lose to someone who has played an outstanding scum game than lose because I let myself get distracted into lynching someone who has played an outstanding town game. It's a difference of getting burnt because scum played beautifully vs getting burnt because you tinfoiled when the game was locked.

That's how i feel about Zander, so I'd accept that if we lose to him. But your only reason for keeping me in your POE (at least that you've articulated thus far) is that you know i can play a beautiful scum game. So that's a bit contradictory.

 

I'm not saying go back and find reasons to call her scum. I'm saying don't get burnt by an assumption, because that's how you lose when game should be locked. Read all 4 of us, and if you come out believing nyn is the cleanest ... cool, I'll respect that (though i - and more importantly, Thane - disagree). But not even reading her to confirm the impression you've developed ... it's a mistake, shad. Worse, it's one with no positive utility for Town at all. i just hope we're not going to regret it

 

 

It's not as if I accepted her as town D1 and started ignoring her posts.  I've paid pretty close attention to her all game and she's continued to do things that strike me in a positive way well into the present phase.  As for the difference between Nyn and you, well, I've never actually seen either of you as town, and I've only seen Nyn in US when everything was kind of backwards, because I was assuming her scum game was her town game.  But in US I thought Nyn pushed people for stupid reasons and clung on to arguments that clearly weren't indicative.  I had no idea why she was getting so much credit D1 when I thought there were 15 town in the game.  Here she's felt pretty pure.  I mean, I've disagreed with her a lot down the line, but I feel like when I try to put myself in her head it all makes sense.

 

You're a different matter.  Try to put myself into your head and I can see both a town and a scum motive for most of what you do.  I've actually given you a pass for a lot of things I would call out other players on, because I suspect town!Kivam will do scummy things for the sake of his overall game.  Stuff like frequently drawing attention to the good things you've done, the "trap" on Crusher, the conversation we're having right now.  I would be pretty leery of most people for it.  From you I think it's less indicative.  I'm not sure how to articulate this except that your play style makes you a really hard lynch but always a possible suspect at end-game.  You're not as interested in being super-obviously town as you are in being less scummy than whoever's left.  It's optimal overall--a good middle approach that allows you to win as either alignment.  But you will never look as town as Nyn does to me right now.

 

 

Fair enough.  I just REALLY hope that statement doesn't come back to bite us in the ass

[Shad_]

I hope so to.  But if I am going to lose, it's the least embarrassing way to do it, if that makes sense.

[Kivam]

I hope so to.  But if I am going to lose, it's the least embarrassing way to do it, if that makes sense.

 

It does and it doesn't.  It does, because you're sure of your read.  It doesn't because I've been pointing out all the ways she could be scum (ways I am picking up because I know I'm town and therefore know it's a possibility) and you're refusing to go back and reassess with fresh eyes to see for yourself if they fit.  (It's also why I'm asking Nolder or Laine to chime in; if it isn't only coming from me then you'll know for 100% certain it's something a townie can see and therefore worth looking at).  So if it turns out Nyn is the last scum (and again, I don't think she is, so I think this is all moot), you'll be embarrassed about not putting in that work.

 

IOW:

 

Go back, do the work, conclude Nyn is town, get it right = hooray, town wins, nothing to be ashamed of!

Go back, do the work, conclude townNyn is a potential scum, misclear someone else and town loses = damn, but still nothing to be ashamed of.

Ignore it, don't do the work, Nyn is town = yay town win, nothing to be ashamed of.

Ignore it, don't do the work, Nyn is scum and your read gets sheeped to a town loss = damn, and something to be ashamed of.

 

JMO, but only way to get embarrassed in this game, in either alignment, is to not put in the work

[Nynaeve]

Kivam ISO

 

 

 

Kivam ISO

 

- In his OP seer cover is Clov.

- Prods Shad and Clov to give seer cover. Comments about loving the setup, especially that VTs (like him) are getting soon to be Forsaken as characters. Also says his character is a healer who likes to torture a bit too much. And I think he's living up to that name :P 

- Has that little discussion with AJ about seer cover and when people should claim. He says he prefers early peeks.

- Lets everyone know he'll be mostly out of commission on the weekend due to RL.

- Joke vote on Calder, due to spanish mispelling. Heh.

- Seconds Clov saying that Shad wouldn't have a problem engaging as mafia.

- When Shad says he's getting a Kivam pulp fiction vibe from Calder, Kiv says that he's not sure how that would help him, since it involved deliberately picking a fight with a teammate. Fair point..

- Unvotes Calder. Says his train is half way to a lynch, and while he might go there eventually, now is not that time. Kind sounds like he's sus Calder right now. Unclear how he feels about Shad.

- Keeps discussing a bit of seer cover with AJ, while doing his seer cover dance.

- Seconds Clov in his explanation about what helpful AJ means for his alignment (nothing). Says he thinks Laine was kidding, otherwise the FoS would make no sense. I agree that it wouldn't make sense as well. 

- Agrees with AJ that character claims are moot. Tells Shad he's not ready to vote him yet but questions him on why him bringing up his character was giving him warm fuzzies. I didn't quite understand either. He explains it later, saying it's more likely to come from town... but I don't really agree with it. Neither does Kivam.

- Votes Thane. Doesn't really explain.

- When Nolder asks him if he's doing the thing... he replies that everyone does the thing but he just does it different. Okay? lol

- Says he could get behind what Calder is selling, if he would spell correctly. Also notes that it's interesting that no one has commented about his vote on Thane.

- I tell him I choose to tune him out and he cries. Highlight of the game for me. :P

- Presents a read list. Kivam, Nolde, Calder, AJ...... Zander, Halli, Dice..... Shad, Laine, Crusher.... Clov, Nyn, Thane(red). He also says he's aware that Clov is his peek.

- I asked him to expand on his reads, which he does (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95406-age-of-legends-standard-mafia-day-4/?p=3540065). Suffice to say I wasn't overly impressed with the majority of his list. Heh.

- Says that my reaction to him saying I've been acting opportunistic (irt Shad) is very defensive. We get into a bit of a semantic tiff about using the word misrep.

- I asked Kiv why he didn't expand on his Clov placement. He goes on about the battle of wits... seer cover dance of utter confusion lol

- We keep arguing about him perceiving me as opportunistic.

- I get mad because his post asking to hear from others while I'm around posting came across like he wanted me to be quiet. Anyways, we talked it through and that's behind us.

- Calder disagrees with Kiv's assertion that most of the game doesn't see his points irt Shad. Kiv asks Clov if this kind of obtuseness is usual for Calder. I think the root of the argument is that Calder basically felt that no one has been around to actually comment on the situation... vs what Kiv thinks, which is that people aren't commenting because they don't agree with the Shad push. 

- Kiv unvotes Thane and votes me, with the whole backwards argument of me saying I feel that I've been legitimately scumhunting... yada yada yada.

- I have my melt down, through which Kiv keeps pushing my buttons. 

- Clov points out that he didn't like Kiv's read list. The reasoning he gave later helps a bit but still not a fan. Kiv replies that he was meant not to agree with the read list. That there was no reasoning and some of it was for reaction testing... but that he had to push to be pushed on it. And he asks Clov why he thinks that is.

- Explains his AJ read. Also holds to his scum read on Thane, mostly based on meta. Says Crusher's vote on me seems opportunistic. unvotes and votes Crusher, while explaining the trap.

- When Crusher OMGUS votes Kiv and tries to push him for misrepping his meta... Kiv quotes his own posts and shows that Crusher's push was bogus. Crusher keeps pushing him, saying he's hedging on what he said. Even though he wasn't.

- AJ says his peek is Thane. Kiv questions him how it squares with him preferring to wait with peeks. Also says the lack of response to his vote on Thane is suggestive of wolves hoping for a lone vote on a teammate to get lost in the wash.  Kind of a stretch, I think... but eh.

- Comments about Nolder's assumption that if Kiv is mafia, and mafia wouldn't lynch mafia, then Crusher is prolly town. Basically I think what Kivam means to say is that even if he is scum, there's no guarantee Crusher isn't because there's a little thing called bussing and distancing. This line of thought from Nolder really reeks and I think Kiv responded well.

- He tells me that I'm making the same mistake Nolder is making... and that Crusher flipping scum shouldn't give me good fuzzies about him because he's more than capable of leading a lynch on a teammate. Which is absolutely true. My rationale for a town lean on him at the time was basically him not manipulating the situation when I blew a gasket. Instead he made a very good catch and drove a scum lynch on day 1. Maybe I'm being arrogant.... but I feel like if there was an opening to take me down, he would have taken it. At the same time, I see the advantages of him pushing a teammate to gain a buttload of town cred. But that's tinfoil territory and I'm not going there unless I find myself at F3 with him.

- Kivam agrees with me when I tell Shad off about his assumption that Crusher, as scum, would be less likely to go after the two people he knows in the game. I correct him and tell him that there's a bunch of players that have player with Crusher in the past... so that assumption falls flat.

- He prods people to vote... at this point Kivam and Crusher's trains are tied with 2 votes (Kivan and me on Crusher, Crusher and Nolder on Kivam).

- When Shad starts with the questions in Crusher's direction about who to suspect after he gets lynched, Calder votes him.  Kiv questions Calder about what bothers him about that.

- More interaction with me when I'm confused how Shad got to the conclusion that Crusher only knows me and Kiv. Shad ends up clarifying that later, though.

- Expresses dislike of Calder's post, where he says he feels like Shad is trying to line up someone for tomorrow's lynch once Crusher flips town. To be fair.... Shad's questions were kinda wigging me out. But my concern was more that they were both scum and that him engaging Crusher came off fake. Where's Calder thought Crusher was gonna flip town and Shad was trying to be manipulative.

- Kiv says he won't be voting for Calder or Shad today. That he feels they could be v/v and that Shad sounds genuine. Tells Shad he should prolly change his vote cause he's on the block and a Calder lynch is not likely to happen today. At that point Shad's train is leading with 4 votes and the Crusher/Kivam trains are still tied with 2 votes each.

- Zander asks Kiv if he's town reading Shad. Kivam replies he doesn't feel one way or the other. That Shad's content so far could come from town/scum shad. But he said the towniest thing he's seen him do was his questions to Crusher, which is what Calder was voting him for. 

- Calder and Kiv sort of bump heads. Calder doesn't get why Kivam is trying to dissuade him from lynching Shad if he's basically null on him. Overall Kivam responded well imo. Though I could see where Calder was coming from too. Kiv thinks that Calder's tunnel on Shad is, indirectly, a soft defense of Crusher. But I don't see it because the Calder/Shad thing started way before Crusher was pushed.... so I don't agree with that interpretation (though... we know Calder's flip now so moot, really).

- Later on he says he has no clue why people see merit in Shad's case. That late D1 Shad was been strongly town. I personally felt that a lot of Shad's earlier play pinged. He did trend up a little bit... but then sort of trended back down for me. So... eh. Seems like Kiv sees things differently than me, which doesn't mean much of anything. But I do see his read on Shad developing, which is something.

- Questions dice how he knows that scum get fake claims... then lols when dice quotes the rules of the game that indicate that scum get fake claims lol

- Crusher flips scum... Kiv rejoyces... then the weekend comes so he's not really around. But he does pop up to vote Calder, mostly based on his defense of Crusher. I personally don't love the reason, but I don't exactly hate it really. Calder went downhill pretty fast though. So my reservations about him were quite different. 

- Says that Laine not WTL Calder after EoD1 is sketching him out. Again... not sure I agree. I didn't really see it as him defending Crusher. I was more concerned with the fact that Calder was unwilling to comment about the majority of the players in the game.

- Provides seer cover on Shad. Considering Kivam was gradually start to town read Shad, this seer cover makes a lot of sense to me.

- Tells Laine to go read back at Calder's behavior at EoD. Says he townread Calder to improve his chances to survive the night. Eh.

- Clov votes Kiv without explaining. Kiv explains that he has a name for killing his own teammates and he started Calder's lynch and peaced out. Only...while Kiv did vote Calder first... I think Calder started getting some heat once he decided he didn't feel like playing and giving actual reads. And then his consequent lolcatting and at some point openly claiming scum. Plus Calder wasn't actually scum... so, yeah.

- Does the math of how mislynches we have left and all that jazz.

- Says he likes Clov's play when he claims seer. Doesn't expect a CC even if Clov isn't the seer. Says we should lynch from a group of players who have not been peeked by anyone, preferably with a dead townie on their peek list. Took me a while to understand this, but in the end he explained and it seemed like a good idea.

- Gives seer cover on me. 

- I point out that I think Halli hasn't been peeked by anyone. Kiv replies that she's in his POE but he wants to double check all the seer claims in the thread.

- Kiv and Shad basically interacting and doing seer cover (ie Shad says he knows Clov isn't the seer... Kiv tells him he's lying and that he appreciates the protection. yada yada yada).

- Tells Zander that Shad was peeked town by both Clov and himself, so he's not getting lynched. Tells him to move on. 

- Posts a list of the seer cover of all the players

- Posts an updated read list. In blue: Himself, Clov, Shad and myself, listed as his seer cover. Zander is noted as SHC. Thane light green (also SHC). Says his POE is: Hallia/Nolder/Laine.

- Posts his ISOs of Halli, Laine and Nolder (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95406-age-of-legends-standard-mafia-day-4/?p=3543750). Concludes it with a vote on Halli.

- Asks for everyone to provide seer cover.

- Argues with Thane about providing seer cover. Thane doesn't wanna provide seer cover and Kiv asks him how that stance could possibly help town. Kiv has a point, but I also understand Thane's aversion to seer cover. Not a fan myself.

- Chastises Clov for claiming, post flip. POE: Nyn-Nolder-Laine.  Zander SHC, Shad and Thane peeked town. Says he'd only vote me at F3, so that leaves Nolder and Laine for today and tomorrow. Says he doesn't care about the order. Votes Nolder.

- Points out that he disagrees with Clov's rationale that Crusher and Nolder wouldn't be scumbros because Nolder tied the trains. I agree.

- Says that anyone who is wondering about his town status should look at his actions from yesterday, especially after Clov claim and that we should ask ourselves if they would make sense from a scum POV. My answer is that is means nothing. It could be townKiv trying to provide cover. But he's crafty enough to push the seer cover as scum too. So not a huge fan of him pointing this out. So his seer cover is mostly null. Him using it to get credit is iffy.

- Suggests we turn this game from deadline to hammer.

- Thane questions the order of lynching the POE. Kiv tells him that after Laine and Nolder I should be lynched and not him. But that if it comes to that, Thane won't be alive for that anyhow. Also tells Zander that if he's scum, gg.

- I tell him that if he's scum and takes me to F3 I'm gonna make him cry. He says he's not and that he won't be lynching me till F3, if it comes to that. Says Nolder and Laine have to be the next two lynches. Says he's never voting Zander (which I agree with).

- Shad shows reservations about Nolder being scum because he came gunning for Halli D2 when she was still a viable lynch. Kiv agrees (I did too). But Shad later rectifies, saying he mixed it up and Nolder was actually pushing Thane. 

- Kiv says that the reason he backed off of me D1 (aside from landing Crusher) was when I called him a really really bad townie. He says he thought I was soft claiming cop and freaked out. Kiv... I didn't see this post till now LOL  No... I am really bad at soft claiming. It's sad, really. And a little bit embarrassing. :P

- Shad says his POE (in order) is: Laine-Kivam-Nolder. He says Kiv is the most dangerous to leave to F3. Kivam says it worries him because I'm not in his POE, and if he lynches him before Nolder, that locks the game for me if I'm scum. But also adds that it's a low probability worry.

- Votes for hammer.

- Argues again that the seer cover he provided for Clov is alignment indicative for him. Still disagree. He tells me there's no need to tinfoil...and we should keep with the POE and go with Nolder/Laine.

- Zander asks why he has a feeling that one of me/Kiv is scum. Kiv responds that we're both vocal, while Laine/Nolder are not, so that leaves a bad impression. I guess it is sort of true.

- Then Kiv gains some votes (I voted him too, second guessing myself about Nolder and kinda agreeing with Shad). Kivam votes himself. Tells Zander/Thane/Shad to make the call and says he'll vote with them. Says that if anyone else (aside from Shad/Thane/Zander) votes for him, they're scum. I didn't really care for this entire reaction. I don't like being told what to do with my vote. I didn't care for him voting for himself. None of it sat right with me, tbh. I got worried and tinfoiled even more. I also got mad, which is really never good or useful.

- Kivam says that if he's the last remaining scum, he's willing to leave his fate in the hands of others and that he doesn't think that's something scumKiv would do. I think that if cornered, like he was, it could. But at that point I was seriously second guessing myself so I was changing my mind a lot.

- I think I finally lost it when Kiv accused me of sheeping Clov, so I don't have to take responsibility. And calling me a bad townie. I don't see any problem in trusting the thoughts of someone I respect as a player who also happens to be confirmed town. Clov has a nose for these things. But I also know he can be wrong sometimes... but I don't think that taking his thoughts into consideration makes me a bad townie. I still don't.

- When asked again about his WTL, Kivam said Nolder/Laine/Nyn. This gives me good feelz. I think I'd prolly be the last of those three ScumKiv would want to end up at F3 with. Considering I sort of lost it for a bit there and gave in to tinfoil.... he could have comfortably changed his WTL order and no one would think twice about it. The fact that he didn't makes me feel better about him. Same as when he pushed me on D1. I don't feel like he's been seizing opportunities to get me out of the way, if that makes sense.

- More back and forth with Kiv. He claimed I was concerned with the conclusions drawn if he flipped town, and that was a load of BS. Rather not get into it again, but my responses are there for anyone who wants to read'em.

- Once I take a breather, I unvote and decide to go with the majority. Kiv says that's what he was looking for. Bla bla bla. Repeats that WTL order is now firmly Nolder/Laine.... Nyn (if necessary).

- says he's glad the game isn't mechanically locked.

- Tells Zander we should leave the tinfoil for F3. That we should lynch Nolder/ Alanna. 

- Questions Alanna if she trusts him less than me because of rep or game play. She says rep.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and stop here. All the rest of the posts are stuff from yesterday that are fresh in my memory... and I already got past the segment that concerned me the most about Kivam.

 

 

 

 

 

tldr  Kivam got Crusher to show his a$$ with the push on me and I have felt comfortable with him for the majority of the game. He also had at least two opportunities that I could see to push me (perhaps even successfully) and he didn't take them. on D3 his WTL was Halli/Laine/Nolder.... and he pushed Halli. And overall I'm getting a less slimy feel from him, compared to his scum game, if that's an indication lol  

 

Things that bother me are mostly him pointing at stuff he did as some proof that he's town, when he more than anyone knows that he could do those things just as easily as scum. It also bothers me that he feels the need to point it out himself... vs letting other players make that observation. His semi-push on Thane on D1 is eh... but it was D1 so it doesn't bother me as much as what I saw from Nolder/Laine irt Thane pushes. I didn't care for the whole self vote and telling me what to do yesterday. Or suggesting that I was concerned with how his flip would reflect on me. On a reread though, I admit that I gave in to tinfoil and I kinda overreacted. So a bit of a mess there, Kinda hard to assess that with a pretty hefty bias from my part.

 

 

So... keeping my tinfoil in check, I'm not going to be voting Kivam today.

[Nynaeve]

Green is stuff about Thane... red is stuff about Crusher/Halli.... Blue is stuff about Shad.

 

I might have missed bolding some stuff cause my eyes sort of glazed over at some point xD

[Nynaeve]

It's at times like these when I grow to appreciate low content players like Thane   lmfao

[Thane Vakarian]

if i am one of the top posters in a game, something would be off, lol.

 

I try to say what i have to say in as few posts as possible *nods*

[Nynaeve]

if i am one of the top posters in a game, something would be off, lol.

 

I try to say what i have to say in as few posts as possible *nods*

 

[Nynaeve]

Though I have to say.... Kiv, considering how low you think the probability of me being scum is... you sure seem to be talking a lot about it.