[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Thane Vakarian]

D2 should start in about 26 minutes (if nights still last 12 hours).

[BFG]

He didn't need to know how good his coffee was.

 

What he needed was the dead guy in his house and all evidence of said dead guy to disappear.

 

Bonnie wasn't very happy when she got home from her shift at the hospital to find the blood soaked rags and bits of brain matter in the trashcan outside.

 

TinaHel has been lynched. She was:

 

 

 

Jimmie Dimmick - Vanilla Town

 

 

It is now Night. You have until 9pm PST tomorrow to submit your actions or forfeit them.

 

Good luck!

Sorry Thane, bit longer to wait

[alannalynn]

I'll be at work :(

 

Also, if this game is still going on and I'm alive... I start school on the 20th. Probably will be a definite drop in activity. Three accounting classes this time and one management. They're trying to kill me, I just know it.

[Thane Vakarian]

 

He didn't need to know how good his coffee was.

 

What he needed was the dead guy in his house and all evidence of said dead guy to disappear.

 

Bonnie wasn't very happy when she got home from her shift at the hospital to find the blood soaked rags and bits of brain matter in the trashcan outside.

 

TinaHel has been lynched. She was:

 

 

 

Jimmie Dimmick - Vanilla Town

 

 

It is now Night. You have until 9pm PST tomorrow to submit your actions or forfeit them.

 

Good luck!

Sorry Thane, bit longer to wait

 

a bit? that would still be 21 hours....

[BFG]

 

 

He didn't need to know how good his coffee was.

 

What he needed was the dead guy in his house and all evidence of said dead guy to disappear.

 

Bonnie wasn't very happy when she got home from her shift at the hospital to find the blood soaked rags and bits of brain matter in the trashcan outside.

 

TinaHel has been lynched. She was:

 

 

 

Jimmie Dimmick - Vanilla Town

 

 

It is now Night. You have until 9pm PST tomorrow to submit your actions or forfeit them.

 

Good luck!

Sorry Thane, bit longer to wait

 

a bit? that would still be 21 hours....

 

You can still play... what did you think of the trains yesterday? Who did you 'want' to vote (and why didn't you)?

[Hallia]

I haven't really been a lurker for a while.  I made a point to change that meta here on DM and have, I think, done a great job of picking up my activity levels.

[Thane Vakarian]

Tina was too easy as a lynch. D1 always is the hardest day to find a wolf, but i had doubts she was a wolf. Did say she was worth investigating, didn't mean she was worth lynching.

 

When D2 starts i'll vote Darthe. His handling of Tina and me is odd. Didn't vote him because i knew it wouldn't get enough traction end d1, not enough people around (hybrid hammer, perhaps, but not here)  

[BFG]

I haven't really been a lurker for a while.  I made a point to change that meta here on DM and have, I think, done a great job of picking up my activity levels.

<3 loved you in Belichick, but I'm not getting the same feeling this game :(

[Hallia]

That's ok BFG, I will continue to endeavor to make you feel good about me <3

 

That being said, I hate that I was wrong on Tina >.<  Looking at her wagon now.

[Thane Vakarian]

i hope i get a better feeling for you this game, Hallia. 

 

 

 

 

this shot is not meant for you

 

 

 

[Hallia]

Final Count 1

 

Kivam (1) - Seph

TinaHel (7) - Darthe, Shad, AlannaLynn, Hallia, Sooh, BFG, Talya

Shad (3) - Kivam, TinaHel, Leelou

 

Not Voting (2) - Thane Vakarian, dicetosser1

 

7 to lynch.

 

Wow, most of the people I don't have a good read on are on the Tina lynch. 

[BFG]

 

I haven't really been a lurker for a while.  I made a point to change that meta here on DM and have, I think, done a great job of picking up my activity levels.

<3 loved you in Belichick, but I'm not getting the same feeling this game :(

 

At least not yet :)

[alannalynn]

Okay I went through the EOD1, up through page 26 where I stopped, I'll put it in a spoiler for you sensitive folks

 

 

 

#387 I have to agree with Shad here, he makes sense in how he reacted to something he knew was a test.

 

Catching up, I liked Laine's catch up posts and thoughts.  Aside from a couple of her nulls, and Dice being town, it's pretty in line with mine.

 

 

I'm going to Vote: Tina

I think I'm just gonna give up on reading Dice from this point forward. Nobody's ever going to be happy with me. LOL I think cautiously town would be my read on him at the time of my WoT. Also of note for anyone reading my reads list from my 2-parter WoT, they were not in order...

Town pile: Dice, BFG, Thane, Hally
Mix: Sooh, Seph
Leaning scum: Shad, Tina

Null: Darthe, Kiv, Talya, Leelou

 

I tend to say "list" when they're in order and "pile" for general slots to put people in. In reality, as of when I made that post, it would have been BFG, Thane, Hally, Dice in order.

 

gut call, i wouldn't object to a Darthe or dice vote.

Why Darthe, why Dice? (already answered, get back to this later)

 

 

gut call, i wouldn't object to a Darthe or dice vote.

Dice is troubling me. I don't like that his posts since I said I 'wanted to call him town' are on the validity of tone reading as a method as opposed to reading the players. But his banter felt better at the beginning of the game and he had a couple of early soft reads I liked. Not sure I'm ready to vote here yet, could be a Day 2 read for me

Why Darthe? Can you explain any more on Dice?

Why are you discounting tone reads? IIRC, Dice has mentored Seph before and he knows how he thinks. So, if anyone I would trust that he could at least make a good attempt at reading Seph based on how he's posting. Honestly I'm tempted to label Seph TWTBW for his actions, but I know that's not gonna fly, so I'll give it more time.

 

#413 BFG, I agree that Seph's disappearance after pressure was relieved is curious.
Kiv/Darthe MEH for me, I need a lot of time to get those two. Shad has been pinging on some posts and not on others, where I'm used to reading him clear town.

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.  

I only town lead when it's necessary. I'm okay with BFG taking the lead, she asks better questions and hunts down more details than I ever will LOL. Hopefully I wont annoy you too much this game with my posting since the other game I'm in has a lot of high volume posters to keep up with.

Dice, presence? Since when? I'm happy to get the posts from him we've gotten so far... He's generally a low poster compared to most, so I don't see what you're getting at entirely with his "town presence".

And Darthe... he's been more quiet lately all over, due to his job, so I'll really just take what I can get. Is the goal here to lynch inactives or mafia?

 

 

Decided to highlight points where Thane has faked or forced tone here to cast himself in a (townlike) light.  Color matching, yo.  

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

 

Ew. I actually see what you mean Darthe, and I have to hold myself back from doing this as scum because I want to SEEM unsure as town, but too much comes off as overselling it. I don't think an entire case can be made on him just off this though, so I'll keep it in mind. Will need to read other games with him to see how this holds true, as well.

 

#424 This solidly feels like a backtracking post from Shad. I understand intentionally going for reactions, but also slipping up and saying something OOC and then saying it was a reaction thing to see how Seph would respond sounds worse.

 

gut feeling on this, BFG. Those are quite hard to explain, but i have a feeling something's up with him.

 

it's true that i'm not so worried about the other players, but they haven't struck my spidey-senses like he did.

Wishy washy

 

In response to Sooh post #433, I mis-worded that, it should have been "I didn't like her NOT adding to what was going on earlier" in reference to this post where you dropped commentary but didn't add anything to what was going on either way.

 

 

BareBEAR with me here for a moment.  Ya'll know how as town you post what you think and maybe give a little bit of thought to how it sounds so that you don't step over your own feet when posting? 

 

Seph tends to not do that last part as town.  He isn't generally very self aware and it makes it a pain to work with him over time.  So I'm letting him ride on that atm.

 

However, when you're a wolf you tend to have to think about how to say what you want to say.  You know it isn't true and knowledge that you're trying to fabricate something generally causes people to struggle when creating a push at someone else.  A new player might stick to completely safe, secure statements.  A more experienced player might try to goad or pull out players to argue with them in a bubble, isolated from the people "outside" the discussion.  Really experienced players know what they find as town and just mimic that.  However, and this is something I use a lot, most people don't know at what point to stop talking.  What I see a lot from wolves is that they go a sentence or even a few sentences too far and it creates something like what I'll quote in a minute.  

^This

 

LINK Interesting case on Thane, not sold. Probably gonna do some research on Thane for this one unless BFG already beat me to it? *hoping*

*is lazy*

 

*applauds*

 

you see right through me. Ofcourse i'm baiting you. I want to see how you react here. And i did get a reaction out of you, which is nice. I do crazy things at times, that much is true. I do still think you are wrong though.I know i'm town and i highly doubt Seph is a wolf this game. 

 

Now, answer me this: are you town this game?

Feels very reactive coming from Thane

 

Darthe where do you get layers from Soohs post?

I feel like we're reading different things this game, and that worries me after last game with Clov

We still won, despite all my efforts!

 

 

Bare with me here for a moment.  Ya'll know how as town you post what you think and maybe give a little bit of thought to how it sounds so that you don't step over your own feet when posting?  
 
Seph tends to not do that last part as town.  He isn't generally very self aware and it makes it a pain to work with him over time.  So I'm letting him ride on that atm.
 
However, when you're a wolf you tend to have to think about how to say what you want to say.  You know it isn't true and knowledge that you're trying to fabricate something generally causes people to struggle when creating a push at someone else.  A new player might stick to completely safe, secure statements.  A more experienced player might try to goad or pull out players to argue with them in a bubble, isolated from the people "outside" the discussion.  Really experienced players know what they find as town and just mimic that.  However, and this is something I use a lot, most people don't know at what point to stop talking.  What I see a lot from wolves is that they go a sentence or even a few sentences too far and it creates something like what I'll quote in a minute.

So what changed from earlier in the game when you thought Seph was wolfy for the strange logic?

*want an answer on this.

 

Again another odd post in response to Darthe. Thane what are you thinking here?

 

Talya reads, noted for later

 

So I guess I will Hammer - so wasn't waiting for it honest :D

 

[v]Tina[/v]

<3 lol Talya we can always count on you

 

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.  

 

sometimes true. also true is that you often doubt me when you are mafia.

Do you have support of this Dice?

 

Gonna move Thane to a mixed category pending more information, Sooh can be townish now, Dice still okay in town, Shad firmly in scummy... Darthe and Talya trending into townish for effort

 

 

 

 

[alannalynn]

Sigh.

[dicetosser1]

by support can i say see this game or that game? then no. But its something i have noticed in Thane and Tina actually. they are two who can usually spot town dice pretty easy and i have certain expectations of them to do that i guess.

 

When they are mafia they usually sow doubt on me to set up a later mislynch.

[alannalynn]

by support can i say see this game or that game? then no. But its something i have noticed in Thane and Tina actually. they are two who can usually spot town dice pretty easy and i have certain expectations of them to do that i guess.

 

When they are mafia they usually sow doubt on me to set up a later mislynch.

[Thane Vakarian]

Then stop complaining about it and show me town dice, bro. I'm more than willing to give you a chance. 

[Thane Vakarian]

Laine, i can get why you put me in a mixed pile for the moment. I'd probably do the same if i saw someone pulling stuff like that.

 

The only goal i had while doing what i did was to see how Darthe would react. It can look a bit.. odd... but i don't have the fine tricks of the game. I use a sledgehammer. And, i'm not convinced by him being town at all at this point.

 

I wonder who is, except Darthe himself...

[BFG]

I'm not discounting tone reads. Day 1 Thane and Dice will frequently have a 'better' solve than me (if town) (which is partially why I try to read them early). I have more success recently with Dice than Thane, and can only confidently read Thane if he's being uber-involved, he isn't this game yet

 

Re Dice; It's not the validity of the argument it's the fact that's what he's choosing to post about. So far he's made one or two posts that have reads/game solve intent. Everything else is essentially fluff (including the posts about tone reads). The timing of his 'game solve' posts coming before I 'wanted to town read' him worries me, given his absence of them afterwards.

 

In this game, I liked his read on Seph, but I can't clear him from one town read.

[Thane Vakarian]

i usually start connecting things when N1 is done and have more to go on. It's what happened in Bellichick too. I tend do dislike D1... 

[BFG]

Thane can you look at the votes on Tina? You used to have an uncanny ability to spot the mafia on your train every mislynch :/

[Thane Vakarian]

i'll certainly look into it. Perhaps i solve the game N1

[BFG]

Lol, I'm trying to XD

[alannalynn]

Catching up.  I see from the opening posts that Tina is a dead townie; that wasn't anywhere near on the radar when I signed off for Shabbos so I'm going to read through the thread and react to posts as I see them to see if that helps make sense of it.

 

 

 

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

 

All due respect, Seph, this is silly.  Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

 

 

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.

darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!

I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.

[unvote]

[v] kiv[/v]

 

 

And this is also silly.  (Not the vote, but the thought process).  Mafia members don't make or post "reads".  Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum).  But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

 

 

I disagree. 1) townies dont know who the scum are. some people   and this relates to your confirmed townies call list thing   want people to give their reads so they can hold them to those and use it as a baseline to watch how they develop/change etc. therefore scum need to give reads to appear like everyone else. 2) Scum still have to make reads. how else do they pick out the cop/doc/whateva before a claim? 3) if you make no reads in thread  or you fencesit on reads all the time  you get lynched. therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched.

 

the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg

 

re mafia knowing alignments   in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for

 

what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this

This reads to me like deliberate misinterpretation and spin. I really don't think anything is being spun here, and I'm going to respond because I agree with Dice on this front. The problem is that you two are speaking different languages here

 

1) Everyone claims to be making alignment reads.  But only townies actually make alignment reads.  Scum fake alignment reads.  That's not a distinction without a difference; inconsistencies and other nuances are key to identifying fake reads and catching scum. I can concede this point that there are differences between town and scum making those reads, but experienced scum will try to make those reads as authentically town as possible so that there is little discernible difference between the two. Therefore, technically BOTH are making reads in that one is going through the process to figure out the read and the other is going through the process to fabricate how to make the read sound authentic. 

 

2) Equivocation.  Alignment reads and role reads are two completely different things.  And in a game like this, with only a 1x cop and no doc (and yes, until proven otherwise I'm assuming scum didn't do something stupid with their role selections), role reads aren't as important for scum until much closer to endgame. I agree to this point.

 

3) "therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched."  No. No, no, no, no, no.  Scum fake reads to avoid getting lynched. I think this is a semantics issue here. Scum still have to make/fabricate reads, whether they be real or not.

 

4) "the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg".  Sure.  Because I guarantee you BFG is the N1 kill if she's actually a townie.  Clear consensus town, not a whiff of suspicion headed her way - and that means that unless she's scum, scum have no reason at all to keep her around.  Of course, that could lead to a WIFOM, and you all know how much I love those when I play as scum, but that doesn't seem to be the way most of DM plays as scum these days from what I've seen, so ... yeah.  I'm assuming BFG isn't going to be around very long. BFG doesn't have to die N1. She was consensus D1 in Harry Potter mafia and led the lynch on Mafia!Dice, AND was town Seer, so that isn't necessarily the case. Depending who is on the team, they'll go for consensus townie or threat to mafia

 

5) "re mafia knowing alignments   in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for" This, right here, was the pingiest of all parts of your post.  So I'm right about scum knowing alignments in this game (which is the one we're currently playing) but you're looking to argue with me about whether that's true in all games?  Who the hell cares?  If this was a mafia theory thread that would be a really excellent point - but in a game thread, where all you should be caring about is how to approach this game we are currently playing, it makes no difference at all.  This reads like pure spin and an attempt to throw as much suspicion at me before deadline on a D1 where you know I can't come back and respond before getting lynched.  I have no idea yet how close that came, but it's scummy as hell and you are immediately at the top of my personal suspect pile. This is blowing it way out of proportion because I don't think that it was the intention at all when Dice made his post (granted I cannot speak for him, but I believe I'm thinking along the same lines as him). Several of us wanted clarification on an assumption you made about the meaning of Seph's OP, where he discounted it as meaning what you believed by returning a vote on you. What is being done as a result is clarification of whatever misinterpretation of semantics that is going on, not trying to lynch you as a result of it. What bothers ME is that you're using this spin on words to in turn FOS Dice for it. I don't see how Dice is spinning anything to try to discredit you in his post, but him trying to clarify the gap between what you think.

 

 

 

 

And BFG is looking good, loving the questioning

 

I agree with this ... which makes me think BFG is likely dead tonight.

 

Interesting strategy question - in a game like this, with likely no doctor, is announcing our town reads a particularly good play?

 

 

 

as above  yes  gives a baseline to look at people on. If i list BFG as town then suddenly start voring her for no apparent reason i get questions to answer as to why. this allows people to get a bead on me.

 

Again, pingy as hell.  In a game with no doctor, consensus townies - which are the most important players to have alive at endgame - are dead meat.  Easy kill targets, to make LYLO and MYLO go better for scum.  Personally, I'm going to treat this game like my Avatar game - I'll be coming after even the people I think are the clearest townies because I want to give them a bit of cover.  I think we all ought to be identifying our scumreads and shutting the hell up about who we're most certain is town.  It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for scum to identify and kill consensus townies if we do it that way - and the "of course we should be naming townies" response from you (and Laine) could very easily be scum trying to ensure a clean kill list.  Do. Not. Like.

 

I don't see the point here. I use town reads from those I'm reading as town to narrow down my POE for scum. It feels to me like you're trying to scare us into having no clear townies and muddling reads by spreading suspicion which I'm not sure I agree with. It's one thing in Avatar where you're protecting a specific player, but another where we are scum hunting for a team to determine who they are connected with.

 

At the same time I am intrigued by the concept and would like to know how this would work in action but not totally comfortable with it.

[dicetosser1]

Laine feel free to speak for me. You do it better then i do atm lol