House of Cards

[Darthe]

@Clov - dice was my N0 townie peek, not a good looking vote from you.

 

Makes sense for you to defend him but not for you to actively critique other players who don't have your peek.  Take a look at how I've handled people on Tress as an example.

[Clovdyx]

@Clov - dice was my N0 townie peek, not a good looking vote from you.

 

Give better cover next time.

[Nynaeve]

I'm not sold on her "knowing better". No disrespect to her, but if she only ever rolled scum once in a turbo game it means she has zero experience with it. Add to that being caught on D1 and you got a really stressful situation that she wouldn't really know how to get out of, bar assistance from her teammates. If I was in a scum team with her, I would advice her to use the new confused card. That's the only way she'd be able to avoid a lynch, considering she's been pinging hardcore.

[Leelou]

 

 

@Clov - dice was my N0 townie peek, not a good looking vote from you.

Makes sense for you to defend him but not for you to actively critique other players who don't have your peek. Take a look at how I've handled people on Tress as an example.

That would be nice, but I don't have a lot of time to go post to post right now to critique.

 

Just restating my N0 peek from before and I'm not liking the push.

 

From skimming, if I do have time to vote today, I'm voting for Cass.

[Cory Caboose]

Nyn is clear to me now, fwiw

 

If anyone figures out why, please keep it to yourself for the time being

[Clovdyx]

I'm not sold on her "knowing better". No disrespect to her, but if she only ever rolled scum once in a turbo game it means she has zero experience with it. Add to that being caught on D1 and you got a really stressful situation that she wouldn't really know how to get out of, bar assistance from her teammates. If I was in a scum team with her, I would advice her to use the new confused card. That's the only way she'd be able to avoid a lynch, considering she's been pinging hardcore.

 

I meant that she would know that her method of defending herself isn't going to get attention off her.  She's been mislynched two or three games in a row I think?  Pretty sure her first thought isn't going to be act so bad she gets pushed so much they leave her alone.

[Clovdyx]

I like where your head's at, though.

[Darthe]

Nyn has been clear for a bit now Cory.  Love the avi btw.

 

Leelou trends down for the mere mention of voting cass combined with her play.  I just don't buy that she finds cass wolfier than several others.

 

Sooh/Dice/Leelou plz concede if I just picked your team.  It's an alright thing to do, really.

 

You just PM it to Yates unless you want the world to see your shame on a QT.

[Darthe]

I'm confident that Sooh isn't faking this I just don't think she is comfortable enough to fake townieness yet.   She is uncomfortable enough as town that that makes sense.

[Leelou]

Did I vote? No. I just said I was skimming. She is sticking out from my quick read. I do happen to be on vacation, but I'm trying to not fall too far behind. My time on dm is about to end for the day.

[Nynaeve]

 

I'm not sold on her "knowing better". No disrespect to her, but if she only ever rolled scum once in a turbo game it means she has zero experience with it. Add to that being caught on D1 and you got a really stressful situation that she wouldn't really know how to get out of, bar assistance from her teammates. If I was in a scum team with her, I would advice her to use the new confused card. That's the only way she'd be able to avoid a lynch, considering she's been pinging hardcore.

 

I meant that she would know that her method of defending herself isn't going to get attention off her.  She's been mislynched two or three games in a row I think?  Pretty sure her first thought isn't going to be act so bad she gets pushed so much they leave her alone.

 

 

 

What you're talking about is how a player with experience would act, though. That's sorta my point.  

[Cory Caboose]

My major issue with Cass is that I read one of her posts and my eyes glazed over a little and it reminded me of the exact style of another post she had made in another game that I had read, like weird mafia deja vu

 

It was this post she made in this game:

 

 

 

Got interrupted by dinner after all... 

 

Here's a breakdown of players posting against me thus far:

 

Darthe

 

- Push started after I mentioned being more suspicious of him than anyone else thus far and voiced disagreement with his driving early Seer cover even though it's more likely to be inaccurate/more helpful to the wolves;

 

- Calls my list awful, plants seed that I'm deliberately being TWTBAW - does not question anything he finds suspicious;

 

- Hinges on the fact that my early leans are different to his and that I haven't provided a 'compensatory' number of town reads/that he can't understand me starting with a base of 'reading more-likely scum', when he knows after discussions in our mentor chat that that is exactly how I work;

 

- Has a point about my leans positionally and the odds that at least two of them are wrong;

 

- Calls my notes 'poor reasoning' and 'flimsy' but doesn't question/discuss anything specific.

 

 

 

This is an awful wolf list.

 

Cass are you attempting to incorperate TWTBAW by chance?  If so just use our codeword.  It's Clovian Dongonomics if you forgot.

 

 

'Awful' because it has you at the top so early on, perchance? You sir, are on my watch list. If it's genuinely awful to you and you are Town, discuss with me why, or just bite me - you pointing out that it's awful without further discussion is still scummy, especially since you're one who has specifically told me it's ok to be 'wrong' sometimes  

I do bite, you know?

 

But truly you used poor reasoning to put four of my town reads into a wolf pile and didn't provide a compensatory number of town reads.  Unless you start reading everyone as scum and work your way up (no clue why you would do that) there isn't any reason to have everyone positionally where they are since you know you have to be wrong about at least two of them.  Also, I thought the reasons didn't just look flimsy, they looked like you were trying to find a reason to fit those people into those reads.

 

 

I could have sworn there was a particular island/country/continent that was awake at just this time.

 

Australia is FROZEN

 

 

 

Clov

 

- Votes early

 

- Doesn't understand my reads, but gives specific reasons why and asks specific questions for more info

 

 

 

[v]Cass[/v]

 

I don't understand most of those reads at all.  I don't see how you can say Darthe has been defending Nyn at all, and I'm not sure you can make a fair case of "distancing" when he's actively trying to get pressure on the slot.  Pushing him for seer cover makes no sense to me.

 

Where has Kaylee been pushy at all?  Observant questioning, sure, but I don't see how you can argue that's anti-town.

 

 

 

Hally

Says she doesn't like my reads, wrt to Kaylee. Fair enough, at this point.

 

 

Also, I agree with Clov re: Kaylee.  Not liking Cass's reads.

 

 

AJ

- Votes early

- Simultaneously suggests that my post was 'strikingly similar' to game we wolfed together and calls it strange that I have scum reads on ~accepted greens because I'm not usually 'against the grain'.

 

 

 

[v]Cass[/v]

 

 

Pulled some quotes as I was catching up just now, will get them sorted and responded to in time.

 

Sooh/Cass wagons aren't bad atm, I think.

 

 

Having just wolfed with Cass I think that post reads strikingly similar to what I read from her last game. She doesn't really come across to me as an against the grain type so her having 4 scum reads in more or less ~accepted greens is strange.

 

 

 

Cory

 

Cass you've been a wolf like the last 4-5 games and I have seen you coast on little blurbs of "villagery content" with no real dedication or commitment to figuring out the game - and nobody pushes you for whatever reason

 

Just letting you know if you are a wolf here I will not be allowing you to do this for as long as I'm alive

 

 

 

Cass you've been a wolf like the last 4-5 games and I have seen you coast on little blurbs of "villagery content" with no real dedication or commitment to figuring out the game - and nobody pushes you for whatever reason

 

Just letting you know if you are a wolf here I will not be allowing you to do this for as long as I'm alive

 

I don't know if it's the timing of this post, or the implication that she posted "villagery content", but I'm really suspicious of this post.  The idea is probably basically null for Cory - he can make these town leader posts (I don't really know what to call them, bold is what I'm referring to here) as any alignment - with maybe the slightest hint of town, but this seems completely out of place here.

 

 

 

Don't blame me because you made a post insinuating she's going to skate on villagery content after she made an incredibly sketchy reads list and three people pointed it out.

 

Wasn't calling her content villagery, was referencing her last like ~5 games where she's post 5-6 times a day and they'd all be "long, villagery posts" IE long WoTs with no real content that people don't bother to read and just say "well she wrote a lot of words, so that's villagery" and continued to ignore her

 

I haven't even read the post she made yet in an analytical eye, just sort of skimmed over it

 

Darthe often flip flips on his read on me (see Arthurian mafia game). He just has a hard time reading me. And as I said earlier... if he was green reading me right off the bat that would prolly worry me. What he's doing right now isn't.

 

Also not surprised to see my name on your list since you have a tendency to perceive me as scummy. We've talked about this before.

 

 

Overall I disagree with a significant chunk of your list but I haven't decided yet if it's likely to come from scum you or not. Talk to me about your town leans. Do you have any?

 

 

 

I need to break this up into two quotes because of quote limit.

[Cory Caboose]

That post reminded me of THIS POST from a different game:

 

 

 

Ok. Proper reads. WoT likely incoming. Sili first. I'm gonna try spoilering multiquotes instead of linking (sorry if it ends up looking like mush/links are better, copy-paste and backwards-forwards on the phone/tablet is horrible).

 

Observations/Analysis (Sili)

 

- First to post, content seems slightly off - Not sure how the rest of us posting quickly would help anyone 'tell' who the rest of Town are. Seems odd.

 

 

 

Haha first! Quickly others post so i can tell who my teammates are

 

 

- Votes BFG because 'her smile is sinister', in relation to the grin she gave at finding Tina's typo - what the?

 

 

 

Secrete

 

I need to [v]bfg[/v]

  

Her smile is sinnester.

 

 

 

 

I was initially trying to keep in mind that it could be a joke vote but:

i) Do joke votes happen in hammer games?; and

ii) If it was a joke, why later make/give an excuse to unvote?

 

 

 

Yeah, so I might have been to abrupt before... I was on mobile... but clov, I'm getting the impression you're a wolf.

 

 

 

- Clov asks straight out if Sili ate the cake. Sili's response (without giving a real reason/proper explanation) is that he gets the impression that Clov is a Wolf, but when I do almost the exact same thing and ask straight out if he's wilfing again, his response is that his confidence in me as Town has increased. It's inconsistent, and it pings. (Also, this is what first makes me wonder if Sili-Clov are W-W creating distance...)

 

 

 

Sili, did you eat the cake?  Be honest.

  

I am not a party killer. But your response is.

  

 

Yeah, so I might have been to abrupt before... I was on mobile... but clov, I'm getting the impression you're a wolf.

  

 

 

 

Cass, have you played a lot of scum? could you link me?

 

None! I'm still (somewhat nervously) awaiting my first rand as scum... For now I'm honestly still quite happy to just keep being Town and keep learning/figuring out how to solve the puzzles!!

TBH though Sili, I find this question slightly odd coming from you, considering that you've played both of the two only 'extended' games I've been in and I mentioned this in the sign up thread when Tina asked if I'd played before. You should already know that I've only been Town...

Even though you say you've got me as Town, my gut's wondering if you're trying to set me up as scum... Yes, it's early and I may already have a habit of always reading you as scum, but still...

I like my gut *g*

 

You wilfing against me again?

  

tl;dr - all reads are tentative, but some more than others.

 

Also, my confidence in Cass went up with her last post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- He posts a list of 'reads' of everyone based on opening posts, says that's worked for him lately and then 'says' that everyone who has posted '= (tentative) Town', except for Clov who '= (tentative) Scum' (still no real reason/explanation given) and adds in that I might be Scum if I've played a couple of drawn out games. (I still don't like this!!!)

 

 

 

Yates = town - tentative

BFG = town - tentative

Jmm = town - tentative

Cass = town - unless she's played a couple drawn out wolf games recently.

Clov = scum - tentative

 

 

 

- He asks me if I've played 'a lot of scum?' and for links, even though he should definitely know better (explanation quoted in spoiler).

 

 

 

 

Cass, have you played a lot of scum? could you link me?

 

None! I'm still (somewhat nervously) awaiting my first rand as scum... For now I'm honestly still quite happy to just keep being Town and keep learning/figuring out how to solve the puzzles!!

TBH though Sili, I find this question slightly odd coming from you, considering that you've played both of the two only 'extended' games I've been in and I mentioned this in the sign up thread when Tina asked if I'd played before. You should already know that I've only been Town...

Even though you say you've got me as Town, my gut's wondering if you're trying to set me up as scum... Yes, it's early and I may already have a habit of always reading you as scum, but still...

I like my gut *g*

You wilfing against me again?

 

 

 

 

- 'Explains' himself to Clov, saying the tentative Town 'reads' weren't Town 'leans' yet (?)

- Doesn't respond to my question about whether or not he's wilfing, but claims my opening post is 'less likely to come from my first wolf game'.

 

Even I can see that this is strange and doesn't make sense (I don't even know how I'm going to sound when I eventually rand wolf!!). Again, comes across as Scum lining me up to fall when he flips, and I don't like it!

 

 

 

I'm just as confused btw.

 

Anyhow, clov, this is irrelevant. Miscommunication wouldn't make me scum. Like, when I said tentative I simply meant to imply these aren't town leans yet. It was different only in Cass' case since her opening is actually a lot less likely to come from her first wolf game; I was more certain and I wanted to convey something beyond the obvious: that the read depended on the veracity of her inexperience. 

 

Just because I didn't say something doesn't mean I'm not thinking it.

 

 

 

-Says jmm's question on how many wilves is 'wolfy'.

I don't understand this link, particularly since I was about to ask the same thing - pings.

 

 

 

 

Experienced mafia-ers: 

With 8 are we looking at 2 or 1 mafia probably?

on review this is wolfy. might downgrade you to a scum lean later.

 

 

 

 

- Says a whole lot of nothing/WIFOM in #43 that I really just do not get.

 

 

 

I thought it was obvious what happened and didn't want to clutter the thread. You're welcome try to figure me out, and you can ask and I can answer, Inconsistencies are terribly important. I remember catching one wolf who in the first 300 posts changed his behavior.

 

 

 

- Links to Town game for me, knows I tend to read him as scum, doesn't suggest any 'similarities' to look for.

 

 

- Swaps scum read from Clov to jmm and, after twice saying Clov was coming off as scum, changes to 'Nah, Clov's responses were ok - it was likely v/v violence'

 

- 'Explains'/makes excuses for the change by saying it 'gives breathing room/creates content'

(Not buying this - Again, W-W distance-protection vibe?)

 

- Makes possible W-W connection worse by saying 'If Clov is scum I'm spewed clear.'

 

 

 

I dont think i would read me as a wolf if i knew me so i dont see what u see tress.

Current reads are

Yates town

Clov town

Cass town

Tress town

Bfg town

Jmm scum.

Expect me to itterate heavily in the background. Sometimes ppl find it fishy that i nudge and swap targets but i like to give reads breathing room. It also creates content. If something is important ill usually elaborate to persuade people

  

Nah, Clov's responses were okay.  It was likely v/v violence.

  

Clov could always be scum lol, but if he is I'm spewed clear.

 

 

 

 

-Interacts with Thane, seems strange to ask if someone is 'ok' with a read of them, but tbh otherwise null to me.

 

 

i'm always cautious and selective on what and how i write things in a mafia game. On that note... from everything i've been reading here, you do feel/look wolfiest for the moment Sili.

Okay, good to know. It would explain a lot if you edit as you write, but I think I need to see your scum game. Are you okay with a light town lean due to impulsive and cavalier tone? Do you understand where I'm coming from?

 

 

- Suggests Yates is just fishing for responses pairing both of us as scum the pairings were 'absurd' (based on the fact I'm reacting the way I usually do).

The choice of the word 'absurd' and the limitation of the comment to just Yates here pings to me - Why just Yates when Tress also mentioned considering it? Why 'absurd' when both these players are apparently in your list for Town?? I don't like people thinking I may be linked with Sili, but calling the idea 'absurd' seems decidedly too strong. Knowing I am Town, and 'knowing' Sili makes a point of being very careful with his words, him choosing to describe it this way seems purposefully false and worries me. I may be tinfoiling like crazy here - but I'm getting the vibe (again) that I'm being (cleverly) set up. So, FTR, I don't like what that 'careful distance' might 'suggest' to the rest of Town if my gut is right and Sili flips scum.

 

- Adds 'objectively you look very good if I flip scum'

As above - I don't like what that 'approval' 'suggests'if/when Sili flips scum!

 

 

 

Kay then. I think after this game I'll ask you how you play scum if you haven't randed it here.

 

 

 

FWIW I really don't like people pairing me with Sili at this point, considering he's openly the one I've found most sus (Sorry Sili if I'm tinfoiling again).

I think Yates was fielding for responses... like, the pairings were absurd. You're reacting to me the exact way you usually do.

 

Objectively you look very good if I flip scum.

 

 

 

 

Sili

In a nutshell, at this point, I'm totally reading you as scum (again), but I'm interested in some elaboration from you before I vote.

 

- What are your thoughts/reactions to the above?

- Why should we be reading you as Town?

- What's the difference in your mind between a Town 'read' and a Town 'lean'?

- What was your reason for suggesting Clov was a likely Wolf? Do you have a reason for not elaborating at the time?

- You said chopping and changing is normal for you, and that you like to 'give your reads breathing room', but you 'pushed' Clov at least twice before suddenly dropping him and saying he actually seemed fine. Why?

- Why is jmm's question about the number of wolves scummy?

- How can you say you have Clov as Town because your interactions were 'likely v/v violence', but then claim you're 'spewed' clear if he is Scum? I can't follow that logic/don't see anything that points to either of these btw.

 

 

And lastly

 

 

O.m.g. Mobiles. Suck.

 

 

*End WoT*

 

That is all.

Without cheating does anyone want to guess what her alignment was in that game?

 

 

[Nynaeve]

I think we have the best chance of nailing scum on D1 by rolling with a Sooh lynch, IMO. Her content speaks for itself. Her woe me posts seem like AtE to me. She could be doing it cause she panicked at getting caught or she might be taking a cue from her scummates. But even in the game where she was the seer and got run up.... she didn't react so dramatically as she did here. I don't like it and she's not getting any leeway from me.

[Cory Caboose]

God the formatting is seriously screwed up

Tried to get that to work and it kept expanding the page and tinkered with it and it still came up weird

 

ffs DM

[Cory Caboose]

I think we have the best chance of nailing scum on D1 by rolling with a Sooh lynch, IMO. Her content speaks for itself. Her woe me posts seem like AtE to me. She could be doing it cause she panicked at getting caught or she might be taking a cue from her scummates. But even in the game where she was the seer and got run up.... she didn't react so dramatically as she did here. I don't like it and she's not getting any leeway from me.

 

Okok

 

But let's go ahead and find her wolfbros too? 

[Nynaeve]

 

My major issue with Cass is that I read one of her posts and my eyes glazed over a little and it reminded me of the exact style of another post she had made in another game that I had read, like weird mafia deja

 

She's kinda bad at summarizing. It's been a work in progress LOL

[Nynaeve]

Okok

 

But let's go ahead and find her wolfbros too? 

 

You got it.

 

I wanna hear more from Lee (I think she said she'll be able to post tomorrow). And I think dice is away on a family thing but I hope he'll still show as well. Those are the two I really need to hear from the most. 

[Nynaeve]

Clov, can you expand on your town read on Verbal? 

[Cory Caboose]

FWIW I think the intent of my post on Cass is much more of a "be wary of ~clearing her for making big, eye-glaze over posts with lots of words and quotes" more than "Cass is a wolf let's lunch her"

 

She's firmly in my PoE but I'm not 1000% sure she's the best lunch today

 

Through page 20, decided I'm going to swim after all but I'll be back soon enough, didn't even realize that EOD was tomorrow until like five minutes ago so doesn't feel as URGENT

[Nynaeve]

Have fun! I'm prolly gonna hit the sack soon.

[Clovdyx]

Clov, can you expand on your town read on Verbal? 

 

Heeeeeeeeeeeeee'ssssss tooooooooowwwwwnnnnnnnnn.  Dooooooooooooonnnnn'ttttttt lllllllyyyyyyyyynnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnchhhhhhhhhhhhh hiiiiiiiiiiiiiimmmmm.

[Cory Caboose]

[Darthe]

I actively doubt that Cass is the best lynch today.

 

Yates what's the vc?

[Clovdyx]

As opposed to just passively doubting it, Darthe?