House of Cards

Sooh · May 27, 2015

Lol thanks Cory.

My strongest reads are atm

Kaylee v

Wombat v

and leaning Verbal v

Thanks for communicating with me though....

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

Kind of understand where Cass is coming from in 394, but in my experience, Darthe pushing something that I see as an anti-town angle isn't particularly alignment indicative and his other content has been good imo.

Cory Caboose · May 27, 2015

Lol thanks Cory.

My strongest reads are atm

Kaylee v

Wombat v

and leaning Verbal v

Thanks for communicating with me though....

Why wombat and verbal v?

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

Darthe often flip flips on his read on me (see Arthurian mafia game). He just has a hard time reading me. And as I said earlier... if he was green reading me right off the bat that would prolly worry me. What he's doing right now isn't.

Also not surprised to see my name on your list since you have a tendency to perceive me as scummy. We've talked about this before.

Overall I disagree with a significant chunk of your list but I haven't decided yet if it's likely to come from scum you or not. Talk to me about your town leans. Do you have any?

<3 Nyn

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

Cass, 396 is way too many words for a null read. Why so verbose?

Sooh · May 27, 2015

**snip**

Why wombat and verbal v?

Because I feel like they have both done a good job explaining where they are coming from with their leans so far. Wombat more so than Verb, but I feel good about both of them at the moment. Like #552 is good in terms of explaining how I feel about Wombat.

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

Hey guys! I'm catching up and on Page 14 atm.

I came into this game very differently than I normally do. I have been playing more games and I'm feeling slightly more confident in giving pushes and nudges to get reactions. I get that you're not used to seeing that from me. That could be hard for anyone to get over that I'm playing so differently. However, if you imagine I'm a wolf, would I not do the most to keep posting the way I have been posting every game up until now? Keep my town game as it were? It would be incredibly stupid of me I think to change my game so much as a first time wolf.

Regarding peeks. IF I was seer and choosing a N0 peek, or even just waiting for a random peek, would I post about it the way I did? If I am seer, will I put my peek directly out there or will I try to make it seem concealed? If I am seer, will I talk about this at all?

Now Darthe, and keep in mind that I'm not fully up to speed since I haven't read all the pages yet. It looked to me in the beginning as though he was way too preoccupied with instructing people how to seer, and at the same time it seemed a bit like in the thread seer hunting. It stood out for me, and I'm waiting to read now if that's what AJ meant with his post early on. I also still have to go back to my previous games with Darthe and see if he had an early town read on me there.

Don't like the self-meta or alignment WIFOM in this post.

Cory Caboose · May 27, 2015

Can you bring up some Wombat posts that made you feel that way from before his posts now?

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

Eugh trying to add spaces between squished multi-quotes and causing premature posting. EBWOP.

Got interrupted by dinner after all...

Here's a breakdown of players posting against me thus far:

Darthe

- Push started after I mentioned being more suspicious of him than anyone else thus far and voiced disagreement with his driving early Seer cover even though it's more likely to be inaccurate/more helpful to the wolves;

- Calls my list awful, plants seed that I'm deliberately being TWTBAW - does not question anything he finds suspicious;

- Hinges on the fact that my early leans are different to his and that I haven't provided a 'compensatory' number of town reads/that he can't understand me starting with a base of 'reading more-likely scum', when he knows after discussions in our mentor chat that that is exactly how I work;

- Has a point about my leans positionally and the odds that at least two of them are wrong;

- Calls my notes 'poor reasoning' and 'flimsy' but doesn't question/discuss anything specific.

This is an awful wolf list.

Cass are you attempting to incorperate TWTBAW by chance? If so just use our codeword. It's Clovian Dongonomics if you forgot.

'Awful' because it has you at the top so early on, perchance? You sir, are on my watch list. If it's genuinely awful to you and you are Town, discuss with me why, or just bite me - you pointing out that it's awful without further discussion is still scummy, especially since you're one who has specifically told me it's ok to be 'wrong' sometimes

I do bite, you know?

But truly you used poor reasoning to put four of my town reads into a wolf pile and didn't provide a compensatory number of town reads. Unless you start reading everyone as scum and work your way up (no clue why you would do that) there isn't any reason to have everyone positionally where they are since you know you have to be wrong about at least two of them. Also, I thought the reasons didn't just look flimsy, they looked like you were trying to find a reason to fit those people into those reads.

I could have sworn there was a particular island/country/continent that was awake at just this time.

Australia is FROZEN

Not really relevant, but AustraliaDice is visiting family and AustraliaCass was doing daycare runs/looking after hers. For whatever reason, Darthe WIM against Australia.

Clov

- Votes early

- Doesn't understand my reads, but gives specific reasons why and asks specific questions for more info

[v]Cass[/v]

I don't understand most of those reads at all. I don't see how you can say Darthe has been defending Nyn at all, and I'm not sure you can make a fair case of "distancing" when he's actively trying to get pressure on the slot. Pushing him for seer cover makes no sense to me.

Where has Kaylee been pushy at all? Observant questioning, sure, but I don't see how you can argue that's anti-town.

Hally

Says she doesn't like my reads, wrt to Kaylee. Fair enough, at this point.

Also, I agree with Clov re: Kaylee. Not liking Cass's reads.

AJ

- Votes early

- Simultaneously suggests that my post was 'strikingly similar' to game we wolfed together and calls it strange that I have scum reads on ~accepted greens because I'm not usually 'against the grain'.

[v]Cass[/v]

Pulled some quotes as I was catching up just now, will get them sorted and responded to in time.

Sooh/Cass wagons aren't bad atm, I think.

Having just wolfed with Cass I think that post reads strikingly similar to what I read from her last game. She doesn't really come across to me as an against the grain type so her having 4 scum reads in more or less ~accepted greens is strange.

Cory

- ?Directs suspicion by saying I coast as wolf

- Suggests my wolf posts are 'long, villagery' and 'with no real content'. Here I agree with the second part and strongly disagree with the first. I haven't posted 'long, villagery' WoTs for the past few games - and in all of those I've been scum. No real content as scum I'll give him. Either way I don't see how either of those are particularly relevant here/to that point.

Cass you've been a wolf like the last 4-5 games and I have seen you coast on little blurbs of "villagery content" with no real dedication or commitment to figuring out the game - and nobody pushes you for whatever reason

Just letting you know if you are a wolf here I will not be allowing you to do this for as long as I'm alive

Cass you've been a wolf like the last 4-5 games and I have seen you coast on little blurbs of "villagery content" with no real dedication or commitment to figuring out the game - and nobody pushes you for whatever reason

Just letting you know if you are a wolf here I will not be allowing you to do this for as long as I'm alive

I don't know if it's the timing of this post, or the implication that she posted "villagery content", but I'm really suspicious of this post. The idea is probably basically null for Cory - he can make these town leader posts (I don't really know what to call them, bold is what I'm referring to here) as any alignment - with maybe the slightest hint of town, but this seems completely out of place here.

Don't blame me because you made a post insinuating she's going to skate on villagery content after she made an incredibly sketchy reads list and three people pointed it out.

Wasn't calling her content villagery, was referencing her last like ~5 games where she's post 5-6 times a day and they'd all be "long, villagery posts" IE long WoTs with no real content that people don't bother to read and just say "well she wrote a lot of words, so that's villagery" and continued to ignore her

I haven't even read the post she made yet in an analytical eye, just sort of skimmed over it

I liked Clov's points here. Don't like that Cory references my last ~5 scum games but admits to skimming/makes no effort to read me analytically in this one, despite suggesting that's how he thinks I coast as scum.

TLDR:

Comments/pushes by Darthe, AJ and Cory seem worse than those by Clov and Hally.

FYI, I don't read posts that look like this.

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

As of right now I lean as follows:

Town:

Wombat - Good insight.

Kaylee - Good line of questioning. Observant.

Clov - Soulread mainly. May be way off.

AJ - I like his posts so far, though calling you town makes me scared after the last game when you had me completely duped.

Light town:

Cory - I do like most of your play. Your secret note to AJ pinged me though. Yes, I read it.

Tress - Just a hair above null at the moment.

Cass - I like her reasoning.

Null:

Verb

Leelou

Bewbs

Light scum:

Dice - based on low content and bad vote. My feelings here may be affected by OMGUS. Can't promise to keep this read.

Darthe - call it a soul read if you'd like. I still don't like the feeling of open seer hunt you gave me.

So much for trying to make a stance early...

Anyone around to play with me?

2 soulreads seems kind of a lot for a newish player at this stage. Do you mean gut read?

Verbal32 · May 27, 2015

Can you bring up some Wombat posts that made you feel that way from before his posts now?

I'd like to see this as well - I'm getting the opposite read from Wombat. I have him as slight wolf lean.

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

However, if you imagine I'm a wolf, would I not do the most to keep posting the way I have been posting every game up until now? Keep my town game as it were? It would be incredibly stupid of me I think to change my game so much as a first time wolf.

It's a matter of experience. Someone with little to no experience at being scum could very easily act differently. Why? because he/she knows who's town and who's scum and that affects the way a person plays and come across. It takes a while to manage to emulate your own town game. So yeah... I could see you playing differently as scum. And I don't really care for this defense at all.

I'd like to hear your preliminary reads once you catch up.

Put Bewbs in the town pile.

Sooh · May 27, 2015

Can you bring up some Wombat posts that made you feel that way from before his posts now?

Sure

Something bugs me a bit about AJ taking on the role of the voice of reason regarding seer cover. Could be nothing, could be something. As always, keeping an eye on him.

This may have something to do with my mild scum read on Darthe.

Don't like this. Feels like a bit of a dodge. At this point in the game, why should a mild scum read have any influence on a mechanical/strategy discussion?

Why wouldn't you want to talk to Verb, Lee?

^ broke my sarcasm meter

Why wouldn't you want to talk to Verb, Lee?

I don't always have to be in a pleasant mood with him. That or he didn't brush his teeth.

??? How could you be in a bad mood with me when I've barely posted anything towards you? All I did was insinuate, and it isn't even D1 yet. But somehow this equates to you not wanting to talk to me?

Guess I'll pick up a new meter for Verb too.

I like his comment to AJ here, and I like his light tone. Seems to be commenting on things that stick out to him.

Wombat, what's the problem with *fake* villa-peeking a wolf if you're trying to create cover? Putting out an informed decision eliminates the possibility of it being a random choice. You see the inherent conflict?

Not sure what you mean. Villapeeking a wolf is very -EV for town imo. Either the wolves will assume the person is not the seer and leave him/her alone, or they will kill him/her to SHC themselves. The odds of it working out well for town are very low in those circumstances imo.

Also like this post a lot.

Just probably the best two examples so far that I've seen. I don't know exactly why, but his inquisitiveness makes me feel at ease with him.

Sooh · May 27, 2015

**snip**

2 soulreads seems kind of a lot for a newish player at this stage. Do you mean gut read?

Yes... probably... lol.. I guess I never reflected on the difference.

Andrej · May 27, 2015

I just meant that I haven't seen you really provide anything that I would describe as helping me to read you since you came back in today. Yesterday I felt I was getting more from you... Could you give me some current leans, please?

Verb is my villager peek so that goes without saying. Going off thread I think Nyn is on her villager game and I think Clov is too. Darthe is more likely to be a villager here based solely on numbers despite my suspicion of him earlier. Kaylee seems okay, she's making her observations that are accurate in the moment. I'd probably peek her just to confirm her because I think she's likely to make it deep into the game on the merit of not getting NK'd often in this roster and clearing her would be valuable later on in POE.

Cass might be light green for the moment. I appreciate Cass expounding more on her thoughts to show her perspective which I don't think she'd do as well if she were wolfing again.

Dice had his 'gut read' opener which I think by now I should probably consider more of a neutral movement at this point in our experience together. I'll need more from him. Leelou can fit into this category as well because I haven't seen enough from her to really place her outside of null. Tress would be here as well until she comes back more with her own thoughts.

I'm undecided on you atm. You've said some things that came across weird to me but I think you've made some decent posts as well. The one you talked about people ignoring / defending you as suspect could offer some valuable insight later on if you're a villager here. I agreed with some of your points.

Cory and Wombat I have as hesitant wolf leans for now. I feel like the way Cory is engaging those who suspect him is more in-line with how I would do things as a wolf although I admit that could just be my own personal projection on his play. Wombat is more of hunch I guess. I don't think any of the observations he's made couldn't be done as a wolf and I think there's some potential for distancing between him and Cory happening. Cory's post about them colliding as Mario Kart characters or whatever gave me that impression.

Leelou · May 27, 2015

Why are people slotting me in the vig spot? I haven't really done anything yet, and don't expect much until tomorrow.

Cory Caboose · May 27, 2015

Sooh have you ever played with Wombat before?

He's a very experienced player who's played for a long time and has no trouble with tone or anything like that and is capable of being a pushy wolf

IE nothing in there in me says "Wombat is a villager"

Andrej · May 27, 2015

Sooh have you ever played with Wombat before?

He's a very experienced player who's played for a long time and has no trouble with tone or anything like that and is capable of being a pushy wolf

IE nothing in there in me says "Wombat is a villager"

Basically.

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

Wombat, I don't understand your progression on Kaylee. FTR, I agree with Hallia's assessment of her being town based on her level of involvement and probing. I share that read on her, but I just don't get how your read moves along.

Town lean on Kaylee through p. 6.

Ok, this is pretty clear.

Clov came in and made a joke about the scum team's identity, naming three players that haven't posted yet. You asked him if that was a soulread and then asked if it was a aussie theme. The whole post sounded fake to me and I did not care for it.

Darthe's opinion of how you usually play means squat to me. Other than mentoring you in a game, I don't think we've played together before so my focus is on your play in THIS game. And OMGUS FoSing me for allegedly sheeping Darthe (of all people! lol) is not making you look any better in my eyes. I also find it interesting that I'm getting FoSed but Darthe isn't even though, under your consideration, your content so far doesn't warrant it.

Any other thoughts you have to share?

I like this post of Nyn's.

Dammit -_-

But I don't get this. Why 'dammit'? You have a town read on her, but this implies you're annoyed that you agree with your town read?? Am I missing something?

Never said pushing people is bad form. Just called it ironic as I saw it you did something you called her out for.

Not really that ironic imo. Feels like you're trying to call Sooh a hypocrite with using the word "hypocrite."

I don't read this post as a player interacting with a town read of theirs - I see this as a player poking at another player they potentially find suspicious. Again, correct me if I'm missing something here.

Five pages in and I'm liking Cory, Darthe, and Kaylee for town this game.

Cory and Darthe for their willingness to explain the N0 peeks for the non PoG players.

My peek hasn't checked in yet.

I think we're better served following Tom the Tom's advice and waiting towards EOD to reveal. Players unfamiliar with seer cover may have troubles keeping that consistency through out the Day that wolves can see and cross them out as legit peeks. The less time there is for that, the better.

Think before you claim.

Maybe that pans out more in a long game, I'm not familiar enough to say one way or another with certainty. What I do know is that early peeks are more likely to be wrong which both increases the odds of clearing yourself as not the seer if you're mafia or of you being the seer if you got it right. It's all a strange dichotomy.

I'm confused. Are you saying that it's better to wait? I'm asking because it seems like at first you're disagreeing with AJ, then agree.

The bold sounds like you disagree with him.

Green is sounds like you agree.

Can you please clarify?

Kaylee for this. A wolfie Kaylee does not probe this early, and ask questions. Moving on.

Meh. How is explaining mechanics a town tell?

This is the post I agree with Hallia on - it gave me the exact same read on Kaylee for the exact same reasons. But the 'meh' you post implies you disagree. But then that means you disagree with a player's town read on a player you are town reading. I'm totally lost on your thought process.

Adding Wombat to my townlist. Almost ready to add a certain news anchor to the list because Nyn, but I'm not crazy about Hallia seemingly ignoring everything I said about Nyn beyond my first post.

I c wut u did thar.

Never said pushing people is bad form. Just called it ironic as I saw it you did something you called her out for.

Not really that ironic imo. Feels like you're trying to call Sooh a hypocrite with using the word "hypocrite."

I was basically calling her hypocrite.

BAM. Kaylee town read.

And we come full circle on you town reading Kaylee.....who you already said you're town reading. You make it sound like this is your conclusion, but you started this way.

My problem is everything in between these 2 town-reading posts is you acting like you DON'T read Kaylee as town, though.

???

Town lean does not mean town read. When someone I have a town lean on does something I don't like, I will question it. Kaylee's unapologetic commitment to calling Sooh a hypocrite pushed her into town read territory for me. I think scum would tend to try to hedge on that. And the "dammit" was because I don't like making redundant posts that make me look like an idiot.

Cory Caboose · May 27, 2015

Basically.

Shut up and let me bus my wolfbro, doofus

Andrej · May 27, 2015

Carry on.

Sooh · May 27, 2015

Well oki.. now you've both said you don't trust Wombat yet. Can you give me some hints as to how to read him?

I have played with Wombat a couple of times, and I thought it was difficult playing with him then because he was very low content.

Cory Caboose · May 27, 2015

:rolleyes:

I probably lied about that whole "I'll let you say and think what you want" thing

I can't stop the SNARK even if I try :wub:

WWWwombat · May 27, 2015

I'm reading that differently than you, but I did ask Wombat if I was missing something. If I ignore that post, the rest still stands on its own and I still have issues with it.

You're missing a lot of things.

Cory Caboose · May 27, 2015

Well oki.. now you've both said you don't trust Wombat yet. Can you give me some hints as to how to read him?

https://www.random.org/

He's a Clov

House of Cards

Recommended Posts

Archived

Stay Connected

Forum Topics

News items

About Dragonmount

Twitter

Facebook