A Tale of Middle Earth: Game OVER

[Yates]

Well I think she made a good job of explaining A thought process though said process was based off of a complete stretch read.

Can you give me some examples? Her case is in post 550 and 551. It's numbered so you can just tell me a number and tell me where she went wrong.

[Leelou]

I don't really have an extensive reads list yet, but wanted to get some initial ideas out there. These are ALL subject to change as I look deeper into posts throughout the day. 

 

1. Hally - getting decent feels from her so far

2. Sooh - mentored by Corn - I'd like to actually see what she has to say re: the players in her own words
3. Alot - whiny
4. Alanna - asked to be replaced
5. Dice - decent, not really seeing him slanking 
6. John Snow - asked to be replaced
7. Thane - hasn't done anything significant 
8. Verbal - <3 not creeped out by him, still waiting on your EP ISO, dear
9. Talya - Her posts seem okay, don't really agree with her Sili read
10. Eldrick - for once, not getting scummy vibes. I'm going to watch his voting patterns though 
12. Sili - so far seems on his town game
13. Krak - I keep forgetting he's playing
14. Taborline - nothing here to judge yet
15. Andrej- looking deeper into his posts as I can
16. Alannalynn - seems to be getting tied up in a lot of smaller things, not looking at the rest of the game
17. Tress - can't read her yet
18. Zander - tied up with EP, can be town pending further evidence
19. seph - mentored by Kaylee - meh
20. Eternal Phoenix - seems to be doing his town shtick 
21. TinaHel - getting some townie vibes
22. Yates - looking deeper into his posts as I can
23. Cass/Monstr - Anola Gay - getting okay vibes from Monstr, not so sure about Cass

24. Pizzaguy - looking deeper into his posts today, haven't really read them in detail yet

[Yates]

That post kind of makes my eyes hurt a little. Am I to assume your strongest Town reads are Verb, Sili, Zandr, EP, and Tina?

[Leelou]

That post kind of makes my eyes hurt a little. Am I to assume your strongest Town reads are Verb, Sili, Zandr, EP, and Tina?

 

Yeah, sorry. I know it's skittle puke. I'll arrange my next reads list better, just wanted to get something out there while I had 10 minutes. 

[Andrej]

 

 

The way he postured around Seph and the EP wagons made me uncomfortable then and still does now in light of EP's soft balling and Seph's later profession.

You say "posturing," I say "resolving." *shrug*

He hedged on his read of Zander saying he liked the post but also leaves himself open to possibly move there later.

You say "hedging," I say "RESOLVING." *shrug again*

So tomato/tomahto is your defense here? Okay.

 

 

 

I also think he went over the top complimenting Tina on her posts and I'm curious as to his focus regarding me and my read of her. He also made a comment towards her early on that basically soft balled a town read on her slot. I haven't really decided how I feel about the entire interaction completely but I could see scum!Yates doing this as a pocketing attempt on a town!Tina

Of all the people in this game to pocket, you think I'd pick *TINA?* Does she strike you as someone I could easily pocket given our game history and her style of play? That strikes me a bit like you accusing me of trying to pocket a honey badger. The fact of the matter is that Tina's post was EXACTLY what I needed to see from her to get a good read on her. And she hit that thing out of the park. I have precisely TWO strong Town reads at this moment - Tina and Sili - and I think I made those reads pretty clear.TBH - I would have expected someone to accuse me of buddying Pizza [hi, Sooh/Corn!] given the childish man-crush posts I've lobbed in that direction. And that would have required some explaining but Tina? I think that's a fairly clear READ.

I can't tell you why you do what you do. My best guess? Probably because you hoped to avoid said honey badger by cozying up to her early on. The first time it happened was on like pg 6 or 7 where you lobbed a town read out to her for essentially saying "Zander looks scummy and Sili looks like Sili". Later with the "Omg Tina that was so great. Mega town vibes right now" just felt overdone to me. Like I sort of cringed reading that.

 

Speaking of Pizza I have noticed you guys kind of mentioning each other but not really doing anything. What is your opinion of his last series of posts? Of him in general?

 

 

 

He's done a lot of posturing around some players that were being discussed at the time but I don't get the impression he's really pushing in any direction.

I feel like I had to make this argument to Seph wrt Sili. Not sure why I have to ask YOU the difference between Yates "posturing" and Yates solving the game but help a brother out?

Show me solving. I don't see it. What I see is you sort of floating and nudging wagons (on slots I am leaning villager on) without solidifying your stance.

 

 

 

For instance he talks about having Seph and EP wagons being a good thing but never really drives either of them.

Was I in a position to drive either of those wagons? Pretty sure I was commuting home/making dinner while that drama played out.

That's not at all what I meant and I think you know that. I don't expect you to be here every moment of the day reacting to thinks as they happen. That's just unrealistic and unfair of an expectation of anyone. My point was that you've been around and have taken part of the discussion revolving around them but I don't get the impression you're pushing it anywhere.

 

 

 

For him later to throw a vote on Alot seems too easy and doesn't come with a lot of accountability.

I'm the ONLY person voting for Alot. Pretty sure that's why you are trying to characterize it as a throw away vote. How am I NOT accountable for the only vote on someone? A "no accountability" vote is sheeping onto a big wagon and saying "yeah - I agree with everyone else on this wagon" not being the only person on one. Step it up, son.

It's a no accountability vote because you're voting a dude for not doing anything and who probably isn't going to be doing anything anytime soon. What purpose do you really think your singular vote is going to do? It's almost like a place holder.

 

On the topic of big wagons to sheep on, do you see any of them here? No? I didn't think so either so that point is pretty moot imo. You've expressed opinions on several of the players getting votes, going as far to call one a lock wolf and approving of the other wagons without ever putting your vote down to support what you thought were good directions to move. To end up on Alot just smacks of fakeness to me.

[Yates]

@AJ - did you follow along in the Champions game? Or were you just looking for your shout out?

 

Maybe curiosity maybe important question to answer...

[Andrej]

I started at the beginning of the game but ended up skipping ahead before EOD1, not too long after Pizza made his grandious entrance actually. I didn't actually start to follow it in earnest until around the later part of the game when you had the Cop CC battle going on.

[Andrej]

 

 

The question was for Hallia but I guess she's gone now.

Yes, Yates. I've been rolling the idea around in my head most of the day that he could be scum here. It's a little hard to articulate but I am just getting bad vibes from him. Usually by now I think I would feel reasonably okay about him if he were a villager considering the amount of content he has. The fact that I don't worries me. There's some things he's done that trouble me and I feel like since I am shoring up on some of my villager reads and he is left out of them this is a positive direction for me to move in.

For instance, I wasn't particularly fond of the way he reacted to Sooh voting him earlier. The way he postured around Seph and the EP wagons made me uncomfortable then and still does now in light of EP's soft balling and Seph's later profession. He hedged on his read of Zander saying he liked the post but also leaves himself open to possibly move there later. I also think he went over the top complimenting Tina on her posts and I'm curious as to his focus regarding me and my read of her. He also made a comment towards her early on that basically soft balled a town read on her slot. I haven't really decided how I feel about the entire interaction completely but I could see scum!Yates doing this as a pocketing attempt on a town!Tina

 

 

 

Oh, and the throw away vote on Alot that I forgot to mention. He's done a lot of posturing around some players that were being discussed at the time but I don't get the impression he's really pushing in any direction. For instance he talks about having Seph and EP wagons being a good thing but never really drives either of them. For him later to throw a vote on Alot seems too easy and doesn't come with a lot of accountability.

 

 

 

I've noted/been considering most of the same points WRT Yates. Subjectively though, neither of you are coming across as convincingly Town to me. This should be interesting to watch...

I may suggest you defer to your other head to get a better read on me then.

 

Where is he btw?

[Yates]

So tomato/tomahto is your defense here? Okay.

The problem with this argument is your assertion that there's anything there to "defend." I will agree that you are certainly attempting to "SPIN" the facts to fit your narrative.

 

This is me offering YOU an E-tool. You will either recognize the process or you will double down on your spin. I don't really care because at some point you will be the one answering for this.

 

I can't tell you why you do what you do.

 

Like I sort of cringed reading that.

I can't tell you why you do what you do. Instead of dodging the issue above, why don't you take a step back and take a look at the actual situation? Like... I have already asked Zander to do this since it centers on him but I offer you the same opportunity. Take a look at Tina's post 550 and 551 and tell me what is NOT villagery about it.

 

Speaking of Pizza I have noticed you guys kind of mentioning each other but not really doing anything. What is your opinion of his last series of posts? Of him in general?

He isn't playing with me. And it's making me sad.

 

Show me solving. I don't see it.

Then that's a YOU problem.

 

That's not at all what I meant and I think you know that. I don't expect you to be here every moment of the day reacting to thinks as they happen. That's just unrealistic and unfair of an expectation of anyone. My point was that you've been around and have taken part of the discussion revolving around them but I don't get the impression you're pushing it anywhere.

I agree that your accusation felt unfair. You are asking me why I'm not driving the bus. I tell you because I'm on my break and someone else has already left the station with the bus. Now you are saying I should be taking over the bus driving duties? In what universe does that make sense? I'm asking the questions *I* need answered to make my reads on both the targets and the drivers. You don't see me "pushing" it anywhere because that's not my job. My job is to make reads. And that process is incomplete.

 

I could, frankly, say the same about you. This is the first attempt you seem to have made to actually make a serious case on someone. You haven't made a single observation this game that can't come from TMI AJ.

 

It's a no accountability vote because you're voting a dude for not doing anything and who probably isn't going to be doing anything anytime soon. What purpose do you really think your singular vote is going to do? It's almost like a place holder.

Guess we'll see, won't we?

 

On the topic of big wagons to sheep on, do you see any of them here? No? I didn't think so either so that point is pretty moot imo.

How does our current lack of large wagons in any way inform my opinion that you are making stuff up with regards to your assertion that a solitary vote less than 1/2 way through the game day is somehow a throw away vote? That's an amateurish statement that has precisely zero basis in evidentiary reality. Feel free to go back through however many games you would like to see what percentage of slanker votes/activity prod votes were made by scum versus Town. I'd wait but I don't think you even need to go through that process to recognize that it is MORE OFTEN THAN NOT a vote by Town. So the fundamental premise of your argument seems fabricated wrt this point. That's the only "fakeness" I see in this argument.

[Verbal32]

So EP is probably town.

[Yates]

I started at the beginning of the game but ended up skipping ahead before EOD1, not too long after Pizza made his grandious entrance actually. I didn't actually start to follow it in earnest until around the later part of the game when you had the Cop CC battle going on.

Meh. Not as helpful as I was hoping. I feel like this is an easy enough conclusion to arrive at:

-he has similar enough tone and way of making reads to the champions game that i wasn't going to fos him yet.

And I feel like the people in this game that should recognize this fact are you, Pizza, Sili, Cory, Sooh, Seph, Cass, and Tress. Maybe Verb but Verb thought I was scum in that game so I don't think he was actually reading... But that's 7 slots worth of Town reads and two of those seven are voting for me. I'm not sure what to make of that.

[Yates]

So EP is probably town.

[Leelou]

So EP is probably town.

 

Yates?

[Zander?]

7. Then Zander enters with a quick vote, without reason. It totally looks like a bandwagon vote. For ones he doesn´t give a reason and second he doesn´t comment on anyone else.

 

Zander, on 10 May 2015 - 3:12 PM, said:

Sooh even though you gave a reasom for your voting...i dont like it...

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Hello and Happy Mother's Day to all the mother's here!!

 

8. I was wrong. I was not the first one to point it out. Sili posted a smiley at it. 

 

Sili Quirrels, on 10 May 2015 - 3:33 PM, said:

 

Zander, on 10 May 2015 - 3:12 PM, said:

Sooh even though you gave a reasom for your voting...i dont like it...

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Hello and Happy Mother's Day to all the mother's here!!

 

 

9. But then I got on and posted why I didn´t like his post. Then I leaved. 

 

TinaHel, on 10 May 2015 - 4:59 PM, said:

 

Zander, on 10 May 2015 - 3:12 PM, said:

Sooh even though you gave a reasom for your voting...i dont like it...

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Hello and Happy Mother's Day to all the mother's here!!

 

This vote doesn´t look good. You are voting the person that has been talked about lately but not stating a real reason. 

 

 

10. Here I don´t get an explanation. It´s because of a feeling. 

 

Zander, on 10 May 2015 - 8:17 PM, said:

 

TinaHel, on 10 May 2015 - 4:59 PM, said:

 

Zander, on 10 May 2015 - 3:12 PM, said:

Sooh even though you gave a reasom for your voting...i dont like it...

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Hello and Happy Mother's Day to all the mother's here!!

 

This vote doesn´t look good. You are voting the person that has been talked about lately but not stating a real reason. 

 

 

its a feeling hence why i said i didnt like it,  its early and things can change.  not gonna fret or worry about throwing my vote out to my gut feel this early in the game.

 

1st Bold- please remember the 1st part.  2nd is it not ok to focus on one person at a time or the first you start to get a read on?  WEAK imo.

 

2nd Bold- please remember the 1st part of 1st Bold answer.

 

3rd Bold- please see above...see a pattern forming here?

 

4th Bold- Gut reads are better then no reads imo.

 

 

 

11. Sili questions him.

 

SNIP

 

12. And votes him

 

 

13. EP defends Zander. I didn´t notice it when I read it before but I did now. 

 

Eternal Phoenix, on 10 May 2015 - 9:25 PM, said:

 

Sili Quirrels, on 10 May 2015 - 9:23 PM, said:

I may as well vote you if you're not inclined to communicate your gut feels.

 

Vote: Zander

sometimes a gut feeling is just that. How do you make a case out of a gut feeling?

 

 

Someone else explaining my response.  first she "missed it" then includes this part in when making her case.  rings to me like an oops my bad....kinda answer.

 

14. This is the post that I wanted to quote but never did. I like Sili´s reason and I wanted to +1 it.

 

Oh yeah another oops my bad....

 

Quoting Tina here:

 

Then later I got on and voted Zander. By then Pizza had said that he would vote Zander but never did it. 

 

 

 

As I said, I don´t like Zander´s "it´s so easy to vote me" defence isn´t very good. I still think that it looked like an easy bandwagon vote from the start and that was my reason for voting him (+ agreeing with Sili)."

 

End Quote

 

 

See a pattern here? she states my vote was a bandwagon vote.  though shes follows Silis vote and Pizza's comments/poss voting me (which he did but i havent checked to see whose was 1st though if need be i wiil.) 

 

Like I said....Stretching and contradictions and backtracking.  seems very untowny imo.

 

Weak

 

PS- Sorry cant multiquote had to chop n paste...

[Yates]

Sorry, Zander, but that quoting actually kind of made a mess of things. Let me see if I can sort out what you are saying...

[Yates]

So your first problem is what? You think she's accusing you of bandwagon voting while bandwagon voting you?

[Yates]

I've got a lunch date in 11 minutes so if we don't finish up can we wrap this up in 30 or 40 minutes?

[Leelou]

Yates, are you always this helpful with leading horses to water? 

[Yates]

Yates, are you always this helpful with leading horses to water?

Not always. But I feel like some horses need it. New horses more than some. You probably remember me doing this with my boy Thane back in the day.

[Andrej]

 

 

Let's dance then, Dusty.

Okay but I should warn you; I've seen "

" at least once.

It struck me as careless and kind of sloppy. Like I said, if she was going to use someone else's words to +1 and then vote, I would think she would've chosen the right ones. She basically HAD to correct herself in that situation so I don't think that point really stands. Not all scum are going to be super clean and sharp, and to me my initial reaction was that she legit bumbled trying to jump on an easy wagon. The fact that I had for some reason imagined more votes being on Zander due to the amount he'd been mentioned didn't help.

So paint me a picture. If Tina Scum is hopping on a wagon for bad reasons, why does she HAVE to correct herself? Look at the timing, if nothing else:She makes her post an vote at 05:15 here.If you look at that post you will see that she says she likes a post and agrees with a post that makes no sense in context. And that's in a multiquote post. I think the fact this was a multiquote post is why I'm more inclined to believe it was a quote fail/copypasta error than not.She looks at her post after hitting submit. See's the fail. And less than 2 minutes later says "oops, quoted the wrong Sili post."And two minutes later she posts her corrected post at 05:20 here.So some items of note:1. *IT'S 05:20 IN THE AM!* Who would even be awake at that time as a potential scum partner to tell Tina she messed up? [as it turns out - only Sili and maybe Eldrick]2. There were ZERO POSTS between her vote post, her oops post, and her correction post. Those three posts were consecutive. It's not like someone responded in thread to apply pressure or direct attention to her weak quote. She quite OBVIOUSLY recognized it on her own.Could Tina be scum? I guess. But it wont be because she fumbled a Sili quote. And at least you know she wouldn't be with Zander or - likely - Sili.I think the better indicator for me is post 550. Even if she's ultimately wrong about Zander, that is such a villagery process that I don't know she duplicates that as scum. The only fly in the ointment, here, is something I alluded to earlier. In multiball scum ALSO have to find scum. So I *guess* this could be scum team A Tina following a village process to try to find scum team B Zander - but I don't *think* it is. I just don't.

I think this discussion is sort of pointless at this junction because I'm not particularly interested in Tina any longer but I will entertain you nonetheless and respond.

 

I get the impression here that you're saying because Tina corrected herself that it makes her look more townie? The fact that she corrected herself was never a part of my opinion on it. Like I said, she pretty much HAD to in that case or else face some serious wtf moments from people when they read it. Her correcting herself is entirely null imo. Everyone probably or at least should proof read their posts. She caught the mistake and fixed it immediately, I'm cool with that but it's not at all alignment indicative.

 

As far as her later development goes, yeah we agree on that. The rest is not stuff I'm looking to get into until a later stage of the game so your speculation there is a bit unnecessary to me.

 

Is that you "solving" again?

[Zander?]

So your first problem is what? You think she's accusing you of bandwagon voting while bandwagon voting you?

im not a fan of things that seem like contradictions to me and it seems like a contradiction.  and the fact she has a problem with me voting on a gut read early on D1.

[Yates]

I get the impression here that you're saying because Tina corrected herself that it makes her look more townie?

??

 

No? Her CASE made her look Townie.

 

I'm saying the fact she corrected herself didn't make her more scummy; an assertion YOU were making.

 

The fact that she corrected herself was never a part of my opinion on it. Like I said, she pretty much HAD to in that case or else face some serious wtf moments from people when they read it. Her correcting herself is entirely null imo. Everyone probably or at least should proof read their posts.

LOL - That's not the impression you leave when you say this:[quote name="Andrej" post="3465750" timestamp="1431438004"]It struck me as careless and kind of sloppy. Like I said, if she was going to use someone else's words to +1 and then vote, I would think she would've chosen the right ones.

You make it sound like you would expect TOWN Tina to make sure she quoted properly and thus the fact that she didn't quote properly was informing your scum lean on her.

 

Is that you "solving" again?

Yup. Seeing how she developed that read and recognizing it as coming from a Town mindset is me "solving." Also, recognizing what some of this meant wrt Sili's alignment in context is more of me "solving."

[Yates]

See? ANYONE can make quote fails. I don't typically preview either and end up with stuff like the above. It's not the first time and it won't be the last...

[Gabriel Kross]

@ cass  im with Tress on remembering EP play. I saw him mostly as town but he tended to be like a more annoying FullDarthe. Big schemes that never worked. Im not sure if i ever saw him as mafia. definetly cant remember it

 

im being wary with EP cause he is in both my current games and i think he is kinda melding together in my head

 

double the EP double the fun!

Morning! I have to write a document this morning, but is there anyone in particular I should look at when I take some breaks?

I'd like you to look at Yates

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zander's vote was the first non joke vote on Sooh right? How can it be a bandwagon vote as a first vote?

[Leelou]

 

Morning! I have to write a document this morning, but is there anyone in particular I should look at when I take some breaks?

I'd like you to look at Yates

 

I'm on the second page of his posts, progressing as I can.