A Tale of Middle Earth: Game OVER

[Andrej]

-snip-

 

I started doing a list based off of where I am with anecdotes, but I'm out of time for that as my roommate wants to go in a few minutes so here's this, which is more gutreads based on my memories and notes but it's better than nothing. Once I actually go through and look at the posts referenced in notes it'll be a little more precise and may shift a bit

 

Firebird

Sooh

Talya

Eldrick

Krak

Leelou

Tina

 

Alot

Thane

Taborline

 

Cass/Monstr

dice

Pizza

seph

Yates.2

AlannaLynn

 

Aj

Verbal

Hallia

 

 

I've not liked Pizza for a lot of the game, but a lot of it was weird feeling from his posts. There have been posts I've definitely not liked about Verbal, plus I feel like he's been in the middle of some thicker tangles, and so we could learn a bit more based on how he flips. I don't like either of them, but I feel like Verbal is the better option from where I stand.

 

[Vote]Verbal[/Vote]

 

Forced post here imo. You were probably better off just not voting in this situation than trying to poorly justify why you were going to. You basically outed yourself by doing this.

 

Also could you explain why you have Krak in green here, but in the next post where you make an updated list with no posts from him in between, he has shifted back to null?

 

All of the random things that stuck out to me and I took notes on as I sped through the game in no particular order within category

 

 

 

 

Cass/Monstr—a lot of asking questions of others or posting that they are catching up. A bit of back and forth with Leelou. Sees connections between Leelou and Tina. I didn’t note a specific thread, but I felt like I saw some WIFOM at a few points. There’s been a bit of Cass vs. Aj as well. I have a weird feeling about them at this point. Will need to ISO but leaning mafia

 

Pizza—he has been bugging me this whole game. A lot of “well, if I was the mafia, this is how I’d be playing, but I’m obviously not the mafia because I’m not doing that”—that sort of process just always come across as scummy to me. He also comes across as one of those people that just pulls elaborate schemes, and this claim of his seems like one of those to me. What would you do if you were the mafia? Claim something so powerful that everyone else would be afraid to lynch you! He’s been doing a lot of drawing connections and looking at people and all of that good stuff, but I just feel really really really weird about him and I cannot put my finger on why. Have almost as strong of a gut feeling about him as I do about Aj, which is strange as they’ve been at each other a bit (a cover? separate mafia teams?). If I had actually been caught up when I voted in the gladiator, I would have voted differently. Pizza was bugging me more and more, and I’m not sure I buy his claim, and Verbal was seeming more and more town to me there at the end Unfortunately, I wasn’t there, and we move forward from here. 

 

Alot—barely posted for a while. When he did post, they felt really strange to me; 1756 (for a reason I can’t quite put my finger on) and 2355 (because it seemed very lazy and like he doesn’t care about where his vote goes now when earlier he said he wanted his vote to make a difference) pinged me. The quick-change vote from Thane to Verbal in 2079/2080 with no explanation was also suspicious. We haven’t seen much from him but I haven’t liked what we’ve seen

 

Aj—has asked a lot of questions, expanding and clarifying, led the attack on Yates (738,741 and 742 are the posts mentioned in my notes—not looking back at them specifically at the moment). Said that Talya, Eldricks Alot’s posts had “good content” (I do’nd think A lot had posted much at that point) and didn’t like Krak. Giving thoughts thorughout, didn’t like the Leelou lynch. Says it was waste to look at either Verbal or Pizza as if either of them were scum, and then looked at the vote train on Verbal. A lot of various people haven’t liked Aj throughout time, and there have been a lot of posts I haven’t liked either—will ISO for specifics later—didn’t note them all but I remember noticing. This combined with the very strong gut feeling I have makes me feel he is scum.

 

Alannalynn—has been commenting on things here and there throughout the thread, occasionally springing in her own thoughts. Doesn’t like Hallia, and doesn’t like Sooh’s vote of dice. Voted Verbal. Would like a little more thoughts throughout the thread, not just random thoughts on things here and there. Something about this posting style from her seems scummy to me (though I think I’ve only ever played a half of a mafia game with her before…). Idk something feels weird. Will ISO, slight scum read

 

Hallia—has done a lot of popping in, giving a couple of thoughts, for a while was more recapping than anything else, and a few posts (like 2390) have felt forced. Guilty until proven innocent; she’s not necessarily scum, but I see very little reason to believe she’s town either

 

dice-early on he didn’t like Tina, later he votes soon for seeming inconsistent, he believed both in the gladiator were town but decided that pizza would be more valuable. Sooh doesn’t like him and I haven’t really noted much else—will have to ISO for more valid reasons; he was bacon red earlier based more off of gut feeling than anything else (btw, the green, dark red and light red are making me crave a BLT)

 

Thane—Yates pulled the little thing with a fake read and saw either him or Hallia as scum, in Pizza’s version, Thane is one of the towns. I find it interesting that he was included in both of these, though I don’t know what this indicates yet. A lot of people seem to think he is pretty good with town. I didn’t like the self vote. He’s been against pizza for a while, and didn’t seem entirely sold on his claim. Going to need to do an ISO on him as well; I sort of see him as scum at this point but it’s more gut than anything valid.

 

Krak—I liked him early on, has given reads sporadically though out, saw Sili as town early on. Other people have had various opinions on him, but don’t see any of those noted in my notes and don’t recall any of them specifically. Pegged him as town more based off of gut things than anything else. Need to ISO

 

Taborline—seems uncomfortable; don’t know if that’s the size of the game in general or if she has a role that she’s uncomfortable with. Has been giving more input lately, but has still been sporadic. Need to hear more from her—care to give us a reads list hun? Don’t let being afraid of making mistakes keep you from playing; it’s far more fun and far less suspicious to try :) 

 

Yates.2—came back in cranky which I don’t think did town much good, was making a point out of how his opinions hadn’t changed, really pushed verbal right after sili died, claimed a peek at someone (which a few people jumped at—said either Hallia or Thane was guilty) and then said he’d been lying. Seems to live Verb more than he had before on page 110, pulled another little scheme in which he said pizza had claimed VT, says Aj is scum, and then did the whole meta on the mod that was targeted on me and others.

One of those people who pulls all of these wild things and a lot of people have trouble reading. I’m leaning towards town at this moment; while he doesn’t appear to be actually trying to help town or fish out mafia (which what I was basing my prior opinion off of), he has a nonchalance that seems town to me atm. 

 

Talya—good about looking at specific people one at a time and giving reads on them in a manner that’s sort of popping in every now and then. There’s been a couple of times she’s kind of seems strange to me, but she also seems to be genuinely trying to look at people and draw connections; making a note here of in 2370 when she’s looking closer at Aj she links Aj and Sooh for both saying Pizza is being self-centered—that one was reaching slightly. Will put her as town now, may ISO later.

 

Sooh—I’m actually feeling very towny about her. I don’t think she’s been right all of the time, but I do feel like she is trying to read correctly, and is not entirely making the game her own yet, and that uncertainty seems scummy to some people. I think the stuff at EoD yesterday was just chance; many people point out incorrect vote counts and I feel like that happenstance was jumped on—I want to say it was by seph…

 

Eldrick—did a lot of popping in with random thoughts for a while when he more commented on other people’s thoughts than giving his own. Has been noticing some inconsistencies and defending himself pretty well, and also coming up with many theories about what could be happening. Other people’s opinions on him over time have been all over the place. He seems town to me

 

Leelou—claimed double vote—people have been linking Leelou a lot in this game, particularly in regards to Verbal and Tina. Tina has outright said that she’s defending Leelou. Verbal and Leelou were together a lot at first, and Leelou got annoyed at that (that section read to me as annoyed Leelou, not mafia Leelou. Could be both, but I didn’t see it that). Been breaking apart a lot of arguments and looking at them closely, and wasn’t totally sold on Pizza. Seems pretty town to me

 

seph—being mentored by Kaylee, has done a lot of different casing of people and given a lot of different reasons that I’ve taken note of throughout the time. Has given a lot of his opinions. appears to believe Pizza. Have a slight town read on him right now.

 

Firebird—claim Mason with Zander—out of curiosity because I don’t remember noticing it, but did Zander ever confirm Firebird as his partner?—Is fairly cleared at this point (would be a really lucky claim otherwise) and has been playing very much like himself throughout time. A lot of looking at people’s posts, being… Well Firebird, and sometimes filling up space just to fill up space and try to have good credit with everyone else. 

 

TinaHel—has been giving a lot of opinions and stuff right from the beginning. Didn’t like Zander’s easy target defense, looking at connections between people and also breaking apart posts by others. as admitted to protecting Leelou as she sees her as solid town, did just pile on Verbal at the end but admitted to being tired. I see her as town right now; her play has been good

 

 

 

 

 

Further question:

 

What is a Chinese fire drill in regards to mafia?

 

 

 

Also, I plan to closely look at anyone I have a town read on. People are guilty until proven innocent in this game >.>

 

For some reason this post lost all the colors, but whatever. I can't decide whether the last line there is something you said because it's genuine paranoia or because at this point you want to remove fluid enough to jump onto any wagon after you very purposely 'look more closely' on said hypothetical lead wagon.

 

A CFD refers to a group of players all moving their vote together onto a new target, changing the lead wagon or starting up a new one. It can be pretty fun but creates a rather stressful/confusing/crazy EOD in hybrid games like this.

 

After reading this post over again, you used the word 'gut' to justify your reads exactly 9 times on about as many players. For someone who just subbed in and has read over the thread with fresh eyes I would think you'd be better able to explain your reads.

 

I also think your read on Tayla implicates you if she's a wolf. The little bit about 'may need to ISO her later' even though you have her in your town reads is a give away imo.

 

When I say I wasn't "there" and that he was seeming more town at the end, I meant the part that I hadn't read yet. I was voting from a behind place, and so I wasn't "there" for all of the recent happenings.

 

If I had been caught up, I would have voted differently, but I wasn't going to be able to catch up any more before the phase ended. I shouldn't have voted at all, and I can see that in hindsight. In the moment, however, I was frustrated by my own lack of participation in the game and felt like I should not miss voting in another phase simply because of my absence up until then. Was kind of a rash angry impulse that I HAD TO VOTE SOMETHING *rage*. It was wrong, and my vote was wrong.

 

I hadn't liked Verbal or Pizza. At the time, Verbal had seemed more scummy to me. After I caught up, Verbal started to seem more towny, and Pizza just got worse, but unfortunately my vote was made with incomplete information--something that will not be happening from here on out

 

 

 

Darthe stop spreading all sorts of nasty rumors about me! I do not eat my friends or choose food over them. He bought my food *pout*

 

Could you provide some specific examples of where the bolded and underlined comes from?

[Andrej]

Why do you say the mafia is probably equal to townies now? I'm guessing 6 total mafia between the teams due to 1/4 balance. There are 19 people left. That's 6 maf and 13 non-maf (some of which are probably indy).

 

Because they probably are.

 

Multi-ball games can't really be balanced like a normal game with the typical ~25% ratio because the risk of mafia teams crossing firing at Night greatly reduces their chances of winning in smaller numbers. We started with 24 and considering some of the roles we have seen flip/been claimed I think we're dealing more with something more like two teams of 4, which puts the total to 8/24. 33% percent makes more sense here considering there's opposing factions but keeps the overall ratio low enough that the game is still winnable for town.

 

You could probably ask Tayla about it, though.

 

Notice how she has me and three others all in her reds? Yeah... she's searching for the other four wolves.

[Andrej]

 

I sort of feel at this point that the speculation regarding Verb or Pizza's alignment here is wolfy.

 

We are most likely losing a townie regardless of who gets lynched in the morning so I think those who continue to talk about the two slots as if they could be scum are putting up a front.

 

What it really comes down to is which we think can be more helpful to town in the long run. Even in the event that Pizza is lying here he won't last for long because his double actions should be able to produce results and quickly. Without those results the noose will be waiting, to say the least.

 

I disagree, I think it's entirely important for us to try and figure out who, if anybody, is scum here (and in every circumstance), given that that's the main purpose of the game. I feel like you discouraging such talk/investigation is wolfy in itself. 

 

Assuming they are both Townies, your last paragraph makes sense but is somewhat contradictory to your previous post. In the last one you suggested Verb would have to be lynched because going into D3 with Pizzas's claimed role and peeks would be 'pretty big', here you downplay that same role, suggesting Pizza won't last long either way. Correct me if I've misinterpreted here, but it seems like in the same post you're trying to discourage talk about who could be Wolfy and suggest that Town take out a possible strong JOAT role...

 

At the point that I posted that I felt that it was pretty obvious we were going to lynch a villager either way. Don't fault me for saying that - just read the game and the posts made by both players in that situation. It was apparent to me, which is why I state that we needed to decide who would be the best to keep alive moving forward. I felt that continuing the discussion about which of them 'could' be a wolf was probably fake from some of you. You'd fall into that category btw. 

 

Obviously even the wolves agreed with me because Verb was lynched by a landslide. But to be fair, they were probably shook after Pizza's claim and knew any real push in that direction was basically an outing offense.

 

I wasn't downplaying the role at all. One way or the other I doubt Pizza makes it to end game. If he's telling the truth the wolves can't afford to keep him alive. If he was lying to save his skin, well, the role he claimed should be able to produce notable results because of the abilities that are tangible and can be proven as the game goes further. Without those results the truth of the claim becomes less so.

[Gabriel Kross]

I fully expect Pizza to be protected tonight. Either by himself, or by some other means. Will the scum teams be ballsy enough to kill one of his peeks, and prove that he is telling the truth?

That actually doesn't prove anything to be honest look at it this way:

Pizza lies his peeks could be town, but could also be mafia

Pizza tells the truth then they are town

So just because a "confirmed" townie is killed doesn't mean Pizza is cleared

 

Odds are I'm the likely target tonight I've been the only truely confirmed town in this game in the morning Halia and Tina need to be looked at hard. One if not both are likely mafia. Heart is possibly mafia, maybe Talya as well. Still don't trust Leelou and Sooh has been coasting since Yates called her out. so in list format the people you should start hammering down on are as follows:

 

Hallia

Tina

Heart

Talya

Leelou

Sooh

Tabesomething? (added her in because she's posted so little content I don't even know what her name is.

[Andrej]

 

Why do you say the mafia is probably equal to townies now? I'm guessing 6 total mafia between the teams due to 1/4 balance. There are 19 people left. That's 6 maf and 13 non-maf (some of which are probably indy).

 

I can't remember who said this, but it was stuck in my head. I want to say it was AJ.

 

Wasn't me. I haven't speculated much on the set up this game but I did a little research on  multi-ball games to get a better understanding of it because I get the impression with the high number of town deaths without any wolves gone this one is going to quickly get out of reach unless some notable NAs occur.

[alannalynn]

 

I sort of feel at this point that the speculation regarding Verb or Pizza's alignment here is wolfy.

 

We are most likely losing a townie regardless of who gets lynched in the morning so I think those who continue to talk about the two slots as if they could be scum are putting up a front.

 

What it really comes down to is which we think can be more helpful to town in the long run. Even in the event that Pizza is lying here he won't last for long because his double actions should be able to produce results and quickly. Without those results the noose will be waiting, to say the least.

 

I disagree, I think it's entirely important for us to try and figure out who, if anybody, is scum here (and in every circumstance), given that that's the main purpose of the game. I feel like you discouraging such talk/investigation is wolfy in itself. 

 

Assuming they are both Townies, your last paragraph makes sense but is somewhat contradictory to your previous post. In the last one you suggested Verb would have to be lynched because going into D3 with Pizzas's claimed role and peeks would be 'pretty big', here you downplay that same role, suggesting Pizza won't last long either way. Correct me if I've misinterpreted here, but it seems like in the same post you're trying to discourage talk about who could be Wolfy and suggest that Town take out a possible strong JOAT role...

 

I agree with Cass in bold here... and your post came off as particularly scummy to me Andrej, especially the top line. How is any speculation on an either/or decision scummy in any way? I think it was especially important to weigh the alternatives and potential that Pizza actually is scum, even now. I think that the only reason Pizza won this match was because of how powerful his role is for town. But there is still the potential that he is scum or VT and it's all bull. (Same with Yates2-- why are we still assuming he's town? which is what I believe a lot of people are doing, btw- he's smart enough not to change his leans and play the same game [though bitter]) The point is, while we may find out that Pizza is scum/vt in the long run, right now we have two "confirmed town" roles. I think this is extremely dangerous in the event that Pizza is actually scum OR VT because then we have to take their alignment into question.

 

So, tell me again why you think speculating their alignments is "wolfy"?

 

tl;dr Andrej thinks us discussing alignments in the gladiator battle is scummy because that shouldn't matter in our decision and that's not how you play the game.

 

Laine. 

I still don't think I understand WHY.

 

Hallia

+1

 

 

Leelou, care to explain what about my few posts has pinged you thus far?

 

Well for one thing...your vote on VERB when clearly you hadn't caught up on the thread and wow...PIZZA is one of your scum reads. Care to explain exactly why you voted off Verb over Pizza in the gladiator challenge? 

 

Good catch here, and I don't think I particularly like her response either. If I remember correctly, AH wasn't even caught up in thread at this point and her throwing out gut scum reads on her list was ridiculous (esp since she wasn't able to take into account recent claims and developments). I don't think you should have ever voted without being completely informed.

 

So I just read over what AJ has said, and my read on him hasn't changed. He is trying to solve the game, and doesn't seem to be tunneling anyone. I have agreed with what he has said. It all makes sense to me. It feels like he's coming from a town perspective.

 

Can the people that feel otherwise please address why they feel this way?

I feel like you've been very wishy-washy this game. Putting out your case on Verbal, taking it back, then saying you're surprised that people jumped on it like they did; speculation on Verbal being 3rd party and winning the battles was a win condition (?), admitting you have no scum reads thus far in the game, because it's too big, and now defending AJ who is pretty much determined scum by a lot of people in the game at this point.

 

Are you not reading? Are you just skimming? I'm curious to know.

[Eldrick4221]

 

Why do you say the mafia is probably equal to townies now? I'm guessing 6 total mafia between the teams due to 1/4 balance. There are 19 people left. That's 6 maf and 13 non-maf (some of which are probably indy).

 

Because they probably are.

 

Multi-ball games can't really be balanced like a normal game with the typical ~25% ratio because the risk of mafia teams crossing firing at Night greatly reduces their chances of winning in smaller numbers. We started with 24 and considering some of the roles we have seen flip/been claimed I think we're dealing more with something more like two teams of 4, which puts the total to 8/24. 33% percent makes more sense here considering there's opposing factions but keeps the overall ratio low enough that the game is still winnable for town.

 

You could probably ask Tayla about it, though.

 

Notice how she has me and three others all in her reds? Yeah... she's searching for the other four wolves.

 

I don't see why you aren't including her orange list in this.

[alannalynn]

I didn't realize you'd responded to this, I snipped because it's already quoted in my post above.

 

 

/snip

 
/snip

 

At the point that I posted that I felt that it was pretty obvious we were going to lynch a villager either way. Don't fault me for saying that - just read the game and the posts made by both players in that situation. It was apparent to me, which is why I state that we needed to decide who would be the best to keep alive moving forward. I felt that continuing the discussion about which of them 'could' be a wolf was probably fake from some of you. You'd fall into that category btw. 

 

Obviously even the wolves agreed with me because Verb was lynched by a landslide. But to be fair, they were probably shook after Pizza's claim and knew any real push in that direction was basically an outing offense.

 

I wasn't downplaying the role at all. One way or the other I doubt Pizza makes it to end game. If he's telling the truth the wolves can't afford to keep him alive. If he was lying to save his skin, well, the role he claimed should be able to produce notable results because of the abilities that are tangible and can be proven as the game goes further. Without those results the truth of the claim becomes less so.

I really don't think you can call that discussion "fake"-- at that point, Pizza would have had to claim something which would ensure his survival and I'm sure he's smart enough to do so. IF mafia, he survived, will be outted, and will have two players (possibly town) linked to him. IF town and vt, he probably did it because he believes in his reads (which may or may not be true). IF he's 100% telling the truth, then awesome, we have a really helpful role on our side. I'm not really trying to call Pizza into question here (innocent until proven guilty), but anyone would have claimed SOMETHING in that situation... MY problem is that YOU were discouraging conversation on account of it being wolfy.

 

 

I fully expect Pizza to be protected tonight. Either by himself, or by some other means. Will the scum teams be ballsy enough to kill one of his peeks, and prove that he is telling the truth?

That actually doesn't prove anything to be honest look at it this way:

Pizza lies his peeks could be town, but could also be mafia

Pizza tells the truth then they are town

So just because a "confirmed" townie is killed doesn't mean Pizza is cleared

 

Odds are I'm the likely target tonight I've been the only truely confirmed town in this game in the morning Halia and Tina need to be looked at hard. One if not both are likely mafia. Heart is possibly mafia, maybe Talya as well. Still don't trust Leelou and Sooh has been coasting since Yates called her out. so in list format the people you should start hammering down on are as follows:

 

Hallia

Tina

Heart

Talya

Leelou

Sooh

Tabesomething? (added her in because she's posted so little content I don't even know what her name is.

 

I agree with this whole post. Particularly Hallia, Talya, Heart, and Sooh.

[alannalynn]

Also, if I continue after this game to refer to people as villager and wolf as opposed to town and scum/mafia, I'm blaming every single one of you.

[Andrej]

 

 

Why do you say the mafia is probably equal to townies now? I'm guessing 6 total mafia between the teams due to 1/4 balance. There are 19 people left. That's 6 maf and 13 non-maf (some of which are probably indy).

 

Because they probably are.

 

Multi-ball games can't really be balanced like a normal game with the typical ~25% ratio because the risk of mafia teams crossing firing at Night greatly reduces their chances of winning in smaller numbers. We started with 24 and considering some of the roles we have seen flip/been claimed I think we're dealing more with something more like two teams of 4, which puts the total to 8/24. 33% percent makes more sense here considering there's opposing factions but keeps the overall ratio low enough that the game is still winnable for town.

 

You could probably ask Tayla about it, though.

 

Notice how she has me and three others all in her reds? Yeah... she's searching for the other four wolves.

 

I don't see why you aren't including her orange list in this.

 

They're probably all fake reads anyway, and I addressed them in my original post commenting on her list. The point here in particular is that she has me as her number one scum read. Two of her other reds are players that she has looked for and pointed out connections with me specifically. Essentially, she is hunting for my teammates because she believes I am a wolf and wants to find the rest of my team. That's her objective here. She is focused on finding the other mafia instead of collectively looking for all of them.

[Eldrick4221]

Now I'm confused. If it wasn't you, why did you respond to it?

 

@EP I wasn't saying that it would clear him. I'm just saying it would be a point in his favor if he had proof of his claim. They probably don't want to risk it.

 

I do agree that you will probably be one of the targets though.

[Andrej]

I didn't realize you'd responded to this, I snipped because it's already quoted in my post above.

 

 

/snip

 

/snip

 

At the point that I posted that I felt that it was pretty obvious we were going to lynch a villager either way. Don't fault me for saying that - just read the game and the posts made by both players in that situation. It was apparent to me, which is why I state that we needed to decide who would be the best to keep alive moving forward. I felt that continuing the discussion about which of them 'could' be a wolf was probably fake from some of you. You'd fall into that category btw. 

 

Obviously even the wolves agreed with me because Verb was lynched by a landslide. But to be fair, they were probably shook after Pizza's claim and knew any real push in that direction was basically an outing offense.

 

I wasn't downplaying the role at all. One way or the other I doubt Pizza makes it to end game. If he's telling the truth the wolves can't afford to keep him alive. If he was lying to save his skin, well, the role he claimed should be able to produce notable results because of the abilities that are tangible and can be proven as the game goes further. Without those results the truth of the claim becomes less so.

 

I really don't think you can call that discussion "fake"-- at that point, Pizza would have had to claim something which would ensure his survival and I'm sure he's smart enough to do so. IF mafia, he survived, will be outted, and will have two players (possibly town) linked to him. IF town and vt, he probably did it because he believes in his reads (which may or may not be true). IF he's 100% telling the truth, then awesome, we have a really helpful role on our side. I'm not really trying to call Pizza into question here (innocent until proven guilty), but anyone would have claimed SOMETHING in that situation... MY problem is that YOU were discouraging conversation on account of it being wolfy.

 

False. At that point Pizza *HAD* already claimed and it was very clear which route should be taken regardless if he were lying or not. Like I said, with a role like that he has now put himself in a position to produce results or likely come under the threat of being lynched if he can't / is proven to be fake. Also Pizza is literally never a VT here unless he just enjoys wrecking his own team, so please just stop that line of thought. Further speculation at that point was nothing more than a mouth piece for scum to use so they could avoid having to create new content. It falls in line with other classic scum tells like when a player focus a little too much on set-up spec, game theme, mafia theory, etc.

 

My goal wasn't to stifle conversation. My goal was to highlight that it could be used as a crutch by scum to give them something to talk about.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I doubt I change many reads or make much progress here, but I am here.

 

In case this is my last night alive, feel free to interact with me. I am dead tired and have not slept, so I have a few hours of useful consciousness before that's it.

 

I should probably leave my leans where they are, I don't know how analytical I can be and I trust my leans list from before.

 

It has been noted that there may very well be more wolves than I have suspicions.

 

The proverb goes: If you chase two rabbits, you will lose them both.

 

Unless your reads are very accurate, throwing heavy suspicion on 6 players at once gives the wolves an easy solution: Vote the townie you suspect the most, rather than each other.

 

We can't afford to keep mislynching. Narrowing it down to just scums as the wagons is much more powerful.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Anyone feel free to talk to me, including my wolf leans Aj and Talya.

 

Talking to just villagers isn't productive. More villager-wolf interaction is solving.

 

Also, I am always on the look out for tells which reverse my opinions. I won't just hammer you and try to make you look bad if you choose to talk to me.

 

I don't have an agenda, I just want to state my suspicions for the record and then continue discussing.

[Eldrick4221]

So I just read over what AJ has said, and my read on him hasn't changed. He is trying to solve the game, and doesn't seem to be tunneling anyone. I have agreed with what he has said. It all makes sense to me. It feels like he's coming from a town perspective.

 

Can the people that feel otherwise please address why they feel this way?

 

I feel like you've been very wishy-washy this game. Putting out your case on Verbal, taking it back, then saying you're surprised that people jumped on it like they did; speculation on Verbal being 3rd party and winning the battles was a win condition (?), admitting you have no scum reads thus far in the game, because it's too big, and now defending AJ who is pretty much determined scum by a lot of people in the game at this point.

 

Are you not reading? Are you just skimming? I'm curious to know.

 

 

I haven't been able to give as much time to this game as I would like to. I am keeping up, and contributing to events at hand. I have read the whole thread once, as it developed. I am going back and ISOing people to get reads on them.

 

And yes I'm defending AJ. I do believe he's town, which is why I'm asking for the reasons that others don't feel that way.

 

As for my reaction to how you and Tina dealt with my case, I didn't press it because I was wrong. You guys came to similar conclusions on your own. 

 

And there's nothing wrong with me not having scum reads on anyone. I can work just fine with POE by getting a list of town reads. There have been times that people did something scummy, but it wasn't a strong feeling, and they have been explained. I'm working with my team to find and eliminate the scum teams out there. I'm contributing my thoughts as they develop, so we can get through this.

[alannalynn]

My goal wasn't to stifle conversation. My goal was to highlight that it could be used as a crutch by scum to give them something to talk about.

 

I'm just putting my thoughts out there, man. And I really don't think taking into accounts multiple possibilities is harmful at all, despite "scum reads" you may glean from it. I may get back to your post later, I'm getting really tired.

 

Hello Pizza.

[Eldrick4221]

I know I'm not the target of your discussion, but did you get any other information from your peeks, or was it just alignment?

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

My goal wasn't to stifle conversation. My goal was to highlight that it could be used as a crutch by scum to give them something to talk about.

 

I'm just putting my thoughts out there, man. And I really don't think taking into accounts multiple possibilities is harmful at all, despite "scum reads" you may glean from it. I may get back to your post later, I'm getting really tired.

 

Hello Pizza.

 

 

Hey Alanna.

 

I'd go back and quote specific posts of yours I feel were great and asked serious solving questions, but it's really not needed and I'm tired myself.

 

I wonder if we even disagree on suspects, I can't remember which of your leans I disagreed with.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I know I'm not the target of your discussion, but did you get any other information from your peeks, or was it just alignment?

 

Its entirely possible I got their roles and not their alignment and extrapolated from there.

 

I wouldn't discuss it with pending night actions, however.

[alannalynn]

 

So I just read over what AJ has said, and my read on him hasn't changed. He is trying to solve the game, and doesn't seem to be tunneling anyone. I have agreed with what he has said. It all makes sense to me. It feels like he's coming from a town perspective.

 

Can the people that feel otherwise please address why they feel this way?

 

I feel like you've been very wishy-washy this game. Putting out your case on Verbal, taking it back, then saying you're surprised that people jumped on it like they did; speculation on Verbal being 3rd party and winning the battles was a win condition (?), admitting you have no scum reads thus far in the game, because it's too big, and now defending AJ who is pretty much determined scum by a lot of people in the game at this point.

 

Are you not reading? Are you just skimming? I'm curious to know.

 

 

I haven't been able to give as much time to this game as I would like to. I am keeping up, and contributing to events at hand. I have read the whole thread once, as it developed. I am going back and ISOing people to get reads on them.

 

And yes I'm defending AJ. I do believe he's town, which is why I'm asking for the reasons that others don't feel that way.

 

As for my reaction to how you and Tina dealt with my case, I didn't press it because I was wrong. You guys came to similar conclusions on your own. 

 

And there's nothing wrong with me not having scum reads on anyone. I can work just fine with POE by getting a list of town reads. There have been times that people did something scummy, but it wasn't a strong feeling, and they have been explained. I'm working with my team to find and eliminate the scum teams out there. I'm contributing my thoughts as they develop, so we can get through this.

 

Okie, I'm liking hearing this. If you're planning to go back and ISO can you give me your thoughts on Talya or Hallia? I want to hear some definitive opinions that you're not gonna back away from

 

I'm honestly not getting a good read on Andrej. At the beginning of the game I felt he was playing too townie (like "helpful townie too clean to be true") which always pings me to a certain extent. Other than that I've been keeping up with him but I really need to go back and ISO him myself before I make good decisions. It's been easier for me to focus on players less involved in some of the bigger issues, esp with how large this game is.

 

@Pizza: get back to me if you feel you need to question anything, but I am probably going to bed soon, if I don't reply immediately. It IS 430am here

[Askthepizzaguy]

430 am here, too. My job sucks.

[alannalynn]

What do you do for work? I work third shift at an Amazon warehouse, so I tend to be up all night even on the weekends. It sucks. I'm just happy to be out of classes for the summer.

[alannalynn]

I started going over why Leelou has a case against me, I think I'll just finish up in the morning when I'm not so tired. Goodnight all

[Talya]

 

 

EP, can we have a little heart-to-heart. 

 

Why do you think I'm scum? 

because I don't trust you.

 

 

Well, you need to. Okay, my double voting. Do you really think that is a scum power? 

 

 

It could be either, I think I have only seen it as a scum power but that was in the past, and doesn't mean you are, but I question you even questioning it.

 

 

 

UNOFFICIAL COUNT

 

GLADIATOR BATTLE COUNT:

VERBAL (13/11): EP, Pizza, Eldrick, Alot, Yates, Talya, Tina, Heart, Laine, Dice, Hallia, Cass, Sooh

 

PIZZA (4/11): Thane, Leelou (x2?), Verbal, 

 

NOT VOTING (6/20):Krak, Taborline, Andrej, SephVOTES ARE LOCKED

 

WAITING FOR MOD CONFIRMATION.

Extremely high density of wolves on that Verb wagon.

 

NSS (No S*** Sherlock) - yeah are probable a fair few on there, bit obvious, why not use the Darthe one and not this one, will have to check to see if you were voting at the end.

 

Soul read machine says listing them in order as they appear: Alot, Tayla, maybe Tina, Heart, Laine and Cass. You're welcome. Line them up and knock them down and town will win. If I'm wrong about any of those swap in Hallia and profit.

 

I got from you total town to total scum, thought that your flattery would work on me? I will answer some of the points you make further down, but I may ask why the sudden switch, or is this OMGUS because I don't like what you having been saying,

 

Dice is a villager because he is saying whatever the hell he wants and isn't trying to dress his arguments. Sooh is a villager unless she is dramatically convincing in displaying her thought process when it's a lie.

Leelou is a villager always in this situation and is a vetted double voter now.

Eldrick is a villager because he hasn't outed himself yet.

Yates is maybe a villager but he's claimed VT so he's pretty much pigeonholed.

 

Taborline could be a wolf too and either way needs to die because she becomes a larger liability the longer the game goes on. Seph is another that you could probably swap in if I'm wrong about anyone above.

 

When/if Tayla comes back with a red check look at her last reads list. I'm willing to bet her entire team is listed in the null section. Inversely I believe Heart has most of them all in her greens. Food for thought. When/if? So you think I might not come back after day, interesting you might think I won't. I'm stating to think you are S/K Indy, if not wolfie.

 

I realize I'm probably getting gunned for tomorrow which is all good. If it takes me getting lynched to find wolves I am okay with that, town doesn't lose much and I'm fairly confident you will find all the wolves in my solve. Depending on how this Night goes and if I'm lynched the next Day town can't afford many other mistakes. Absolutely lynch from my pool of wolves after I am dead and proven innocent. - I have never liked this kind of offer to people, it's like a self vote, but you don't go that far so makes it more wolfie, it is used to confuse when youn do turn up wolfie

 

This is likely all you'll get from me for this weekend. I've got the kiddo today and a 5k race in the morning tomorrow. In between I'll be studying for finals that are coming next week and finishing up some assignments I owe.

 

Enjoy the 5km - wish I could do that but my knee is shot to pieces and seeing a specialist Monday...good luck!

 

 

 

-snip-

 

He had intimated he had a peek on me. I knew he couldn't have as he would have got town. It is now mute because he has said who had viewed.

 

I'm on phone and tried to snip this so not sure how it will go

 

Wrong.

 

Pizza never said he had peeked you as a wolf. He was basing his suspicion on you based on your vote of Krak. - Actually at the beginning he did, after he claimed he said that is was because I voted for someone he thought was town

 

 

 

 

For one Eldrick is playing a world's difference than I have seen him before. I wouldn't expect you to know this, but it's an important detail nonetheless. In our last game together I was a villager and he was a wolf and I had him pretty firmly pegged D1. What I like about his posts is that he's being vocal with his ideas but not in a way I feel is intentionally manipulative. I also like that he is showing progression and a willingness to adjust his mindset when someone brings up a valid point contesting his. I didn't see this type of fluidity in his thought process in our last contest together. The interactions between him and Alot are a good example and both strike me as villagery in their discussion.

 

I have actually liked Tayla since her game entrance. I haven't played with her before but I get the sense she conveys her thoughts in a clear and confident manner.

 

Krak is a bit of a volume tell. He came out okay D1 and engaged EP and Sili over some stuff I don't really remember exactly without looking back. Then he goes absent for the entiriety of D1 only to reappear again with some random posts before Day break. I don't see much of contribution on his end and frankly I feel like his case towards me is weak, but I'm willing to concede that could just be me getting my panties in a bunch.

 

Odd post above, he said Krak hasn't been around much and feels Kraks case on him is weak, then concedes it is because he could be getting his panties in a bunch!?

 

I think I was being obviously sarcastic there with the panties comment, but if you think about it, it makes sense. I know my alignment and it's natural for me to be suspicious of those voting me especially given the circumstances of D1.At the time I felt Krak could be pushing me from a wolfy place and I wanted to find out. He's still yet to come back into the game from when he posted last. - I'll give you that after rereading it

 

 

[v]Krak[/v] for now.

 

I definitely don't mind seeing a wagon here and maybe now he'll come in and actually support his stances.

 

I've got to run again but I should have a bit of time when class is done before work this afternoon. See you guys then

 

he didn't vote for him before, but now that someone else has, he jumps on and wants to see a wagon there.

 

This is a bad attempt to put suspicion on me and it's a tactic I see scum use fairly often. In fact, I literally caught a wolf in my last game for using this exact same reasoning to vote someone. At this point others (including yourself) had voted Krak and if he wasn't going to come back and engage me then I was perfectly fine seeing him swing.

 

I saw it as delaying tactics, not wanting to the first to vote and hide in secon/thrid place, and having breadcrumbed before on where you wanted to vote, seen this as maffia as well.

 

 

Luckily for you guys, I'm off work and have a few hours at school where I can use a desktop versus having to play strictly from my phone.

I'm probably lynching Pizza here barring some sort of claim on his part.

 

Said he is going for Pizza unless he claims something. soft push for a claim, but with the choice between Verb and Pizza, something was bound to happen.

 

What is your point here? The gladiator lynch basically came down to who claimed what. My suspicion on Pizza at this point before his claim was pretty high considering his defense of one of my scum reads, his attacks on me, and the way he voted Verbal who I was town reading. Essentially, without that claim, I would've definitely vouched for his lynch over Verb.

- Here you say you will vote pizza unless he claims something, later you say that he shouldn't claim, inconsistant (I think you were agreeing to someone on the second part)

 

Lets try a list

 *List snipped*

 

The way you've formatted your reads here makes me think that you are only looking for scum outside of your team. For one, your number of actual reds is very few when at this point in the game the number of wolves and villagers are nearly equal. Your town reads are easy, your nulls are probably all teammates imo, the oranges are a mixture of people that that I think are scum with a sprinkle of 'back up' villagers to lynch and your reds are players that I think you think are connected to me somehow; which basically gives away that you're only looking to piece together the other team and not find all the wolves collectively regardless of who they may be partners with.

 

So my so called team are all the ones that haven't been on much and not posted, I would be one seriously Peed off Wolfie if I had that team. - I don't have a team, so am looking for both teams. The Null, are obviously the very low posters and yet you try to grasp at straws at that point. If I was wolfie, I would have put them all over the place anyway!

 

I agree my town reads are easy, there are the ones I think have something other than just my opnion added in, I would't ever say that someone was fully townie unless I had viewed them. To me they are closest to that 100% at present.

 

Something else you said about there being 4 wolfies on each team and that's why I have got 4 people there, how do you know there are 4 people there? most people have said aboout 2 teams of 3, so this is a bit specific. sounds like you have just made a slip. 

 

 

And, Pizza, i know that you're doing your best to appear super town here and now. But here's a thought lingering at the back of my mind:

 

You could also simply know that Krak and I are town and can be confirmed town (by being killed), because you're one of the wolves. Now, i know this is our first game together, but i'm still not losing my suspicion on you for 100%...

 

You'll probably understand that, seeing you're a seasoned player (that's the impression i get from you anyways)

 

He would guess you were town if there was only one team out there, but Darhe has said multiball, which would mean, if he was on one team, he wouldn't know for sure you were town for definite, all he would know is you weren't on his team.

 

Chocolate always solves everything.

 

This reads to me like Tayla is aware that Thane isn't on her team with how she speaks to him here. - this is laughable, I was just pointing out what Darthe had said, because I had recently just brought it up in you ISO I did. It is also one of the reason why I am more believing of Pizza being a villager.

 

 

 

Also, if I continue after this game to refer to people as villager and wolf as opposed to town and scum/mafia, I'm blaming every single one of you.

 

This I have done already, lol

 

 

[Sooh]

Sorry in advance for the massive quote. It's pretty much everything I have said about Dice and Laine's comments on it. 

I had a pretty awesome day out with friends, so I'm just responding to things as I reread the end of day 2 and into the night, gonna see how far I get before I have to sleep... Sorry for the multiquotes in advance, I tried to trim down what I could <3

 

**snip**

 
@Sooh: I'm leaning town on Dice, i haven't seen anything bad from him, but you seem rather convinced that he's scum, the way you keep bringing it back, just wondering if you're seeing something I'm not seeing. I'll go back and ISO just in case.

**snip**

 

It's not that I have seen anything bad. It's more that I haven't seen anything good. I would expect at this point of the game that when he gives his votes or reads he has something else than his gut to base it on. 

 

**snip**

Meh..I don't like any of the trains at the moment.

Vote: Dice

I still don't understand why you jumped on a random person with... 21 minutes left to the day and nobody really following you on that Dice-vote front (except I think maybe Tina? mentioned she was willing to switch over). I think spreading votes at the end of day is a bad idea.

 

**snip**

I would think this post explained why I jumped to a random person. I was not happy with voting neither Thane nor Verbal as I have them both as slight town reads. I was trying to get the town to come with me and vote someone I believe is scum. If you look a little further you'll also see that I did vote on the main trains out of necessity before EOD, but it was not a happy vote.

 

I just.. you could have picked a better candidate to derail the train if that's what you wanted to do? And not seeing much good isn't an excuse to say someone is mafia then get upset when people aren't following your case when you haven't even provided a case against him: I don't really see where you ever built a case against Dice in your posts? He basically makes one comment on how you need to speak to your mentor first about reads, yet your reads haven't changed much. I don't see this as scummy, I see this as questioning an inconsistency. And THEN you say that he "might not be as strong a candidate for scum anyway". So which is it?

 

/snip/

First I wanted to know from Dice why it's such a bad thing that my town reads haven't changed a whole lot. It's like that's the scummiest thing you've ever read.  Really?

/snip/

I still feel like Dice, Seph and Talya are interesting candidates for scum. I'm aware that Seph is for meta reasons, and it's not a strong case really. I need to go back and look more at Dice, because he has been stepping up his game in my opinion, and might not be as strong a candidate for scum anyway... Talya has followed her very own path this game, and might for that reason be very scummy or very villagery. I still feel like she has been defending Seph a lot, and so pending a flip on him I would potentially look at her closer. 

/snip/

 

Next up, you ask for opinions on his playstyle.

/snip

Can you all give me your opinions on Dice?

I think he looks horribly scummy so far this game... 

 

 

 

Mainly the same thing. I have found he has done very little in terms of giving reads, and yes, I felt like his vote on me was off. I just can't seem to shake that he isn't being Town!Dice, which is why I'm reaching out to you who have played with him longer to see if anyone else feel the same way as I do. I find that it's much more compelling to me to go in that direction right now rather than at Thane/Hallia. 

 

Interesting, what's your read on me?

 

You know I <3 you but this is tinfoil Cass... I trust noone when I play and you've said you'll never trust me again so adding in the explanation about 'reaching out' seems strange... Currently I think I'm putting Dice at about the same level as Thane. Scummy to start and now not sure. And I'm still not certain that you're not Scum yourself.

 

Cass, I reached out to EVERYONE... Currently you and your hydra partner are in my null reads because most of all I find it hard to read two players playing the same spot. Fair enough on the tinfoiling. I do that with everyone too, but if enough people independently read Dice as scummy, maybe he really is? Regardless of the two of us and our affiliation.

 

I <3 you too... lol just neutral in mafia

You're just basically saying he's scum because he voted against you once. Yes, I know someone is going to complain about how I'm simplifying this observation, I just want to point out some odd behavior on account of Sooh.

 

Your next mention of Dice is during the Thane/Verbal trains when you're trying to pull people away to vote on Dice. Strangely enough, NOBODY voted Dice day 1 and ONLY YOU voted Dice day 2, so I really don't see how you were attempting to pull votes away from the Thane/Verbal lynch at this point when you hadn't even made a case against him. (For the record, he voted you for your odd behavior about asking about the Sili vote on Yates1.0 lynch and needing to discus with your mentor your reads)

Meh..I don't like any of the trains at the moment.

[v]Dice[/v]

I think Dice only has one vote... mine... 

Seriously? Nobody wants to look at Dice today?

/snip/

Why couldn't you just all not follow me on Dice?

/snip

 

I don't know what you're getting at here, honestly. It feels like you were trying to play the good townie by LOOKING like you were trying to avoid a lynch in a "t/t" situation but not actually putting in the effort to convince anyone otherwise?

 

I think with Dice my case is built mainly on meta, which makes it really hard to explain. I know it's hard for you and anyone who doesn't know him to see it, but I was hoping perhaps the people who have played quite a bit with Dice might have seen it. Seems like Tina did, but unfortunately it was too little too late. 

I was late in that day because of a flat tire, and I was attempting to see what people saw in either of the two trains. I didn't see anything, so I voted somewhere else.

 

I try to trust my gut in this game, and I don't see why that is a bad thing. 

 

A lot of people have said stuff about Dice's posting habits on here. Tina has, Cass has, I believe AJ has but I might be mixing him up with somebody else. 

 

I voted Dice because he is one of my strongest scum reads. I don't like going to easy route and just picking someone I think a bunch of people will vote for.