[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

[BFG]

BFG, if I ask you a simple and direct question, will you give me an honest and direct answer?  Please. :)

Hello :)

 

Yes, but ask quickly, I'm out in 10 minutes for dinner

[BFG]

God, that quote chain is going to get annoying.

Yes :(

[Thane Vakarian]

*watches with interest*

[Clovdyx]

 

BFG, if I ask you a simple and direct question, will you give me an honest and direct answer?  Please. :)

Hello :)

 

Yes, but ask quickly, I'm out in 10 minutes for dinner

 

 

Did you roll town this game?

[BFG]

Yes

[BFG]

Clov are you fooling me *again* this game?

[Clovdyx]

Clov are you fooling me *again* this game?

 

I honestly have no idea how to answer this.  I'm town, and you seem to be scumreading me, so ???

[Clovdyx]

Would it be fooling if you're misreading me?

[BFG]

Last night I read through Twilight, Masons and Tron. I don't think I even thought about suspecting you in Tron or Twilight, I was nervous in Masons though. I have the feeling that the only thing I'm ever going to be able to 'judge' you on is how good your reads are, which makes your Yates read look 'bad' for you :/

 

Back later

[BFG]

(Based on you being spot on in Masons)

[Clovdyx]

[v]Thane[/v]

 

I believe BFG to be telling the truth about rolling town.  She's a very analytic thinker, and I want to say I remember her doing a similar style post as her big one from an hour ago before as town, though I haven't been able to locate it (checked Masons, Twilight, HHG, and Tron) so maybe I'm wrong there.  I agreed with most of her points and can follow why she marked them as positives/negatives/and neutrals.

 

The only major discrepancy I have is her giving a positive to Thane for early game talk.  I thought he was a relatively slow starter in the game, and what he had didn't really blow me away.  His main read was Sili, who was already getting pressure from multiple people, and I was his second.  His justification on us was that we were being "too defensive" - but I don't remember him ever trying to explain WHERE we were being defensive or WHAT we were being defensive about.

 

A couple minor tings I disagree with:

 

Thane:

 

- MIA

 

I thought this, too, until I checked the post count.  Obviously not a perfect method to determine activity...but he's third in posts this game.  Sili is the runaway leader and BFG recently passed Thane, 149 to 145.  So I guess my issue isn't that he's not been here, but I get the feeling he's sitting on the sideline.  

 

 

 

 

Some of his recent posts

 

i'm here.... and yeah, i think i've said my thing... willing to discuss though 

 

 

i'm here, at work, so bear with me.

 

 

*watches with interest*

 

 

I just get the impression that since Yates died, he's basically either been in bystander mod or had to be dragged into the conversation.  Reactive, rather than proactive, if you will.

 

 

 

 

Cass:

 

- stuck on Sili for a long time.

 

I don't really have a huge with this.  It seems like Sili was one of her first strong scum reads and I don't think Sili handled pressure all that well this game.  Without context it might look like a tunnel, but based on the flow of thread, it seems relatively reasonable to me.

 

 

Me:

 

~ until today, seems to be 'on' peoples suspect list, but never pushed. Not sure how to weight this one given the size of the game, there are probably a number of people you could make that argument for, but Clov isn't ever a 'real' mislynch candidate for mafia to nudge or push.

 

Just not really sure what to make of this?

 

- 'doesn't sound like mafia BFG' feels a bit 'buddyish' since Thane is the only one in the game that's played a game with Mafia!BFG and that game was 9 months ago and my style has 'evolved' since then, I'm not sure why he thinks he knows what mafia!BFG would be like (what can I say RandomOrg can see into my soul and knows that I am, and always will be Town; alternatively I am the anti-Leelou).

 

Analysis here is spot on, I'm not sure where you're quoting there.  I ran a search of posts with me as the author, looking for "sounds" and "sound".

 

 

 

 

"Sounds"

 

1

2

3

4

5

 

Now using "sound" instead.  Some of these are repeats, but whateever.

 

1

2

3

4

 

 

 

 

Those are all the results I got.  I DID make a couple posts referring to you as "Mafia!BFG to examine angles, but I think that's it.  

 

(Sidenote: laughs were had at "Anti-Leelou".)

[Songstress]

Sorry for the silence. I was super grumpy yesterday and last night I had a procrastination fit.

 

I'm stuck at work again (as little as I want to be here) but solemnly swear to do #work after dinner when I get home.

 

to my ponies!

[BFG]

[BFG]

@Clov

 

Thane's PC is relative. I was referring to Day 1 up until EOD.

 

Cass - ymmv, it's more that I can't remember her looking seriously elsewhere, I can remember her stances but not the reasons.

 

You - the mafia!BFG was to do with the 'nitpicky' over the tinfoil, either that or I've been having extremely odd/sad dreams. Notes at lunch are written from memory, so are what stood out to me the most, some stuff will change on ISOs.

 

Look at the player list, assume everyone town and look at who the mislynches are, it's a compliment

 

(lol, meant to delete that sorry Leelou <3)

[BFG]

So I'm going to attempt to ISO people, but I may have had a little to much wine (the drink sort as opposed to the WIFOM sort, although that to)

[BFG]

Clov, what happened to your ISO of Yates?

[BFG]

I also don't know if I've ever done a post in that format before, don't think I have, but it's a handy way of making/understanding notes, without getting bogged down with grammar and whatnot

[Clovdyx]

Clov, what happened to your ISO of Yates?

 

Just haven't gotten around to finish it.  I guess getting freighttrained in Tommy's game took a lot out of me.

[BFG]

So it would be great if people didn't disappear!

[BFG]

And good morning?

[BFG]

:)

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm here

 

Though, i don't know what else i might add. i think i was clear enough.

 

Clov's vote on me, well... smells a bit of OMGUS-vote, but yeah, i'm not worried. I know i'm town, and if he gets me lynched, he'll be next.

 

i'm currently having a nice cup of coffee

[BFG]

Argh, lost ISO post twice now (last night and this morning)

Out to work now, back tonight

[Cass]

Argh, lost ISO post twice now (last night and this morning)

Out to work now, back tonight

 

Gah that always sucks. Who are you ISOing? I was about to start on Thane... Maybe we can split the work? Clov had a point about working as a team... and I can't stay up all night tonight. Can maybe do an hour, two tops 

[Cass]

OK, started ISOing and then realised I probably won't get that done before I fall asleep. Started responding to stuff from last night and ended up with one giant WoT of quotes and responses that ended turning into my general thoughts and a vote. RL brain all over the shop right now. Everything unwieldy so breaking it down into two. Make that three, too many quoted blocks of text.

 

Responses to specific things since last night:

 

 

 

 

[v]Sili[/v]

 

I think i got fooled D1. Been re-reading some after N1, and yeah, you don't make sense to me. 

 

 

ignore Thane, really?

 

Yates: i thought Sili a possible wolf candidate early D1. His tone and general posting improved, that's why he went down my list of suspects. Right now, he's absolutely everywhere. He's not making sense at all to me. Usually, i can get where he comes from, but here.... nope. I think he's a good one for today

 

 

Thane, if you're here, what specifically bothered you/wasn't making sense? What made you think that you'd been 'fooled' D1, enough that you would vote?

 

I'll try to explain it as simple as possible. I look at people's posting styles a lot. Usualli, i can make sense of Sili, even if he votes left and right. There's logic behind what and how he does things. This time, D2, he seemed random, panicking and jumpy for no obvious reason. He got his things together later during that gamehase, that's why i unvoted him

 

So Day 1 he made sense to you?

And towards the end of his last day?

 

 

 

@BFG

 

I liked your +/- lists and I'm likely going to go through and try a similar method at points like this where I feel I'm getting lost, rather than just looking through the thread for things that stand out as potential OBVSCUM flags to me.

 

WRT me and the things you had ~/-  

 

~ listing everyone who posted a few times as a mafia suspect - made a bit more nullish since I suspect Cass approaches the game thinking everyone's mafia and only gives out town reads because not everyone 'can' be mafia.

Yup, that's pretty much how I approach it :) - explanation to the second point at the bottom of the dodgy quote train with Clov here 

 

- not understanding why she ends up thinking that Clov is mafia

In a nutshell: Paranoia. Did the explanations/conversations with Clov help?

 

+ early suspicion of Yates...
- but never really pushed

I personally found nothing to go on for Yates except his tone, a suspicion he was buddying me and the blatant lie about it not initially being mafia who set me up as Scum in the last game. I pointed all of those out as soon as I noticed them, and kept him on my 'to be watched' list, but until I started thinking I was potentially wrong on Sili (after your post) he wasn't at the top of my list to investigate/put pressure on. He was playing carefully and answered the questions I asked in ways I couldn't refute, so at the time I didn't see much sense in dividing my attention. FWIW, he was the next one I was going to start pushing, following his !Wolfy! comment about jmm to me/D2 re-skimming, and that's partly what I was looking into in the D2 re-read just before Tress claimed and saved me all the trouble.

 

- Saying that Thane is parrotting her reads (from her reread/ISO of the Early Game - he wasn't, he'd voiced suspicions first)

More that he didn't elaborate beyond his top two suspects, didn't give reasons or thoughts on anybody else when I asked where he was currently at.

 

- stuck on Sili for a long time.
~ When she stopped focusing on Sili seemed to lose focus on what she was thinking?

These are both actually valid points  Sili's flip still suprised me, tbh. I still feel like I have lost focus. Sili was top, Yates was going to be next, both of those are gone, and noone left is OBVSCUM (to me). I think this is perhaps the biggest problem with my put all the focus/pressure on my top candidates for scum. When they're gone I'm lost and have to start again, especially if the players left weren't overtly pinging me like !SCUM!. (FWIW, The exact same thing happened to me in the last game and I caught a bit of heat. Tbh at the end of the last game I was tunneling on the wrong player and only saved by the vig taking out the remaining scum). Also have RL stuff going on that caught up around that time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey all, got some sleep and should be able to post most of my catchup questions/responses during ponylette's nap today (soon) yey!

 

Cass,

- When you were rereading considering that Sili might be town were you re reading the thread or via. ISO?

- I also asked you why you had Clov as a mafia suspect when you were agreeing with what he said? Yet when you responded to Clov it sounded like you were reading him as town after all?

- Both, often I needed the context of thread to try and work out what he was saying - why?

- I was/am paranoid about the possibility of Clov subtly setting me up as a Wolf, and I think I've explained that several times (can't remember if it was specifically in relation to a question you asked me directly or not, sorry if I missed something ) I'm not sure what you mean by 'it sounded like you were reading him as town' - at least not in the earlier game when I was more concerned about the Clov-Sili interactions feeling pretty strongly to me like something was off. As far as I can remember I was generally fishing for more from him because my gut feel had me uncertain even though I could understand the logic of what he said. I don't see how that suggests I was reading him as Town. Can you explain/give examples of what you mean?

 

Sorry, saw this this morning but didn't have time to respond.

Because Thane's reads were on thread first, so it seems odd to accuse him of repeating your reads (although I think he did say 'basically yours as well'.

The second question was in response to this

 

I don't know, maybe I'm biased here, but her posts seem like she SHOULD have been reading me as town. She had one solid complaint about what I had posted, which was me asking Sili for insinuating she couldn't make her opening as scum, so she started to be concerned I was setting her up. Even though that wasn't remotely possible by what I had said. So she ignores multiple things I said that she agreed with?

I wouldn't say 'ignored' I would say 'decided not to tinfoil on.'

I think that decision will have to change now though. Logically, your defense of Yates could be plausibly sus, Even though it didn't seem too off to me at the time - you have more experience than me and seem less prone to over-paranoia, and potentially like you play the game hunting Town, not scum. However, although I didn't have much more than wary/uneasy gut to go on against him, I could never come up with anything myself about his play that reassured me he was not scum. At the time, I may have been prone to accepting your defense of him because I felt rather good about you.

But now? What if I was wrong??

I had other people creeping up my scummy list, but now I have to double my work and go back, comparing them to you.
This is why I don't like clearing people likely Town...

 

In your initial read post on Clov you agreed with him in places which made the mafia read a little unexpected. But in your post above you seem to be saying that you were 'not tinfoiling' (thinking negatively/changing from a town to mafia read) on Clov because he agreed with you, which seems unusual.

I had been asking how your initial read of Clov was formed, but I'll wait and see if I understand it more clearly in a reread/ISO

 

 

If it helps in your re-read/ISO, I may not be understanding 'tinfoil' correctly. For me I use it to explain my paranoia when I'm concerned it might be overly paranoid, if that makes sense? (Like those people who put on tinfoil hats because of x?). To me tinfoiling is different to just thinking negatively/changing from a town to mafia read that is likely to be justified (which should be normal in this game), it's tunneling on about stuff that isn't actually right/convincing myself somebody is scum just on paranoia. So I didn't ignore the things Clov said that I could logically agree on, I counted them as logical-potential-scum rather than likely-scum and decided at that point I wasn't going to pursue them or Clov. Earlier on I had a stronger feeling that there was an attempt to set me up, which I felt Clov encouraged in the same way I experienced last game, so I felt like he was likely mafia and hence my read. 

 

 

 

 

@ Clov

 

(Quotes all-spoilered in case it helps deal with dodgy formatting)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Clov - Just that it was odd that he would 'call' me Town 'like everyone else' but do it in a way that casts doubt/insinuates that I might be different from the others he listed...

Kinda feels like the same as my first game where the Scum mostly said 'I have her as Town,' and then carefully insinuated it was possible I could be Scum because it was plausible that I could be being helped. The doubt that move cast over the rest of Town haunted/followed me for the whole freaking game.

I feel like it was a search for something similar to push against me in this game: 'I have her as Town, BUT she could be pulling the wool over your eyes/could be Scum now because even though she's fairly new, she's had experience being Scum before...'

Since I know I'm Town again (and probably also because I'm once bitten, twice shy) it pings/makes me wary.

Does that make any sense? (I'm typing this on phone whilst trying not to ignore the toddler - let me know if doesn't)

Also, you read the last game, right? Do you think something different??

@ Sili - Do you have links to a recent Town game at all?

Going out to lunch/running errands now, back tonight when the kid's in bed - GL!

 

I was more concerned with him using a conditional he already knew the answer to.  That is, he's somewhat familiar with the games you've played, so he new the answer to  "Have you played a bunch of scum games?" would be no.  That would allow him to lock you in as town, based on what he said earlier.

 

Basically a cheap way to justify a TMI "read".

 

 

I dont think i would read me as a wolf if i knew me so i dont see what u see tress.

Current reads are

Yates town
Clov town
Cass town
Tress town
Bfg town

Jmm scum.

Expect me to itterate heavily in the background. Sometimes ppl find it fishy that i nudge and swap targets but i like to give reads breathing room. It also creates content. If something is important ill usually elaborate to persuade people

 

What makes you think BFG is town?  Jmm scum?  Neither of those seem like they should be above null to me.

 

 

Thane is also town in the derp clear sort of way.

 

He says the wolf instead of a wolf. Its a tentative meta read premised on him being selective about his word choice if he ever rands mafia for me.

 

....what?

 

 

Clov, I agree with the TMI thing here. Potentially scummy Sili-you interactions aside, this post comes across as fairly towny. Only gripe I have is that you didn't actually answer whether or not my own train of thought also made sense to you and if you actually read the game I was talking about/the interactions that made me 'paranoid'.
 

 

Not sure if you expected me to, but on re-read I realised I never really got back to you about this. 

 

 

 

Quote chopping ITT.

 

Sili

In a nutshell, at this point, I'm totally reading you as scum (again), but I'm interested in some elaboration from you before I vote.

- What are your thoughts/reactions to the above?
- Why should we be reading you as Town?
- What's the difference in your mind between a Town 'read' and a Town 'lean'?
- What was your reason for suggesting Clov was a likely Wolf? Do you have a reason for not elaborating at the time?
- You said chopping and changing is normal for you, and that you like to 'give your reads breathing room', but you 'pushed' Clov at least twice before suddenly dropping him and saying he actually seemed fine. Why?
- Why is jmm's question about the number of wolves scummy?
- How can you say you have Clov as Town because your interactions were 'likely v/v violence', but then claim you're 'spewed' clear if he is Scum? I can't follow that logic/don't see anything that points to either of these btw.

 

 

The whole post seems like a genuine attempt at trying to get a read on Sili, so I think that looks really good for Cass.  The questions in red especially sound like she's trying to understand how he's playing.  Only way she's mafia here is if she's going for a very long set up on him being inconsistent (or completely wasting time, I guess).  I don't think that's the case.  I'm pretty comfortable calling Cass town for where we're at.

 

 

My plan is to pocket you.  See how you respond.  Serious question; when is the last time I read you wrong?  I want to see that comfortable, free thinking, shoot from the hip Thane Town so I'm setting you up for it.  And if a "Be Nice" game isn't the proper format to get you to that place, I don't know what is.

 

Yates, can you elaborate on what you mean by pocket him here?  The end of the post seems to be a reasonably pro-town thing to do, but I'm getting hung up on the first sentence.  You don't normally see that expression used as a positive thing, or as a way of helping somebody establish themselves, as you seem to be doing with Thane.

 

 

I'll need to account for his lack of games but my thinking was his posts were too 'excited', and didn't say much. He only asks one question, how many mafia there are in an 8 person team with his second post. -felt like he might have done it just for town cred the way it was phrased.

 

 

Jmm, to that point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greetings and salutations, fellow ponies. 

-----------------

This is the extent of my MLP knowledge: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zHZj8Xp-Ik

 

 

Experienced mafia-ers: 

With 8 are we looking at 2 or 1 mafia probably? 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see how you can possibly say he's been particularly excited.  More importantly, why is that alignment indicative?  I think most people associate having fun and being easy going as towntelling, because it reduces the concern they're hiding something.  I don't know there's much truth to it, but it seems to make more sense than somebody being scummy for it.

 

The second point is reasonable enough, I suppose.

 

Massive quote chopping in the one below.

 

 

 

 

- Picks up the 'pressure' on Sili. Uses Sili's 'read' of me as the base:

Valid but ... *shoves on tinfoil hat*... parts 'fit' my current theory that Sili and Clov are W-W, and my concern that I'm being set up by Scum again.

 

- Says he's confused as to how Sili can take a hard stance on my alignment based on my first post.

Agree with this, but then

 

- Asks why I'm 'incapable' of making that post as scum?

My opening being null is a valid point in theory, but in practice I don't like that he uses the word 'incapable' here, in a tone that suggests he's saying I'm actually 'capable' of making that post as scum. Same potential as before. Scum casting doubt on my alignment based on 'questions' of my ability. Sili 'brushes this off' by saying 'she's not incapable?'. Tinfoily as all bollocks? Maybe. Either way, I don't like it. 

 

 

- Pushes harder at Sili for saying 'All my reads are tentative of course' so early on, and questions the caveat Sili put on his read of me compared to others.

This actually came across as Town to me (and was the part I was referring to when I mentioned the partial mind-meld with Clov).

 

- Talks about the 'relevance' of their 'different' opinions and the fact that he's considering Sili might be scum.

Ok, but slightly off. Feels kind of fake. He say's he'd rather 'try to judge' Sili on his reads than on 'meaningless posts' from the first page, but did judge him there. And then agrees that 'miscommunication' doesn't make someone scum and (?over) explains the possibility that Sili's PM may have made him scum and that it's his job to figure that out. Appeals for Town cred by essentially explaining stuff that is rather obvious, and then associating himself with 'everyone's' likely reasoning (bold in spoiler).

 

 

 

 

 

Questions me directly

- Says he's not sure how me being set up as scum by scum would work.

- Asks me what I'm thinking/to explain.

Maybe I wasn't overly clear in my initial statements to Sili, but I found Clov asking for explanations on this odd because i)at the end of the last game, I thought it was pretty obvious that this had been one of scum's main ploys when it came to me, and ii) I distinctly remember Clov commenting on the DT/after the game. I kind of made these points in my response (bold in the spoiler). He hasn't posted since asking me the initial question, so I'm still waiting to see what comes up in his response to my explanation.

 

Other

Pretty much null

 

- Jokes in response to Yate's first post

Seemed purposefully flippant, but not necessarily scummy.

 

- Answers jmm's question about the number of scum likely to be in this game

Says two. Initially I took this as Town/null, and nobody else experienced has contradicted the answer so it's probably correct, but, just to dot i's and cross t's can the mod/other experienced players please confirm this is right, please?

 

 

@ Clov

 

It's not much to go on yet, but already I'm reading your posts with a scummish lean, especially in relation to Sili/points raised by Sili. At this point you seem to be the second most likely wolf to me. I know I haven't played a proper game with you and could just be tinfoiling/reading you all wrong so I'm interested to know your thoughts/figure this out further.

 

- What are your responses/reactions to the above?

- What is your current read on Sili, and why? 

 

 

 

Red - Well, yeah, that would be the implication there.  I think your opening post was pretty null, so the way Sili presented his thoughts on it seemed strange - I didn't feel there was anything that was alignment indicative so him implying you would have had to get massive Mafia (alignment, not the game) experience to make it as Mafia was off.  Bold red behind it though is a bad conclusion, though.  I'm not "casting doubt" on your alignment, and my stance had nothing to do with your ability.  I was casting doubt on what appeared to be a strong read off nothing.

 

As for the rest of it, honestly, most of it seems to be paranoia/tinfoiling.  You and I seem to have been seeing the thread the same way early on.  From your POV, I can understand (and appreciate) some concern that maybe I'm trying to side with you or something, but I think it's a little early to worry about that.

 

Section highlighted in blue is something that stood out to me as more than just tinfoiling.  If you feel it felt fake, I can't really do/say anything to refute that.  You're wrong about me judging him based off the first page fluff, though.  My read from him in post #29 is based on him

 

1) moving on from a presumable joke vote of BFG

2) his "vibes"

 

Effort isn't much to go on, but for the first few hours of the phase, I can appreciate somebody trying to get down to business.  Like I said, it wasn't very strong, but it was a better option that making a guess based on initial posts and mod-directed spam.

 

Now I'm feeling worse about him.  His justification for reading you as town as early as he did seems based off nothing, and his explanation on reading jmm just doesn't make sense to me.  It doesn't seem like he's reading the same thread I am.

 

 

The things that bother me here/read to me as having the potential to be off are in bold red.
 

The first part is highlighted because it honestly still reads to me like it could have been intended either way, and if you did mean to cast that subtle doubt... *insert previous argument about not liking being set up this way previously by scum here*

 

The second part stung only because of the barb in the tail. Given that it was early after my interaction in the last game that this concerning tactic started, I don't think any time would be 'too early' to 'worry' about that. I highlighted it the instant it felt similar to me to avoid the possibility of having to contradict/deal with it the entire game again - and it may be because it was nothing or something this time, but it hasn't happened since so I don't regret voicing my concerns.

 

The third part bothered me more before your answer at EoD about not being overly certain about the read than it does now

(but if Sili flips scum it will probably bother me somewhat again lol)

 

 

 

From the top - 

 

It made sense, but it didn't seem likely.  Setting you up with a town read and then reversing it right after would have looked worse on him than you IMO.  And no, I wasn't really expecting you to follow up with it, but I appreciate you doing so.

 

 

From the bottom - 

 

First part - if that's how it reads to you, that's how it reads to you.  I wrote what I wrote and explained why I wrote it that way.  If you see it differently, there's nothing I can really do about it at this point, besides point out that I obviously haven't tried to use it against you...so if I was going to, it didn't pan out that way?

 

Second - I'm not sure what tactic you're referring to.  I would guess trying to set you up, but that doesn't really mesh with what I was conveying in that section - which was that I felt it was too early to start being concerned with likely town reads actually being mafia.  Of course I'm all for keeping reads fluid with the game thread, but I think you have to trust your reads to be reliable, until that person gives you something to change them for.  As it applied here, you and I seemed to agree on a lot early and your posts seemed to suggest that I was a slight townlean.  To immediately turn to the aspect of being wrong just seemed a bit much.

 

Third - I'm not sure what you're saying here, or why him flipping scum would bother you.  Can you elaborate on what bothered you about it?

 

 

 

 

The first part - yup 

 

Second - I'm still not sure if you're denying that it's a tactic or saying you weren't trying to use it, or both... And yes, this relates to being set up. If that's not what you were doing then it's not what you were doing, but it's still a logical potential in my mind.

I will probably always be concerned that my otherwise townish reads are actually based on mafia being scummy.  I can't help but feel more comfortable trusting my 'that could be scummy' intuition more and I think I operate the opposite, people coming across ok remain potentially clever scum, people coming across scummy probably just are scum, and I go after the person I'm finding/feeling the scummiest at the time. Guilty until 'proven' innocent, in a sense. Still possible that I'm going to be wrong and tinfoil on the wrong player (   Sili), but a little less likely that I'm going to get duped somewhere along the line by clever scum and possibly let them go, I would hope at least. I don't know where the impression of a 'slight townlean' came from (until at least after the posts at EOD1, where I might have started to read you with a slight change also). Yes, I found myself agreeing logically/theoretically with your push at Sili and some of the points you made, but I distinctly remember being bothered by the feeling/tone that I may be being set up. I had you as my second strongest scum lean - with Sili as your likely partner, and I said I was reading your posts with a scummish lean. You were in my 'logically-clean-associatively-and-tonally-disturbing' pile. For me that most likely equates to a wolf being wolfy and just being clever enough to avoid doing anything overtly wrong. Can you explain where you thought I had you down as Town, at that point?

 

Third - If Sili had flipped scum, it would have bothered me a little more that I had this concern/feeling/paranoia about you early in the game (that maybe the two of you were setting me up), and then that later, you said you felt worse about him (looks good to Town) but didn't vote for him (put off a lynch). Basically, it would have added to the other things about your play that were keeping me on guard, and that would've been another, stronger potential indication that you were scum.

 

That's pretty much it, in a nutshell, although now I'm more concerned again because of the potential w-w in you and Yates.

 

 

I thought you would/SHOULD have had me down as town, because I will never be able to wrap my head around "Yeah, that argument makes sense.  I agree with him on that.  This part sounds reasonable.  Eh, he's probably scum though."

 

I get that it's your "thing" to always have some doubts you're being tricked or somebody's working an angle, but this is a team game - I would expect the people you to trust most to be the one's approaching the game in a similar manner as you and seeing things the same way you are.  You can both be wrong, and they CAN be mafia, but I'm not sure that's the likeliest scenario.

 

 

I can respect these arguments/views, and I'm going to try and take them on board and play more like a team, it's just hard to trust anyone other than yourself if your team has a mole and you know it... But, this idea fits with my theory that communication is the key. Perhaps a little more trust and cooperation should be up there too...