[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

[Sili Quirrels]

yates, what sort of person is scum tress?

[Cass]

what are you looking for?

 

 

Sili, I have been wondering this myself. With my specific questions, I'm obviously looking for specific answers to the things you've said/done that have wigged me out, because those are the things that have made me concerned you might be a wolf. 

 

Beyond that, I think what I'm really looking for is something that finally just goes 'click' and hands me over the magic key to how to understand you / the way you think.  

 

Because worrying about whether the fact I don't understand you here is more likely to result in me tunneling you incorrectly if you are Town, or be a result of you actually playing like Scum because you are Scum is driving me nuts. 

 

I have read you scummy in all the games I've played with you, for the same reasons/gut feelings and you were confirmed Town in one and later-level Scum in the other. Here that makes me nervous. Your inconsistencies make me nervous that you're scum. The way sometimes I think you're honestly trying to get something across that I'm not seeing makes me nervous that I'm wrong and you are Town. At other times it feels like you're deliberately playing with me - drawing things out and running me around in circles on purpose, and that makes me nervous that you're Scum too. Either one could be entirely possible, based on history, and I don't like not knowing how to figure you out.

 

Basically, in a nutshell, I want a key for how to understand you if you're Town and specific answers that have no hint of potential trickery, or a slip so undeniable it can't just be my paranoia if you're Wolf (eg. you want to tell us about the only other two times you've played wolf, this time?       ). I want more certainty, and if you are a wolf like I'm mostly thinking you are, I want your blood *g* 

 

Is that what you were after, or were you looking for something else?

[Cass]

 

 

 

 

clov, i'm missing something from you.

 

what is your read on me?

 

You're in my mafia pool right now.  Throwing names out there earlier in response to...Tress?...when she asked who would be the one mafia and then trying to go back and say they weren't your reads doesn't make any sense to me.  You seem to be all over the place and the number of things I can't follow your thought process is considerably lower than the number of things I can.

 

 

 

I'm fighting off a cold and drained after 6+ hours of NFL Playoffs and chores. So I'm too lazy to do my typical Yates quote then respond thing...

Feel better!!

 

@Tress - Two questions for you, my lovely: 1. Would you mind explaining to me your read on BFG? I think you have more experience with her than I do and I'd like to know what you are seeing. And 2. Would you mind explaining your Thane read a little more as well? I'm a little confused as I read through your progression on him because sometimes it looks to me like you think he's scum but then you also say he is likely being "set up."

A'ight, I'll do the best I can for now.

 

1) Regarding BFG, I think she's responded well to the pressure you and Clov have put on her, and answered the questions that were raised sufficiently.  I didn't necessarily like parts of her argument against no lynch, but otherwise her end of day engagement was good and it felt like she was trying to resolve question marks.  I really want to hear more from her now that D2 has started, but I am not willing to lynch her today barring a really convincing case or a cop guilty.

 

2) Regarding Thane, he's always a big question mark for me.  I expect he'll come back in and explain his low participation, but that's really a null.  The main reason I think he's a somewhat poor suspect is that I don't believe he'd be clumsy enough to pointedly comment on jmm's PR hint, then nightkill him.  Not to say it's impossible, but it seems like a really amateur move, and as hard a time as I have discerning his alignment most games, I have a lot of respect for his instincts.    He's still in my questionable list, and we definitely need more from him today - hopefully all is well with him and his family, and we'll hear from him within a few hours

 

 

Is BFG your top town read now then?  I seem to recall you feeling pretty good about Cass earlier, so I'm trying to straighten your order out in my head.

 

 

@Sili - Serious question; why did you say this: "don't know why the wolves thought jmm would be a power role?" You are a clever pony and I'd like some help understanding your motivation here.

 

 

Easy villa points. Plus I had to distance myself from the kill due to a couple things I said and the way things went down at eod.

 

 

I don't understand how you think you saying that would earn you "easy villa points".  But this post just sounds awful.   People trying to distance themselves from kills is usually a bad sign...

 

 

The bold doesn't seem to fit with the tone of the rest of your post. Do you really mean to say you understand more of what Sili says than what you don't, or was this an 'unfortunate' typo?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lack of volume. yates says that's a scum tell. plus some of his reads are a little hollow compared to what they purport, like the ones on me and jmm.

 

well i feel that way anyway.

 

How do you figure?  His read on Jmm at least seems pretty solid.  

 

what i remember is thane cleared jmm because of a claimed power role at eod in an 8 player roster, when previously he thought jmm was scum.

 

what did i miss?

 

 

 

Nothing.  I just don't see why trusting somebody hinting PR wouldn't seem reasonable.  I would assume that somebody claiming/hinting in a game this small is far more likely to be town than mafia.

 

 

Really? This isn't me being suspicious about you (yet), I'm just curious to see the way you think. I would assume that in a game so small, where the existence of PRs hasn't been confirmed or denied, there would be too much risk involved in claiming/hinting at a PR as Town unless you were sure you were on your very immediate way out? Theoretically, the amount of wriggle room granted in this instance to both alignments would be the same, but the risk to Town would probably be higher. Because of that risk I would think Town may be less likely to claim, which in my mind makes it more likely that such claims would come from scum than Town, if that makes sense. What would mafia have to lose?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

clov, i'm missing something from you.

 

what is your read on me?

 

You're in my mafia pool right now.  Throwing names out there earlier in response to...Tress?...when she asked who would be the one mafia and then trying to go back and say they weren't your reads doesn't make any sense to me.  You seem to be all over the place and the number of things I can't follow your thought process is considerably lower than the number of things I can.

 

 

 

I'm fighting off a cold and drained after 6+ hours of NFL Playoffs and chores. So I'm too lazy to do my typical Yates quote then respond thing...

Feel better!!

 

@Tress - Two questions for you, my lovely: 1. Would you mind explaining to me your read on BFG? I think you have more experience with her than I do and I'd like to know what you are seeing. And 2. Would you mind explaining your Thane read a little more as well? I'm a little confused as I read through your progression on him because sometimes it looks to me like you think he's scum but then you also say he is likely being "set up."

A'ight, I'll do the best I can for now.

 

1) Regarding BFG, I think she's responded well to the pressure you and Clov have put on her, and answered the questions that were raised sufficiently.  I didn't necessarily like parts of her argument against no lynch, but otherwise her end of day engagement was good and it felt like she was trying to resolve question marks.  I really want to hear more from her now that D2 has started, but I am not willing to lynch her today barring a really convincing case or a cop guilty.

 

2) Regarding Thane, he's always a big question mark for me.  I expect he'll come back in and explain his low participation, but that's really a null.  The main reason I think he's a somewhat poor suspect is that I don't believe he'd be clumsy enough to pointedly comment on jmm's PR hint, then nightkill him.  Not to say it's impossible, but it seems like a really amateur move, and as hard a time as I have discerning his alignment most games, I have a lot of respect for his instincts.    He's still in my questionable list, and we definitely need more from him today - hopefully all is well with him and his family, and we'll hear from him within a few hours

 

 

Is BFG your top town read now then?  I seem to recall you feeling pretty good about Cass earlier, so I'm trying to straighten your order out in my head.

 

 

@Sili - Serious question; why did you say this: "don't know why the wolves thought jmm would be a power role?" You are a clever pony and I'd like some help understanding your motivation here.

 

 

Easy villa points. Plus I had to distance myself from the kill due to a couple things I said and the way things went down at eod.

 

 

I don't understand how you think you saying that would earn you "easy villa points".  But this post just sounds awful.   People trying to distance themselves from kills is usually a bad sign...

 

 

The bold doesn't seem to fit with the tone of the rest of your post. Do you really mean to say you understand more of what Sili says than what you don't, or was this an 'unfortunate' typo?

 

 

Bold is a reverse of what I was getting at.  It should have said higher.

 

 

 

Really? This isn't me being suspicious about you (yet), I'm just curious to see the way you think. I would assume that in a game so small, where the existence of PRs hasn't been confirmed or denied, there would be too much risk involved in claiming/hinting at a PR as Town unless you were sure you were on your very immediate way out? Theoretically, the amount of wriggle room granted in this instance to both alignments would be the same, but the risk to Town would probably be higher. Because of that risk I would think Town may be less likely to claim, which in my mind makes it more likely that such claims would come from scum than Town, if that makes sense. What would mafia have to lose?

 

First, I'm pretty sure the existence of PRs has been confirmed.  No, I won't say more than that.

 

Second, not just actual PR's hint/claim - vanillas have incentive to suggest they have abilities as well.  Especially early on.   And I think mafia has FAR more to lose - if they hint and stick around, they're going to eventually have to commit to a claim (allowing for the possibility of CC's) and provide results (opening up the chance of being caught in a lie).  Unless they were given safe claims, there's no advantage to doing it.

 

 

Ok, thanks 

[Cass]

Anyway, I'm going back to where I was, the thread doesn't make much sense read out of order

 

 

 

 

Honestly not great :/ but last game we were in I read him like this (inconsistency, seemingly random reads that change quickly and rapidly) and he flipped town. When he subbed in he was far less engaged objectively speaking. He didn't engage at all in the Wind in the Door game, although I think that would probably be a low point in his career.

 

This game he's engaged in a way I haven't seen him replicate as mafia yet. Additionally some of your points read differently to me as for once I was able to have in thread interaction.

 

Thanks for explaining. I went back and re-read trying to take some of this on board. Quoting here now as a reminder in case he does flip scum and it turns out that you're 'wrong' ;)

 

To be honest, I'm worried that I'm wrong and that I'll be left with nothing but flipping a coin to determine alignment

 

 

Totally get you. Here.

[BFG]

BFG, I didn't see a reply to my explanation for reading Yates.  Did that help at all?

I lost DM last night so didn't finish catching up, just as well as it forced me to bed. I don't have much time this morning, so I'm not sure how much further I'll get. I'm on about page 30 atom, but thanks for responding

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm in for a bit, have some work to do around the house though.

[Sili Quirrels]

I'm one of those people who don't remember names very well in real life. My mood is pliable, and I have a kinesthetic memory. Even though kinesthetic only conveys a little about the way I catalogue events it's a hallmark archetype so it might be useful as far as labels go. More importantly I seem to gauge events through emotional feedback, filling in the blanks automatically. I compare patterns, I remember patterns, and I feel this or that long before I think this or that. The more I go over a specific piece of information the more easily accessible it is, but unfortunately my verbal and visual cognitive functions aren't up to par. I tend to compensate by applying patterns and inference. I usually only need a very small sample to do a lot of guess work because of my tacit pattern recall.

 

Another way of putting it is, I look at a thing and my head can see the outlines of a bigger thing. This projection isn't necessserily true, or outside the box, and narrowing it down so I'm looking at the right patterns from the right angle is usually what I'm doing in a game, but it is useful for intuitive leaps. Yet I sometimes assume answers are quite obvious and everyone is thinking from the same page and it can look like an inconsistency when I'm not careful.

 

Like right now, the way my mood is, I think it's thane and clov. To get at this I need to ignore the small concerns about bfg, the fact I'm afraid I'm wrong about thane because i've misread him in the past, and the fact lynching clov is daunting and I might very well be wrong anyway. Also tress, but I've said enough about her.

 

But my mood will change and my small concerns, my nagging doubts, and the fears will get the better of me, and new concerns will take their place.

 

So in regards to my op at the start of the day, i was thinking from a page where jmm's claim was already considered outlandish.

[Cass]

I'm one of those people who don't remember names very well in real life. My mood is pliable, and I have a kinesthetic memory. Even though kinesthetic only conveys a little about the way I catalogue events it's a hallmark archetype so it might be useful as far as labels go. More importantly I seem to gauge events through emotional feedback, filling in the blanks automatically. I compare patterns, I remember patterns, and I feel this or that long before I think this or that. The more I go over a specific piece of information the more easily accessible it is, but unfortunately my verbal and visual cognitive functions aren't up to par. I tend to compensate by applying patterns and inference. I usually only need a very small sample to do a lot of guess work because of my tacit pattern recall.

 

Another way of putting it is, I look at a thing and my head can see the outlines of a bigger thing. This projection isn't necessserily true, or outside the box, and narrowing it down so I'm looking at the right patterns from the right angle is usually what I'm doing in a game, but it is useful for intuitive leaps. Yet I sometimes assume answers are quite obvious and everyone is thinking from the same page and it can look like an inconsistency when I'm not careful.

 

Like right now, the way my mood is, I think it's thane and clov. To get at this I need to ignore the small concerns about bfg, the fact I'm afraid I'm wrong about thane because i've misread him in the past, and the fact lynching clov is daunting and I might very well be wrong anyway. Also tress, but I've said enough about her.

 

But my mood will change and my small concerns, my nagging doubts, and the fears will get the better of me, and new concerns will take their place.

 

So in regards to my op at the start of the day, i was thinking from a page where jmm's claim was already considered outlandish.

 

Sili - wow. I actually really liked that post, or most of it.

 

I'm not sure how 'not remembering names' IRL relates to the game or your description of yourself, but most of the rest of it actually makes sense - in relation to how I mostly read your play and in relation to what I know about myself. With the caveat that this could still be a very clever Wolf post (it's somewhat reminiscent 'strategy'-wise of Kiv) it actually doesn't really have that feel or tone. You may be sucking me in, but for once I'm not feeling like I'm almost certainly walking into a trap. The only thing I'm really iffy about here is the considerable link to emotion that you've used in your description of yourself - I see/sense/interpret you as more of a brain person than an emotional sensor and I don't actually see you 'gauging events through emotional feedback' or (emotionally) 'feeling' patterns before you think them. 

 

I think this could be potentially a problem with the words you've used, rather than with what you may be trying to say. For example, what you're saying there would match my sense of you more clearly if instead of saying that you 'feel' patterns before you think them you had said that you actually 'know' or 'have' them automatically - like a mathematician who 'knows' an 'answer' to a complicated problem even before he sits down and writes out/learns how the steps and results of the actual answer are correct. Mentally intuitive rather than emotionally intuitive, if that makes sense? (And, is that right/what you were trying to say with the thing about the outlines in your head?).

 

I totally see/sense you working with patterns. All the time. It's one of the things that bugs me with you because patterns are really not my thing. Sensing is, Logic is, and I am one of those 'emotionally' intuitive people - but I really have to work hard to figure the blanks of mental patterns out, most times. Usually, when I gain an 'understanding' of how somebody reaches a conclusion, what I gain is more actually a sense of clean logic relating to where they're coming from and a sense that the conclusion they are proffering is legit, rather than actually understanding why/how the patterns they are indicating are 'right'. I think it's where most of my paranoia comes from, with this game, because patterns are pretty much key. And I am wary of people who use patterns to explain where they're coming from, especially if I don't 'see' what they're explaining early on, and especially if they do it in strange ways because I know they are my weak spot and the place I'm most likely to struggle personally/get tripped up (contextually by clever Wolves). So yes, I see you working with patterns, and I'm wary because I very often don't understand. I don't know if what you're saying (the 'answer' you are giving) is true and I from what you've just said I think it makes it even worse for me when your 'mood' or 'intuitive leaps' start filling in the mental gaps. There will likely be no way I can or will 'follow' you there, and yes, it is likely to seem inconsistent to me when the mood I'm sensing doesn't match what I understand of the pattern you're proffering. There, I am always likely to read you as Wilf deliberately leading me down the garden path, even if you're Town. 

 

If you are a wolf who can consistently do this (have me always 'sensing' that you are Town) and get away with it (good luck!), I have pretty much just handed over the manual on how to keep me floundering for an entire game. However, I have also just seen that you are capable of explaining how you work to me, in a way that I sense is more likely true than false, with mental logic I can understand. So, frankly, I will be immediately on your train if I sense again (in this or any game, correctly or otherwise) that you're trying to dupe me from here on in, I am not convinced that you are not a wolf here, but I'm am sensing that that post was fairly squarely Town - and that it potentially relates to a lot of my concern with you this game. So if you've pulled that off as Wolf here's to you and I'm insta-lynching you in every single game, out of the gate, forevermore lol. You're not completely clear, some of your conclusions are still strange to me (bold red for those reasons - i)I'm developing some 'concerns' about BFG that don't sense 'small' to me, ii)Clov is currently my most-likely Town and iii)whilst I personally felt at the time that jmm's hint was most likely wolfish, I didn't/don't think it could exactly be considered 'outlandish' at any point) so I'm watching you for suss, and I will totally, completely kick myself and be freaked out by this post of yours later if I'm wrong, but

 

[v]unvote[/u]

 

:blink:I think I'm moving on.

[Cass]

Gah.

 

[v]unvote[/v]

 

... moving on...

[Thane Vakarian]

here, for about 7 hours. 

 

If questions, go ahead. I'm at work, so i might not reply illediately, but i will get to you

[Cass]

No questions for you just yet Thane lawbreaker, you're currently top of my list to re-read, after BFG.

 

I am here, but with a lot of reading to catch up on. Will keep this page open and check if people want to chat.

 

Enjoy work 

[Thane Vakarian]

enjoy work? it's raining, it's madness...

[Thane Vakarian]

i tried to cath up, but all i saw was big WoT's.... i blame lack of caffeine.

[Yates]

I don't have a ton of time this morning but this needs to be said; Sili is Town. Like - Innocent Chil Town. 100%.

[Thane Vakarian]

hmm.... ok.... why?

[Thane Vakarian]

doesn't need to be quotes, long answers, just your reason to think so

[Yates]

hmm.... ok.... why?

I'm the Sili Whisperer this game?

 

I can't elaborate but it has to do with this...

remember that i said i was stuck between two metas after the game. that'll make things a little clearer.

 

[Thane Vakarian]

... it's a bit vague... 

[Thane Vakarian]

but sure, why not? Read his post here, and yeah, it feels good to UNVOTE

 

Now, Yates... if you could vig someone, who would it be?

 

Same question for all present btw. 

[Songstress]

Hey Sili. Are you there?

[Songstress]

I think you're there.  *nods at self*

 

How's my favorite impatient pessimist today?

 

Ready for me to get to my point?

[Thane Vakarian]

you do know how to build tension Tress

[Songstress]

you do know how to build tension Tress

 

I was a Theatre minor in college.

 

Is what I do.

[Thane Vakarian]

that's good to know 

[Songstress]

I was also a Radio/TV major, with a focus on news.

 

I like lots of attention when I'm about to make an announcement.