[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

[Songstress]

also, tress, you started this with saying 'i naturally seem scummy for you'. well is there any difference between then and now?

 

if so what makes you think i've been especially scummy.

Patience. I told you last night I was going to get to a point.

 

It'll have to wait until I get home from work tonight.

[Sili Quirrels]

you make it incredibly difficult to town read you

[Sili Quirrels]

harder than thane. like maybe you don't care, because for some unfathomable reason you're absolutely convinced i'm scum and am acting here, but it really is the most rediculous thing if you're a villager.

 

you've built this up for a day or 2. you've prodded and soft-nudged it to death, misrepresented, all so you could build one big case that i can't possibly respond to effectively as you form your own sort of narrative?

 

like, i don't know how this helps town's wincondition.

[Songstress]

you make it incredibly difficult to town read you

Right back at ya, darlin'

[Songstress]

harder than thane. like maybe you don't care, because for some unfathomable reason you're absolutely convinced i'm scum and am acting here, but it really is the most rediculous thing if you're a villager.

 

you've built this up for a day or 2. you've prodded and soft-nudged it to death, misrepresented, all so you could build one big case that i can't possibly respond to effectively as you form your own sort of narrative?

 

like, i don't know how this helps town's wincondition.

You really aren't very patient, are you?

[Cass]

Sorry. Meant to get around to this stuff earlier last night but got distracted with the insanity that is the mishmash over at POG. Gah. *Gets back to hunting*
 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

 

 

 

there could be

 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

if scum think there's a power role maybe they have good reason to.

 

as an aside, i thought you thought i was a wolf.

 

 

 

Sili - Did you ever answer my question about why you changed your stance on Tress?

uh, no. i need to educate myself before i feel comfortable saying more.

 

 

 

 

there could be

 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

if scum think there's a power role maybe they have good reason to.

 

as an aside, i thought you thought i was a wolf.

 

I'm in the process of recalibrating my reads.

 

You're still a strong possibility IMO.

 

Assuming your theory of one mafia, who would you say is the most likely?

 

 

 

it's not a theory.

 

thane and you?

 

uh, doesn't seem like it's clov or yates but it could be. i would need to reread to get a better picture.

 

 

 

it's not a theory.

 

thane and you?

 

uh, doesn't seem like it's clov or yates but it could be. i would need to reread to get a better picture.

 

Why Thane?

 

 

 

Also... "It's not a theory."

 

So you brought it up out of the blue but don't actually think it's true?  Just trying to make sure I'm understanding you here.

 

 

 

Also... "It's not a theory."

 

So you brought it up out of the blue but don't actually think it's true?  Just trying to make sure I'm understanding you here.

excuse me, i brought up the possibility it was implied. without knowing who, what, or why it's best not to make dangerous assumptions like that.

 

 

 

This whole thing gives me tinfoil, potential clever-W-W-distraction-distancing heebie-jeebies. That is all.

[Sili Quirrels]

But I'm not tunneling you without saying anything.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

harder than thane. like maybe you don't care, because for some unfathomable reason you're absolutely convinced i'm scum and am acting here, but it really is the most rediculous thing if you're a villager.

 

you've built this up for a day or 2. you've prodded and soft-nudged it to death, misrepresented, all so you could build one big case that i can't possibly respond to effectively as you form your own sort of narrative?

 

like, i don't know how this helps town's wincondition.

You really aren't very patient, are you?

 

no. you're just being difficult.

[Sili Quirrels]

Sorry. Meant to get around to this stuff earlier last night but got distracted with the insanity that is the mishmash over at POG. Gah. *Gets back to hunting*

 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

 

 

 

there could be

 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

if scum think there's a power role maybe they have good reason to.

 

as an aside, i thought you thought i was a wolf.

 

 

 

Sili - Did you ever answer my question about why you changed your stance on Tress?

uh, no. i need to educate myself before i feel comfortable saying more.

 

 

 

 

there could be

 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

if scum think there's a power role maybe they have good reason to.

 

as an aside, i thought you thought i was a wolf.

 

I'm in the process of recalibrating my reads.

 

You're still a strong possibility IMO.

 

Assuming your theory of one mafia, who would you say is the most likely?

 

 

 

it's not a theory.

 

thane and you?

 

uh, doesn't seem like it's clov or yates but it could be. i would need to reread to get a better picture.

 

 

 

it's not a theory.

 

thane and you?

 

uh, doesn't seem like it's clov or yates but it could be. i would need to reread to get a better picture.

 

Why Thane?

 

 

 

Also... "It's not a theory."

 

So you brought it up out of the blue but don't actually think it's true?  Just trying to make sure I'm understanding you here.

 

 

 

Also... "It's not a theory."

 

So you brought it up out of the blue but don't actually think it's true?  Just trying to make sure I'm understanding you here.

excuse me, i brought up the possibility it was implied. without knowing who, what, or why it's best not to make dangerous assumptions like that.

 

 

 

This whole thing gives me tinfoil, potential clever-W-W-distraction-distancing heebie-jeebies. That is all.

No, she is legit tunneling me for unstated reasons. I would swear right now, but alas.

[Cass]

Also, good morning :)

 

I prob won't interact much real-time right now, I'm just going back and replying to specifics again. Re-reading and I may have some things to reconsider.

 

 

 

Sorry. Meant to get around to this stuff earlier last night but got distracted with the insanity that is the mishmash over at POG. Gah. *Gets back to hunting*
 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

 

 

 

there could be

 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

if scum think there's a power role maybe they have good reason to.

 

as an aside, i thought you thought i was a wolf.

 

 

 

Sili - Did you ever answer my question about why you changed your stance on Tress?

uh, no. i need to educate myself before i feel comfortable saying more.

 

 

 

 

there could be

 

 

i thought about it. there are 8 players, so what power roles can you even fit?

 

maybe this implies there's only 1 wolf.

 

So you're thinking zero power roles, 1 mafia?

 

That would certainly be interesting.

if scum think there's a power role maybe they have good reason to.

 

as an aside, i thought you thought i was a wolf.

 

I'm in the process of recalibrating my reads.

 

You're still a strong possibility IMO.

 

Assuming your theory of one mafia, who would you say is the most likely?

 

 

 

it's not a theory.

 

thane and you?

 

uh, doesn't seem like it's clov or yates but it could be. i would need to reread to get a better picture.

 

 

 

it's not a theory.

 

thane and you?

 

uh, doesn't seem like it's clov or yates but it could be. i would need to reread to get a better picture.

 

Why Thane?

 

 

 

Also... "It's not a theory."

 

So you brought it up out of the blue but don't actually think it's true?  Just trying to make sure I'm understanding you here.

 

 

 

Also... "It's not a theory."

 

So you brought it up out of the blue but don't actually think it's true?  Just trying to make sure I'm understanding you here.

excuse me, i brought up the possibility it was implied. without knowing who, what, or why it's best not to make dangerous assumptions like that.

 

 

 

This whole thing gives me tinfoil, potential clever-W-W-distraction-distancing heebie-jeebies. That is all.

No, she is legit tunneling me for unstated reasons. I would swear right now, but alas.

 

 

This may be one of them 

[Sili Quirrels]

you mean my frustration. Seriously? you think that's a tell of some kind?

[Cass]

 

 

 

lack of volume. yates says that's a scum tell. plus some of his reads are a little hollow compared to what they purport, like the ones on me and jmm.

 

well i feel that way anyway.

 

So you're basing your read heavily on what Yates thinks?  What if Yates is mafia, would that change your opinion of Thane's play?

 

it's not a read. =|

 

 

I will never understand how your brain works.

 

 

Mindmeld the bold, but then *insert paranoia here*

[Sili Quirrels]

remember that i said i was stuck between two metas after the game. that'll make things a little clearer.

[Cass]

Good morning :)

 

I got caught up rereading yesterday. Unfortunately I don't have time to write my thoughts before work. I more or less finished Day 1, there are a couple of pages I skimmed through which I want to check.

 

A couple of things, Tress, Clov why were you voting No Lynch. I understand your not wanting it to go random argument, but my experience in these sort of games is that people will consolidate at the end of day.

 

Cass, you don't seem to like me asking vig/cop/doc... it's a way of finding out what people think... vig strongest suspect, cop person most unsure of/second strongest suspect (bit more complicated as there are lots of reasons to cop someone), doc strongest town suspect... I don't feel like at the time I had much info to go on for those 2.

Sorry missed this yesterday. You were right that it stood/stands out to me as something to be wary of. I can see the benefit of it (and thanks for going to the effort to explain), I'm just wary that it's probably at least equally as useful as a strategy for scum as it is for Town, and I don't really have much to go on for you, as it stands.

 

Where do you stand?

[BFG]

Ugh I just lost my response 3/4 finished

 

We're out for dinner now, I'll start again when I'm back

[Sili Quirrels]

town has probably lost.

[Clovdyx]

Can the people town reading Yates give their opinion on the above as well? (I suspect this is how Cass felt wrt Sili Day 1 and possibly still does)

 

Sure.  I'm townreading him because once he started explaining things, he seemed to be coming from a similar mindset as me, and the questions he's asking seem to be driving at better understanding/solve.  There are some things we've taken different approaches on, but I can at least understand where he's coming from.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, Yates, i know you appreciate games we're both in, and you're quite capable in reading me, but don't try to buddy too hard, might be suspicious   

You need to check out the beer thread.  I had a super rare Belgian beer the other night and thought of you...   

 

My plan is to pocket you.  See how you respond.  Serious question; when is the last time I read you wrong?  I want to see that comfortable, free thinking, shoot from the hip Thane Town so I'm setting you up for it.  And if a "Be Nice" game isn't the proper format to get you to that place, I don't know what is.

 

 

 

 

This came off as strange to me, but I was willing to give him some room to work.  I've never been good at reading Thane, and his free thinking/shoot from the hip approach is what usually gets him in trouble with me.  Yates doesn't necessarily have this problem so once I was able to establish what he had in mind, it seemed coming from a townie-POV (encouraging Thane to open up).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You claim she's a scum lean but you treat her as Town. Do you not recall this discussion?

You didn't, as far as I can tell, imply anything like that.

 

Not to make this into too big of a deal but, what?? You claim you called BFG a scum suspect. I acknowledge that. I read it. It's pretty clear. Then you go on to respond to BFG throughout all of Page 7 in a tone that suggests [to me] you already know she's Town. [Granted; tone reading is a skill I'm trying to hone.] So when you claim I never "commented" on the fact that you called BFG a scum read, you are missing the fact that it is implied that I'm commenting on it when I ask BFG what she thinks about you treating her like you know she's Town. This question only really makes sense if I already know that you called her scummy and thus your tone made the question pertinent given your stated read. Follow?

 

You eschew,

I'm waiting for my scum list to town tell, then I'll start over by adjusting my expectations and rereading.

 

Yeah. Pretty much. I actually kind of wait for ANYONE to Town tell to a degree I recognize so I can focus my scum hunting elsewhere. I kind of pride myself on not Town tunneling and think I've done a pretty decent job of late. That's how I accomplish that feat. But what's the point of this statement [accusation?]?

 

 

From your quoted excerpts, coded blue. I had bfg as scum by poe. It was not a strong stance and I was looking for reasons to change my mind. I imply this by the quote you left out and my inclusion of clov as a scum lean.

What did I leave out? It's possible I misunderstood something or wasn't following your train of thought...

 

You promised you would go into detail how I treat Bfg as town. The most I think you can say is we cooperate to meet an ends, and that's pretty much all I got from reading thrice. You'll have to help me.

Best laid plans of mice and men. I'm just going to call it "tone" rather then spend the 1000 words it would take to explain why that appears to be the case.

 

The point is linking players to me is a good part of your content, and so I ask, how is insinuating scum partners without case building early day 1 without a single flip conducive to hunting scum?

I was being cheeky with you and Cass. Really, I was trying to coax a reaction out of you two, as you already suspected. Cass fell for it and I think her reaction was on point. So she got the first Equestria Town Carrot. Your response is automagically void because you knew what I was doing and admitted to it.

 

Your tone with BFG, given your stated opinion of her alignment, struck me ass odd and is a completely separate event. It's just coincidence, really, that it happened to be you. Again. Or, maybe it's not coincidence so much as simple math.

 

It's pure tinfoil right?

See? You did it again. Now you are treating ME like you know I'm Town. It can't be "tinfoil" unless you know I'm Town.

 

Like, say I flip Scum, what are you going to do - lynch bfg because we worked together for a page? From a villager's point of view (e.g. mine) it seems frivolous and maybe destructive depending on the roster's gullibility, because I could very well be in anti-spew and as a matter of fact, scum treating a player like town usually means that player is town.

 

Like jmm has been doing for me.

 

And you say I've been doing for bfg.

I agree with the bold. If you were to flip scum, I would think that would clear me, BFG, and Cass [to a lesser degree]. At least it would weigh favorably in my evaluation of BFG and Cass's alignments.

 

 

 

 

I don't really get this impression at all from their interactions.  There is something that stood out to me, but I'm hoping you can give an example or explain what you mean before I show it.

As I told Sili, it's mostly tone. Let me see if I can pull up a quote or two that really emphasizes what I mean...

 

Okay, here's I think the exchange that felt too familiar to me:

 

Lol, misunderstood what you said, I agree with the general meta on Thane. I disagree with 'the wolf' though, it reads as a continuation of 'teh mafia' started by Tress and thus a deliberate use of words and not an unconscious use.

ah i see. i'm still leaning town on him but i'm a little more scared now. i'll be watching him carefully.

Sure. MAYBE Sili is just "working together," as he says. But something about that doesn't feel natural if Sili is assuming BFG is scum.

 

But the other thing that bothers me is the same thing I just busted Sili for:

Sili, given 2 mafia who are you most likely to tinfoil on at the moment?

Here, BFG is assuming Sili is Town. That's why I said earlier that it felt like at least one of them knew the other's alignment. And it's not like BFG really went after Sili. That whole page reads like a limp distancing argument. And that's in my minus column for BFG. This isn't really something I was prepared to talk about but it seems as though the cat's out of the bag so let's make it public and discuss...

 

 

 

 

 

Here, he's viewing the interactions between Sili and you with a similar mindset of my own.  You can probably justify the tinfoil discussion as semantics if you want, but I think there's some substance to it.  If you come into a thread and immediately view somebody as scum, is that tinfoiling?  IMO no - because you're not reading them as town.  If I was to start worrying about someone like Cass - that is, somebody I've been strongly supporting the entire game - without a major change, THAT would be tinfoil.

 

For you to approach Sili the way you did, it made it seem like you had a considerably stronger stance on his alignment than you should have.  I think you answered well enough to lower my suspicions, but obviously Yates saw the same thing I did* so I get the feeling he's trying to make the same sort of conclusions I am.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you explain??

Not to speak for Clov but I'm going to because I almost made the same post. Using your example; we are assuming there are 2 scum in 5 slots. That's a 40% chance of hitting scum discounting game play. Another way of looking at it is that there's a 60% chance of hitting Town. If we *do* hit Town, we are in MYLO on DAY 2 with, in theory, only 1 investigation result. If that result is an innocent? We're pretty much screwed.

 

The only reason I didn't bring this up is because we are almost equally screwed if scum guess right and kill the cop tonight since our doc [assuming we have a protective role] has their worst chance of protecting the cop on N1. But, of course, the cop is also more likely to investigate the person we would have lynched and if that person is scum, we bought scum an extra night.

 

But as I think it through further, scum have in theory a 2/6 chance of killing a Town PR if we no lynch and a 2/5 chance of killing a Town PR if we mislynch [assuming we don't mislynch a PR!].

 

I'm having a de ja vu moment discussing optimal play...

 

 

 

 

 

He ended up (temporarily) flopping in favor of a lynch due to the thought of it going random, but he seems concerned about extending the game for the best scenario at endgame.  He's a smart enough dude to do that as scum, sure, but it's at least a pro-town mindset.  

 

This phase, he's been asking questions to try to probe Sili and Tress' minds (why Sili commented on Jmm's death the way he did/why Tress left it where she did).  These COULD be used as set-up questions, but he's been following up with them frequently and I just don't feel he's been painting either in a way that deliberately makes them look worse than they should.

[Sili Quirrels]

mislynch -> cass dies -> 3/2 lylo.

[Songstress]

mislynch -> cass dies -> 3/2 lylo.

Impatient and a pessimist - I feel I have learned a lot about you.

[Sili Quirrels]

i'm being realistic, all considered.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

What are you even saying? Of course I have an idea of who to start with, but suspicions do not equate to reads. the names i gave, all 4, were suspects: i.e. people I wanted to check out.

 

I would argue the exact opposite.  If I say "I'm suspicious of Tina", that basically implies she's a scum candidate.  If I say "I'm not suspicious of Cory", there's the implication I think he's town.  But whatever.  I'm not going to spend more time getting into an argument on the differences on between reads/leans/opinions.

 

ok, I actually agree with you about the implications of stuff being implied, but why didn't you take it up with Yates earlier when he did something similar?

 

 

The problem I have is that if you're reading Sili strongly enough to use that as a basis for linking mafia suspects (even if you later move on) why aren't you voting? This lack of conviction from you is very disconcerting :/

As I sort of explained to Sili, I'm really just using relationships to inform my tone reads. I'm not even sure I've called Sili scum outside of my reaction fish.

 

 

 

I don't feel the two situations are really that similar.  Yates clearly acknowledges his reads are what they are.  Sili's statement made it seem like he wasn't reading people the way his answers would suggest (ie, naming...you and Thane, I think?.. as the most likely candidates if there was only one mafia but NOT reading either of you as scum).

 

Your confusion about him not voting Sili despite what you perceived to be a strong read is fair.  But different things IMO

[Songstress]

i'm being realistic, all considered.

I'm gonna come back to this later.

 

Don't let me forget.

[Sili Quirrels]

yaya continue with your benign threats. i'm not scared, just a little irritated you'd make them.

[Songstress]

yaya continue with your benign threats. i'm not scared, just a little irritated you'd make them.

Assumptions!

 

You go on with your bad self, impatient pessimist!

[Clovdyx]

yaya continue with your benign threats. i'm not scared, just a little irritated you'd make them.

 

This doesn't sound like a town response to me.  Shouldn't you WANT her to put stuff in the thread?

 

I'm also not sure where she said whatever she has is directed at you.  Why so guilty?