[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

[Cass]

@ Sili (Extra/not necessarily game relevant)

 

FWIW, these are the other posts of yours that momentarily baffle me/seem to rub me the wrong way and potentially contribute to/go against you in my perception of your overall vibe. I can't really explain why they irk me, but I think it's because they come across overly cryptic. Without explanations/references to particular players they're hard to understand if I'm not following your specific train of thought. I have to really search to try and understand who and what you're referencing and that makes it difficult to understand/analyse your motivations for making such 'random' comments in the first place.  

 

 

 

Good content.

Who? What?

 

It makes me happy when my villagers are town telling.

Who? What?

 

Whistles to self.

What? Why?

 

There are holes and redirections and misrepresentations but i really like the tone.

Will go in to more detail later

Who? What? Why mention this so cryptically if you're planning to explain?

 

Ill try to consider objectively whether i was pocketed

What?

 

...

i think jmm hasn't read the thread.

What? How/why? (from memory this was from one of jmm's more 'explanatory' posts, thus suggested to me that he had been considering what he'd read in thread?)

 

 

 

 

Again, not necessarily relevant to your alignment in the current game, just explanation for the future, in case you're not doing this intentionally. (Spoilered because they're not specifically relevant to the current game/Questions here don't need to be answered, they're an explanation of my thoughts so you can see what I mean).

[Cass]

That took forever. Catching up...

[Songstress]

tress :/

 

jmm isn't even paying attention to the thread... he doesn't 'care'. last game he 'cared' even when mechanically clear. Why would he be paying less attention this time?

 

You're really sketching me out here.

 

 

Why am I sketching you out? 

[Songstress]

Tress you still here?

 

Fading fast.  I need to get some sleep soon if I'm going to be awake and coherent much before deadline.

[Sili Quirrels]

Probably difference of playstyles.

[BFG]

Vig/Doc/Cop?

 

I feel like I have nothing to go on for you and Thane (and you showed up first :) hope you're feeling better!)

[Songstress]

Probably difference of playstyles.

 

Well there is that.

[BFG]

Above for Tress

[Sili Quirrels]

Mobile doesnt help i guess

[Songstress]

Vig/Doc/Cop?

 

I feel like I have nothing to go on for you and Thane (and you showed up first :) hope you're feeling better!)

 

Vig (my least favorite thing ever) whichever of Sili or jmm doesn't get lynched or I feel worst about at the moment, although if it wasn't compulsory I'd holster.

 

Doc Cass, because she's the towniest town in the thread.

 

Cop Yates, because he's the one who I'll be tinfoiling on all game.

[BFG]

Lol, I felt almost mean asking :(

 

That's pretty much what I thought you'd say :)

[Songstress]

I'm feeling quite a bit less turrible tonight, hopefully the stomach bug is on its way out the door. 

 

My hero:

[Cass]

Game-relevant me in blue.

 

 

 

[v]No Lynch[/v]

 

 

By my math, we have about 18 hours left and need 5 votes of 8 on one target or it goes random.  I think Cass is definitely town, and I still like Yates to be town.  Between them and myself, RNGesus has about a 40% chance of hitting someone I'm not cool lynching.  Not great odds.

 

Also think NL should give us an extra day phase.  If there's only one kill a night - highly likely given the game size -, then a mislynch today and tomorrow (coupled with a successful kill each night) seals it following N2.  No Lynch makes the earliest loss D3.

 

I'm willing to vote no lynch if necessary to achieve a majority, although my preference is to lynch our strongest suspect for mafia. If not enough people are confident in their scum reads, no lynch would be an OK choice in this small of a game, IMO.

 

 

Where is everyone with their scum reads? After my marathon Sili examination I'm pretty happy with my vote, but it concerns me other people aren't voting (am I just complete tinfoil??) and I understand the logic of NL if we're not going to get a majority vote. I think we need to figure this out asap.

 

 

i spent a long time on it. was it good different or bad different?

I thought it was good, although like I said in the previous posts, don't interpret it as indicative of alignment. Although, strangely, this question seems more obviously Town than other thing's you've said.

 

 

 

Full reads list:

 

2. Clov - Town lean. Reading through his posts, he's asking good questions, and I can follow where he's coming from. The No Lynch suggestion is a pretty good one if we're not confident in a mafia suspect.

 

3. Yates - Gut wants to say town, but Yates has been known to fool me so I have to keep that little bit of tinfoil in the back of my head and say "mild town lean with an option to do a 180". His early Sili/Cass and Sili/BFG commentary was actually very close to my own thoughts, so I won't mark him down for "linking".  I think he's explained himself well in response to Cass and Sili.

 

4. Thane - not a lot to go on, but the reads he's posted I can see as legit.  I'll put him in the null pile for now, slightly on the town side.

 

5. jmm  - Still waiting for elaboration on more of his reads, which don't all make a lot of sense to me.  The interaction between him and Sili reads a little strange to me, and I'm not sure what to make of it.  Questionable, slight scum lean. 

 

6. Cass - Strong town lean.  The #work is phenomenal. Could do with a tiny bit less tinfoiling, but if she's scum, I'll concede right now.  

 

7. BFG - Initially was leaning slightly scum here, but her responses to the (good IMO) points Yates and Clov were making were actually quite reasonable. Mixed read right now, I can see it both ways.  I also noticed in reading through her posts that there were a couple of things directed at me that I skimmed over, I'll come back to those questions.

 

8. Sili - Was really not fond of the post announcing that he likes to change up his reads a lot which people find scummy - I'm never a fan of "pre-excusing scummy behavior" posts, TBH, regardless of whether it seemed like a good idea at the time.  It comes across as self-conscious and draws more attention to it.  The reasons he's given for town reads and scum reads have been super thin and questionable in most cases.  Especially finding his interactions with jmm awkward - see this post and this post where he takes the "2 or 1 mafia" question a step further and tries to imply that jmm is actually suggesting/entertaining the possibility of 3 mafia.  I'm willing to bet that everyone in this game expects there to be 2 mafia, and trying to push the idea that jmm is suggesting there may be 3, while also suggesting that he said "2" before "1" because he knew there were 2 (instead of because he thought it was a more likely answer).... not a lot of sense.  I don't think his responses to Cass and Yates have been particularly convincing...  overall, leaning mafia here.

 

A Tress! *Hugs* Mind-melding with most of this, except for the thing on Clov, but that's my next focus of attention so ...  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't associate town Thane with 'guarded' play or words...

Welp. That's the one tell I was hinting at in my Thane post.

What do you make of the fact that Sili is talking to you as if he knows you are Town given your [and his] statement here???

 

<<<deleted>>>

His latest post:

 

Truth. I am very much taking that mindset, especially with Sili, since I tunneled him for a while last game

like, he knows i'm town, otherwise the matter of tunneling me when I'm scum wouldn't be significant to him. Why not tunnel me again, right?

 

Good point, and quoted again so he doesn't miss it.

 

I find it quite curious that Sili only has one vote given that so many people are finding him scummy, but I don't know what to make of it given the size of the game, I think I'll need to sleep on it.

Curious? Couple of thoughts here:
1. Just because Sili is holding a fork, it doesn't mean he stole the cake.
2. It's WAY early in the game.
3. Curse of the small game. I think people tend to be more cautious with votes in small games.

Now I have a Sili-BFG relationship to resolve...

 

Lol, it's actually his least reliable tell (but sorry), according to Tommy Thane was able to fake looseness and tone for a game (of course Tommy was possibly mafia in the game he said that - soon after SpaceBalls), so not sure how reliable an indication this actually is) there are other tells. He's sort of borderline for me so far.

Because Sili had a good point. Which Jmm still hasn't answered. Jmm tunnelled Silo (his words) in a game where Sili was mafia, why would he worry about that?

I find Sili very hard to read, and I typically read him scummy, this game his early involvement is in line with his town game, however he makes so many 'weird' statements and his opinion changes with the wind (if it wasn't the wrong author 'words are wind' would describe him well :) but that describes both mafia and town game) that it's hard to have faith n the read.


You played with Jmm last game? What's your opinion of him this game? Same to Tress who nodded that game and anyone else who played it.

 

 

 

The point Sili raised about tunneling is a good one - although some of the other points he's pushing jmm on aren't iMO.

 

Since there's only the one game to go off of, and jmm had an ace in the hole in that game that allowed him to play however he wanted, I don't know that previous game meta is going to help us this time.  Aside from his tunneling on Sili, I seem to recall thinking that some of his reads were weird, but he didn't explain them.  And he's not explaining them here either, so that's no help.  

 

The interactions between Sili and jmm are kinda throwing me for a loop - I'm leaning mafia on Sili right now for multiple reasons, and he's pushing jmm hard as scum.  My best guess is at least one of them is, although both of them being scum would require Sili to be hardcore distancing and pushing for the lynch of his teammate D1 (with a 2 person team sounds very risky) while the teammate very awkwardly declares him as town.    jmm scum and Sili town is a possibility, but I'm having a hard time with flat-out calling Sili town for the reasons I outlined in my reads list.  

 

I think we need more from jmm, and soon.

 

 

I have my own views/theories forming on jmm, and since he's seeming more pertinent might actually post them next. Basically I don't know what to make of his alignment this game, but I find his general style leans towards scum and I find him very hard to read.

 

 

For those who are terrible at time zones (like me, once you get outside the U.S. mainland) - I think deadline is about 13 hours from now.

 

Countdown link:

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20150110T21&p0=239&msg=DAY+ONE+DEADLINE&csz=1&swk=1

OMG I <3 YOU FOREVER FOR THIS. Please don't be scum!

 

 

tress :/

jmm isn't even paying attention to the thread... he doesn't 'care'. last game he 'cared' even when mechanically clear. Why would he be paying less attention this time?

You're really sketching me out here.

I said it before, but I don't see what you mean by 'isn't ... paying attention'. I don't like his apathy, but I don't know that that means he's not paying attention. Do you have something else?

 

 

Just a heads up that I might start having internet problems again :( (I could actually cry) I haven't been able to access DM for the past hour and couldn't access it last night after Cloudflare either

Oh noes!

 

I struggle to see that mafia can be as engaged and active in the thread as Sili is this game. Tommy has managed it occasionally, but even then most of the time as mafia he takes a back seat (comparatively speaking). As such I'm leaning Sili as town right now. His presence this game is also completely at odds with his previous game as mafia here, although that wasn't necessarily indicative of his actual mafia game.

I disagree. For me it's quality (communication/collaboration/transparency) that highlights likely Town, not quantity/volume. Just my 2c. 

 

Caught up to this post from BFG.

[Cass]

Will be back asap, dinner then my turn to bath ponylette and get her off to bed...

[Songstress]

A'ight, I needs to sleep.  I want to mull things over a bit more before I vote - torn between voting Sili as my top suspect and voting no lynch right now.  

 

Will attempt to get up at least a few hours before deadline to help contribute to discussion.  

[Sili Quirrels]

lol ya, fucking vig me.

[Cass]

lol ya, fucking vig me.

 

 

Sili, I swear, if you actually are Town and I'm tinfoiling, it's posts like this which mean I'm never going to understand you.

 

I'm taking a break for an hour or so, fighting off a headache.

[BFG]

Cass, I agree with the caveat that quality is subjective.

 

The majority of things you've posted are within his town range or at least not outside it as far as I can tell, the fact that he's engaging with the thread (and the amount he's doing so) is outside of the mafia range I have for him (although I don't think the game I'm basing that off is necessarily a good analogue for his mafia game). You've pointed out a few things that I view as mafia indicative, especially for tonal players, I don't have time now, but when I'm back later I'll grab them. I wanted to last night, but lol internet :/

 

Overall I'm leaning town, especially given his more recent posting, but I don't have a huge amount of confidence in the read yet.

 

I'm out for the day on a field trip, but I'll be back before deadline and will vote, I'll be musing throughout the day :)

[Niniel]

this is fucked. brb.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, yates is lying. I don't think anyone will believe me but... :/

 

Lying about what?  

 

I might be tunneling yates. It's hard to tell, so the least I can do is tell you what I find irksome about his poe list.

 

If my arguments are good maybe it will be persuasive... and if they aren't maybe I'm mistaken.

 

This is the post I claim he lies in,

By POE all of the scum are in you, Tress, BFG, and Thane.

 

Cass is Town 100% of the time, here. I don't recall seeing Clov scum but this is a pretty solid Clov Town approach to the game. Thane hasn't contributed enough and Tress has a medical excuse to not be contributing. Lack of content players are hard to judge. I'd feel good lynching in that pool and investigating there as well.

 

poe - Yates hasn't substantiated enough town reads to form a healthy poe day 1. The only reason poe is there is to imply he's done more work than he has.

poe includes 4 scum - 4 out of 7 players isn't a poe. it's a crapshoot.

Thane hasn't contributed enough - Thane isn't known for case building, but he has said a little about everyone. I think Yates misses it because he's looking for 'notable' content only which is wolfy.

Tress has a medical excuse - Yates is intensely aware of player status but not player content. To say neither thane or tress have much content to speak of is insanely reductive, and begging for poor reads.

Jmm isn't mentioned - Yates was reading jmm as null, but does not include him in a purported poe over 4 others. This means tress, thane, me, and bfg are all scum leans to him.

It's hard to judge low content players - Uses this to excuse Thane and Tress in a poe,  but does not include the lowest content poster.

Hedges on scum leans due to low content - instead of building a case on them.

Insterts clov as a new town read - but does not include jmm in the same breath.

 

Sili - Here's where I'm at IRT Yates...

 

 

 

 

 

You claim she's a scum lean but you treat her as Town. Do you not recall this discussion?

You didn't, as far as I can tell, imply anything like that.

 

Not to make this into too big of a deal but, what?? You claim you called BFG a scum suspect. I acknowledge that. I read it. It's pretty clear. Then you go on to respond to BFG throughout all of Page 7 in a tone that suggests [to me] you already know she's Town. [Granted; tone reading is a skill I'm trying to hone.] So when you claim I never "commented" on the fact that you called BFG a scum read, you are missing the fact that it is implied that I'm commenting on it when I ask BFG what she thinks about you treating her like you know she's Town. This question only really makes sense if I already know that you called her scummy and thus your tone made the question pertinent given your stated read. Follow?

 

You eschew,

I'm waiting for my scum list to town tell, then I'll start over by adjusting my expectations and rereading.

 

Yeah. Pretty much. I actually kind of wait for ANYONE to Town tell to a degree I recognize so I can focus my scum hunting elsewhere. I kind of pride myself on not Town tunneling and think I've done a pretty decent job of late. That's how I accomplish that feat. But what's the point of this statement [accusation?]?

 

 

From your quoted excerpts, coded blue. I had bfg as scum by poe. It was not a strong stance and I was looking for reasons to change my mind. I imply this by the quote you left out and my inclusion of clov as a scum lean.

What did I leave out? It's possible I misunderstood something or wasn't following your train of thought...

 

You promised you would go into detail how I treat Bfg as town. The most I think you can say is we cooperate to meet an ends, and that's pretty much all I got from reading thrice. You'll have to help me.

Best laid plans of mice and men. I'm just going to call it "tone" rather then spend the 1000 words it would take to explain why that appears to be the case.

 

The point is linking players to me is a good part of your content, and so I ask, how is insinuating scum partners without case building early day 1 without a single flip conducive to hunting scum?

I was being cheeky with you and Cass. Really, I was trying to coax a reaction out of you two, as you already suspected. Cass fell for it and I think her reaction was on point. So she got the first Equestria Town Carrot. Your response is automagically void because you knew what I was doing and admitted to it.

 

Your tone with BFG, given your stated opinion of her alignment, struck me ass odd and is a completely separate event. It's just coincidence, really, that it happened to be you. Again. Or, maybe it's not coincidence so much as simple math.

 

It's pure tinfoil right?

See? You did it again. Now you are treating ME like you know I'm Town. It can't be "tinfoil" unless you know I'm Town.

 

Like, say I flip Scum, what are you going to do - lynch bfg because we worked together for a page? From a villager's point of view (e.g. mine) it seems frivolous and maybe destructive depending on the roster's gullibility, because I could very well be in anti-spew and as a matter of fact, scum treating a player like town usually means that player is town.

 

Like jmm has been doing for me.

 

And you say I've been doing for bfg.

I agree with the bold. If you were to flip scum, I would think that would clear me, BFG, and Cass [to a lesser degree]. At least it would weigh favorably in my evaluation of BFG and Cass's alignments.

 

 

 

I don't really get this impression at all from their interactions.  There is something that stood out to me, but I'm hoping you can give an example or explain what you mean before I show it.

As I told Sili, it's mostly tone. Let me see if I can pull up a quote or two that really emphasizes what I mean...

 

Okay, here's I think the exchange that felt too familiar to me:

 

Lol, misunderstood what you said, I agree with the general meta on Thane. I disagree with 'the wolf' though, it reads as a continuation of 'teh mafia' started by Tress and thus a deliberate use of words and not an unconscious use.

ah i see. i'm still leaning town on him but i'm a little more scared now. i'll be watching him carefully.

Sure. MAYBE Sili is just "working together," as he says. But something about that doesn't feel natural if Sili is assuming BFG is scum.

 

But the other thing that bothers me is the same thing I just busted Sili for:

Sili, given 2 mafia who are you most likely to tinfoil on at the moment?

Here, BFG is assuming Sili is Town. That's why I said earlier that it felt like at least one of them knew the other's alignment. And it's not like BFG really went after Sili. That whole page reads like a limp distancing argument. And that's in my minus column for BFG. This isn't really something I was prepared to talk about but it seems as though the cat's out of the bag so let's make it public and discuss...

 

 

He made it seem like he was comfortable enough leaving his argument about the link between BFG/you as tone.  I pressed for further information, and he obliged.  That's by no means locks him in as town, but him being willing to work with me gives him a little bit of credit.  He's displaying a similar thought process to me ("tinfoil" vs "suspicion")*  

 

And his argument about linking you makes sense.  You named BFG as a scum read...immediately after you agreed with her reads.  You seem to have taken her suspicion of Thane to heart ("I'm more scared of him now").  I don't expect players to immediately write off anything their suspects say, but if you're that in sync with her, why should she be a scum read?  Is everything she's saying a TMI-based read that she's gifting us?

Yates asserts tone is somehow this nebulous undefined quality, then a couple posts later dispenses with the how's and why's of it's inner workings when pressed by someone else. It's queer. Not to mention the two topics are actually over two seperate claims, so he isn't continuing the same argument. Yates starts by declaring I treat Bfg like she's town, and later asserts I simply let go of a scum lean. The latter is a far less notable offense, but it can be substantiated to a degree.

 

I interpret the case as such: why wasn't I building a case on bfg if I had her as scum, and my answer is simple: she was never a scum lean. She asked me for my poe and since I was discerning her alignment at the time I put her in my lower bracket. Assume it was a null-scum read for absence of information and my posts make perfect sense because it's exactly what happened. I even express a tentative quality about those leans in particular.

 

And I mean, since when does cooperation and agreement with certain reads lead to being fatilly connected? wtf. I liked her content, the arguments presented, and I agreed with them. And I especially did after I went back and checked to see what she meant.

 

 

No, no, no. This is not how a pony talks. I do understand the frustration when posting doesn´t work but use a more apropriate wording. Consider this your first warning. 

 

If you are familiar with WoT, you could always use "Mothers milk in a cup!". If you haven´t read WoT then don´t ask. lol I have always loved the HP curses, like "Merlins beard!". I asked my secret co-mod about MLP curses but she was just "It´s a kids show! Doh!", so I guess no. 

 

 

 

 

About NO LYNCH - sorry that I didn´t add it to the rules. It´s done now. If a majority of players vote NO LYNCH then it becomes night without anyone killed. 

 

VC will be up soon.

[Niniel]

 

 

VC

 

Sili (1) - Cass

Yates (1) - Sili

No lynch (1) - Clov

 

Not voting: everyone else

 

 

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. 

 

It´s Day 1. Day ends Saturday 9 PM CET. (GMT + 1)  That is 9 hours and 40 minutes from now. 

 

 

 

For those who are terrible at time zones (like me, once you get outside the U.S. mainland) - I think deadline is about 13 hours from now.

 

Countdown link:

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20150110T21&p0=239&msg=DAY+ONE+DEADLINE&csz=1&swk=1

 

 

Thanks! Will try to use this the rest of the game. 

[Sili Quirrels]

 

tress :/

 

jmm isn't even paying attention to the thread... he doesn't 'care'. last game he 'cared' even when mechanically clear. Why would he be paying less attention this time?

 

You're really sketching me out here.

 

 

Why am I sketching you out? 

 

i'll retract it. i hadn't read your list yet, so maybe the missing puzzle piece would have changed my reaction. i'm too tired to tell to be quite frank and i don't even know if it matters. for all i know i'm seeing ghosts.

 

the heart of the matter is i don't like people defending jmm i guess. i don't see a reason to keep him around and nothing here is reminiscent for me of his content in your game (no snark or stubbornness in this game). i keep thinking just one or two posts more, to get the right response and it never comes,  there's no point in trying.

 

my hypothetical: if i flip scum, you're left with a useless villager in jmm. if jmm flips scum, you're left with a goat tone reader.

 

town's pick, or maybe we're both villagers lol.

 

actually, i am kind of scared jmm is a villager. i've thought too much, interacted too much... stretched myself too thin covering two metas. i'm totally off my game and i'm constantly scared i've missed something. part of me wants to forfeit because no one is saying the obvious: how the fuck do i mimic this level of engagement and insight as scum, sustained for days?

 

it's untenable, impossible for me. i wouldn't want to.

 

me as scum just doesn't make sense.

[Sili Quirrels]

whatever. here's my history as best as i can sum up.

 

marlfox game: sub in for a wolf day 3, first time. i distance my two wolfpacks because i don't think i'll live long and i can rely on despothera to do the work if i play to his paranoia. (general hallmarks of my strategy there - i don't tend to bus if i think they'll get lynched). throughout i town read a ubnch of people, offer some surface level insights but nothing too deep. when my wolfpack dies i troll to endgame and victory. that's all it was lol. i was blatantly wolfy but killed the right people =D

 

serial killer: it was a mash-up. i made it clear early on i'd be playing to town's wincondition and i did until tom told me to play the field (loltom. he totally lied to us because 3 scum were alive when we thought there was 1) i should have killed cphoya, but nope. fuck that. kill the town power role because 'leveling'. hate tom.

 

anyway, the last day i was still looking for scum but didn't really care if i was right.

 

turbo: new years game. i shot the first couple villagers and laughed about it.

 

wind in the door: i prioritized the serial killer game that i was playing at the same time, so day 1 was my worst scum game to date. day 2 i try my best to compensate but am unsuccessful since I'm peeked. i don't really remember what i said to build a case on cphoya but it was fun exploring what i could do with a little wax.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

lol ya, fucking vig me.

 

 

Sili, I swear, if you actually are Town and I'm tinfoiling, it's posts like this which mean I'm never going to understand you.

 

I'm taking a break for an hour or so, fighting off a headache.

 

probably not. it's okay because i understand you well enough.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

this is fucked. brb.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, yates is lying. I don't think anyone will believe me but... :/

 

Lying about what?  

 

I might be tunneling yates. It's hard to tell, so the least I can do is tell you what I find irksome about his poe list.

 

If my arguments are good maybe it will be persuasive... and if they aren't maybe I'm mistaken.

 

This is the post I claim he lies in,

By POE all of the scum are in you, Tress, BFG, and Thane.

 

Cass is Town 100% of the time, here. I don't recall seeing Clov scum but this is a pretty solid Clov Town approach to the game. Thane hasn't contributed enough and Tress has a medical excuse to not be contributing. Lack of content players are hard to judge. I'd feel good lynching in that pool and investigating there as well.

 

poe - Yates hasn't substantiated enough town reads to form a healthy poe day 1. The only reason poe is there is to imply he's done more work than he has.

poe includes 4 scum - 4 out of 7 players isn't a poe. it's a crapshoot.

Thane hasn't contributed enough - Thane isn't known for case building, but he has said a little about everyone. I think Yates misses it because he's looking for 'notable' content only which is wolfy.

Tress has a medical excuse - Yates is intensely aware of player status but not player content. To say neither thane or tress have much content to speak of is insanely reductive, and begging for poor reads.

Jmm isn't mentioned - Yates was reading jmm as null, but does not include him in a purported poe over 4 others. This means tress, thane, me, and bfg are all scum leans to him.

It's hard to judge low content players - Uses this to excuse Thane and Tress in a poe,  but does not include the lowest content poster.

Hedges on scum leans due to low content - instead of building a case on them.

Insterts clov as a new town read - but does not include jmm in the same breath.

 

Sili - Here's where I'm at IRT Yates...

 

 

 

 

 

You claim she's a scum lean but you treat her as Town. Do you not recall this discussion?

You didn't, as far as I can tell, imply anything like that.

 

Not to make this into too big of a deal but, what?? You claim you called BFG a scum suspect. I acknowledge that. I read it. It's pretty clear. Then you go on to respond to BFG throughout all of Page 7 in a tone that suggests [to me] you already know she's Town. [Granted; tone reading is a skill I'm trying to hone.] So when you claim I never "commented" on the fact that you called BFG a scum read, you are missing the fact that it is implied that I'm commenting on it when I ask BFG what she thinks about you treating her like you know she's Town. This question only really makes sense if I already know that you called her scummy and thus your tone made the question pertinent given your stated read. Follow?

 

You eschew,

I'm waiting for my scum list to town tell, then I'll start over by adjusting my expectations and rereading.

 

Yeah. Pretty much. I actually kind of wait for ANYONE to Town tell to a degree I recognize so I can focus my scum hunting elsewhere. I kind of pride myself on not Town tunneling and think I've done a pretty decent job of late. That's how I accomplish that feat. But what's the point of this statement [accusation?]?

 

 

From your quoted excerpts, coded blue. I had bfg as scum by poe. It was not a strong stance and I was looking for reasons to change my mind. I imply this by the quote you left out and my inclusion of clov as a scum lean.

What did I leave out? It's possible I misunderstood something or wasn't following your train of thought...

 

You promised you would go into detail how I treat Bfg as town. The most I think you can say is we cooperate to meet an ends, and that's pretty much all I got from reading thrice. You'll have to help me.

Best laid plans of mice and men. I'm just going to call it "tone" rather then spend the 1000 words it would take to explain why that appears to be the case.

 

The point is linking players to me is a good part of your content, and so I ask, how is insinuating scum partners without case building early day 1 without a single flip conducive to hunting scum?

I was being cheeky with you and Cass. Really, I was trying to coax a reaction out of you two, as you already suspected. Cass fell for it and I think her reaction was on point. So she got the first Equestria Town Carrot. Your response is automagically void because you knew what I was doing and admitted to it.

 

Your tone with BFG, given your stated opinion of her alignment, struck me ass odd and is a completely separate event. It's just coincidence, really, that it happened to be you. Again. Or, maybe it's not coincidence so much as simple math.

 

It's pure tinfoil right?

See? You did it again. Now you are treating ME like you know I'm Town. It can't be "tinfoil" unless you know I'm Town.

 

Like, say I flip Scum, what are you going to do - lynch bfg because we worked together for a page? From a villager's point of view (e.g. mine) it seems frivolous and maybe destructive depending on the roster's gullibility, because I could very well be in anti-spew and as a matter of fact, scum treating a player like town usually means that player is town.

 

Like jmm has been doing for me.

 

And you say I've been doing for bfg.

I agree with the bold. If you were to flip scum, I would think that would clear me, BFG, and Cass [to a lesser degree]. At least it would weigh favorably in my evaluation of BFG and Cass's alignments.

 

 

 

I don't really get this impression at all from their interactions.  There is something that stood out to me, but I'm hoping you can give an example or explain what you mean before I show it.

As I told Sili, it's mostly tone. Let me see if I can pull up a quote or two that really emphasizes what I mean...

 

Okay, here's I think the exchange that felt too familiar to me:

 

Lol, misunderstood what you said, I agree with the general meta on Thane. I disagree with 'the wolf' though, it reads as a continuation of 'teh mafia' started by Tress and thus a deliberate use of words and not an unconscious use.

ah i see. i'm still leaning town on him but i'm a little more scared now. i'll be watching him carefully.

Sure. MAYBE Sili is just "working together," as he says. But something about that doesn't feel natural if Sili is assuming BFG is scum.

 

But the other thing that bothers me is the same thing I just busted Sili for:

Sili, given 2 mafia who are you most likely to tinfoil on at the moment?

Here, BFG is assuming Sili is Town. That's why I said earlier that it felt like at least one of them knew the other's alignment. And it's not like BFG really went after Sili. That whole page reads like a limp distancing argument. And that's in my minus column for BFG. This isn't really something I was prepared to talk about but it seems as though the cat's out of the bag so let's make it public and discuss...

 

 

He made it seem like he was comfortable enough leaving his argument about the link between BFG/you as tone.  I pressed for further information, and he obliged.  That's by no means locks him in as town, but him being willing to work with me gives him a little bit of credit.  He's displaying a similar thought process to me ("tinfoil" vs "suspicion")*  

 

And his argument about linking you makes sense.  You named BFG as a scum read...immediately after you agreed with her reads.  You seem to have taken her suspicion of Thane to heart ("I'm more scared of him now").  I don't expect players to immediately write off anything their suspects say, but if you're that in sync with her, why should she be a scum read?  Is everything she's saying a TMI-based read that she's gifting us?

Yates asserts tone is somehow this nebulous undefined quality, then a couple posts later dispenses with the how's and why's of it's inner workings when pressed by someone else. It's queer. Not to mention the two topics are actually over two seperate claims, so he isn't continuing the same argument. Yates starts by declaring I treat Bfg like she's town, and later asserts I simply let go of a scum lean. The latter is a far less notable offense, but it can be substantiated to a degree.

 

I interpret the case as such: why wasn't I building a case on bfg if I had her as scum, and my answer is simple: she was never a scum lean. She asked me for my poe and since I was discerning her alignment at the time I put her in my lower bracket. Assume it was a null-scum read for absence of information and my posts make perfect sense because it's exactly what happened. I even express a tentative quality about those leans in particular.

 

And I mean, since when does cooperation and agreement with certain reads lead to being fatilly connected? wtf. I liked her content, the arguments presented, and I agreed with them. And I especially did after I went back and checked to see what she meant.

 

 

No, no, no. This is not how a pony talks. I do understand the frustration when posting doesn´t work but use a more apropriate wording. Consider this your first warning. 

 

If you are familiar with WoT, you could always use "Mothers milk in a cup!". If you haven´t read WoT then don´t ask. lol I have always loved the HP curses, like "Merlins beard!". I asked my secret co-mod about MLP curses but she was just "It´s a kids show! Doh!", so I guess no. 

 

yes boss

[Sili Quirrels]

i'll probably regret my irritability in the morning