[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

[BFG]

7. This is a hammer game. Day end when a majority is reached. Any votes after the hammer vote will not count. If a majority is not reached by deadline there will be a random mod kill.

Tina Mod Goddess would it be a no coroner mod kill if it came to it, I can't remember what's standard

 

#Inb4fearmongeringaccusations

[Sili Quirrels]

Yeah, yates is lying. I don't think anyone will believe me but... :/

[Clovdyx]

Yeah, yates is lying. I don't think anyone will believe me but... :/

 

Lying about what?  

[Clovdyx]

Sili - Here's where I'm at IRT Yates...

 

 

 

 

 

You claim she's a scum lean but you treat her as Town. Do you not recall this discussion?

You didn't, as far as I can tell, imply anything like that.

 

Not to make this into too big of a deal but, what?? You claim you called BFG a scum suspect. I acknowledge that. I read it. It's pretty clear. Then you go on to respond to BFG throughout all of Page 7 in a tone that suggests [to me] you already know she's Town. [Granted; tone reading is a skill I'm trying to hone.] So when you claim I never "commented" on the fact that you called BFG a scum read, you are missing the fact that it is implied that I'm commenting on it when I ask BFG what she thinks about you treating her like you know she's Town. This question only really makes sense if I already know that you called her scummy and thus your tone made the question pertinent given your stated read. Follow?

You eschew,

I'm waiting for my scum list to town tell, then I'll start over by adjusting my expectations and rereading.

 

Yeah. Pretty much. I actually kind of wait for ANYONE to Town tell to a degree I recognize so I can focus my scum hunting elsewhere. I kind of pride myself on not Town tunneling and think I've done a pretty decent job of late. That's how I accomplish that feat. But what's the point of this statement [accusation?]?

From your quoted excerpts, coded blue. I had bfg as scum by poe. It was not a strong stance and I was looking for reasons to change my mind. I imply this by the quote you left out and my inclusion of clov as a scum lean.

What did I leave out? It's possible I misunderstood something or wasn't following your train of thought...
 

You promised you would go into detail how I treat Bfg as town. The most I think you can say is we cooperate to meet an ends, and that's pretty much all I got from reading thrice. You'll have to help me.

Best laid plans of mice and men. I'm just going to call it "tone" rather then spend the 1000 words it would take to explain why that appears to be the case.
 

The point is linking players to me is a good part of your content, and so I ask, how is insinuating scum partners without case building early day 1 without a single flip conducive to hunting scum?

I was being cheeky with you and Cass. Really, I was trying to coax a reaction out of you two, as you already suspected. Cass fell for it and I think her reaction was on point. So she got the first Equestria Town Carrot. Your response is automagically void because you knew what I was doing and admitted to it.

Your tone with BFG, given your stated opinion of her alignment, struck me ass odd and is a completely separate event. It's just coincidence, really, that it happened to be you. Again. Or, maybe it's not coincidence so much as simple math.

It's pure tinfoil right?

See? You did it again. Now you are treating ME like you know I'm Town. It can't be "tinfoil" unless you know I'm Town.
 

Like, say I flip Scum, what are you going to do - lynch bfg because we worked together for a page? From a villager's point of view (e.g. mine) it seems frivolous and maybe destructive depending on the roster's gullibility, because I could very well be in anti-spew and as a matter of fact, scum treating a player like town usually means that player is town.
 
Like jmm has been doing for me.
 
And you say I've been doing for bfg.

I agree with the bold. If you were to flip scum, I would think that would clear me, BFG, and Cass [to a lesser degree]. At least it would weigh favorably in my evaluation of BFG and Cass's alignments.

 

 

 

I don't really get this impression at all from their interactions.  There is something that stood out to me, but I'm hoping you can give an example or explain what you mean before I show it.

As I told Sili, it's mostly tone. Let me see if I can pull up a quote or two that really emphasizes what I mean...

Okay, here's I think the exchange that felt too familiar to me:

Lol, misunderstood what you said, I agree with the general meta on Thane. I disagree with 'the wolf' though, it reads as a continuation of 'teh mafia' started by Tress and thus a deliberate use of words and not an unconscious use.

ah i see. i'm still leaning town on him but i'm a little more scared now. i'll be watching him carefully.

Sure. MAYBE Sili is just "working together," as he says. But something about that doesn't feel natural if Sili is assuming BFG is scum.

But the other thing that bothers me is the same thing I just busted Sili for:

Sili, given 2 mafia who are you most likely to tinfoil on at the moment?

Here, BFG is assuming Sili is Town. That's why I said earlier that it felt like at least one of them knew the other's alignment. And it's not like BFG really went after Sili. That whole page reads like a limp distancing argument. And that's in my minus column for BFG. This isn't really something I was prepared to talk about but it seems as though the cat's out of the bag so let's make it public and discuss...

 

 

He made it seem like he was comfortable enough leaving his argument about the link between BFG/you as tone.  I pressed for further information, and he obliged.  That's by no means locks him in as town, but him being willing to work with me gives him a little bit of credit.  He's displaying a similar thought process to me ("tinfoil" vs "suspicion")*  

 

And his argument about linking you makes sense.  You named BFG as a scum read...immediately after you agreed with her reads.  You seem to have taken her suspicion of Thane to heart ("I'm more scared of him now").  I don't expect players to immediately write off anything their suspects say, but if you're that in sync with her, why should she be a scum read?  Is everything she's saying a TMI-based read that she's gifting us?

[Niniel]

 

7. This is a hammer game. Day end when a majority is reached. Any votes after the hammer vote will not count. If a majority is not reached by deadline there will be a random mod kill.

Tina Mod Goddess would it be a no coroner mod kill if it came to it, I can't remember what's standard

 

#Inb4fearmongeringaccusations

 

 

There would be a coroner. 

[Niniel]

 

 

VC

 

Sili (1) - Cass

 

Not voting: everyone else

 

 

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. 

 

It´s Day 1. Day ends Saturday 9 PM CET. (GMT + 1)  That is 21 hours and 45 minutes from now. 

 

[Yates]

I wonder if I misunderstood what you meant by random

I think you did. He said he liked your intro then randomly - as in, without further content or explanation - called you scum in his next post.

[Yates]

Uh, bfg, thane, and I are putting out a lot of content. i would be lying if i said i haven't considered a bfg and thane team, but i wouldn't case them for their wim either.

 

Tress also has good content, or more than jmm anyway, so... not sure where you're going with this.

I was referring to Thane and Tress when I mentioned "low content posters," not that all of my scum pool are low content posters. You claim Thane and Tress have "good content," but I argue that neither has enough to put them strongly above or below null.

[Sili Quirrels]

this is fucked. brb.

[Sili Quirrels]

I swear i tried to get a post running 4 different times and each time my tablet shut down.

 

Now I will respond, in order of what's most important to me.

[Niniel]

Good night my lovely ponies. Remeber to vote. See you tomorrow. 

[Sili Quirrels]

 

Yeah, yates is lying. I don't think anyone will believe me but... :/

 

Lying about what?  

 

I might be tunneling yates. It's hard to tell, so the least I can do is tell you what I find irksome about his poe list.

 

If my arguments are good maybe it will be persuasive... and if they aren't maybe I'm mistaken.

 

This is the post I claim he lies in,

By POE all of the scum are in you, Tress, BFG, and Thane.

 

Cass is Town 100% of the time, here. I don't recall seeing Clov scum but this is a pretty solid Clov Town approach to the game. Thane hasn't contributed enough and Tress has a medical excuse to not be contributing. Lack of content players are hard to judge. I'd feel good lynching in that pool and investigating there as well.

 

poe - Yates hasn't substantiated enough town reads to form a healthy poe day 1. The only reason poe is there is to imply he's done more work than he has.

poe includes 4 scum - 4 out of 7 players isn't a poe. it's a crapshoot.

Thane hasn't contributed enough - Thane isn't known for case building, but he has said a little about everyone. I think Yates misses it because he's looking for 'notable' content only which is wolfy.

Tress has a medical excuse - Yates is intensely aware of player status but not player content. To say neither thane or tress have much content to speak of is insanely reductive, and begging for poor reads.

Jmm isn't mentioned - Yates was reading jmm as null, but does not include him in a purported poe over 4 others. This means tress, thane, me, and bfg are all scum leans to him.

It's hard to judge low content players - Uses this to excuse Thane and Tress in a poe,  but does not include the lowest content poster.

Hedges on scum leans due to low content - instead of building a case on them.

Insterts clov as a new town read - but does not include jmm in the same breath.

 

Sili - Here's where I'm at IRT Yates...

 

 

 

 

 

You claim she's a scum lean but you treat her as Town. Do you not recall this discussion?

You didn't, as far as I can tell, imply anything like that.

 

Not to make this into too big of a deal but, what?? You claim you called BFG a scum suspect. I acknowledge that. I read it. It's pretty clear. Then you go on to respond to BFG throughout all of Page 7 in a tone that suggests [to me] you already know she's Town. [Granted; tone reading is a skill I'm trying to hone.] So when you claim I never "commented" on the fact that you called BFG a scum read, you are missing the fact that it is implied that I'm commenting on it when I ask BFG what she thinks about you treating her like you know she's Town. This question only really makes sense if I already know that you called her scummy and thus your tone made the question pertinent given your stated read. Follow?

 

You eschew,

I'm waiting for my scum list to town tell, then I'll start over by adjusting my expectations and rereading.

 

Yeah. Pretty much. I actually kind of wait for ANYONE to Town tell to a degree I recognize so I can focus my scum hunting elsewhere. I kind of pride myself on not Town tunneling and think I've done a pretty decent job of late. That's how I accomplish that feat. But what's the point of this statement [accusation?]?

 

 

From your quoted excerpts, coded blue. I had bfg as scum by poe. It was not a strong stance and I was looking for reasons to change my mind. I imply this by the quote you left out and my inclusion of clov as a scum lean.

What did I leave out? It's possible I misunderstood something or wasn't following your train of thought...

 

You promised you would go into detail how I treat Bfg as town. The most I think you can say is we cooperate to meet an ends, and that's pretty much all I got from reading thrice. You'll have to help me.

Best laid plans of mice and men. I'm just going to call it "tone" rather then spend the 1000 words it would take to explain why that appears to be the case.

 

The point is linking players to me is a good part of your content, and so I ask, how is insinuating scum partners without case building early day 1 without a single flip conducive to hunting scum?

I was being cheeky with you and Cass. Really, I was trying to coax a reaction out of you two, as you already suspected. Cass fell for it and I think her reaction was on point. So she got the first Equestria Town Carrot. Your response is automagically void because you knew what I was doing and admitted to it.

 

Your tone with BFG, given your stated opinion of her alignment, struck me ass odd and is a completely separate event. It's just coincidence, really, that it happened to be you. Again. Or, maybe it's not coincidence so much as simple math.

 

It's pure tinfoil right?

See? You did it again. Now you are treating ME like you know I'm Town. It can't be "tinfoil" unless you know I'm Town.

 

Like, say I flip Scum, what are you going to do - lynch bfg because we worked together for a page? From a villager's point of view (e.g. mine) it seems frivolous and maybe destructive depending on the roster's gullibility, because I could very well be in anti-spew and as a matter of fact, scum treating a player like town usually means that player is town.

 

Like jmm has been doing for me.

 

And you say I've been doing for bfg.

I agree with the bold. If you were to flip scum, I would think that would clear me, BFG, and Cass [to a lesser degree]. At least it would weigh favorably in my evaluation of BFG and Cass's alignments.

 

 

 

I don't really get this impression at all from their interactions.  There is something that stood out to me, but I'm hoping you can give an example or explain what you mean before I show it.

As I told Sili, it's mostly tone. Let me see if I can pull up a quote or two that really emphasizes what I mean...

 

Okay, here's I think the exchange that felt too familiar to me:

 

Lol, misunderstood what you said, I agree with the general meta on Thane. I disagree with 'the wolf' though, it reads as a continuation of 'teh mafia' started by Tress and thus a deliberate use of words and not an unconscious use.

ah i see. i'm still leaning town on him but i'm a little more scared now. i'll be watching him carefully.

Sure. MAYBE Sili is just "working together," as he says. But something about that doesn't feel natural if Sili is assuming BFG is scum.

 

But the other thing that bothers me is the same thing I just busted Sili for:

Sili, given 2 mafia who are you most likely to tinfoil on at the moment?

Here, BFG is assuming Sili is Town. That's why I said earlier that it felt like at least one of them knew the other's alignment. And it's not like BFG really went after Sili. That whole page reads like a limp distancing argument. And that's in my minus column for BFG. This isn't really something I was prepared to talk about but it seems as though the cat's out of the bag so let's make it public and discuss...

 

 

He made it seem like he was comfortable enough leaving his argument about the link between BFG/you as tone.  I pressed for further information, and he obliged.  That's by no means locks him in as town, but him being willing to work with me gives him a little bit of credit.  He's displaying a similar thought process to me ("tinfoil" vs "suspicion")*  

 

And his argument about linking you makes sense.  You named BFG as a scum read...immediately after you agreed with her reads.  You seem to have taken her suspicion of Thane to heart ("I'm more scared of him now").  I don't expect players to immediately write off anything their suspects say, but if you're that in sync with her, why should she be a scum read?  Is everything she's saying a TMI-based read that she's gifting us?

Yates asserts tone is somehow this nebulous undefined quality, then a couple posts later dispenses with the how's and why's of it's inner workings when pressed by someone else. It's queer. Not to mention the two topics are actually over two seperate claims, so he isn't continuing the same argument. Yates starts by declaring I treat Bfg like she's town, and later asserts I simply let go of a scum lean. The latter is a far less notable offense, but it can be substantiated to a degree.

 

I interpret the case as such: why wasn't I building a case on bfg if I had her as scum, and my answer is simple: she was never a scum lean. She asked me for my poe and since I was discerning her alignment at the time I put her in my lower bracket. Assume it was a null-scum read for absence of information and my posts make perfect sense because it's exactly what happened. I even express a tentative quality about those leans in particular.

 

And I mean, since when does cooperation and agreement with certain reads lead to being fatilly connected? wtf. I liked her content, the arguments presented, and I agreed with them. And I especially did after I went back and checked to see what she meant.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

Uh, bfg, thane, and I are putting out a lot of content. i would be lying if i said i haven't considered a bfg and thane team, but i wouldn't case them for their wim either.

 

Tress also has good content, or more than jmm anyway, so... not sure where you're going with this.

I was referring to Thane and Tress when I mentioned "low content posters," not that all of my scum pool are low content posters. You claim Thane and Tress have "good content," but I argue that neither has enough to put them strongly above or below null.

 

I go back and forth all the time. if you could tell me after you flipped town, bfg and thane are scum i woudl be happier.

 

assume you die next. who do you want the village to lynch? i'm morbidly curious.

[Sili Quirrels]

wait, no no... so okay, assume i'm town and now go. i want it to be a critical sort of answer that i can rely on.

 

AND YOU HAVENT TOLD ME IM WRONG YET. (about you being scum). weird.

 

[Sili Quirrels]

[v]yates[/v] - incentive?

[Sili Quirrels]

poe - Yates hasn't substantiated enough town reads to form a healthy poe day 1. The only reason poe is there is to imply he's done more work than he has.

poe includes 4 scum - 4 out of 7 players isn't a poe. it's a crapshoot.

Thane hasn't contributed enough - Thane isn't known for case building, but he has said a little about everyone. I think Yates misses it because he's looking for 'notable' content only which is wolfy.

Tress has a medical excuse - Yates is intensely aware of player status but not player content. To say neither thane or tress have much content to speak of is insanely reductive, and begging for poor reads.

Jmm isn't mentioned - Yates was reading jmm as null, but does not include him in a purported poe over 4 others. This means tress, thane, me, and bfg are all scum leans to him.

It's hard to judge low content players - Uses this to excuse Thane and Tress in a poe,  but does not include the lowest content poster.

Hedges on scum leans due to low content - instead of building a case on them.

Insterts clov as a new town read - but does not include jmm in the same breath.

 

forgot my conclusion. tl;dr to me at least, yates poe list seems to be disingenuous, inconsistent with past content in terms of read substantiation and case building, mostly fluff, and indicative of someone who hasn't taken a critical eye to the thread but still wants to appear like they have.

 

i call this scummy.

 

points of interest:

 

-Yates declares "all the scum are here" so it is an immutable list. But Yates doesn't include jmm in his analysis despite the slot being a point of contention.

-Yates has at least 2 scum leans he hasn't built a case on.

[Sili Quirrels]

Note: I don't consider the allegations against me or bfg to be 'cases'.

[Sili Quirrels]

dunno if i'm saying anything right but that's where i'm at. it's a been a challenge articulating my instincts.

 

and of course the problem with gut reads is they can be premature or misguided.

[Clovdyx]

[v]No Lynch[/v]

 

 

By my math, we have about 18 hours left and need 5 votes of 8 on one target or it goes random.  I think Cass is definitely town, and I still like Yates to be town.  Between them and myself, RNGesus has about a 40% chance of hitting someone I'm not cool lynching.  Not great odds.

 

Also think NL should give us an extra day phase.  If there's only one kill a night - highly likely given the game size -, then a mislynch today and tomorrow (coupled with a successful kill each night) seals it following N2.  No Lynch makes the earliest loss D3.

[Sili Quirrels]

Like yates to be town?

 

Jmm is a good bet

[Cass]

Ok, I'm back and have read to here. Tbh I'm now feeling a little behind and I don't like it. (I thought I was doing pretty ok until yesterday, but I skip one all-nighter and now I have 5 new pages plus the stuff I didn't get to to address. Love my Aussie timezone   ).

 

I intend to go back and get stuck into the specifics but Clov, if you're still here I'm a little confused about your last post and since it relates to vote/not vote and I'm voting I'd really like to have as much time as possible to understand your 'logic' before the EoD.

 

 

[v]No Lynch[/v]

 

 

By my math, we have about 18 hours left and need 5 votes of 8 on one target or it goes random.  I think Cass is definitely town, and I still like Yates to be town.  Between them and myself, RNGesus has about a 40% chance of hitting someone I'm not cool lynching.  Not great odds.

 

Also think NL should give us an extra day phase.  If there's only one kill a night - highly likely given the game size -, then a mislynch today and tomorrow (coupled with a successful kill each night) seals it following N2.  No Lynch makes the earliest loss D3.

 

 

I see the logic with a NL giving us an extra day phase, but as far as I see it, if we all vote a majority and can successfully lynch a wilf, then we'll be significantly in the lead. Wouldn't this be the best possible outcome for Town?

 

I don't understand your "between them and myself.... not great odds" thing - if you're saying Yates, yourself and I are the three people you're 'not cool' lynching, then we make up 3/8 players. By default then, that suggests that you would be 'cool' with a lynch against the remaining 5/8 players.  That seems like pretty good odds to me, and I don't understand why the preferred option wouldn't be to hunt harder and convince us to lynch one of your preferred suspects.  I had you down as being most openly 'suspicious' of Sili and BFG at this point (and at one point even saying you found Sili even worse than before).

 

I find it a bit concerning that you come up with/present decent points against 'suspicious' players, but then offer the suggestion that we all choose not to act. Has something changed in your opinion of those players to this point? My concern is that you may be stalling because you're trying to protect someone you think we'll lynch. In my mind this is particularly pertinent, again, to the potential link between you and Sili. Can you explain??

 

 

 

 

PS - completely irrelevant, but notice the emoticon?? Do you?? I have internet access on a computer!! 

Yey for hubby hooking up a hotspot- Yey!!                   

 

 

[Sili Quirrels]

I dont get the obsession with me

[Yates]

dunno if i'm saying anything right but that's where i'm at. it's a been a challenge articulating my instincts.

It's been a challenge understanding them. Let me see if I follow your logic...

 

You think I haven't made enough Town reads to substantiate a POE list. A list that you asked me for [when you asked me who was scum]. On Day one. I've already hard cleared almost 30% of the game [2/7]. I think that's a good day's work.

 

You claim I'm looking for "notable content" from Thane and overlooked his tremendous content in this game and that's wolfy. I told Thane what I'm looking for. And he has been too guarded to provide it. This is NOT a lot of content for Town Thane. Go look at a Town Thane game and get back to me, son. [FYI - volume is now Town Thane public tell #2]

 

I am being "insanely reductive" in my assessment of Tress's game contribution being lacking due to illness. Do me a favor and quote for me the three most impactfull posts by Tress iyo. IMO? Probably the post where she calls you wolfy. Also, we currently have 13 pages of content. What, iyo, is her strongest post beginning with page 4, you know - once everyone started contributing content to the game?

 

I didn't mention JMM. You're right. I literally forgot he was even in the game. That's how little I think of JMM at this point in time. In all seriousness, I'm still waiting for him to do anything that resembles backing up his reads on Clov or myself or really anyone but Cass.

 

You claim there are at least two scum leans I haven't built a case on. Who HAVE I built a case on? And who are my scum leans? POE list =/= scum lean, bro. You know this. You used that to your advantage in Marlfox.

 

Speaking of Marlfox, is there another game we were in together where you "tinfoiled" on me like this? Pretty sure Marlfox was the only one.

[Yates]

Can you explain??

Not to speak for Clov but I'm going to because I almost made the same post. Using your example; we are assuming there are 2 scum in 5 slots. That's a 40% chance of hitting scum discounting game play. Another way of looking at it is that there's a 60% chance of hitting Town. If we *do* hit Town, we are in MYLO on DAY 2 with, in theory, only 1 investigation result. If that result is an innocent? We're pretty much screwed.

 

The only reason I didn't bring this up is because we are almost equally screwed if scum guess right and kill the cop tonight since our doc [assuming we have a protective role] has their worst chance of protecting the cop on N1. But, of course, the cop is also more likely to investigate the person we would have lynched and if that person is scum, we bought scum an extra night.

 

But as I think it through further, scum have in theory a 2/6 chance of killing a Town PR if we no lynch and a 2/5 chance of killing a Town PR if we mislynch [assuming we don't mislynch a PR!].

 

I'm having a de ja vu moment discussing optimal play...

[Yates]

With the above said, I'd still rather lynch than let it go random. I want people responsible for their wagons. I think Clov is forgetting someone dies if we no lynch.