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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

Tommyrod

By Tommyrod
in DM Mafia Games

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DPR Spam Master

DPR

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 3:42 PM, Andrej said:

My gut says Kivam is scum.

 

I think he's focusing on the wrong sort of things and pushing arguments that aren't alignment indicative but dressing them up as if they are.

 

Okay. Thank you.

 

From my perspective, it is too early to tell anything about Kivam. The points he has made are very simple, logical arguments in his (and mine) eyes.

 

For my part, I don't even bother trying to read Kivam until D3 or D4 when a scum push is unavoidable. Until then, he is either going to fall into the role of teacher, which he is very comfortable with. Or, he'll catalog posts for future evidence, which he is also very comfortable with.

 

To me, I can look at this dynamic and say "Kivam has made points against Andrej. Andrej has made points against Kivam. Until one or the other flips, we have a relationship that is unknown. But it is a relationship, as is the "DPR vs. Deslami" relationship and the "Nyn vs. Varmacle" relationship.

 

Personally, I'm fine with putting all of these on the back burner and watching them simmer.

 

I'm also fine to echo your own argument against inactive players. They need to post, else what's the point of the game? 

 

Do you see any other relationships that we can examine later? 

DPR Spam Master

DPR

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 3:46 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

DPR: i'm willing to give it a try, ok?

 

Cool. I think we can get somewhere with this.

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 3:52 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

it's not an argument, it's my impression Darthe. And him only posting his reads... not contributing more than that in this game.. doesn't look good to me. 

You won't hear me argue against Laya sucking to play with this game.

DPR Spam Master

DPR

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 3:50 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 3:42 PM, Andrej said:

My gut says Kivam is scum.

 

I think he's focusing on the wrong sort of things and pushing arguments that aren't alignment indicative but dressing them up as if they are.

Ditto.  Womby says I may be reading into it too much and that's how he plays but I can't shake the sense that he isn't town. 

 

 

 

 

Okay, so, all of the SK talk so far revolves around the fact that several players believe Wombat to be the SK.

 

I'm obviously one of those that suspect he is.

 

What do y'all think about this possibility?

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

Doing a BIG read through, finding some interesting stuff. This is not so relevant, maybe but... 

  On 11/13/2014 at 4:43 PM, Yates. said:

 

If I was writing Cass's posts:

A. I probably wouldn't have been calling myself a huge scum lean and

B. I would have had a nice robust conversation with myself this morning.   :wink:

 

 

I laughed. Robust conversation may have helped there, yes!  :rolleyes:

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 4:06 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 3:50 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 3:42 PM, Andrej said:

My gut says Kivam is scum.

 

I think he's focusing on the wrong sort of things and pushing arguments that aren't alignment indicative but dressing them up as if they are.

Ditto.  Womby says I may be reading into it too much and that's how he plays but I can't shake the sense that he isn't town. 

 

 

 

 

Okay, so, all of the SK talk so far revolves around the fact that several players believe Wombat to be the SK.

 

I'm obviously one of those that suspect he is.

 

What do y'all think about this possibility?

 

I don't care who the SK is, I care who isn't town.  Trying to distinguish the two is an exercise in futility IMO.  What are you asking here?

DPR Spam Master

DPR

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 3:59 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

Can we still lynch slackers today?

 

I'd rather be a bit more certain about folks than just they are slackers. We have too many slackers to all be mafia and some seem to be RL issues. I've been quiet about the Verb thing because I'm certain his absence is RL related and that deserves to be acknowledged.

 

We've heard from Tress and Hally. Rags comes and goes. Krak is MIA. Pral at least does make GRPs when he's around. I'm sure what else to do with this issue.

csarmi Spam Master

csarmi

Posted
Posted
  On 11/10/2014 at 8:07 PM, WWWwombat said:

[v]##Yates[/v]

Wombat going after Yates here looks good. It doesn't sound like distancing to me.

DPR Spam Master

DPR

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 4:10 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 4:06 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 3:50 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 3:42 PM, Andrej said:

My gut says Kivam is scum.

 

I think he's focusing on the wrong sort of things and pushing arguments that aren't alignment indicative but dressing them up as if they are.

Ditto.  Womby says I may be reading into it too much and that's how he plays but I can't shake the sense that he isn't town. 

 

 

 

 

Okay, so, all of the SK talk so far revolves around the fact that several players believe Wombat to be the SK.

 

I'm obviously one of those that suspect he is.

 

What do y'all think about this possibility?

 

I don't care who the SK is, I care who isn't town.  Trying to distinguish the two is an exercise in futility IMO.  What are you asking here?

 

 

Talking around things, leaving bits out and hamming up others are all invitations to let others comment on an issue. It's why we do it. You've played on JN - you know how this works. 

 

Starting a discussion is often an attempt to play into someone's ego - a big area where folks make slips. 

 

It's also a way to judge who is paying attention and who isn't. Skimming can be skimming, but it can also be cover in the event that someone says they are skimming and then makes a post that required more attention to make than they claim they paid.

 

I'm asking this: if I put the accusation of Wombat being the SK on the table, who agrees, disagrees and why?

Thane Vakarian Grand Master

Thane Vakarian

Posted
Posted

I remember that i didn't really like his way of posting shortly after N1, but after that, his posting improved. He doesn't seem under any pressure at all nor trying to undermine town in any way as far as i can tell.  

DPR Spam Master

DPR

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 4:17 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

keep in mind, SK doesn't need to distance, unlike a wolf. But, i doubt Wombat is anything but town here.

 

Okay. Good.

 

Will you post reasons why you feel like Wombat is town?

 

In return, the reasons I believe he is the SK are (and I'll have to ISO later - I'm running late atm):

 

1. Wombat has posted multiple "baiting" posts that I see as attempts to draw a Seer viewing. The GF aspect of the role fits into this profile.

2. The Cromwell Approval and Sili mis-lynch were not random choices or actions - Wombat is a methodical player, not random.

3. I've posted about it in subtext and Wombat has acknowledged the posts. I specifically mentioned him offering a deal because this is one way to "live another day" and see what happens.

4. Wombat has played a town game other than that, which makes perfect sense.

 

Why do you (or anybody for that matter) feel he is town?

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted

I don't always play that deliberately DPR so I like getting things spelled out on occassion.  I doubt that Womby is SK here, mainly because he does play deliberately.  

 

Common SK play says that you play to the middle, not top, of the pack.  Uncommon SK play says you jump to a town leader position and then let it fall off.  In this setup he takes twice the risk of getting killed at night by playing to the top and staying there, which is where I see Womby.  He is actively attempting to be a town leader and maintain it.  

 

IMO you, Kiv, Des, Nyn and maybe Rags are all decently poised to be SK though Des probably is too high for that.  Of course, it's equally likely that the SK is someone who looks scummy or is inactive, which leads back to my opinion that hunting for a specific role is mostly pointless since we can't account for all of the variables in how each person would play.  

csarmi Spam Master

csarmi

Posted
Posted

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Up to p21.

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

Finally! A way to find the parts I'm missing! I like this logic-and-gut-together idea :)
 

I'm really not solid on the SK thing at the moment, and I think it's because I don't really understand the logic as far as an 'SK' is concerned. It feels over my head.

 

BUT

 

Going on gut, with players that feel like they're chopping and changing too much to come off as cleverly neutral or slightly more to either side (read: their stuff is just not making sense to me right now), which is the only way I can think an SK would play (?) I'm considering the following options as top of my list, not necessarily in this order:

 

Kiv - I don't understand his voting processes Day 1 or the 'logic' he used to rationalise and I don't trust him. I don't get the push at the beginning of the day either. I'm working on analysing all the logic here, in certain contexts, but it's not clear right now.

Deslarmi - for the reasons mentioned here. Namely the pooh-poohing the idea of hunting for SK, then driving the suspicion for who might be in the role, then not actually doing anything about it. I haven't seen Des (in particular) do this all game with any other issue.

Wombat - *Maybe* For some of the reasons you mention above: baiting-posts, subtext (although I wasn't sure what you were getting at at the time, heh), but like Darthe, I'm just not sold what deal exactly did you offer, and why was it yours to make?

AJ - I can't remember seeing a straightforward reads list from him.

Nyn - Because she seems to be balancing her involvement with both 'sides' as I'm reading them right now.

Anyone who has been particularly quiet - because I'm not sure the SK fired.

And there may have been something about Krak, but I can't remember now. 

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 4:51 PM, Cass said:

Nyn - Because she seems to be balancing her involvement with both 'sides' as I'm reading them right now.

 

lol please expand.

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

Nyn I've spent all night so far trying to figure this out - I have a 20 page word document that feels like it goes round in interlooping circles, and I don't know where to break it up.
I find it pointless offering opinions without giving the context, and I find that hard without hard evidence linked etc, but I just feel uneasy that, in my re-read, I noticed you were potentially siding a lot - both directly and possibly indirectly - with 'both' sides. Clear as mud? Sorry, organised thoughts are eventually coming... you asked though  :rolleyes:

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted

@DPR as far as Wombat goes, I don't have time to ISO him but overall I found myself nodding a long with quite a few of his posts. The only thing about him that seemed off to me was his behavior towards EOD1. But once D2 kicked back into gear his posts seemed fine. I don't really get the shtick he was doing at EOD, not familiar with it and overall it seemed weak sauce. I don't feel like this is a ping, necessarily, just kinda off. Could he be the SK? I'm not ruling that out but for now I feel okay about him.

 

To be honest I don't have a lot of experience with SK hunting. The two games off the top of my head recently that had SK in them was one where TG was SK and hardly posted at all (just coasted and I think he won). And another one where Cory was SK and holstered all nights to fool us (in this game I'm positive he won). I don't really know how to go about it...... I get what I should expect behavior wise, but to me it also sounds how a PR townie might behave..  the lines are very thin.... so it's kinda hard tor me to notice the nuances. I'm gonna try anyhow but I feel like scumhunting is more my forte. In some games anyhow lol

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