[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Cass]

  On 11/13/2014 at 7:58 PM, Kivam said:

Cass - if it helps D&D here on Dragonmount is the Debates & Discussions board  *giggles* oooooooh! lol

 

Re Wes - I answered you on this earlier.  You did. I just hadn't got to it by the time I posted the questions. Thanks for answering again. (Gives me a chance to go over for inconsistency *g*) The plays you're reading as scummy are typical of him as town.  I understand the logic of what you're saying in the context you're trying to convince me not to vote him out - but in practice is a null point because  'Don't trust meta . Especially with experienced players'. I seem to remember you telling me that early on. And in a more recent post. 'Don't trust anyone'. Again. Scummy, or at the very least sloppy if you're backing out of that idea now. on the basis you can trust your meta read of DPR/Wes. 'Can't explain why without destroying whatever effectiveness they might otherwise have, but I'll make the same comment to you that I made to Des earlier: Wombat and Barm said the exact same thing I am.  Leelou too, if I remember correctly.  So unless you're positing a scum team of Me, Wes, Wombat and VerBarm, plus if my memory is correct Leelou (which would be five wolves, so not just improbable but impossible), Cute point, False logic. Especially when you condider that HERE, Wombat mentioned, of his own accord, that he would be open to the option of lynching DPR.  the only conclusion that can be drawn is that at least one town player is telling you that Wes' play is not indicative (for him) of an anti-town alignment.  And since at least one townie has confirmed it, you know for a fact it is not a lie (since a town player would never lie about that). I disagree. 

 

Now, working from the assumption that his play is not out of character for Wes as town, why in the world would I toss a D1 vote on him?  The entire basis for your "DPR is scum" theory is his play seems like something he wouldn't do as town, which to me (and apparently anyone who knows him as a mafia player) it hasn't been. Then why, for the love of Light after a recap of my posts, did Wombat (who you just used as an example as someone who understands the theory you're trying to put into my head) change his mind on this and say he'd be open to lynching DPR, whilst you will not? In my mind, he either did it because he's Town and sees the value in it, or he's SCUM and potentially splitting votes with you. Either way. Are you sure that you're not scum? So no, I'm not voting Wes D1 for all the reasons I said before: I don't want to on a personal level, and see no logical reason on a game level.  You're right that the personal level wouldn't matter to me at all if I saw an in-game reason to join a lynch on him ... but I don't. Ok let's agree to disagree - on this - for now  . I may be barking up the wrong tree, but, meh.... Until proven otherwise, I'm going with the theory that you're scum. And thanks for reminding me to check my stance on Wombat   

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's interesting, but in my current state I can't help but read all of this last bit to the reply as general irrelevance, heresay and potential misdirection.... 

Re "surviving for a while," I can't remember a game that I survived past Day 3 as scum.  I'm not a skate-by type player - my motto as scum is "win spectacularly or die trying" - so I tend to get viewed early by the cop.  Unless I'm a godfather in a particular scum game (which would be almost unfair ), I plan accordingly.  

 

Re "where I was in the recap" - no kidding, I'd read your posts, and commented on them outside the recaps.  But my recaps are recaps, pure and simple.  I don't go outside the page except in deductive terms (I think you'll see in one of my recaps where I came across one of your later, pre-content posts, I mentioned that you followed through on your promise to post content).  So there wasn't/isn't going to be anything about you in a recap until I get up to the relevant page. Sorry.

 

Last thing, re "sultry nights", it's an inside joke from games past.  For instance, search the term in this game I ran back in 2010.  http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/45705-shadow-over-fiddlesmouth-game-thread-game-over-town-wins/ Will do later if I ever manage to catch up!! *g*

 

*g*

 

Well that was fun, and maybe kinda important in the hunt for scum   .

 

And no. Apparently there's no such thing as bed for me. The toddler is awake again. Meh, Lucky shift work/all nighters and me are long-time friends.

[Cass]

Wombat does that help? ^

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/13/2014 at 8:55 PM, WWWwombat said:

Also, Nyn's defense of Wes is utterly terrible.

 

Your face is terrible

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:13 PM, csarmi said:

Darthe my main concern with you is you preempting the Despo tunnel on you and your convoluted early posts.

 

A Darthe doesn't make the tunnel but any fool knows where the Des is gonna strike.

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 8:56 PM, Cass said:

Wombat does that help? ^

 

No, it doesn't.  I said I'm open to lynching DPR, but that doesn't mean I'm gung-ho for it.  I need to be convinced that he's actually scum.

[dicetosser1]

CASS   why were you yelling at me?

[Kivam]

You know, with what seems like a dramatic shift in how mafia's being played here since I was active - "tonereading" and meta driving lynches more than anything else, Info-lynch on Day 1 being somehow controversial - I decided to filter back through the recent games here to see how often mafia won.

 

As far as I can tell, of the last 7 games (Age of Ultron, Cthulhu, Tron, Discworld, Firefly, Dietary Habits, & Woodstock), mafia won all but 1.  Small sample size, but no way scum should be 6-1 in 7 games.

 

This is not a coincidence, people.  Either the games are inherently unbalanced (always a possibility) or town is playing things wrong on a grand scale. 

 

Just a thought.

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:21 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:18 PM, Cass said:

Flattered, but Nyn - have you even entertained the idea that I am writing all my own posts? <- That's not snide, it's genuine. If you think at everything I've written from this angle, would it change your read of me/help convince you that I'm Town?

 

Just sayin.

 

I'm starting to hate the fact that people know I am a noob.

 

You're missing my point. I wasn't actually talking about you. I was saying that I think people are overreacting to a valid option and calling it rude as if DPR kicked a puppy or something. It's stupid.

 

So this has nothing to do with my read on you. You're still neatly in the null pile.

 

 

Why is it that I feel like every post you make is some sort of argument against someone else's stance on some issue that YOU HAVE NO ACTUAL STANCE ON?

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:03 PM, WWWwombat said:

Why is it that I feel like every post you make is some sort of argument against someone else's stance on some issue that YOU HAVE NO ACTUAL STANCE ON?

 

Lunno. Maybe you're PMSing?

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:02 PM, Kivam said:

You know, with what seems like a dramatic shift in how mafia's being played here since I was active - "tonereading" and meta driving lynches more than anything else, Info-lynch on Day 1 being somehow controversial - I decided to filter back through the recent games here to see how often mafia won.

 

As far as I can tell, of the last 7 games (Age of Ultron, Cthulhu, Tron, Discworld, Firefly, Dietary Habits, & Woodstock), mafia won all but 1.  Small sample size, but no way scum should be 6-1 in 7 games.

 

This is not a coincidence, people.  Either the games are inherently unbalanced (always a possibility) or town is playing things wrong on a grand scale. 

 

Just a thought.

 

<3 this so much.  You really need to play with Cory sometime.

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:27 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:25 PM, Despothera said:

Don't see how you could have Cass as null. You really think she could fake her rambling SoC posts as scum her first time?

 

1. As far as I know there's also a SK in the mix

 

2. It's a possible. 

 

 

Open setup, Nyn.  There is an SK in the mix.

[Tommyrod]

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:02 PM, Kivam said:

You know, with what seems like a dramatic shift in how mafia's being played here since I was active - "tonereading" and meta driving lynches more than anything else, Info-lynch on Day 1 being somehow controversial - I decided to filter back through the recent games here to see how often mafia won.

 

As far as I can tell, of the last 7 games (Age of Ultron, Cthulhu, Tron, Discworld, Firefly, Dietary Habits, & Woodstock), mafia won all but 1. Small sample size, but no way scum should be 6-1 in 7 games.

 

This is not a coincidence, people. Either the games are inherently unbalanced (always a possibility) or town is playing things wrong on a grand scale.

 

Just a thought.

Don't get me started.

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:06 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:27 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:25 PM, Despothera said:

Don't see how you could have Cass as null. You really think she could fake her rambling SoC posts as scum her first time?

 

1. As far as I know there's also a SK in the mix

 

2. It's a possible. 

 

 

Open setup, Nyn.  There is an SK in the mix.

 

 

What? lol

[hazelkrs1]

  On 11/13/2014 at 8:45 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 8:26 PM, Despothera said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 8:04 PM, Kivam said:

Yes. Very, very wrong assumption. People being "right" on D1 is either random luck, absurdly poor scum play (I've seen it happen, but rarely), or players with inside information (mafia, masons). The information you get from a D1 village lynch is about helping zero in to that last group, not necessarily for the obvious reasons ("you lynched a villager! Scum! You defended a villager! Town!") and definitely not enough to reach rock solid D2 conclusions. It's a building block that can mature into something more helpful down the road, not a table of contents for the game.

I def disagree with bolded, and this kinda seems to contradict an earlier point you made about how people shouldn't consider D1 random guesswork.

 

Good town play CAN find scum on D1 without inside info, or without sloppy scum play. All it takes is astute levels of perception and no townies derping and making themselves easy targets for scum to bandwagon on

 

 

No - excluding pure luck, it takes scum making scum-looking plays. Which is the definition of sloppy play, because as scum, the goal is to play like a townie.  If you've been having a string of D1 scum hits, you aren't playing with very good players 

 

 

OR - good town can catch scum trying to "play like a townie"

 

There are still going to be slight differences in how a townie will naturally act, and how a scummer will try to emulate that behavior. A good scumhunter can find that stuff and nail scum on D1, without inside info or "getting lucky" or bad scum play

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:02 PM, Kivam said:

You know, with what seems like a dramatic shift in how mafia's being played here since I was active - "tonereading" and meta driving lynches more than anything else, Info-lynch on Day 1 being somehow controversial - I decided to filter back through the recent games here to see how often mafia won.

 

As far as I can tell, of the last 7 games (Age of Ultron, Cthulhu, Tron, Discworld, Firefly, Dietary Habits, & Woodstock), mafia won all but 1.  Small sample size, but no way scum should be 6-1 in 7 games.

 

This is not a coincidence, people.  Either the games are inherently unbalanced (always a possibility) or town is playing things wrong on a grand scale. 

 

Just a thought.

 

There was a lot of bad town play in those games, a lot of town on town violence (and I certainly had my part in that)

 

Back in the days of info lynches tho I remember seeing big scum streaks. If you looked back further, I remember a couple months ago there was a stretch where town won every game it seemed.

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:39 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:32 PM, Cass said:

What I want to know is WHY you're reading me as null, not Town. And whether the possibility-of-a-mentor-thing has something to do with that view.

 

Cos, again, I guess I want to know If you take a sec to think at everything I've written from the angle that I have written it, would it change your read of me/help convince you that I'm Town.

 

I ask because that seemed to work for Wombat.

 

Wombat - help me/her out?

 

I don't have a read on you yet. Keep posting your thoughts and I'll develop a read eventually. Usually I mix up meta with content and general experience with a player's style. In your case I lack familiarity, as with DPR and Kivam. In these cases I take more time to develop a read. So keep doing what you've been doing. 

 

You having a mentor has nothing to do with it. I have a mentor too *shrugs*

 

 

Lol.  Your mentor is probably cracking more dirty jokes than writing advice posts.  <3 Clov.

[Kivam]

Cass:

 

  Quote

 

'Don't trust meta . Especially with experienced players'. I seem to remember you telling me that early on. And in a more recent post. 'Don't trust anyone'. Again. Scummy, or at the very least sloppy if you're backing out of that idea now. on the basis you can trust your meta read of DPR/Wes.

 

You're confusing two concepts.

 

Don't trust meta means don't ever say "Wes plays this way as town, therefore he is town in this game as well".  Which has been my point on Wes over and over again: I have nothing on him.  Don't know if he's town, don't know if he's scum, because his play fits in both directions; it's play he'd make as town or scum.

 

The read I have on Wes is null.  No more, no less.  (And to say I "trust" that read is nonsensical, since it's inherently wrong; he's either town or scum, and I don't know which yet.  Will have to see much more play from him, and some flips, before I'll be able to begin to stake out a position). 

 

Re Wombat - you've got your answer straight from the marsupial's mouth

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/10/2014 at 4:28 AM, Tommyrod said:

Vanilla+ Setup

1 Wolf (Godfather OR 1x Bulletproof)

1 Wolf Roleblocker

1 Wolf N1 Vig

1 Wolf N2 Vig

1 Serial Killer (Godfather OR 1x Bulletproof)

1 Village Seer

1 Village Jailkeeper

1 Village Odd-Night Vig

1 Village Even-Night Vig

11 Vanilla Villagers

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:11 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/10/2014 at 4:28 AM, Tommyrod said:

Vanilla+ Setup

1 Wolf (Godfather OR 1x Bulletproof)

1 Wolf Roleblocker

1 Wolf N1 Vig

1 Wolf N2 Vig

1 Serial Killer (Godfather OR 1x Bulletproof)

1 Village Seer

1 Village Jailkeeper

1 Village Odd-Night Vig

1 Village Even-Night Vig

11 Vanilla Villagers

 

 

That's what I said, dingus

[Kivam]

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:06 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:27 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:25 PM, Despothera said:

Don't see how you could have Cass as null. You really think she could fake her rambling SoC posts as scum her first time?

 

1. As far as I know there's also a SK in the mix

 

2. It's a possible. 

 

 

Open setup, Nyn.  There is an SK in the mix.

 

 

LOL.  Wombat took the crazy pills too, it seems. (Unless I'm completely misreading, Nyn's saying it's possible that Cass could fake stream of consciousness posts as scum, which should be obvious).

[Kivam]

Deadline is now in under 5 hrs.  Can we get a vote count?

[WWWwombat]

WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL ARGUING ABOUT CASS READS ANYWAY?  SHE'S NOT GETTING LYNCHED TODAY, SO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:13 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:06 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:27 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:25 PM, Despothera said:

Don't see how you could have Cass as null. You really think she could fake her rambling SoC posts as scum her first time?

 

1. As far as I know there's also a SK in the mix

 

2. It's a possible. 

 

 

Open setup, Nyn.  There is an SK in the mix.

 

 

LOL.  Wombat took the crazy pills too, it seems. (Unless I'm completely misreading, Nyn's saying it's possible that Cass could fake stream of consciousness posts as scum, which should be obvious).

 

 

Actually, it's painkillers.  And they still haven't kicked in -_-

[Nynaeve]

Why, what's wrong, womby?

[Sili Quirrels]

has anyone swapped votes while i wasn't looking?

 

don't want tom to get angry at me.

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 7:23 PM, Tommyrod said:

Please no anti-American fascism ITG

 

Ta gueule, crétin.