[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

WWWwombat · November 13, 2014

Leelou, what don't you like about Darthe? He seems pretty Darthe to me but I'm wavering.

Darthe · November 13, 2014

If I had three bullets right now I'd shoot Laya, Verb and... That last shot would be a YOLO so I'd probably go Dice/Tress/Hally.
But you are voting for Kivam? And weren't you voting me for most of the day? When did that change? I saw nothing in thread about it.

I've known you for a long time and still occasionally have trouble reading you but IMO you're at like 61% town atm. I still don't trust you but you've not really done anything incriminating except for that one post I called you out on. That doesn't warrant a lynch or vig kill yet, especially not compared to the others I listed.

As for Kivam I'd rather hold off on answering that for now.

Darthe · November 13, 2014

Leelou, what don't you like about Darthe? He seems pretty Darthe to me but I'm wavering.

I'm so confused with you this game. Your opinions seem everywhere and you're taking crowd census a lot.

Leelou usually is sus of me in early game and generally decides on me for sure by mid game.

WWWwombat · November 13, 2014

Leelou, what don't you like about Darthe? He seems pretty Darthe to me but I'm wavering.

I'm so confused with you this game. Your opinions seem everywhere and you're taking crowd census a lot.

Leelou usually is sus of me in early game and generally decides on me for sure by mid game.

It's cuz I'm scum lel

DPR · November 13, 2014

I'm in blue above.
I'm not ignoring you. I'm going to respond to this later when I have a bit more time. I feel like you are arguing in circles and I can't tell if you are intentionally misunderstanding me. If you goal is to be intentionally frustrating? I don't really like that tactic, fyi. So I'm going to regroup and see if I can get in your head.

Take your time. You're probably waiting to see how a few things turn out.

@EVERYONE

This ^, coupled with the fact that the idea of Kiv and DPR heading up a team of scum would probably be fantastic (gameplay wise obviously, not for Town), truly has me worried... I know second guessing the mod's devious ways is technically null, but it's (the mod's decision) also part of the human component of the game (as far as I can deduct, + when I asked, nobody told me otherwise), and therefore, I can't help but consider it in my train of thought

Don't go there. This undercuts the credibility of your post a bit. There's like a 99.99% chance that Tommy just put all the names on a list and copy/pasted into random.org. That's how roles are typically "rolled."

So it's fine if you think they are scummy. Just don't think they are scummy because of mod shenanigans.

Out of that entire post, this is what you pick out. Noted.

Again, yall prob just think this is crazy ol Despot jumping at shadows, but I find Kivam leaving out this piece of evidence to be supportive of those two being scum together
Nope. I'm picking up what you're laying down.

I'm just less inclined to demotivate Pral to do his catch up post BEFORE deadline. He's promising more stuff "by tonight." But I don't know if that means India "tonight" or us "tonight." And either way, I think it would be after deadline. Screw that noise.

But the idea of a connection here is cray-cray. Riiiigghhht.

Looking forward to more.

Darthe · November 13, 2014

Leelou, what don't you like about Darthe? He seems pretty Darthe to me but I'm wavering.

I'm so confused with you this game. Your opinions seem everywhere and you're taking crowd census a lot.

Leelou usually is sus of me in early game and generally decides on me for sure by mid game.

It's cuz I'm scum lel

Serious response though. Y U crowdcheck so much? Also, what's your reads list look like atm?

Sili Quirrels · November 13, 2014

going out. don't expect vote count updates.

wombat is flip flopping, and pushing obtuse angles. but it's not scummy. he does that as town.

cass's reads are basic and thematic, indicative of a new player. i doubt he's a puppet. but it might be the case that people/dingus are helping him communicate.

Sili Quirrels · November 13, 2014

Leelou, what don't you like about Darthe? He seems pretty Darthe to me but I'm wavering.

I'm so confused with you this game. Your opinions seem everywhere and you're taking crowd census a lot.

Leelou usually is sus of me in early game and generally decides on me for sure by mid game.

It's cuz I'm scum lel

don't like the wifom. day 4, you're still alive and i'm still alive i'll be more inclined to vote you now.

WWWwombat · November 13, 2014

Serious response though. Y U crowdcheck so much? Also, what's your reads list look like atm?

1. Cuz I think my reads might suck.

2. See above

Darthe · November 13, 2014

Dude you have to know that you aren't making it to D4 any more than I'm going to. D1 is where it's at in a game with this many kills.

WWWwombat · November 13, 2014

don't like the wifom. day 4, you're still alive and i'm still alive i'll be more inclined to vote you now.

Only way I'm alive D4 is if Hally is scum.

Darthe · November 13, 2014

Serious response though. Y U crowdcheck so much? Also, what's your reads list look like atm?

1. Cuz I think my reads might suck.

2. See above

Bullshanks. Gimme a list, even if it's crap.

Darthe · November 13, 2014

Lol Xpost

Sili Quirrels · November 13, 2014

Dude you have to know that you aren't making it to D4 any more than I'm going to. D1 is where it's at in a game with this many kills.

point taken.

WWWwombat · November 13, 2014

    Darthe
    Kivam
    DreadPirateRoberts
    Yates.
    Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra
    Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)
    Andrej
    Krakalakachkn
    Thane Vakarian
    Tress
    TheRagnarok
    Stelio Kontos
    dicetosser1
    Sili Quirrels
    WWWwombat
    ~~Arsis~~ Pralaya
    Hallia
    Cass (Mentored by manbat)
    Leelou
    Despot / csarmi Hydra

Sili Quirrels · November 13, 2014

oh, should also be noted, in case anyone hasn't realized, cass seems to be ignoring questions/criticisms. all i remember of his history are wots, and pushing angles.

/shrug. what this means, i dunno. could be he's scum. could be dingus told him to do this. could be he's just afraid of looking awkward.

Sili Quirrels · November 13, 2014

wombi. did you like my explanation?

WWWwombat · November 13, 2014

I'm ambivalent on it.

Thane Vakarian · November 13, 2014

note: Cass = female

Sili Quirrels · November 13, 2014

note: Cass = female

i'll make up my mind on that when i note their gender status.

Sili Quirrels · November 13, 2014

I'm ambivalent on it.

sucky.

WWWwombat · November 13, 2014

Leelou, what don't you like about Darthe? He seems pretty Darthe to me but I'm wavering.

Still waiting on this btw.

Sili Quirrels · November 13, 2014

    Darthe

    Kivam

    DreadPirateRoberts

    Yates.

    Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra

    Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)

    Andrej

    Krakalakachkn

    Thane Vakarian

    Tress

    TheRagnarok

    Stelio Kontos

    dicetosser1

    Sili Quirrels

    WWWwombat

    ~~Arsis~~ Pralaya

    Hallia

    Cass (Mentored by manbat)

    Leelou

    Despot / csarmi Hydra

should lynch from the reds. :wub:

hazelkrs1 · November 13, 2014

Again, yall prob just think this is crazy ol Despot jumping at shadows, but I find Kivam leaving out this piece of evidence to be supportive of those two being scum together
Nope. I'm picking up what you're laying down.

I'm just less inclined to demotivate Pral to do his catch up post BEFORE deadline. He's promising more stuff "by tonight." But I don't know if that means India "tonight" or us "tonight." And either way, I think it would be after deadline. Screw that noise.

I think Pray makes a good backup lynch either way since it is only risking losing a VT, but imo we can garner more out of this D1 than keep on him at this point

I also think that honestly if we WERE going to go down the "info lynch only" route on D1, Darthe would be a better choice. He's been mentioned by a bunch of players, and he's had some direct interaction with some of the "louder" players or other people in the limelight

By that logic hydra's should be better D1 lynches because the different members allow for subsets of interactions. Also BS that you try to find different reasons to push votes onto me every so often.

Okay Mynd :tongue:

And how is it BS? You've been one of my top scum reads ALL GAME. How is it weird for me to try and push votes onto one of my top scum reads???

First ##unvote. I have no idea why Arsis was voting Nyn.

Caught up to 30 pages, that's all. That is about as much I could manage.

If you guys are going to lynch me just based on how Arsis played, I cannot do much about it. I can see why some people are finding Arsis scummy based on my read so far, but it is his standard play in any game.

Anyway, I am VT. Not much loss other than a town down.

if that ^ will stop people from voting him, i'll bite some heads off.

:laugh:

**Caught up to page 63, Post #1256**

Aside from the whole Des/DPR thing (leaving that well alone for now), it was probably post 1092 that really set me pinging off on DPR. Link provided for context. I'll give a general view on the things that ticked me off about it at the top. The spoiler is the post with 'wolfy' things highlighted in red, and my reactions to those are in a bigger font, red and bold (y'know, assuming the colour thing works this time).

So, when a player jumps into their first game, the other players (for the most part) welcome them and provide info so that they can catch onto things more quickly. Some sites have a no-lynch policy for first timers on D1 to keep things in perspective and fair. The idea here is that the game can be complex and we'd all rather see someone fall in love with it than get frustrated. You have noticed folks doing that in this game.

However, your post below gives the impression that you know much more about this game than a first timer normally would.

if you are a mafia prodigy and acting of your own accord, I can't wait to see more from you.

But, and what seems more likely to me at this point, If you are being used as a puppet, I'm sorry. It's not fair for another player to use you like this.

To your points, I find your first sentence above biased as you claim that you intend to leave the "Des/DPR thing" alone and then you do no such thing. This speaks of an agenda to distance yourself from the argument, and then working your way around to addressing it directly. That's pretty advanced stuff for a first timer.

RECAP OF THOUGHTS / CURRENT LEAN ON DPR

Krak asks DPR a legitimate question about his stance on Des. And DPR ignores the specifics and goes on with generalised fluff.

Not true. Not try at all. I clearly state that I did not understand Krak's question. Krak has yet to reply.

I feel like this response to Krak is BS (Disclaimer: I have Krak down as a generally Townie player for now). I feel like Krak deserved a decent answer, in the best interests of the Town.

Sounds personal to me. And teh mock outrage in bold is indicative of someone becoming overly emotional about the topic.

That DPR didn't answer this - and that he did the same thing with Des (regardless of how tired we all were of Des' rampage, if he's Town he obviously feels he's onto something, and probably also deserves a response).

Wow. I clearly did answer the question, so that is again false. But, more importantly, nice cheerleading for Des! Des is obviously onto something? Des deserves a response? Go team Des?!

Even though you stated you were going to leave this alone, here you are starting an argument that has more to do with supporting Des than it does bringing suspicion and points against me.

I would have thought that anyone Town would have answered these questions as best as they were able, in the interests of clearing the air and moving on... but that didn't happen.

I missed the part where you know lots and lots about what is good for the town? Interestingly, because others cannot teach you nuance, you have missed the majority of what I've said in multiple posts. It's not your fault - far from it. But I have to point it out for obvious reasons.

Basically, I feel like his response to Krak is BS. Although the rest of the post comes across as a clever mix of truth and scum. It's not fair on the rest of Town to avoid answering questions about why he's avoiding answering questions about Des. Des became a loud player there for a while and, looking at Krak's post he's potentially gaining some traction.

Not fair on the rest of the town? Not fair to avoid answering questions about why I avoid Des? Des became a loud player and is gaining traction? This looks like either Des wrote this for you, or someone who wants to paint that impression did.

@ DPR - Even if you have no regard for how Des plays, it's not fair on the rest of Town to refuse to answer what he asks because you don't consider him to be an 'authority'. It's not about not getting into a flame war. (1.) For me it's about you providing us with more to read. You refusing to do that is Wolfy, IMO. And, TBH, I find that much of the rest of your post to be exactly what you highlight in your last 3 points as what you claim you would do as scum if somebody was pinging in on you: ie: 1. (2.) Over posting intending to bury posts and poison player's reps (Your response to Ragnarok). 2. Steer any conversation away from points that could be damaging (Your response to Krak). 3. Poop on the thread so that people avoid it and don't talk. (Most of this post, potentially - which is extra scary with your 'weight')....

Okay, so we get that you are in love with Des, but why am I supposed to have regard for him? And again with the "not fair for the town" bit. Miraculously, you have zeroed in on me (much like the tunneling of another player...) and speak nothing about what's fair to the town in any of your other cases about other players? Not a peep about any of the inactives or the seagulls. No criticism whatsoever of Des tunneling me. I find these things suspicious given that you are such an expert on what's good for the town...

To your critique of my points in my post, it makes little sense for you cry about (1.) wanting to read more from me and then accusing me of (2.) over posting. Then you slag my post in general and call me scary because of my 'weight'? How do you know anything about my "weight"? No one even cares about my weight, haven't commented on it other than jabs. Yet here you are, spicing the dish with meta-rep that you have no idea about. Wow.

Coincidently, you said this after I felt I was increasingly clear about that fact that I may have been pinging in on you, and alongside Csarmi AND Des

You feel that because you say you are pinging on me, I'm supposed to answer differently? Sounds like an over-inflated ego to me...

Csarmi AND Des are great guys, yeah?

(?and maybe others - NB TheRagnarok's post 1116 too) pinging in on you too). If you're telling the truth about that being what you would do as Scum then I really don't like where this is going.... (and yes, Csarmi, Des and Ragnarok and whoever else and I could be scum too, granted/goes without saying, but you're gaining some serious Scum ping here and if you're Town it makes sense that you answer the questions and help us all out, am I right?)

At the end of this, I think it's time for another direct question - you haven't been responding to my posts either - Why? Where do you stand on me (and why)?

It's your first game. I feel the same way about you that I feel for every first time player: Welcome to the game. Ask when you have a question. Make points as you see them and enjoy.

That's it.

Except now I feel really terrible for you because I think someone is taking unfair advantage of your situation.

@EVERYONE

This ^, coupled with the fact that the idea of Kiv and DPR heading up a team of scum would probably be fantastic (gameplay wise obviously, not for Town), truly has me worried... I know second guessing the mod's devious ways is technically null, but it's (the mod's decision) also part of the human component of the game (as far as I can deduct, + when I asked, nobody told me otherwise), and therefore, I can't help but consider it in my train of thought

This is the worst kind of WIFOM you can shovel. The worst. Just so you know.

DPR is giving me some bad juju recently. Everything looks good on the surface, but it feels wrong.

To me this reads "My friend doesn't like you and neither do I". By all means, post opinions and quotes and cases but knee-jerking to an obvious "Oldster vs. New Gen" cage match setup isn't going to help the town.

Questions:

@DPR - In your post here I don't see you coming down on a side of the authority issue wrt Despo. Do you have an opinion on Despo taking the authoritative high ground and what is your follow-up opinion on Verb's use of the same play while interacting with Thane in the first few pages?

Krak, I don't undersstand what you are asking here. If you asking if I consider Des to be an authority on mafia, the answer is no (I've already noted what I think of his game).

Nor do I believe or support any "high-ground" plays. On D1, every player is equal. Wolves are gonna lie. We all know this. Until the dying starts, there is no high or low ground, there is only collecting posts to use as evidence of connections. **OBVIOUS generalisations, SPECIFICALLY avoiding the question = Padding and fluff???**

I don't have a strong opinion on Verb or Thane yet.

Des: no better way to clear a teammate than by explaining his behavior in a post that also scumreads, because it has the full explanatory effect whole allowing the "I wasn't defending" play you are currently making. I have you mostly town, so I'm not putting to much weight on it, but it's a fact worth noting in case later play changes that read or you or Yates flip scum
Wow. Wifom up the wazoo. Is everyone taking crazy pills right now?

Kivam - this post is complete nonsense. You are creating a false connection here. I'm pointing out that I'm chastising you so that if you flip scum I can be cleared as Town. How do you like that "logic?"

Insane.

There is a 0% chance that Yates does not understand what Kivam is getting at. < This statement I agree with. But was the motive behind it distancing from a scummy pal?

Des: no better way to clear a teammate than by explaining his behavior in a post that also scumreads, because it has the full explanatory effect whole allowing the "I wasn't defending" play you are currently making. I have you mostly town, so I'm not putting to much weight on it, but it's a fact worth noting in case later play changes that read or you or Yates flip scum
Wow. Wifom up the wazoo. Is everyone taking crazy pills right now?

Kivam - this post is complete nonsense. You are creating a false connection here. I'm pointing out that I'm chastising you so that if you flip scum I can be cleared as Town. How do you like that "logic?"

Insane.

Of course. Scum who aren't setting up WIFOMs from Day 1 are asleep at the switch and asking to take their teammates down with them if they get caught. You don't do that as scum? I sure as hell do, which means I always keep my eyes open for it. I also find it interesting that you are trying to imply that there is no possible connection between you and DesLami.

Yates is a very skilled player. He's fun to watch, adept at big plays and absolutely not afraid to kick off D1 with strong moves.

^^^ ***Whole thing smells of scum team interaction/distancing to me?***

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

You're not the only one.

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

Oh God I hope not. I'm trying to cut them both some slack because I got burned scum reading Rags in his first game back. But damn. The stuff they are honing in on is so frivolous and nonsensical I just can't understand the logic...

Awwww guys, we appreciate you and all but it's really not necessary. ***Cute. Csarmi makes a point, potential scum jumps on the band wagon with a post that smells like buddying and scum distancing, and the accused just leaves it to reputation to take care of the heat??** (People, correct me if I'm wrong!)

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

I agree. And he's kind of trying - and very awkwardly I must say - to defend DPR without looking like he's defending DPR

Anyways, Imma go ahead and get out a fresh POE, then I need to start doing some errands cause ho lee krap I have been on here all friggin day

See my reaction above - Same. CSARMI and DES - thoughts?

I've asked some questions and made some statements about players and moves I thought they might be making.

I've been very specific about what I consider to be fact and what I consider to be speculation. All of this REEKS OF SCUM TO ME. (see explanation at the top)

I expect and encourage everybody else to do the same.

On D1, it's all conjecture, and the more GRC players add, the more we'll find out who's radar is on, etc.

I find Yates 3A speech to be total bullshit. I find Yates Seer claim to be WIFOM, which in and of itself is not big deal. But, I find Des explaining Yates claim to be a possible connection between the two. I've made this clear. I find Des backtracking on his initial enthusiasm over the effectiveness of Seer Cover to be a reaction to my calling it a possible connection. I find Sili picking up the Seer Cover Support Points conversation this morning to be suspicious and another possible connection.

I'm not going to get into a flame war with Des because Des is an emotional train wreck. Des is obsessed with me and it's unfortunate, but there it is.

All of this is documented and clear. No muss, no fuss.

For this afternoon, I see a concentrated effort to paint that "Oldster vs. New Gen" argument. To me, this is a pure scum technique - what a waste of everybody's time to fold up a buch of meta-paper-airplanes and send them all across the room.

If I was scum and somebody was pinging in on me on D1 with 30 hours to go until lynch, I would try to derail the thread with:

1. Emotional over posting intended to bury posts and poison players reps.

2. Steer any conversation away from points that could be damaging.

3. Poop on the thread so that people avoid it and don't talk.

I'm watching at all of these things taking place right now.

DPR - can you please reply? If you're Town I'd reeeaaallly like to know!

Other people - Help??

So, my overall thought, of course, is that your burnt.

I'm in blue throughout the post.

I didn't address the spoiler points because I felt them to be an overly emotional rehashing of the above points.

Anyone else find it ironic that DPR twice called me out for "shaming" other players, yet here he is, in an extremely condascending way, implying that Cass is being used as a puppet and isn't even writing her own posts or something?

:rolleyes:

Also think it's funny that DPR tries to paint anyone that suspects him as being "overly emotional" and thus is able to deflect them the same way he tries to deflect my suspicions.

Tbh I find his entire emotional manipulation of Cass in this post to be pretty slimy all together. Like I think he's scum, and I also think it's pretty disrespectful to continuously imply that Cass isn't able to make genuine observations on her own but that scummates instead are writing her posts for her or something.

Nynaeve · November 13, 2014

DESlami says Krak is "jumping at straws" - agreed, though I'd say more "grasping" than "jumping" (why would one jump at a straw?).

lmfao!

[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

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