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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

Tommyrod

By Tommyrod
in DM Mafia Games

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Kivam Spam Master

Kivam

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 1:37 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:06 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote
Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

 

Because your language is stilted language, and implies a guilty conscience? :huh:

 

ironically, i was only grasping at straws. but the longer this goes unanswered, and the more i look at the wording, the more peculiar it sounds. usually i'm not one to read too much into content and structure but this sort of phrasing pings me as posturing from an inexperienced wolf.

 

how he centers himself by reiterating bad juju, or recaps to ask a question he probably should have made sooner compels me to think he was pointedly ignoring it but is now trying to demonstrate tact.

 

i guess i would like to know how experienced barm is, and whether he's made any other overtures to address nyn and co's concerns with his gameplay.

 

 

Years of experience

 

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Yates Master

Yates

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 2:35 PM, Stelio Kontos said:

How I tend to approach the game (and, as a corollary, why I'm useful as a box of rocks on day 1): I tend to sort of form a mental "association cloud" of people's interactions with each other; it's not so much that individual actions are inherently wolfy or villagery, though of course some can be (but if they're that obvious you don't need me to find them anyway), it's more that "people tend to gravitate toward each other's positions throughout the thread".

Well, your cloud is cirrostratus and needs to get on the cumulonimbus level before you can make it rain in here. For example, replace "Thane" with "Yates" in your drive think from yesterday. That's kind of an important distinction.
Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 2:57 PM, WWWwombat said:

Also, idk why people like Cass so much.  She seems very self-conscious.

I don't think that self-conscious is a bad thing for a newbie but I am not yet willing to town-read her either.  My main reason is that she looks over-coached.  It's kind of ironic that Arsis hasn't called her on it.  

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 3:02 PM, WWWwombat said:

@Darthe: Pralaya subbed in for Arsis.

.....

 

 

This explains so much.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

What page plz?

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 2:57 PM, WWWwombat said:

Also, idk why people like Cass so much.  She seems very self-conscious.

 

I am very self-conscious. One of my biggest problems in life is I that I cannot stand miscommunication/misinterpretation causing problems. It's why I'm such a perfectionist and why here my posts take me so freaking long to write. And here I am in a game where misinterpretation is likely, encouraged by the wolves on the board, and can result in me getting kicked from a game I'm likely to enjoy. I'm definitely self conscious. In the turbo/only other game I've played, not explaining my self-consciousness enough early and up-front is what managed to get me mislynched N1. It's a genuine character flaw *shrugs*. In this game, I would say I've been honest about that upfront.

 

I'm not sure why that makes you question if people like me, but I'm not sure I can explain any better than I have? 

DPR Spam Master

DPR

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 2:53 PM, WWWwombat said:

I think the people arguing against seer cover aren't looking at the circumstances of this game very carefully.  The main reason not to like seer cover is that it essentially gives the seer a shelf-life.  That being said, the setup of this game already puts the seer on a shelf life.  Town has two part-time vigs.  Mafia has two extra kills and a roleblocker.  Town does not have a doc but a jailkeeper (much less effective at protecting cops).  All of this means that not only is the seer more likely to die to nightkill, but once the seer hardclaims, he or she is unlikely to get another viewing off.

 

As for Yates hardclaiming to start the seer cover, that probably wasn't the best move on a site that isn't used to seer cover, but it's not something that makes him scum.  It's still a null-to-town move overall imo.

 

Personally, I didn't worry when Yates made the claim. 

 

I worry about all of the commentary after - the moves behind the moves.

 

Yates could have easily made the claim and let it be. If anyone asked, he could have explained it. Or, he could have explained it while he was doing it to try and get a thing started. I don't have a problem with any of that as it's up front and makes sense.

 

But, my radar pings when Des comes into to explain Yate's moves. Yet, a person could argue that Des takes it upon himself to explain everybody's moves. But, when Sili shows up and starts laying down the same rhetoric Des did (before Des had to back off and distance himself from it) I take notice.

 

And, when other players still bring it up, I take more notice. Dead horse and all that...

Sili Quirrels Master

Sili Quirrels

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 2:48 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:38 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote
This seems emo to me - it's a simple error and your quote isn't tagged. Either way, my point is that you choose to focus on a point with no evidence while simultaneously disregarding evidence on the table.

 

A little, but I disagree with your use of 'attack'. it implies hostility or conviction. neither of which are the case.

 

What do you mean by evidence? Tone reading a fishy post should be completely valid, and I wasn't aware I was disregarding anything.

 

 

Interesting that you are the second player to make mention of my adjectives.

 

If I comment that you have "attacked" a post, I'm dying that you chose a post and a point to object to and brought it up in thread. You attacked it. There might be a "soft attack" or a "hard attack", but it's an attack nonetheless.

 

If I comment that you are "shaming" another player, it means that you've use insulting verbiage to belittle their play or leaned on them as if you were more experienced than they are.

 

Personally, I find mincing words scummish.

 

If I say "evidence", I'm referring to an action by a player, documented, that can used to reference continuity later. 

 

"Tone reading" and hunches in general are speculation. They can be useful as guides - I have a few right now - but they are not submittable  in court.

 

In my experience, players that favor hunches over evidence find themselves at the wrong end of the noose or knife.

 

no, the point isn't to belabor word choice, but to elaborate on why I reacted the way i did - the words you used. i would say nudge, or speculate, in place of attack because they're more relevant and less hyperbolic.

.

in regards to the bolded, if you use words differently than i would then i'm going to ask what you mean so to facilitate a discussion.

 

i agree hunches are not pushes; they're closer to statements of intent. tone reading, however, is different. how someone responds and what they respond to are very key in an analysis since the content of a post  can be fabricated in forum mafia but tone and flow are difficult for wolfpack to imitate.

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 2:31 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:20 PM, Barmacral said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:03 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:53 PM, Barmacral said:

At that point in the game anyone at all, the game had just started and up to then there had been exactly zero real content. And it worked, multiple people responded and blew things out of proportion for what I entirely agree should have amounted to nothing.

 

So.... you're saying you said it for reactions and didn't actually find it weird?

 

 

Yeah, like I mentioned there was no information to go on and everyone was still in hello and spam mode, so I started something to see where it went

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:13 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:25 PM, Barmacral said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:45 AM, Darthe said:
____________________________________________________________________
 
Barmacral, on 11 Nov 2014 - 4:14 PM, said:
Any votes that are on pral are because of plays Arsis made and are still as valid regardless of the player switch, it is up to Pral to convince people that they are wrong about Arsis.
 
And on that note I'm off to bed. See you all tomorrow.
 
____________________________________________________________________
 
This is weird posturing because it assumes that Laya and Arsis have to face off and forces that mentality.  Why would Laya have to react that 

 

 

What? I don't understand you here. Are you suggesting that Prayala get a clean slate? I'm not posturing or forcing any mentality. Your comment is confusing and exceptionally weird.

 

 

This is definitely pushing an angle.  Forcing a mentality was a bad way to say that, which I'll concede.  I don't see how Arsis making decisions validates votes on Laya which is what I'm calling bs on.  Can you explain that in your comment?  Also, I didn't say Laya should have a clean slate anywhere.  

 

 

No, you directly implied it. Kivam has already answered your question here:

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:56 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:25 PM, Barmacral said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:45 AM, Darthe said:
____________________________________________________________________
 
Barmacral, on 11 Nov 2014 - 4:14 PM, said:
Any votes that are on pral are because of plays Arsis made and are still as valid regardless of the player switch, it is up to Pral to convince people that they are wrong about Arsis.
 
And on that note I'm off to bed. See you all tomorrow.
 
____________________________________________________________________
 
This is weird posturing because it assumes that Laya and Arsis have to face off and forces that mentality.  Why would Laya have to react that 

 

 

What? I don't understand you here. Are you suggesting that Prayala get a clean slate? I'm not posturing or forcing any mentality. Your comment is confusing and exceptionally weird.

 

 

This.  Praya may not be able to "explain" moves that Arsis made - he can't know what was in Arsis' head - but it's one roster spot and the reads are on the roster spot, not the player (i.e. whatever alignment Arsis had, so does Praya).  Praya's play may change things, but there sure as hell ain't no clean slate

 

 

 

Not to be dense but I am really not getting this.  Is there something I'm missing here because I don't see how they are so connected and that's what got me on this in the first place.

 

 

 

This no longer needs explaining.

Kivam Spam Master

Kivam

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 2:57 PM, WWWwombat said:

Also, idk why people like Cass so much.  She seems very self-conscious.

 

Don't have a read on her, but that post was full of teh mafia goodness, especially for a new player (coached or not).  This game aside, she looks like a good add to the player rotation.

Sili Quirrels Master

Sili Quirrels

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 2:55 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:37 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:06 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote
Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

 

Because your language is stilted language, and implies a guilty conscience? :huh:

 

ironically, i was only grasping at straws. but the longer this goes unanswered, and the more i look at the wording, the more peculiar it sounds. usually i'm not one to read too much into content and structure but this sort of phrasing pings me as posturing from an inexperienced wolf.

 

how he centers himself by reiterating bad juju, or recaps to ask a question he probably should have made sooner compels me to think he was pointedly ignoring it but is now trying to demonstrate tact.

 

i guess i would like to know how experienced barm is, and whether he's made any other overtures to address nyn and co's concerns with his gameplay.

 

 

Years of experience

 

 

he told me he's been off for a few years.

Leelou Spam Master

Leelou

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 3:04 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 3:02 PM, WWWwombat said:

@Darthe: Pralaya subbed in for Arsis.

.....

 

 

This explains so much.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

What page plz?

 

 

Couple pages back. 

DPR Spam Master

DPR

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 3:03 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:53 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Why are you post-padding?

Wait. What? How am I "post padding?"

 

 

Your post dealt primarily with another game and commentary regarding the current state of DM mafia.

 

What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Yates Master

Yates

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 3:06 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

And, when other players still bring it up, I take more notice. Dead horse and all that...

By "other players" are you referring specifically to Cass? If so, Cass is a new player, just getting caught up, and asked about it. So I don't think this was a "dead horse" for someone that doesn't know the backstory, the strategy, or the meta of the players involved. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Leelou Spam Master

Leelou

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 3:10 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:55 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:37 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:06 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote
Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

 

Because your language is stilted language, and implies a guilty conscience? :huh:

 

ironically, i was only grasping at straws. but the longer this goes unanswered, and the more i look at the wording, the more peculiar it sounds. usually i'm not one to read too much into content and structure but this sort of phrasing pings me as posturing from an inexperienced wolf.

 

how he centers himself by reiterating bad juju, or recaps to ask a question he probably should have made sooner compels me to think he was pointedly ignoring it but is now trying to demonstrate tact.

 

i guess i would like to know how experienced barm is, and whether he's made any other overtures to address nyn and co's concerns with his gameplay.

 

 

Years of experience

 

 

he told me he's been off for a few years.

 

 

Barm's been playing at least as long as me, if not a bit longer. He took a break, but he's still an experienced player. 

WWWwombat Spam Master

WWWwombat

Posted
Posted

LOCK CLEAR

WWWwombat

 

SOLID TOWN
TheRagnarok
Tress
Thane Vakarian
Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)
Andrej

 

TOWN LEAN
Leelou
Yates.
Hallia
Stelio Kontos

 

NULL/MIXED
dicetosser1
Cass (Mentored by manbat)
Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra
Krakalakachkn
Despot / csarmi Hydra

 

SCUM LEAN
Sili Quirrels
Darthe
Kivam
DreadPirateRoberts
Arsis Pralaya

Thane Vakarian Grand Master

Thane Vakarian

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 3:02 PM, Darthe said:

Thane you never did tell me how you got your town and wolf reads.

i try to get a feel for players, see how they interact with others and if something seems off. D1 i trust my gutfeeling a lot. 

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

*At this point, lagged 9 pages (haven't read them) and have ended up on p. 43* It's making me nervous because I can tell that I must have been the subject of some conversation but I haven't read why. Will comment on this and then go back. There will probably be a delay in replies.

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 3:02 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 2:57 PM, WWWwombat said:

Also, idk why people like Cass so much.  She seems very self-conscious.

I don't think that self-conscious is a bad thing for a newbie but I am not yet willing to town-read her either.  My main reason is that she looks over-coached.  It's kind of ironic that Arsis hasn't called her on it.  

 

 

Darthe, what do you mean by 'over-coached'? I gave an accurate account of what Monstr has done for me here in response to Thane's general question about how he'd been treating me. I will admit I've been reading up on the wiki and other sites like there's no tomorrow since I joined in sign up (to the detriment of my final Exam on Monday, actually), but I'm like that. The way I'm acting makes perfect sense to me, in the context of me :rolleyes: I like a good challenge, have an addictive personality, hate confusion and like to win. DICE and maybe even THANE can probably even vouch for this ... (Guys?)

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 3:15 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 3:02 PM, Darthe said:

Thane you never did tell me how you got your town and wolf reads.

i try to get a feel for players, see how they interact with others and if something seems off. D1 i trust my gutfeeling a lot. 

 

That is not helpful.  Plz post a town/scum list with reasons for having people on each slot.

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