[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Nynaeve]

light town leans to Wombat, Thane, Salami/Des.

 

Still half sleeping so I'll elaborate later. But in a nutshell... hydra mostly a salami read. Annoying and doesnt make sense to me. And when I REALLY wanna bite his head off for being preachy then he's usually town. Des' content seems decent so far so an overall good feeling there.

 

My interaction with Thane and his posts since are helping me me follow his train of thought. And so far it looks like townie Thane.

 

As far as Wombat goes, I found myself agreeing with most of his posts. He's making sense and I like that. His vote on me seems unfounded but D1 and not having much to go on... so not holding it against him.

 

 

Gonna look through Arsis posts later. I'm kinda looking for elements of awkwardness and displeasure cause he doesnt like rolling town. I think I might have seen some posts to that effect so read pending.

 

Not a huge fan of the Bram/Verbal hydra right now. There were posts of both I didn't much care for.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Ok, but this is mafia.  Inside jokes are not sacred.  Neither are warder bonds.

Why are we even still talking about this? It went beyond "inside joke" in the last game and became borderline cheating. Period. That's it. Yeah, I wish I knew this game was starting sooner. If I had known, I would have said something in the signup thread rather than wait for the current game to finish. But we typically did this in our first couple of posts in the previous games so I felt like putting the kaibosh on it. Otherwise I would have had weigh subbing out.

 

If ANYONE should find me scummy for pointing it out, it's Dice and AJ. This doesn't concern you. And since the meat of this argument is from an ongoing game I'm done talking about it and you just have to wait for the game to finish - as I told Verb - if you feel like you need me to be more specific.

 

Frankly, harping on an outside the thread "tell" that you have no part of looks like scum trying to push an angle you don't even fully understand because you know I can't be specific yet.

 

 

Yates I don't like you trying to fos Wombat over a pretty natural reaction to what you said.

 

Also, I don't think the "inside joke" was anywhere near cheating imo. If, as scum, you would be uncomfortable in lying to someone in ANY context, no matter what the inside joke or reference or w/e is, then you're just bad scum. This is mafia. Anything goes (well, to a degree, we've had discussions about how lying about rl is kinda crappy to do period). I don't care if I had some kind of running thing with someone that we repeated in multiple games we were town together or something- if I roll scum, I will GLADLY abuse that same thing to make others think I'm town, and anyone that wouldn't well, is kinda touting integrity in a false manner imo.

 

Look at the whole #Alliance thing. If one of that group rolls scum, you think they'll back down from forming a "town" power core with the other members of it who are actually town? Hell to the nah. They'll act like they're ready to #alliance it up just like normal.

 

Acting like any friendship or bond between someone makes you somehow above abusing said bond or relationship in mafia is disingenuous imo, cause anyone who was actually hurt by that kind of action just shouldn't play mafia. You're MEANT to break the biggest bonds of trust between you and other players if you're mafia, and not doing so is ~playing against your wincon

 

Yeah, wombat ~number 1 scum.

 

vote today or else lose your chapels. ##wombat

 

(have no idea what the context behind my vote is. Just doing it cause I think aj is scum and wombat is by association :3)

 

 

What? Me?

 

I'm voting wombat partly because i haven't developed a read of him and partly because his communication with aj pinged me the wrong way.

 

Doesn't mean I want to lynch him.

 

.....

 

Okay, this is good. Now, how do we go about confirming you're scum? The simplest way is to lynch or night kill, but these have negative repercussions in the off chance you're town. ________________ You have the ability to nk? [V]##sili [/v]

 

I retract my earlier thing Kivam, the _______ part makes it pretty clear now at least what you're saying

 

Lolz Kivam is used to a DM where that sort of technicality would have gained traction.  Should be fun to see how he manages.  Is Barm getting caught up on all of that by Verb off thread?

 

Don't like the way Darthe discredits Kivam here. What others said is a lot more valid, about how there ARE town NK's in this setup so Sili's post wasn't necessarily a scumslip, which is how Kivam's post kind of implied. HOWEVER, Darthe saying that technicality wouldn't gain traction, in that dismissive tone of his, def makes me think Sili/Darthe could be scumbros

 

 

 

The one that fails to do what you say town people naturally end up doing. Where you try to provide cover for sili in the guise of teaching.

 

There's no making up for the bias represented here.  Good talk.  

 

 

Ewwwwww. What bias?

 

[unvote] [v] ##nyn[/v]

 

 

My biggest scum read so far.

 

 

[v[##nyn[/v]

 

^^^Incredibly opportunistic votes. Arsis fos's and argues with Nyn a bit, but doesn't actually vote her until Wombat does so, and then Sili attempts to hop on the bandwagon after already saying his vote doesn't represent any intent to lynch anyone (which is scummy as hell btw)

[Thane Vakarian]

vote: ##Sili

 

dunno.... don't like his gameplay so far. Doesn't feel like his joking D1 self through the thread.

 

Des feels good for now, have some doubts about Darthe. Nyn does seem town to me, so i'm keeping Arsis' actions in the back of my mind.

 

i need more coffee

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

 

What? Me?

 

I'm voting wombat partly because i haven't developed a read of him and partly because his communication with aj pinged me the wrong way.

 

Doesn't mean I want to lynch him.

You voting someone yet you don't wanna lunch them?

 

What's the problem? I'm pressure voting, fishing for reactions so my gut can pick up a better read.

 

Tomcat does it all the time.

 

 

FYI   You are not Tom.

 

Hah.

 

Sure.

 

But I can still learn from him, and others.

[hazelkrs1]

Gonna go ahead and do an early POE cause WHY NOT, AMIRITE?

 

Nulls (either haven't posted or haven't posted enough for me to get a firm read on):

 

Cass

DPR

Rags

Tress

Hallia

 

Blues (I know, a bit early for this, but hey, I also have the right to change my mind):

 

Nyn

AJ

Leelou

Wombat

Thane

 

I've had some mindmelds with Nyn early on, and I feel that she is genuinely trying to develop reads on players- if she was scum she could have either used those WKing Thane about his mislynch past to try and push him as a suspect, or else hedge more on him later instead of townreading him. AJ has looked good in general so far, and he's a bit associative as well considering Sili's scummy handling of him. Leelou is active and pointing out stuff I think a town!Leelou would be likely to, and isn't lurking when she gets attention or anything, quite the opposite. Wombat looks good for some stuff early on, looks good for the manner in which he is questioning Yates, the only thing I don't like is his vote on Nyn but I can see where he's coming from there (that Nyn could be scum wasting time on arguing on pointless manners) I just don't think he's correct. Thane looked questionable at first, but now seems to be replying in a Thane-y sort of way, and I feel that the way Arsis is WKing him is more likely a w/v relationship (that scum!Arsis is defending town!Thane)

 

Greens (still feel town on, but would be much more open to changing my mind on these):

 

Krak

Kivam

Stelio

Verb/Barm

 

I first off disagree with my hydra head that a vote on Krak at this point is wise- he isn't that reactive, or active really, most the time so meh. I also liked Krak pointing out that post of Nyn's and saying it was townie. Light townie points for that since I don't see the scum motivation in doing that if Nyn is town like I think she is. Kivam is a bit associative, I think some people are trying to dismiss or discredit him as an old fossil. Kivam was always on the leading edge of mafia back when he played more often, and none of the newer trends like tonereading or anything will be difficult for him to get comfortable with imo. Stelio looks good for a newer player in this environment, and already looks willing to dip his toes in the water. Barm's posting looks better than Verb's imo, but Verb has read as town for my gut as well.

 

Oranges (slight scum reads, but more wary and willing to reconsider):

 

Dice

Yates

 

Dice is here mainly cause of his OP, and then eh it's weak but the simple smiley emotes from him in response to Yates' stuff about the three amigos and whatnot seemed kinda meh for him. Would expect him to espouse more on that sort of thing. Yates looks slightly wolfy for acting self-conscious about the three amigos thing, and also defensive when others react in what seems to me like a natural way to react to what he's saying

 

Reds (strongest scum reads, would be very much willing to lynch any of this group):

 

Darthe

Sili

Arsis

 

Darthe looks like he's trying to force a casual tone in his posts, and also got a bit too wordy when talking to Sili, I agree with Barm that that could have been w/w "coaching" ITT (as a way of kind of distancing that he's coaching him in the QT). I also didn't like all the hedging talk on hydra heads- Darthe has plenty of experience with hydras so that talk seemed mega wolfy coming from him. Sili looks turrible so far. Admitting to not having any context to a vote so obviously doesn't make it less scummy. Also don't like him bringing up his own meta in self-defense. Arsis looks mega opportunistic with his push on Nyn, I don't like his WKing of Thane, and his justification for said WKing (Thane being "seriously pushed" on page 2) doesn't hold up either

[hazelkrs1]

[v]##Arsis[/v]

[Sili Quirrels]

vote: ##Sili

 

dunno.... don't like his gameplay so far. Doesn't feel like his joking D1 self through the thread.

 

Des feels good for now, have some doubts about Darthe. Nyn does seem town to me, so i'm keeping Arsis' actions in the back of my mind.

 

i need more coffee

What? I didn't know that was a town tell. How am I supposed to sound? I thought I was joking.

[Thane Vakarian]

i know you think you're joking, but... the more you actually need to say you're joking, the less you will be believed imo

[Sili Quirrels]

 

^^^Incredibly opportunistic votes. Arsis fos's and argues with Nyn a bit, but doesn't actually vote her until Wombat does so, and then Sili attempts to hop on the bandwagon after already saying his vote doesn't represent any intent to lynch anyone (which is scummy as hell btw)

 

 

Despi, mate, my votes don't matter this early on, and i promise to be more conservative when it does matter. right now though, there's no harm in enhancing a wagon and observing the aftermath.

 

i would prefer to do this until i have a feel for the game and the participants.

[Sili Quirrels]

i know you think you're joking, but... the more you actually need to say you're joking, the less you will be believed imo

that's fair, though it leaves me in a precarious spot because i don't know how to convince you this is normal behavior for me.

 

perhaps, we should say, that i was pushed for a day and a half and that's left me with deep traumatic seeds that are now depressing my wim.

 

or perhaps, because i'm playing two different games i'm spread too thin.

[Thane Vakarian]

2 games simultaneously is something i avoid if possible. For now, i think you're not being pushed that hard even. Why so defensive? You're nowhere near L-1 for now. Feels to me as if you have something to hide bro. 

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

His case on you wasn't super strong, about as strong as any day 1 case, but it wasn't horrible either. I'm finding your rather out of proportion response to be much more telling.

 

I don't think it was really a scum tell. I haven't gone through one game where someone hasn't voted somebody in the first few hours of gameplay. Sure, if they keep it there and don't try at all to scum hunt, there's certainly a case for lynching them, but the game has just started.

 

I think you're mischaracterizing a bit here.

 

1) I made it pretty clear I wasn't voting you for the Thane 'joke'. I felt the way you did vote him under the guise of a joke was bad because of the pretense it carried. It was playful in manner but the intent behind it bothered me.

 

Sili voting Thane as a D1 lynch as if it's a foregone conclusion rubs me the wrong way even if it was a "joke"

 

2) You mentioned something before this about how if your vote remained on Thane I might have a case. I think you downplayed this point yourself by moving your vote shortly after I stated that it could've been an attempt to bury it on your part.

 

1) oh, i get it, and understand where you're coming from.

 

2) lemme explain. people didn't like my vote on thane, and personally it doesn't matter to me where i keep it, so i figured it was time to find a better wagon.

[Sili Quirrels]

2 games simultaneously is something i avoid if possible. For now, i think you're not being pushed that hard even. Why so defensive? You're nowhere near L-1 for now. Feels to me as if you have something to hide bro. 

Playing two games on the same forum is very difficult, but I'm fine if it goes south.

 

My paranoia is because of my last lynch. I am scared to death of being lynched for null reasons, and I overreacted to aj. I am sorry.

[dicetosser1]

@ despo

 

re OP   the first line was meant as an observation not a whinge but i guess you could take it either way. not sure it really matters tbh. I never understand people saying this person is scummy cause of how they said they were here.  its their first post. unless they do a Rand or unless you know each other well like verb/leelou i dunno what it tells anyone.

 

 

the three amigos thing.  i was going to not comment on this. but seeing as people keep bringing it up i will once only. 

I knew what he was saying. I knew why he was saying it. AJ totally got sold out by not playing along. and yates thing to me in marlfox gave me a read on him.

 

Could any of us abuse this? yes we could. but we choose not to.

 

Mafia doesn't HAVE to be about abusing every little thing you can.

 

 look at turin and ithi.  he buddys her no matter what but you can read him on it but what they NEVER do is go at each other. i cant think of a game where they even cased each other. Thats them keeping true to their bonded relationship. 

 

does that make sense? I hope so cause i wanna leave it behind now.

[dicetosser1]

Des  thoughts on yates claim and my being cleared? you never bought that up in your reads post.

[DPR]

SUPGATE - Salami soft serves an invitation to make hay. Darthe and Womby bite, but at different ends and the ball starts rolling. HWSIDI moment? 

 

Darthe is so weary. Like, depressing weary. Why so serious?

 

D1 Yates decides to make a "Just Say No To Drugs" speech and claim Seer to clear Dice. That's like, really really town. Really.

 

Pushers gonna push.

[hazelkrs1]

Des thoughts on yates claim and my being cleared? you never bought that up in your reads post.

So this isn't standard on DM at all, but this is a fairly common strategy on a lot of other sites, called seer cover. In theory it allows the seer to remain hidden while also revealing his inno viewings should he (or she) die.

 

And that's exactly what I took Yates claim as. Seer cover, nothing more, nothing less. If he actually dies and flips seer, then yes Dice, you'd be cleared. But I don't at all think Yates is the real seer, that decided to claim even tho no one else had yet provided any seer cover besides him.

 

So it seems to me you bringing this up now is a bit sketchy. You didn't talk about it immediately like you genuinely thought you were cleared, you only brought it up when I named you as a potential suspect. I believe you're trying to "derp clear" yourself.

[hazelkrs1]

SUPGATE - Salami soft serves an invitation to make hay. Darthe and Womby bite, but at different ends and the ball starts rolling. HWSIDI moment?

 

Darthe is so weary. Like, depressing weary. Why so serious?

 

D1 Yates decides to make a "Just Say No To Drugs" speech and claim Seer to clear Dice. That's like, really really town. Really.

 

Pushers gonna push.

What does bolded mean DPR? I actually understand very little of that entire paragraph, not sure what you're referring to

 

And do you really think Yates is the seer? Or do you think him providing seer cover makes him likely to be town?

[Tommyrod]

Vote Count D1.6:

Nyn (3): Wombat [#399], Arsis [#416], Sili [#417]
Sili (3): AJ [#67], Kivam [#362], Thane [#453]
Deslami (1): Darthe [#18]
Cass (1): Dicefrogger [#287]
Arsis (1): Deslami [#456]

Unvote (1): Verbarm [#243]

Not Voting (10): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Krak, Leelou, Nyn, Stelio, Rags, Tress, Yates

At the gallows: Nyn

[hazelkrs1]

@ despo

 

re OP the first line was meant as an observation not a whinge but i guess you could take it either way. not sure it really matters tbh. I never understand people saying this person is scummy cause of how they said they were here. its their first post. unless they do a Rand or unless you know each other well like verb/leelou i dunno what it tells anyone.

 

 

the three amigos thing. i was going to not comment on this. but seeing as people keep bringing it up i will once only.

I knew what he was saying. I knew why he was saying it. AJ totally got sold out by not playing along. and yates thing to me in marlfox gave me a read on him.

 

Could any of us abuse this? yes we could. but we choose not to.

 

Mafia doesn't HAVE to be about abusing every little thing you can.

 

look at turin and ithi. he buddys her no matter what but you can read him on it but what they NEVER do is go at each other. i cant think of a game where they even cased each other. Thats them keeping true to their bonded relationship.

 

does that make sense? I hope so cause i wanna leave it behind now.

Turin and Ithi aren't a great example tho because they kind of let their bond get in the way in mafia games, to the detriment of others ability to read them independently.

 

I think that there is nothing wrong with using an in joke or running reference to try and get someone to misclear you. There's nothing underhanded about that kind of move, it's just being clever.

 

Anyways, don't you think Yates trying to nix that NOW and not BEFORE the game began is slightly suspect? Like he wanted to keep from having to respond to you or AJ about that so as not to give himself away or break some imaginary sacred bond?

[DPR]

 

SUPGATE - Salami soft serves an invitation to make hay. Darthe and Womby bite, but at different ends and the ball starts rolling. HWSIDI moment?

 

Darthe is so weary. Like, depressing weary. Why so serious?

 

D1 Yates decides to make a "Just Say No To Drugs" speech and claim Seer to clear Dice. That's like, really really town. Really.

 

Pushers gonna push.

What does bolded mean DPR? I actually understand very little of that entire paragraph, not sure what you're referring to

 

And do you really think Yates is the seer? Or do you think him providing seer cover makes him likely to be town?

 

 

I think your "Seer Seer Cover" play is interesting.

 

I'm just wondering why you feel the need to tell us how Yates is playing.

 

He's a big boy and can speak for himself.

[Kivam]

"Tone reading"? As in people are playing/acting differently as town or scum? Wow, had no idea I was so missed.

[Kivam]

Pushers gonna push indeed. But what do the pushees do? You seeing some of the things I have, wes?

[Nynaeve]

lol

[Kivam]

Pop quiz, hotshots. What's the goal of Day 1? Want to see how far you've fallen