[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[csarmi]

@Salamipot - Get it together. Seeing the disconnect between you two an thread is weird.

 

Also, Csarmi, what makes you think Dice as the SK would shoot Yates N1 if he had 'cleared' him? Even if Yates was the Seer and Dice was the Godfather'd SK then Yates had just done him a huge solid by clearing him early.

That's a weird question to ask me considering that I'm leaning town on Dice. Ask Despo. He's not me.

 

We are two players with two very different way of looking for things. How would YOU play that AJ? I think we got it right, we discuss most of the stuff here, some gambits, explanations and leans to pool views on QT. Mostly cause we don't like to post stuff twice. I suppose.

[Cass]

Gah. Home internet just died. Troubleshooting but back on phone :(

[Nynaeve]

I'm finally back home. Kinda wiped out. Still feeling good about my vote.

 

I'm gonna try and go through Kivam's posts later for a look see. I don't think I'm gonna be able to do a sum up because of his huge recaps posts and cause I'm tired but I'll see if there's anything that catches my eye.

[Darthe]

Okay so I am doing EoD analysis with a focus on Nyn (because I suspect her) but I am still acknowledging posts from any living player, dead mafia and Wombat.  I'm spoilering it and will probably have each WoT broken up into 5-10 page increments because of length since I am not editing anything.  This and the next one are up to page 74 from somewhere in the 60's.  

 

 

 

 

 

I don't feel comfortable moving her from my null pile yet. But if she keeps slanking into D2 as well, it's going to affect my read.

Samesies. This is my summary of her play so far:

From her first two posts I guess we can assume her vagina is in tip top shape?
She foregoes an actual catch up post and decides to agree with Des's list of reads.
She gives Sili a little chastising for his "my Day 1 vote doesn't matter" thing.
Some more agreeing with Des and giving Csarmi an "attaboy."
Jokey McJokerson with Wombat and Thane.
Then one more post from noon on Tuesday talking about Salami's D1 vote thing again.

Nothing of substance there. I'm used to seeing her with more teeth, I guess is the best way to describe it.

 

Typically from what I've seen of her in previous games... if she's flabbergasted with the game and has no idea which way to turn and consequently a low volume of posts because of it... you can spot her frustration from a mile away. Here she's had very little content and borderline buddying with Des/Salami. But I'm not getting the confused feel from her. And what she did choose to comment on seems less important than other things that were going on. So, I want to see more, basically. A hell of a lot more.

 

This interaction actually looks fine to me.  I think I could argue that it could be W/W but that is somewhat tenuous.  Still I am noting it because I don't know what to expect down the road.

 

 

*Caught up to page 65, Post #1290**

 

RECAP OF THOUGHTS / CURRENT LEAN ON KIV (as potential SCUM).

 

Basically after a review, I can't help but feel that Kiv really could be scum. Like DPR, his posts in general are well placed in the context of the game, but they also have a great mix of what I'm interpreting as truth and then a twist of scum. Kiv has been doing a great job of 'buddying' me in early threads and providing distraction (especially from the heat on Yates and DPR) as well as adding in general fluff along the way. I still like his recap posts and am definitely learning useful things through them , but... they’re not really ADVANCING the game, in a sense. And it makes me wonder if this is then mostly for distraction? (Don't stop them though, Kiv, they're pretty handy for catch-ups).

 

But I've been considering that posting these recap posts would make a handy tactic from a scum view too, since it has the advantage of winning emotional thanks points from Town struggling to keep up with the flow (worked on me) and it has the advantage of being able to carefully push a bias, all with that emotional thanks on board. This strikes me as important.  

 

Also, for some reason (similar to DPR) - although I feel I've been fairly active and contributing some thoughtful stuff (perhaps this is just because my brain has been going a million miles an hour on no sleep for the last however many days?),  there’s very little mentioned in Kiv's recaps about my contributions. He comments about me showing up and disappearing, and comments on things other players have said about me (and what he says in relation to these things IS true), but, after the initial buddying tone, REAL thoughts on me and what I've been putting down are missing although they're there for other players. Seems like basic misdirection.

 

Why is this commentary missing? Is it because I’m close to being on the money, and therefore safer to avoid?

 

I'm not asking this just because I’m personally curious -I am curious, but it's more than that, it’s mostly because I’m a noob and therefore naturally a ‘wild card’ to the game. In my mind, it would make sense that an experienced player, whose game play relies a lot on recapping and offering opinions on things would have had more to say about the way a newbie played and where they had them in their reads – at least as often as they did for other members of the game, but quite possibly more.

 

Example of most recent recap, including questions to me at the top/in the buddying stage, and then (where evaluation of my input is concerned) nothing of value thereafter, is here.

 

On top of this, like DPR, Kiv seems to be avoiding interacting with people that are calling his allegiance into question. Example of post from AJ here. 

 

It smells like scum 

 

@KIV / EVERYONE -  Thoughts?/Rebuttals?

 

 

Some of the random things that made me suspicious. (Thoughts and questions to be answered included). Kiv, please weigh in? I think your answers to some of these are also important to the Town... 

 

 

 

FYI, there are a few of us basically soaking up all the oxygen right now, and I am getting very, very leery of our coasters

Coming directly after a post where you make light of random nothings and potentially go for an emotional appeal to Town by posting a pic of tissues (link)… This looked odd and has a huge possibility of Wolf to me. Because, while on the surface it is valid (I agree people, POST!), PRACTICALLY speaking, I feel like it was ultimately an attempt to change the subject. I agree with the stuff you said to Des at the end of 1101 (same link as above), but you would have said that playing either way, and that is very consistent with what I've seen of your play so far so it doesn't really worry me. The tissues were not. They sparked my curiosity. And then a convenient change of subject? It's too early for me to tackle you but ... I think I'm pinging you now too...

 

 

 

This is going to sound absurd but I need to reread my recaps before giving a solid answer.  My gut (which isn't so much my gut as my memory of who was defended/defending/shifted/shifting) says Sili, but it could also be Darthe or Arsis (Praya now, but since he hasn't bothered playing, it's all Arsis [in fact, if it's a close call after re-read, I may be amenable to a policy-lynch of Praya given: (a) suspicions generated by Arsis; (b) the half-remembered connections; and © the odds that if he's a townie, we wouldn't be losing anything valuable anyway]).  Other info targets would be Yates and Des, but they are lower on my list, Yates because he's probably been dealt with by too many players to provide much of a focus and Des because of the same thought process in the opposite direction; he's so all over the place that there are likely links/breadcrumbs to half the game in his posts.

Why is lynching inactive people (Praya) a better idea than going with your gut against Sili?

 

 

 

Crap - the problem with responding from memory and forgetting the player list.  Thane.  Thane probably slots in very high on the "info lynch" scale given the focus on him earlier and the responses to it.  Might even be the number 1 info play.  Really have to review those recaps once I get home.

The post seemed meh. Could be that I'm wondering if you and DPR are actually the number 1 play..? Don't answer that, I know it could. How did you go with your recaps - any further thoughts here?

 

Lot of good questions @Kiv here from Cass.    

 

Yey! for my posts almost catching up with my brain! Just a post to do with my current reads, and then I'll get back to ISOs and questioning/responding to specific posts (Yates, don't cry, I'm making eyes at you  )

 

 

OK.

 

 

Current Reads

 

Mostly Green

Des/Csarmi

Krak

AJ

 

Mostly Red

DPR

Kiv

Yates

 

Orange 

Wombat

Sili

 

 

Wanting/Waiting to hear more from:

Nyn

Praya

Dice

Darthe

Hallia

Leelou

Stelio

Thane

Tress

Verb

Yates

 

- - - - - - 

 

 

Have I missed anyone?

 

I'd like to hear some solid defense from/for the people I have in red and orange. Without it I'm leaning towards a vote anywhere in there.

 

If I have you in Green or Null, where exactly are you at? What else have you got for Town?

She put Kiv and Yates in her Red and said she wanted to hear more from Yates here.  Krak was in her green.  Paranoid Darthe says that Cass making it to F3 would make things harder for the town but my logical (and better) half says she is just good.  I think that the time Kivam said something about her beating us all in a few games sits with me wrong.  

 

 

If we're lucky, Nyn is gone by then and we can have a tête-à-tête.

I wore my dancing shoes!

Who are the three most interesting slots to you not named DPR?


 

@ DPR - Even if you have no regard for how Des plays, it's not fair on the rest of Town to refuse to answer what he asks because you don't consider him to be an 'authority'. It's not about not getting into a flame war. For me it's about you providing us with more to read. You refusing to do that is Wolfy, IMO.

Ehh hemmm....
 

Cass - you're here. I'm here. Let's have a real time conversation? If you are thinking about voting me, and you are claiming it's because of the Seer Cover, and you are claiming to have read everyone's explanations, then I'd like to know if there's something else that's bothering you because THAT shouldn't be it.

Cheers.

 

@EVERYONE
This ^, coupled with the fact that the idea of Kiv and DPR heading up a team of scum would probably be fantastic (gameplay wise obviously, not for Town), truly has me worried... I know second guessing the mod's devious ways is technically null, but it's (the mod's decision) also part of the human component of the game (as far as I can deduct, + when I asked, nobody told me otherwise), and therefore, I can't help but consider it in my train of thought 

Don't go there. This undercuts the credibility of your post a bit. There's like a 99.99% chance that Tommy just put all the names on a list and copy/pasted into random.org. That's how roles are typically "rolled."

So it's fine if you think they are scummy. Just don't think they are scummy because of mod shenanigans.

 

 

Cause I'm so frustrated with this work I'm doing I might wanna do some chatting.

Sorry - I have to hop in the shower and get to work.  We can chat in like an hour?
 
I'm just super bummed that Cass is calling me scum but refusing to talk to me.  Makes me a sad panda.

 

???

...

???

*Caught up to page 65, Post #1290**

???

...

???

 

I also find it difficult to believe that Yates would interact this much with a new scumbuddy but odd that he never actually does anything in his interactions.  Am I WIFOMing this whole thing?  Yes, yes I am.  Just to clarify though, I think that with the paranoid "I can think of scummy motivation for this" side of me included she is still at like 88% town here.  That's a lot of interaction and pressure to put on someone green as grass unless you expect them to carry you through the game and Yates/Kivam/Krak wouldn't have known that they would all be dead so quickly.

 

** Read up to end of page 54 / Quote #1080**

 

 

@DES - I am definitely hooked and I did have trouble falling asleep. My daughter woke up at 530am and I just typed the word 'trouble' as trubble. Ruh-roh.   I've done a quick read through whilst the daughter is having breakfast and (currently by the end of the post) doing whatever I can keep her distracted doing and have made some notes on what you've said. They're not pretty but hopefully you get my drift.
 

Post 1021

I had a slightly negative vibe. I can't even remember what it was now, but the note I wrote was, word for word "?Trying too hard".

 

Post 1023

I'm split on this. I have you colour coded both red and green. I liked that you splits posts to manageable chunks - that was kind. But. Tone in specific response to my question rubs me the wrong way… If you're playing a smart Wolf game here, the following concerns me (numbered according to your system and my thoughts on each numbered point). 1. This could be you taking opportunity of my spills to align me further with Kiv … Risky (for me) if you're both playing wolf. 2. This could be defense of Yates. I STILL DON’T LIKE YATES' SEER CLAIM - EXPLANATION TOO THIN. 3. Along the lines of Kivam's post 1027, except that I am perhaps getting slightly concerned that you're tunneling here. Or wolfing, now. I'd like you to clear up which one.  If you're Town, I feel you're sitting on the fence on that question, based on how you think Yates would play, which doesn't work for me. As KIV pointed out earlier, doing this is dangerous. I guess what I really want from you now is a WHY are you feeling Yates is Town, with other reasons? Because I'm considering that the only reason he did what he did was because he was scum. For me, I see more sense in that than him doing it as Town, and so far, nobody has been able to clear this up for me to my satisfaction. Not Yates with the comments he made, not even you. I'm not saying defending him is wrong, but... if it's plausible that he would do it as scum, then it's plausible. I'm either tunneling and wrong, or I'm onto something. I'd like to see where this goes. So yeah, now I'm concerned - you wolfing? Don't get defensive, just have a look at where you think Yates lies and why, and then let me know with specific reasons, if you can find any, other than 'I don't think he's scum'. I'm stuck on this because so far, the logic everyone who's defending Yates is feeding me just doesn't seem to add up. Can you take another look and get back to me on this?
 

I'm not to worried about Thane's tone myself, but I'm keeping him on my radar. Thanks for the input, whatever it's worth 

 

POST 1028

TBH I just skipped post 1028. Kid woke up 15 mins and I'm getting away with this quick reply, sort of, while I brush her off during breakfast. Mother of the year right here. I will try and come back and read it, but I'm skipping now because I still want DPR to answer. I think you've made a lot of points for him to answer to and if I were you I would probably just stop pushing for a while - to give him a bit of time and something specific to focus on and see what he replies. This could be why it feels like you're tunneling on this to some, and posting more on the subject in several different posts... I actually think it might make it easier for him to wriggle away if he's not Town. Which, again could have potential implications against you if he turns out to be Wolf. *Muses* I'd sit on DPR for a while, see what he has to say, and then move in with any more defense/new material. Sound fair?

 

POST 1049

RE Defense against Darthe suggesting I seemed overcoached - I appreciate the defense, but, TBH I actually didn't mind the angle Darthe was pushing against me at that point - I would have been questioning me too. Because I'm an unknown. But I think you'll find he was happy with my response, and I thought this was resolved   ... Darthe, I don't have time to link, if you feel like or feel like I'm misrepresenting your read please jump on in.
RE The comment about some of us making a bigger deal about seer cover than anyone else in the game and the potential for that to be scummy - Fair. But as above, it's plausible that Yate's claim was scummy. It jumped out at me, and hasn't yet been cleared in my mind. Personally, I'm happy to sit on this for a while and see how that plays out. I think I've said that several times. But, if we're going to continue it, then as above on questions relating to your post 1023. I'm not sure if you're wolfing. Help me out.

 

@KIV - I haven't forgotten you, but you're potentially too big for me to tackle right now. 

 

@CSARMI – Post 1051 – yes to the possibility of DPR and Kivam being scum with each running interference. Thrilling/scary thought. Not sure where I stand yet, need  to go back and check.

@ EVERYONE – as a side note to this ^, how are players generally ‘randed’ by the mods? Because if they get to choose… Just a thought, but having this combination (DPR and Kiv as scum) would be something I would like to run if I was playing mastermind…  
@AJ – Hi :) your post 1069 and the comment that I’m susceptible for buddying, see above *g* Do you have any favourites for scum at this point (and why – with whatever it is you’re using for proof?). I’m not sure where I stand on you. Also, for whatever it’s worth on Dice and his content being low – I agree, although I’m leaning towards not making an issue of it yet because for all my recent activity I’m finding the timezone thing pretty hard so far (everything picks up somewhere around our midnight), and he’s an hour ahead of me. I’m not pushing it because as long as I’ve known him, he religiously goes to bed at 10pm.

 

@DICE -  get active. Please? I'm interested to see where you lie *g*. And also I don't know whether I want to love you forever or lynch you straight out for getting me involved in this game.

 

 

@EVERYONE - I'm thinking the best approach for me from here is to go back and re-read, take notes, and be ready for action after the N1 Lynch and Kill. If I even manage to catch up with reads, I probably won't post much more from here unless you specifically ask me something, or something jumps out enough to make me want to vote. In case I'm the one who dies, my top pics for Scum at this point are:

 

A Yates and Sili combo.

 

Maybe with Wombat and Des.

 

But I'm not adverse to the idea of Kiv and DPR, and it may actually make a LOT of sense (I just haven't had time to re-read them enough yet). They're my big ones to catch up on, and I can in no way rule them out just now/potentially ever   

I've given my reasons for the Yates and Sili combo above, Wombat is a little in the same boat. There was potentially something about posts his posts 837, 904 and 909. #929 I had as 'Valid, but the motive could be distancing because Yates and Sili are being locked/targeted'.

 

This is all just supposition and 'watching' for me at this point, which is why I haven't voted. And, (?unfortunately) I'll have to admit here that I'm including Des mostly because DPR did too. This isn't smart when I haven't finished rereading DPR (especially in the context of Kiv) but there you go. My current strongest scum reads are out there now.

 

See y'all 'soon'.

Make that 84%.  This post has good points but she linked people on D1 and there are a few things I have put in large bold that sit wrong.  I went through to bold the parts where she talks about a DPR/Kivam scum team for a reason.  Even with a little preface on how this game works and who's popular on DM etc how would she really know about their popularity in the context she is using it in?  We know they were different alignments in hindsight but this whole thing is weird.  

 

Now that most of my digging into Cass thus far is wrapped up I want to pull a few things together.

 

@Cass, can you explain your tying these players together D1?

What do you think of Des now that five of the six you mentioned have flipped?  

Krak was inactive near the time of your reads list and you had him in the green.  Yates and Kivam were active and you had them in the red.  All three were wolves and Krak was essentially a sleeper.  How do you explain how well your reads list has matched up with the mafia teams' play this game?

 

I also found it kind of interesting that in Kivam's post about Sili being an info lynch, the vast majority of it talked about if Sili flipped scum. Basically his only observations if Sili flipped town was that he'd feel better about AJ

 

However I feel a town flip on Sili would make DPR look REALLY bad imo for the way he soft pushed Sili, misrepped him, then later forgot the context in which he originally fos'd him, then continuously evaded direct questions from him

 

Again, yall prob just think this is crazy ol Despot jumping at shadows, but I find Kivam leaving out this piece of evidence to be supportive of those two being scum together

I don't think the bold could ever come from a scum!Des about his teammate.  

 

 

Leelou, what don't you like about Darthe?  He seems pretty Darthe to me but I'm wavering.

I'm so confused with you this game.  Your opinions seem everywhere and you're taking crowd census a lot.  

 

Leelou usually is sus of me in early game and generally decides on me for sure by mid game.  

 

Looking back on it    Womby makes a lot of sense

 

 

 

[Darthe]

Casper Slide Pt. 2

 

 

 

don't like the wifom. day 4, you're still alive and i'm still alive i'll be more inclined to vote you now.

 

Only way I'm alive D4 is if Hally is scum.

 

Again womby, putting his peek in like this.

 

 

 DESlami says Krak is "jumping at straws" - agreed, though I'd say more "grasping" than "jumping" (why would one jump at a straw?).

 

lmfao!

 

I'm quoting almost anything I see involving Nyn with mafia.  There isn't much interaction between them at all and what does exist so far is insubstantial.  

 

Wombat did post a good list, but i'd make some changes to it, like this: 

 

Likely Town

Thane Vakarian

WWWwombat

Andrej

Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)

Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra

Yates

Cass (Mentored by manbat)

Leelou

Despot / csarmi Hydra

 

Hesitating

DreadPirateRoberts

Kivam

Stelio Kontos

dicetosser1

TheRagnarok

Darthe

 

Likely Wolf

Krakalakachkn
Sili Quirrels

Arsis Pralaya

Hallia

Null
Tress

 

This is about as good a list as i'm able to do right now. Still at work, and it's quite busy. Am reading thread though.

One scummer in each category.  @Thane I think I still hate this post.

 

 

 

 

Wombat did post a good list, but i'd make some changes to it, like this: 

 

*headdesk*

 

Considering Wombat himself is admitting he wasn't making a genuine reads list, bleurgh.

 

well, i changed it to what i think it should look like, so i definately wasn't agreeing with him 

 

And this one I may hate more.  Thane backtracked like a mofo here.  

 

 

W/e. No one wants to vote obvscum DPR, and Kivam is next best choice now. Has connections to scum!DPR, and has had a LOT of "padding" type posts lately where he rants a bunch about meta stuff, not stuff relevant to THIS GAME. Also think his "if I flip scum don't look into what I said" was a guilty conscience slip.

 

##[unvote]

 

[v]##Kivam[/v]

I also don't think Des makes this post with his teammate.  

 

 

Yates!

 

 

Cass - you're here. I'm here. Let's have a real time conversation? If you are thinking about voting me, and you are claiming it's because of the Seer Cover, and you are claiming to have read everyone's explanations, then I'd like to know if there's something else that's bothering you because THAT shouldn't be it.

Cheers.

*So, you're saying you're not actually the Seer??? Well, phew! Now if I vote you out, even if you end up being Town, knowing that is kinda a relief  

 

 

Also. Yey! I found you! (It was harder than it should be - I STILL can't actually figure out ISOs).

 

Ok, let's do this - and even if I've missed you and you're already off at work, I look forward to your reply. I'm going to try to get to bed in the next hour tonight - Don't hate me, it will be the first time before 3 or 4 am since I signed up for this thread    .

 

First - Dude, I haven't been actively ignoring you on purpose or as a ploy. I've been working my little butt off getting all of those other posts up so that what I'd offered to the Town had actually caught up with my brain.This catchup thing is killing me, I have no idea how anybody does it thoroughly and still manages to talk in real time too. My 'up to' notes at the top of my posts meant that I had scanned through and made mental notes about what to check out or comment on next. That's all, no need to get your knickers in a knot, posting sad pandas and crying gifs, even though they were slightly entertaining   . 

 

In answer to the questions in your post.

 

i) I am not claiming to have read everyone's explanations. I'm not that stupid, and I'm gonna be the first one to put my hand up and say I'm definitely missing stuff in this thread! That's why I keep asking for everyone's input, repeatedly.

 

ii) I agree that my concern over you claiming Seer/Providing Seer Cover so early in the game is not enough to confirm that you are scum. I never said it was. I said it concerned me a little, because it didn't make sense to me. I thought I'd explained clearly why I thought so along the line, but maybe I didn't. Either way, here's a direct copy of the notes page I was using at the time. That should clear up any confusion. NB to anyone planning on reading that - My 'Scummiest Reads' have changed since there. See post here for current thoughts.

 

 

I asked two questions:

 

a) Is it usual for Yates to provide such OPEN Seer 'cover'?

b) How plausible is it (especially for those who have caught up and may have examples either way) that Yates may have been a Wolf posting ‘cover’ in the hopes of initiating other ‘peaks’/trying to find the Seer?

 

 

Csarmi answered the questions. Short and to the point. Yes and plausible.

 

Sili on the other hand, explained to me his take on Seer theory/made excuses for Yate’s claim. On two separate, separated posts. He seemed to be thinking about it too much. The theory on seer cover seemed fine. His excuses for Yates providing seer cover at a time I found awkward and wolfish were not.

Summary of his (Sili's) defence when questioned: (#823/834): Initiating seer cover is effective enough to gain Town cred (by covering the Seer, encouraging further ‘seer’ posts and making it ‘safer’ for the real Seer to post) but not effective enough at doing exactly that to “bear fruit” for the Wolves?

 

Followed by (post #840)

 

“A lot of players here have played in at least one game with a seer, so most should know better”, almost immediately contradicted by “If I were wolfpack I’d gamble that the real seer would be confused since he isn’t familiar with the strategy.”

 

Not cricket. Supposition

 

DPR jumps in and picks up what I’m putting down. 924, 927, 933 and 939  Points out stuff I didn’t read that further fuel my suspicions of Sili/Yates.

 

Yates appears, posts concisely, quoting my questions, but then mis-answers, centers everything on explaining the basics of Seer theory instead of responding to my questions on his motives.

 

Wwwwwombat #837 – same thing. BUT THEN BACKTRACKS LAST LINE, POST # 904???? 909 keeps goin… 929 Valid, but ? motive ? distancing because Yates and Sili getting heat?

DPR says DES did too.

 

?Scum team Sili, Yates, Wombat, Des.

 

 

 

What bothers me is not just that you hard-claimed Seer early. What bothers me is I find the idea of Town hard-claiming Seer at the point you did possibly less likely than the idea of Scum hard-claiming Seer at the point you did. You follow?

In addition to this:
 

- When questioned about why you did something that I thought may make you more likely to be scum, you didn't give me an explanation for your motives. You just rehashed some general theory that I thought it was obvious I already knew. Another possible point in the direction of Team Scum, under the banner of quoting half-truths and using them for misdirection.

 

In addition to:

- The fact that Sili looked/s rather scummy to me, and he seemed to be defending you, using tactics that were much the same.

 

In addition to:

- The fact that DPR mentioned a heap of stuff that made a lot of sense to me at the time, before I suspected gave a lot of value to the thought he could be wolf.

 

 

 

*Mindsplodes* 

[v] ##Sili [/v]

 

 

 

Yates - Thank you for posting this request to chat. Rereading to answer your questions has raised possibilities I had not considered   . Sili now ranks a good bit higher on my red scale than you. Enough so that I'm actually casting a vote, when I didn't think I would.

 

I would still appreciate answers to my concerns in case of future votes, though, because obviously you could still be part of scum team, working with Sili, and this doesn't make you clear of my suspicions relating directly to you. 

 

 

*Collapses*

Bare with me here.  We know Cass is at least half wrong but that's not the point I'm making.  

 

 

 

What if, and bear with me here, Cass wrote Cass' posts?

 

 

*shock horror*

You mean I'm Town???

 

Though this is a point she shouldn't have made.

 

 

Yates!

Cass!

*So, you're saying you're not actually the Seer???

Droll. 
 

First - Dude, I haven't been actively ignoring you on purpose or as a ploy.

Good. It felt that way. I think you can see why.

So let's get at the meat of this...

First, wrt Sili:

Sili on the other hand, explained to me his take on Seer theory/made excuses for Yate’s claim. On two separate, separated posts. He seemed to be thinking about it too much.

The context you were/are missing here was in the link I provided to you. Did you click on that link and just look at the name of the players at least? [i obviously don't expect you to read the game - lol] Sili and I were both in that game [along with 8 others involved in this game] that I linked. We were also both playing on that site for the first time so I think certain things "stuck" with us. With that as context, I don't think it's fair to accuse him of "making excuses" in this instance since I think he'd make this same post as either alignment and regardless of his role. It looked genuinely like Sili providing you with information that you didn't have.

His back and forth in the thread, I think, is more indicative of stream of consciousness play. For Sili this is pretty null. I've never seen him as scum yet [at least not for a full game] but none of this is outside of his Town meta.

Back to me. What did you mean here?

Yates appears, posts concisely, quoting my questions, but then mis-answers, centers everything on explaining the basics of Seer theory instead of responding to my questions on his motives.

Also, I'd take a Sili, Yates, Wombat, Des scum team ANY day! What's funny here is you named 3 people that were in that game and 1 that is at least familiar with the strategy. In other words, you just named the scum team as the people that would have understood the play.
 

What bothers me is not just that you hard-claimed Seer early. What bothers me is I find the idea of Town hard-claiming Seer at the point you did possibly less likely than the idea of Scum hard-claiming Seer at the point you did. You follow?

I hear what you are saying. I do. But all I can tell you is that you are wrong. And I think we'll get into the why's and the how's starting here:
 

When questioned about why you did something that I thought may make you more likely to be scum, you didn't give me an explanation for your motives. You just rehashed some general theory that I thought it was obvious I already knew.

See, it didn't look obvious to me that you already knew the theory. I don't think it was obvious to a LOT of people which is 30% of why it kept coming up [the other 70% being DPR].

It would kind of defeat the purpose of my play if I showed you my hand. So telling you IN GENERAL how that play could work is probably the best you are going to get out of me. At least for now. I mean, I could have been telling the truth knowing no one would believe me and would just assume it was cover, right? Or I could have been just laying cover. I'm not going to tell you which one it was.

What I *CAN* tell you is that I *DIDN'T* do that to try to fish for a role. And the only method I have for proving that is to point back to the mafia theory discussion on why that wouldn't be the case.
 

In addition to:
- The fact that Sili looked/s rather scummy to me, and he seemed to be defending you, using tactics that were much the same.

What you are doing here is something called "confirmation bias." When you are ASSUMING Sili is scum and that his interaction with me somehow paints me in a scummy light, irrespective of my own actions, you are making a logical error that collapses in the event Sili flips Town.

Even still, let's say Sili *IS* scum. Have you ever heard of a term called "buddying?" or "white knighting?" It's a super common tactic for scum to make friend's with a Townie and to fake defend them. It's also called "pocketing" by some people. The reason scum do it is exactly for the connections you are assuming above. It's to make a Townie look scummy if they themselves get lynched and flip scum.
 

The fact that DPR mentioned a heap of stuff that made a lot of sense to me at the time, before I suspected gave a lot of value to the thought he could be wolf.

I'll let you come to your own conclusion on that. He's pretty wily.

 

Here we go!  Much like I think there is such thing as mafia not wanting to interact with teammates too much I also hold the opinion that when mafia overdoes interaction with someone it makes that person more likely to be town.  I don't think, in this particular scenario, that Yates would ever have interacted with a new teammate this much on D1.  Is that circumstantial?  Yes.  Are there flaws that allow Cass to be mafia?  Yes, especially if her amazing powers of deduction dropped off when the scum team died, but this entire series of interactions links her to that team FAR too much to be likely given everything that we know.  

 

Cass looks clear to me.  Not as clear as Des from these interactions but certainly more so than most would be.

 

 

 

 

[Cass]

TBH I think I'm stuck on the question of voting inactives over people who I think might be sus. 

 

I struggled tonight with my re-read, however, looking at AJs stuff:

 

I still don't like:

- his defensive/cranky tone after/when I asked why he thought Verb, Wom and DPR were all voting for him;

- the way he random voted Sili straight up early D1 on nothing but a 'hunch' and something about the joke vote against Thane (which Csarmi did too btw, but nothing was said about that btw)

 

(might help if I had some meta to go on here - is AJ always cranky when he's suspicious?)

 

---BUT---

 

There is something in the way that Kiv interacts with him here that makes me think he may have been being played with by scum the same way I was. AJ is still the same defensive, cranky tone in this interaction, but there's something about Kiv's post that reminds me of the way he was in interactions with me (slightly long, patronising/dismissive, logic-twisted conversation posts) and - and this is the kicker for me, (silly idea or not): it included the statement "You're better than that, aren't you?" Which is essentially what Kiv said to me on multiple occasions, including here, at the very EoD when he knew the game was up.

 

 

 

 

 

Screw it.  I'm at the gallows anyway, since Verb will put me in the lead if nothing else breaks, and I'm more inclined to lynch AJ than VerBarm anyway.

 

[v]##Andrej[/v]

 

FTR, would consider a CFD on Derf after those last pushes

 

 

 

You don't want to explain my response?

Just saw it, and just did.

 

And as for Wes on me, he said it very clearly: He doesn't even bother trying for me until D3 at the earliest, because my play D1 & D2 is too consistent for him to have any specific feel. 

 

You're better than needing all of this spelled out.

 

 

 

I don't know if that actually clears him (of course it doesn't) but my gut says it's strange that it's the same level of effort Kiv put into making me look bad, using the same ego-suck-crushing tone. And since I know I'm Town, maybe this suggests that AJ could be too. Maybe that's silly associative logic, I dunno. My head's too scrambled to deal with more post searching and stuff on mobile internet right now (nearly 3am).

 

I have a dr's appointment in the morning but will try to make it back for EoD and more real searching before that.

 

Just in case I'm not back or internet is still crappy, I'm voting [v]##Rags[/v], based on inactivity.

 

My picks on possible SK are still the same as before, for the same reasons.

[Songstress]

Whoa there cowboy.

 

##[unvote]

 

It was bad enough you peeled off of Tress. I agree her posts look townier the last couple of pages, bit I don't really think that offsets all the bad posts she had earlier.

 

If we're not lynching her then we're STILL not lynching Nyn, at least not today. Better to lynch Rags who is MUCH more of a question mark than Nyn.

 

[V]##Rags[/v]

 

I get it, I get it, you don't like me.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any event, I recall you doing the same damn thing in the Spaceballs game in your first incarnation, it was only when you replaced back in as mafia that you were willing to admit I might be town.  Is OK, you can be town again, Salami explained the things that worried me the most.

 

Apparently I needed more aspartame in my diet or something, I felt better last night than I have in nearly 2 months.  Will try it again this afternoon and see if the Coke Zero helps.

[csarmi]

Hard claim: we are NOT the even night vigilante.

[csarmi]

Vigilantes attention: plan your play carefully. Think about what your role (named townie and shooting power) is good for. Consider your play thoroughly.

 

Vanillagers attention: don't fake claim vig ever. Don't claim your role unless necessary.

[Songstress]

AJ I disagree with the vote thing.

 

Hallia and DPR voted Kiv and AJ respectively at exactly the same time: 1149 by AEST , tying them at 4 votes each.

 

 

I don't think AJ is mafia.

 

I'm not the most informed on Kivam, but between the two

 

##Vote: Kivam

 

 

 

Vote Count D2.19:

 

Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (2): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Cass (1): Wombat [#2631]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

Darthe (1): Wombat [#2816]

 

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

 

Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

##Unvote Wombat

 

##Vote AJ

 

Call for mod specification on votes Deslami (#2623) vs. Saladtosser (#2202) whom I believe to be the same voter.

 

 

 

I then voted Kiv at 11:53, which meant Kiv took the lead..

 

 

Vote Count D2.21:

 

Kivam (5): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728], Hallia [#2835], Cass [#2837]

AJ (4): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2823], DPR [#2836]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Dicetosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

Pral (2): Thane [#1931], Krak [#2826]

 

Not Voting (2): Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

 

Bold purple: Actually, that's not quite accurate.  Let me quote all the relevant posts...

 

Vote Count D2.20:

 

Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (3): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2823]

Pral (2): Thane [#1931], Krak [#2826]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

 

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

 

Not Voting (3): Hallia, Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

Kivam, Verbarm and AJ had 3 votes each at this point, and Kivam had taken the lead first, so he was still in the lead...

 

Then, with the SAME timestamp, so within a minute of one another, 11 minutes before deadline...

 

 

I don't think AJ is mafia.

 

I'm not the most informed on Kivam, but between the two

 

##Vote: Kivam

 

 

 

Vote Count D2.19:

 

Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (2): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Cass (1): Wombat [#2631]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

Darthe (1): Wombat [#2816]

 

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

 

Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

##Unvote Wombat

 

##Vote AJ

 

Call for mod specification on votes Deslami (#2623) vs. Saladtosser (#2202) whom I believe to be the same voter.

 

 

 

Lol Wom you and Kiv are screwing with my head so bad! *g*

 

I see both of you voted Sili last round...

 

 

[v]##Kiv[/v]

 

The next vote count, 7 minutes before deadline...

 

 

Vote Count D2.21:

 

Kivam (5): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728], Hallia [#2835], Cass [#2837]

AJ (4): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2823], DPR [#2836]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Dicetosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

Pral (2): Thane [#1931], Krak [#2826]

 

Not Voting (2): Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

Kivam never lost the lead, and with the plurality vote rules even if it had ended on a tie, he would have been the lynch unless AJ had pulled ahead of him at some point. 

 

The thing that has me concerned here is that with the bother of going back and quoting posts and checking timestamps on the other votes to defend herself against AJ's suggestion, she doesn't quote her own post and specifically gives the wrong time for her own vote.

 

This seems really damn fishy.

[csarmi]

Tress: Thane summary please. Your read progression on him. Why when how.

[Songstress]

Maybe it's just the tinfoily part of my brain speaking, but Darthe's analysis notwithstanding...

 

Does anyone else have the nagging feeling that we've witnessed a Kivam-style gambit being mentored by Kivam himself?  

[csarmi]

Wolf attention: you gonna die.

SK attention: stop shooting please. Move to another village. Thank you.

[csarmi]

Tress.

 

Why did Krak not place a meaningful vote?

 

/But Thane first.

[Thane Vakarian]

csarmi... if you don't mind me asking..... why the interest in me ?

[csarmi]

Screw it.  I'm at the gallows anyway, since Verb will put me in the lead if nothing else breaks, and I'm more inclined to lynch AJ than VerBarm anyway.

 

[v]##Andrej[/v]

 

FTR, would consider a CFD on Derf after those last pushes

  

[v]##AJ[/v]

  

Vote Count D2.17:Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (3): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2797]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, TressAt the gallows: Kivam

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

  

AJ, Deslarmi, Darthe - Why has everyone gone Kivam over Wom? Make it good.

  

[v]##Darthe![/v]

  

Vote Count D2.19:Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (2): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Cass (1): Wombat [#2631]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

Darthe (1): Wombat [#2816]

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, TressAt the gallows: Kivam

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

  

Vote Pral

 

 

Yolo!

  

[v]##AJ[/v]

  

Vote Count D2.20:Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]AJ (3): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2823]Pral (2): Thane [#1931], Krak [#2826]Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]Not Voting (3): Hallia, Rags, TressAt the gallows: KivamReminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

  

KRAK I'M GOING TO COUNT YOUR VOTE AS A VOTE ON KIVAM WRT ANALYSIS

  

I don't think AJ is mafia.

 

I'm not the most informed on Kivam, but between the two

 

##Vote: Kivam

  

 

Vote Count D2.19:Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (2): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Cass (1): Wombat [#2631]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

Darthe (1): Wombat [#2816]

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, TressAt the gallows: Kivam

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

##Unvote Wombat

 

##Vote AJ

 

Call for mod specification on votes Deslami (#2623) vs. Saladtosser (#2202) whom I believe to be the same voter.

  

Lol Wom you and Kiv are screwing with my head so bad! *g*

 

I see both of you voted Sili last round...

 

 

[v]##Kiv[/v]

  

Vote Count D2.21:Kivam (5): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728], Hallia [#2835], Cass [#2837]AJ (4): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2823], DPR [#2836]Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Dicetosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]Pral (2): Thane [#1931], Krak [#2826]Not Voting (2): Rags, TressAt the gallows: KivamReminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

  

Wombat becoming blue for EOD.......what the hell day is this?!?!

[csarmi]

csarmi... if you don't mind me asking..... why the interest in me ?

Still planning to steal your girls.

[csarmi]

Yup Kivam lynch not happening without Cass.

[Songstress]

Tress: Thane summary please. Your read progression on him. Why when how.

 

I haven't gone back to read all of Thane's posts, so this is off the cuff.

 

As I recall, when I posted my first read list I had him as green due to gut feeling - I was trying to minimize the nulls on my list and he seemed pretty typical Thane to me.  One of the things I noted IRT Nyn was how I'd given her a town lean early because of how she handled Thane, and primarily that was because it mirrored a lot of what I was thinking - that I normally find him pretty outrageously scummy, and I have to try to adjust for that knowing that's pretty much how he plays (based on past history).  There have been quite a few times over the course of the game I remember reading one of his posts and thinking "why would you even say that?", and then thinking "Oh, right, it's Thane."  

 

I've pretty much skimmed a lot due to feeling terrible, and didn't put a whole lot more thought into him, felt pretty neutral overall for most of the rest.  Hally's analysis of the way Yates and Krak defended him D1 made me take notice, and consider him near the bottom of the list.   And the way he responded to Hally was pretty typical Thane as well, which on most other people could be picked out as pinging, but for him could be reasonable.  That's why I started thinking if he really was being white knighted by Yates and Krak there, perhaps the remaining teammate tried to avoid the WK act, which made me think of Nyn.

 

So in short, I dunno.  Questionable, but I don't think he's as likely to be the last mafia as Nyn or Cass in my head right now... and my head kinda wants to go in circles.

[Thane Vakarian]

You may not steal. You MAY wish happy birthday to Amy (she turns 5 today)

[Songstress]

Tress.

 

Why did Krak not place a meaningful vote?

 

/But Thane first.

 

Errr... not a single clue.

 

Need to get ready for work, have to be early today for a team meeting.   The pilot project I was working on is done now, the boss is out of the office, and my schedule has some breaks in it, so I'll check back later and vote sometime after coffee has happened.

[Darthe]

It's time to get funky

 

 

 

 

Thane are you comfortable with the potential lynches right now?

i am, for now. Had Sili on before, and Pral is where my vote is for the moment. I'm going to be in here for another 2.5 hours, so i won't be around EOD i think. 

 

I thought this was odd D1 and I think it odd now.  No townie should ever be comfortable with lynches unless they are sure of the line-up and this doesn't remotely match his reads list that he gave based on Wombats.  

 

Can't remember anything else off the top of my head that I wanted to respond to that is still relevant - yesterday at work I was wanting to quote Wombat's previous reads list and ask why I was as high up as I was, but then I saw the Rags had already done it, and I wanted to see if there was anything further before I responded myself (which there was by the time I got there).

 

Have about 10 minutes before I need to run get ready for work, this afternoon is my inaugural training session and I need to do some prep work before my shift starts.

 

Reads list with a few random notes:

 

Fairly comfortable town reads:

 

DesLami - Firmly telling myself not to tinfoil right now.  Des is reading like Town!Des to me, and the tunnel on DPR is reminiscent of many other Town!Des tunnels. And since most of his points make a lot of sense (I did catch the sarcasm in DPR's "really really town" post, FWIW), I'm giving this one credit.  I disagree with some of the other reads, but overall I think we're seeing things pretty similarly.

 

Kivam - I'll admit I haven't read the catchup posts carefully or gone back to check context as recommended, but since the conclusions he's reached have made sense to me and many of them resonated with what I've been thinking, I'm putting him in my town pile for the moment.

 

Wombat - More gut feeling than anything.  May be subject to tinfoil later.

 

Nyn - I don't remember what the discussion was that gave me this impression, but it gave me a pretty strong "yeah, this looks like town!Nyn" vibe that's stuck with me.

 

 

Townish vibe:

 

Yates - I will always tinfoil on Yates, but unless we have a Yates/Des scum team I think I'm more comfortable calling him town. 

 

Rags - Gave him town points for mindmeld when he asked Wombat about why he was so high in the greens on his reads list yesterday.

 

Thane - no specifics, just warm fuzzies.

 

Null/mixed/no clue:

 

Dice

AJ

Leelou

VerBarm - These 4 I don't really remember much that stuck with me one way or another.  Will have to reread to develop a more concrete opinion.

 

 

Cass - Mixed so far.  I don't like DPR's suggestion that her posts are being written by someone else.  She's putting a lot of effort into this, and that I like.  I know I've missed some of what she's posted and will have to go back and re-read her later.

 

Stelio - Really no idea what to do with him yet.

 

Hallia - oh where oh where is my Hally?

 

Mildly uncomfortable:

 

Arsis/Pral

Krak

Darthe

 

No specifics for these guys, just a gut level discomfort that I can probably go back and make less nebulous this weekend.

 

Top scum leans:

 

SIli - More gut feeling than anything specific, although I remember reading several posts that made me say "whoa there" and I could probably go back and pick them out if needed.  Willing to lynch.

 

DPR - I hate the thought of lynching Wes D1 when he's been gone for a while, but I'm seriously uncomfortable with his play so far, specifically how he's been interacting with Des and Cass. 

I'm quoting this again.  I don't intend to analyze it because I think that a simple read-through does plenty but I don't believe in letting people 8 Mile their own posts, it's what I would do if I was scum and knew that town had ammo against me.  The only thing I'll point out here is that she also has each flipped scummer in a different category.  

 

Okay. So. 

 

I feel better about Tress now that she posted a bit. Brownie points. I only agree with part of her reads but overall her explanations seem good to me considering we're at D1. Just don't fall off the wagon. Tress. MAKE ME BELIEVE 

 

Des, your WoTs aren't being ignored and I don't think you're crazy. But you have to understand that every person has their own reads and his/her own way of interpreting events.  Just because someone doesn't see things the way you do doesn't mean you're being dismissed. Now....I'm not at a place where I'm comfortable considering a DPR lynch. I'm having a hard time with reading him (big shock there ) and I need more time to stalk observe him. I am very much intrigued lol   But I don't see why you choose to take it as a personal diss. *shrugs*

 

 

 

And **** me, 14 new replies as I'm typing this!? I'm surprised DM hasn't dropped down of exhaustion.  I'm back to hating you all again (including Des).

What about Tress made you feel better about her here Nyn?  Do you like Tress now?

 

I really don't see what's the big deal about DPR proposing the option that a newbie might be being coached. It's a valid possibility. And it's not an insult at all. It's a viable strategy. I remember that when I was scum with Red and Dawn people kept thinking Dawn was being coached because she seemed more consistent in tha game. She wasn't, actually. Red and I let her run free. Her thread presence prolly had more to do with her being scum than anything else lol.... but yeah..... I don't get why people are taking this out of proportions. It's a completely valid thing to say and I'm sure DPR didn't mean it maliciously. He's supposed to consider all the angles. 

This is a misrep.  DPR accused her of having posts written for her.

 

 

Leelou is town.

 

I really hate it when you drop these one liners. 

 

I've never seen you say that when Womby or I did this in previous games.

 

 

 

I really don't see what's the big deal about DPR proposing the option that a newbie might be being coached. It's a valid possibility. And it's not an insult at all. It's a viable strategy.

I would agree with you if he was accusing her of being coached. He didn't accuse her of simply being coached. He said her scum team was writing her posts for her. He literally called her a "puppet" at one point. I'm keenly aware of this because he accused ME of authoring her posts.

 

 

Same diff. Again, Dawn got accused of the same when she was on my scum team. They said she didn't sound like herself. Using big words and such. And some were wondering if someone was feeding her posts. It's not a slight, imo. It's thinking outside the box. I could see how it would annoy her, if it weren't true. But beyond that *Shrugs*

 

I'm not saying I agree with DPR. While I AM getting a more experienced feel from her posts, it's possible she just has a very good mentor. 

 

I don't know, this just seems like an overreaction to me.

 

This interaction with Yates looks like playing both sides of the field.  I couldn't find any reads list of yours in the 25-30 pages leading up to DL.  Thought that was odd.

 

 

Suggest you all do the same, if only to save the egg on your faces when - if she's as good as I think she is, and can be - she's routinely kicking all of your asses in future games.

 

Gee. Thanks.

 

Again Nyn is chummy with Kivam.  I don't credit all of that as W/W because they are friends and he has been gone for a long while, however I think that they looked really comfortable on thread together and went out of their way to respond to one another.  I'll keep quoting fake interactions as I find them.

 

 

Flattered, but Nyn - have you even entertained the idea that I am writing all my own posts? <- That's not snide, it's genuine. If you think at everything I've written from this angle, would it change your read of me/help convince you that I'm Town?

 

Just sayin.

 

I'm starting to hate the fact that people know I am a noob.

 

You're missing my point. I wasn't actually talking about you. I was saying that I think people are overreacting to a valid option and calling it rude as if DPR kicked a puppy or something. It's stupid.

 

So this has nothing to do with my read on you. You're still neatly in the null pile.

 

Not only is this argument getting beaten to death and was a detriment to having a successful EoD because it distracted from any real issues, but you didn't really respond to the main issues on thread at the time which were Sili/Laya, reacting to Wombat loling everywhere, Des going ape on DPR or Dice being difficult.  It's crap to think that a town Nyn wouldn't have wanted to weigh in on and help direct town through a lot of key issues and instead took all of her time explaining to a newbie what coaching was and chatting with scum about lolz.  I also doubt that 80ish pages into the game you'd have cass in your null pile, a pile that nobody else saw because you weren't giving out lists.  That looks like a throwaway.

 

Ok, so far, in the initial part of the game, my strongest scum read is Tress

 

Other than her initial random posts, her first few posts are agreeing with Des (a lot) and going after an easy target Sili. Both of them stood out because in her recaps these were the only two people she responded to, which felt very weird. Looks like she is hardcore white knighting Des, which makes me think she is scum.

 

Other than that, town read on Wombat, Csarmi, Nyn.

 

Sili is kind of weird, which surprisingly is a town tell for him. But will have to keep an eye on him. Thane does seem town but not as instinctive as he usually is. 

Most of the players I have not played with Cass, Kiva, DPR are kind of null so far.

Hey laya looking back on it what do you think of this post?  Can you explain the rationale?

 

 

 

 

[csarmi]

Can't remember anything else off the top of my head that I wanted to respond to that is still relevant - yesterday at work I was wanting to quote Wombat's previous reads list and ask why I was as high up as I was, but then I saw the Rags had already done it, and I wanted to see if there was anything further before I responded myself (which there was by the time I got there).

 

Have about 10 minutes before I need to run get ready for work, this afternoon is my inaugural training session and I need to do some prep work before my shift starts.

 

Reads list with a few random notes:

 

Fairly comfortable town reads:

 

DesLami - Firmly telling myself not to tinfoil right now.  Des is reading like Town!Des to me, and the tunnel on DPR is reminiscent of many other Town!Des tunnels. And since most of his points make a lot of sense (I did catch the sarcasm in DPR's "really really town" post, FWIW), I'm giving this one credit.  I disagree with some of the other reads, but overall I think we're seeing things pretty similarly.

 

Kivam - I'll admit I haven't read the catchup posts carefully or gone back to check context as recommended, but since the conclusions he's reached have made sense to me and many of them resonated with what I've been thinking, I'm putting him in my town pile for the moment.

 

Wombat - More gut feeling than anything.  May be subject to tinfoil later.

 

Nyn - I don't remember what the discussion was that gave me this impression, but it gave me a pretty strong "yeah, this looks like town!Nyn" vibe that's stuck with me.

 

 

Townish vibe:

 

Yates - I will always tinfoil on Yates, but unless we have a Yates/Des scum team I think I'm more comfortable calling him town. 

 

Rags - Gave him town points for mindmeld when he asked Wombat about why he was so high in the greens on his reads list yesterday.

 

Thane - no specifics, just warm fuzzies.

 

Null/mixed/no clue:

 

Dice

AJ

Leelou

VerBarm - These 4 I don't really remember much that stuck with me one way or another.  Will have to reread to develop a more concrete opinion.

 

 

Cass - Mixed so far.  I don't like DPR's suggestion that her posts are being written by someone else.  She's putting a lot of effort into this, and that I like.  I know I've missed some of what she's posted and will have to go back and re-read her later.

 

Stelio - Really no idea what to do with him yet.

 

Hallia - oh where oh where is my Hally?

 

Mildly uncomfortable:

 

Arsis/Pral

Krak

Darthe

 

No specifics for these guys, just a gut level discomfort that I can probably go back and make less nebulous this weekend.

 

Top scum leans:

 

SIli - More gut feeling than anything specific, although I remember reading several posts that made me say "whoa there" and I could probably go back and pick them out if needed.  Willing to lynch.

 

DPR - I hate the thought of lynching Wes D1 when he's been gone for a while, but I'm seriously uncomfortable with his play so far, specifically how he's been interacting with Des and Cass.

 

  

A few quick takes based on the day/night results and discussion so far...

 

Des is still firmly on my town list.

 

Womby bumps down a notch.

 

Pral jumps up to tentative town - based on Despo's Yates Spew Analysis in part, but also because I don't see Scum!Pral dropping his push on me after realizing Yates never mentioned me in his reads list.  

 

DPR still looks sketchy to me.

 

Rags still looks pretty townie.

 

Little less sure of Thane.

 

I need to re-read and recalibrate, and tomorrow will be a fine, fine day for that.  Tonight is for unwinding from a long, stressful week.  Expect more activity from me for the next two days.

Thane, does this read progression feel natural for you? Does it match what Tress said just now?

 

Tress - what does "a little less sure" mean?

[csarmi]

Thane are you home?

[Nynaeve]

 

Tress.

Why did Krak not place a meaningful vote

 

I've been asking myself the same question. I don't understand EOD2. Kivam could have kept his vote on Verbram and Krak could have fueled it and maybe saved his hide while mislynching Verbram. He could have voted AJ. Or alternatively he could have piled on Kivam to look good once he flipped. Instead Kivam unvotes Verbram, moves his vote to AJ (who had 1 vote on him at the time), thereby putting himself as the leading train. Him not taking the easy way out and trying to push Verbram is odd.  Doesn't add up. And Krak's yolo vote on Pral makes even less sense in the situation.