[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Kivam]

Window closes in 12 minutes as I need to jump into another meeting.  You all picked this hour to be inactive??

[csarmi]

I dont even know who we are voting.

 

Des where is our PoE?

 

Anyway. I wanna lynch DPR.

 

[V]##DPR[/v]

 

Despo can adjust if he wills. Itz over 9pm here. Nn

[Cass]

Do you have reasons csarm, specifically?

[Kivam]

OK, guys, meetings starting back up.  I'm out, will follow on phone as I can

[Verbal32]

Ok, I have a very small window to chat.  Sorry for being absent - my trip to Miami was way busier than I expected, and today has been insane.

 

 

I see that Nyn ISOd me and found a couple inconsistencies.  Barm told me we were in danger via Hydrachat, so I'm here to help fix this.  We are not scum.  If I contradicted myself in the very early game on something with Salami/Thane, then so be it.

 

Is it because I said I missed something from Thane and then previously addressed it?  Can we clarify that?

[Barmacral]

Ok so got ahold of Verbal via email and he won't be back today, is swamped at work. With that I'm going to post his ISO and try to go through it as best I can. No promises on answering everything though. As before, blue in the spoiler tags.

 

 

I've only managed to do Verbal's ISO so far. I will try to do Barm's a bit later but no promises. Got a bit of a migrane. 

 

 

Verbal ISO

 

 

 

 

So his OP as far as I can see is quoting Salami and calling him scum.  In these quotes it's basically Salami calling Lee's 'sup' a townie post and him asking Thane if he's scum. First of all his lack of humorous entrance to the game kinda sticks out to me. I haven't gone into the trouble of searching through all of his games to verify, but from memory, he usually does come in with a jokey manner and builds up to seriousness. So this should be noted.

 

He got his humourous entrance in our QT. Might be why he didn't do it in game.

 

Secondly, we just came out of the Firefly game where I built a case on Salami and pointed him doing the exact same thing (he ended up being town). Ie starting off the game throwing town reads for stupid reasons and asking people if they’re scum as if they’d actually tell him if they were. Is it redundant play? Sure. But Salami does this as town. Verbal is aware of it and it feels a tad opportunistic that he’s trying to use salami’s typical bad play to push him right off the bat.

 

Or Verb could be treating it as a new game where Salami's actions don't necessarily reflect what his alignment/role were in another game. Obviously I can't comment on Verb's meta knowledge.

 

Salami of course says he is not scum. And Verb nudges him again with… okay, so SK? Lectures Thane about reading the rules after he shows amazement at Yates’ claim.

 

Verbal engages Yaetes about the 3 amigo thing and doesn’t get how it’s crossing a line if one of them could just fib on it if they rolled scum. Keeps on the convo with him saying that if he can’t lie to AJ and Dice with this shtick then they prolly can’t be friends. I am getting a bad feeling from the exchange. I feel like Verbal gave him the opening to say that he was incapable of lying to them , polishing his image of being a great humanitarian lol  Then they sort of diss each other a bit. Meh.

 

You got a bad  feeling means nothing here. Verb wasn't "giving" yates a chance to say anything though, the questioning was quite legitimate.

 

Darthe questions how come Verbal hasn’t brought him up yet. Verbal says he’s not cool enough. Lol

 

Verbal thought this was a weird comment by Darthe as Verb stated in the QT that he has never focused on Darthe in the first bit of a game like Darthe claimed.

 

Then more exchange with Yates where he tells him he has honor and won’t lie if he rolled scum. Verbal says he doesn’t wanna spam the thread about it, yet he keeps talking about it. States the whole thing doesn’t make sense to him but that he sees his point. Whaaa? Lol

 

Here let me share the quote so you can read it again. Maybe it'll make sense to you this time. It really isn't a stretch:

 

 

 

 

Wait....you can't lie to Dice with your inside joke to win a mafia game?  You might be too nice for us to be friends.

It's not about being nice. You've met me. I can be called many things but "nice" isn't one of them. It's about having something called HONOR. Get some.

 

 

I don't think this really makes sense, though.  I don't want to spam the thread about it, but you're saying you won't use your inside joke to lie as scum.  I don't equate that with having honor.  But I see your point.

 

 

 

 

Then again says, yeah lets not derail…. But keeps going about it not having anything to do with honor. Blab la bla. I tell ya, for someone who’s allegedly trying to drop it, he’s certainly going on and on about it.

 

Oh you mean the very next post Verbal made where he told Yates they could discuss it post game and then left the topic alone? Yeah, that really is going on and on and on and on and on about it.

 

Then Verbal posts ONE spiderman meme. FOUR minutes later Arsis slaps him with a vote with the lame excuse that Lee said once that he’s scum when he posts spiderman memes. Now I admit that me already having a scum read on Pral/Arsis slot might be making me biased but come on. This looks like a blatant set up where Verbal is giving Arsis room for distancing. He posts ONE meme and Arsis posts minutes later, jumping up his throat over it? Please. Ladies and gentleman, this feels like a DUH moment. HUGE ASS FoS.

 

Huge FoS on Verb doing something he does every game for something that Arsis chose to do? The only DUH moment here is when you realise how ridiculous your comment is, regardless of Arsis's alignment. Which btw I'm in agreement with Des and Wombat, I think the Yates flip cleared him pretty well and he is unlikely to be scum.

 

Verbal responds with… hey didn’t you just see TownVerb post a bunch of spidey memes in a previous game?  He never actually gets a response from Arsis about this, btw. Nor asks for it again.Instead Verb immediately jumps Leelou when she says that him spamming with spidey memes is a red flag. Remember, up until this point Verbal only posted TWO spidey memes. Ie Leelou wasn’t actually FoSing him here. Just stating a FACT.

Anyways. Verbal is claims that what Leelou said is a ping. That she knows the amount of memes posted is proportional to the atmosphere of the thread and NOT alignment indicative. 

 

So Leelou responds with. You’re known to bury the thread with spidey memes when you’re scum. He responds with “Really? Can you help me remember when I did this?”. Lee responds it was a while ago, while Des mentions he did it when they were both scummies. He says Des wins points and Lee lost points. Of course this whole exchange means Verbal is full of it. As Des indicated and Verbal himself confirmed, spamming spidey memes IS alignment indicative. So his earlier responses to Leelou were a lie. He can claim that this was a test reaction to Leelou because he might not have foreseen Des interjecting… but at this point it just looks bad. Leelou’s flip makes it look worse. Anyways, he decides to give Des brownie points that redeem his feelings about Salami.  >.>

 

Verb and Leelou are quite open about being able to read each other in the game, and Verb has a specific style of trying to gauge Leelou and figure out her alignment. You're the meta person here, this is something you should be aware of. Also did you read the context? Leelou's response to him was "it was a while ago", where Des was able to pinpoint which game it happened in. Of course Des would gain points and Leelou would lose some. Scum or town, it was a bad response from her.

 

Verbal moves on to nudging Thane. Thane suggested a salami/Verbal scum team as a reactionary test and Verbal questions if he was really testing them and developing reads or doing it for the sake of doing it. Seems like an empty exchange. As in… Thane said it… no one reacted…  Verbal admitted to skimming Thane’s post and missing it. So why is he suddenly turning it around on Thane? Not following him at all. Thane says he might have odd methods but at least he’s trying. Verbal is all woah! Don’t get defensive. I’m just trying to understand! Keeps this seemingly meaningless exchange with Thane. I don’t know, I don’t feel like he’s really trying to pick Thane’s brain. I feel like he’s padding his thread presence. 

 

Then he says, and I quote “Well, I didn't say much about it because I was on your case for "silly stuff" last game and you were town.  Due to me misreading you, I'd rather sit back and observe more.” This is a lie. Earlier he told Thane he didn’t react to the suggestion because he skimmed through his posts and missed it. Now he’s saying he did see it but experience from past games held him back and he rather sit back and observe? I bet he does. FoS!

 

Yeah I got nothing on this one. I have no idea why he did that.

 

Then he backs up Barm about having notes as if that means anything. Noted. Then he agrees with Arsis when he says that he’s yet to see a game where Thane doesn't get called scum day 1. And that he votes for him every time and he's town 99% of the time. Okay. Still don’t get what’s the point of that being brought up, as I said at the time. Still remains unclear. Keeps discussing with Salami how to read Thane. Arsis jumps in to soft defend Verbal and says he’s the one who brought up all the Thane talk and Verbal just commented.  Arsis FoSes me and says it looks like scum taking a hard stance on something to seem like they’re doing something. Verbal AGREES with him. Really? Don’t recall him following up on this FoS of me.

 

He agreed on it being scummy, but was still neutral about you on the whole. He didn't follow up because he wasn't looking to lynch you.

 

Then Krak asks him what is his angle on Thane. Verbal says he has none. So, he spent a handful of posts talking about Thane, his meta, previous games. But when asked about it he says he has no angle. So… what’s the point of this discussion? Is he town reading Thane? Is he scum reading Thane? Oh so he’s reading him as Null? Then why the whole Thane talk? I just don’t follow AT ALL and he obviously didn't infer anything from the conversation so I don't get what gives.

 

Null read.

 

Fluff about vote tags.

 

Dice walks in at some point and says he gets what Yates is talking about (honor bla bla). Verbal replies with: Well at least SOMEBODY does. So trying to look confused? I mean he did have an exchange with Yates. Said he got his point. So shooting for the confused townie isn’t a good look for him. Lee said just nod and smile. And then he asks her if SHE knows what this is all about. 

 

Quote is up above still in case you want to re-read it and finally figure out what Verb actually said instead of just deciding arbitrarily that he's contradicting himself (I promise it isn't that hard to understand).

 

Then Darthe questions him about the whole thing with Lee and her response about the memes. Verbal gives the garbage response of how he expects Lee to answer differently than other people. BS, BS and more BS. What she said was either true or false. He confirmed what Des said. Plus we now know she was town.  He’s backtracking. On what universe should he expect Lee to say anything that isn’t the truth? Lol  Like seriously? Wombat nudges Verbal about the same as Darthe did. Verbal directs him to his response to Darthe and says that’s his weird complicated way of accurately reading Leelou. Apparently not. :P

 

I know for a fact you've seen this 'weirdly complicated' method of trying to read Leelou in at least one other game where you were a hydra with her, so you screaming BS is the real BS.

 

When Darthe calls him out about saying he’s going to observe he says that he already posted a bunch and some people haven’t even checked in. So he felt comfortable sitting back an observing.  He did post quite a bit but there wasn’t much content to it aside from the Thane talk, fluff and his thick prod at Lee. He hasn’t really talked about much else. And he didn’t even end up getting a lean on Thane after the whole Thane talk… so like… what content does he feel like he shared with the rest of us that he can now go have a nap? Lol

 

When leelou asks him if he’s gonna address her uneasiness about him he replies with: I hope so and lols. Erm. Okay?

 

Then Verbal calls out Kivam’s vote on Silli, says it’s confirmed that he didn’t read the OP and that there are vigs with NK as well. This is prolly the only actual good point he made since the game started. He quotes the setup to Kivam. Then throws a one liner post of Silli is prolly town. He didn’t interact with him or spoke of him at any point. Then he throws that comment and doesn’t explain why. Ironic considering he walked into the game FoSing Salami for doing the very same thing. Lol

 

More fluff.

 

Makes a good point against Kivam’s vote on Sili. That makes two good points and a gazillion pings. Neat.

 

Then he doesn’t post for about a day and a half and when he does resurface, he cherry picks a post of Krak where he asks dice why did he feel the need to explain his unvote on Cass. He asks him why he felt the need to ask that. Seems like a random post to respond to, personally. At the time it seemed odd to me that he missed a day and a half and chose that as the ONLY thing to respond to. Comes across like… oops I haven’t posted in a while… need to post something so no one would notice me slanking.

 

He's a busy man, not super tons of time available, as evidenced by my responding to this for him.

 

Anyways later he reiterates that he doesn’t like Kivam’s vote on Sili (for like the third time.... we got it) and that he’s not defending Sili, but attacking Kivam’s reasoning behind the vote.

 

Then he stopped posting cause of his business trip.

 

 

[Verbal32]

I'm here, dope.

[Barmacral]

Ok, I have a very small window to chat.  Sorry for being absent - my trip to Miami was way busier than I expected, and today has been insane.

 

 

I see that Nyn ISOd me and found a couple inconsistencies.  Barm told me we were in danger via Hydrachat, so I'm here to help fix this.  We are not scum.  If I contradicted myself in the very early game on something with Salami/Thane, then so be it.

 

Is it because I said I missed something from Thane and then previously addressed it?  Can we clarify that?

 

Hahahahahaha I hate you.

[Barmacral]

I just spent like an hour typing that thing up.

[Verbal32]

Wow, that was a good response, dude.

 

Nyn, you're exaggerating on many of those points.  And you know as well as anybody how I engage Leelou to get a read on her.  I've gotten reads fast once in a while, but it is usually a process.

 

Actually, it's pretty crap that you're just deciding to call that BS.  I've been reading Leelou (mostly accurately, by the way) the same damn way for over 5 years.  I don't give 2 buckets of monkey piss if you think I'm BSing by saying I expect different answers from her.  I've said it in many past games - feel free to go digging to prove yourself wrong.

[Verbal32]

Then Verbal calls out Kivam’s vote on Silli, says it’s confirmed that he didn’t read the OP and that there are vigs with NK as well. This is prolly the only actual good point he made since the game started. He quotes the setup to Kivam. Then throws a one liner post of Silli is prolly town. He didn’t interact with him or spoke of him at any point. Then he throws that comment and doesn’t explain why. Ironic considering he walked into the game FoSing Salami for doing the very same thing. Lol

 

 

Jeez, Nyn.  Have you ever seen people say randomly say something to see who jumps aboard or who defends.  Wombat does it ALL THE TIME when he just votes without support.  He's looking to see who "invents" stuff and who piles on with good reasoning.  I'm sure there's more to it, but there is a method behind the madness.

 

Same here.  I think you really want me to be scum, and most of your ISO there is confbias to that effect.  You're calling stuff BS that clearly isn't.

[Verbal32]

I'm used to your ISOs being much more objective than this.

[Nynaeve]

Wow, that was a good response, dude.

 

Not really.  

[Nynaeve]

I'm used to your ISOs being much more objective than this.

 

Yes, I can see why you wouldn't find this particular ISO objective.... might have to do with it being your ISO. Just sayin' lol

[Nynaeve]

 

Then Verbal calls out Kivam’s vote on Silli, says it’s confirmed that he didn’t read the OP and that there are vigs with NK as well. This is prolly the only actual good point he made since the game started. He quotes the setup to Kivam. Then throws a one liner post of Silli is prolly town. He didn’t interact with him or spoke of him at any point. Then he throws that comment and doesn’t explain why. Ironic considering he walked into the game FoSing Salami for doing the very same thing. Lol

 

 

Jeez, Nyn.  Have you ever seen people say randomly say something to see who jumps aboard or who defends.  Wombat does it ALL THE TIME when he just votes without support.  He's looking to see who "invents" stuff and who piles on with good reasoning.  I'm sure there's more to it, but there is a method behind the madness.

 

Same here.  I think you really want me to be scum, and most of your ISO there is confbias to that effect.  You're calling stuff BS that clearly isn't.

 

 

I want you to be scum? xD

 

So this is the only part of the ISO you're gonna comment on or is there more?

[Barmacral]

 

Wow, that was a good response, dude.

 

Not really.  

 

 

Better response than your entire case.

[Verbal32]

 

I'm used to your ISOs being much more objective than this.

 

Yes, I can see why you wouldn't find this particular ISO objective.... might have to do with it being your ISO. Just sayin' lol

 

 

Not at all.  You were very forceful in trying to depict me as scum with crap from the beginning of D1.  You usually put the info out there and let people chew on it - this one is much more forceful.

[Nynaeve]

 

 

Wow, that was a good response, dude.

 

Not really.  

 

 

Better response than your entire case.

 

 

This is really funny.

[hazelkrs1]

Okay caught up.

 

Not really feeling the VerBarm lynch as much. Kinda eh on the chances of them flipping scum, and with them being gone most of D2 I don't think they would be a very informative lynch either.

 

The ones I'm most up for lynching atm are the people who have been pushing the most antitown agenda all day imo- Kivam and DPR. Both have CONTINUOUSLY kept trying to derail actual productive discussion and instead focus talk on NA speculation and "SK hunting". Also kinda feel like AJ is actually on point and that Kivam pushing the crap he's pushing on AJ as if it's alignment indicative looks just incredibly scummy for Kivam's part.

 

Anyways I'm kind of in the slanking it mood, so lemme get out a quick POE and go from there

[Nynaeve]

Not at all.  You were very forceful in trying to depict me as scum with crap from the beginning of D1.  You usually put the info out there and let people chew on it - this one is much more forceful.

 

Sure thing, drama queen.

 

So how about you respond to all the points I made in my ISO? I'll wait.

[Nynaeve]

Not really feeling the VerBarm lynch as much. Kinda eh on the chances of them flipping scum, and with them being gone most of D2 I don't think they would be a very informative lynch either.

 

I'm actually feeling pretty good about it.

[Verbal32]

Okay caught up.

 

Not really feeling the VerBarm lynch as much. Kinda eh on the chances of them flipping scum, and with them being gone most of D2 I don't think they would be a very informative lynch either.

 

The ones I'm most up for lynching atm are the people who have been pushing the most antitown agenda all day imo- Kivam and DPR. Both have CONTINUOUSLY kept trying to derail actual productive discussion and instead focus talk on NA speculation and "SK hunting". Also kinda feel like AJ is actually on point and that Kivam pushing the crap he's pushing on AJ as if it's alignment indicative looks just incredibly scummy for Kivam's part.

 

Anyways I'm kind of in the slanking it mood, so lemme get out a quick POE and go from there

 

Tell me about it.  hehe

 

 

 

 

 

Not at all.  You were very forceful in trying to depict me as scum with crap from the beginning of D1.  You usually put the info out there and let people chew on it - this one is much more forceful.

 

Sure thing, drama queen.

 

So how about you respond to all the points I made in my ISO? I'll wait.

 

 

So you resort to calling me a drama queen.  Yeah, that sums me up perfectly.

 

I'll cut up what Barm responded to - or try to cut it up.

[Barmacral]

 

The biggest threat right now is that discussion has went everywhere and votes have practically stopped.  I don't think it's DADV quite yet but the fact that even Verbarm seem comfortable with this lynch is maddening.  

 

Darthe, Barm's reaction only reinforces my scum read on that slot. His defense, essentially is ridiculing my expectation of him to express his thoughts on thread. It's laughable. First of all, why wouldn't he want to share his thoughts? What does he have to hide? Secondly, this is a forum mafia game. If he doesn't say what he thinks ON THREAD he's free to make up whatever he likes later on... which is exactly what happened with Leelou's "ruse". He threw a comment at her. Let it lay until I rehashed it..... and since he didn't bother explaining anything at the time he can pull reasons out of his ass and say.... oh I obviously did this because of this and that. Why should I believe him? 

 

His disinterest in being the lead train all day speaks volumes imo. And his reluctance to say anything about Verb's ISO is also odd. I get the distinct feeling that he doesn't care. I don't know if that's typical for him as a player or not.... but it really isn't a good look for him.

 

 

Disinterested? No, your case came up during the weekend where I was gone - a thing I even stated in thread before I was gone. I'm not disinterested, I haven't been available to respond. You should know this though, you are the one who did the ISO on me and presumably read all of my posts.

[Nynaeve]

So you resort to calling me a drama queen.  Yeah, that sums me up perfectly.

 

I'll cut up what Barm responded to - or try to cut it up.

 

Name calling makes me jolly 

[Nynaeve]

Disinterested? No, your case came up during the weekend where I was gone - a thing I even stated in thread before I was gone. I'm not disinterested, I haven't been available to respond. You should know this though, you are the one who did the ISO on me and presumably read all of my posts.

 

 

Presumably. Maybe I didn't. Who knows?!  MYSTERY