[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[BFG]

Des - I don't have strong reads. I have ordered them as to how I'm feeling and with consultation from Key, the bottom 5 are the people in my POE. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

 

Yates - Voting Pral because he's in my POE, the AJ thing was something that stood out, it's not 'the' reason we're voting him. I've already said this.

[Alanna]

And how would you be able to determine what was going through Pray's head when he wrote that list Sili?

 

I will reiterate, I find nothing odd or significant in the slightest at someone putting AJ as "null". Yes not outside either his town or scum range here, and the survivor obviously COULD be a fake claim. Looks like a lot of hooplah over nothing to me.

 

Best part is with a scumflip on basically any of Alanna, BFKey, Sili, or Berf, we pretty much get a LOCK CLEAR on Pray. Good times.

 

Are you saying this because we're scum reads for him? Not exactly sure that points to lock clear. Because no one ever puts some fellow scum in their scum reads or anything. Granted, I find this more likely now that he's elaborated on those reads, but you said this before he did that.

 

There are really two options. He put it as null because a) he didn't know aj had role claimed, or b) he didn't care to show he knew aj had role claimed indy. One or the other is the case, and neither are very different from the other.

 

Besides, I think the overall proposition is Pral demonstrated no understanding of the thread in his list, and Aj as null on it illustrates that point quite well.

 

Yeah, gonna have to agree with - I think it was Despo, or maybe Yates - here in that null and purple are just not that dissimilar, and I wouldn't read into Pral's putting AJ as null that that means he didn't know AJ role-claimed. In the end, both basically means that he's not on Pral's lynch list for the day.

 

Finally Sili.

 

One thing that is very apparent in his posting this game is the focus and specific targetting that he has displayed since the start of the game. One of the comments that came up the previous game where I was scum was that he was unintelligible and confused but I don't see that in this case. He started going against Tommy without any reason and continued to maintain that most of D1.

 

............

 

 

What was interesting is that there were a few people wanting to consolidate but his train kind of gets stalled. He starts trying to shame the players into not voting him

From 20 pages onto 120, I cared about a town victory. Now at the end of the line realizing I've been stabbed in the back, I will say this. If I do live, I do not care if town wins.

 

Thank you for this experience. I will not trust DM town to win a game ever again.

which looks very forced. (This was also covered by Manbat here at the time )

 

Alanna, verbal, BFG are all online but never try to consoldiate on Sili. (Dice does try there which gives me confidence that Dice is town)

 

This is when Tommy floats the Thane wagon (which is a dick move especially since he is not online during this time but kinda typical for Tommy because he has tried this in many games, includng against me). All those hesitating for Sili immediately jump on this train with the pretext of getting the lynch. The whole situation looked more like trying to avoid a SIli lynch and get people to lynch a town. Berf was not getting traction especially when he posted during the final minutes and thane sounded too convenient.

 

The whole wagonomics makes me sure Sili is scum here.

 

I cut this post of Pral's down, just FYI.

 

The first bolded - this is why I was initializing townreading Sili earlier on Day 1, because he seemed very confusing to me in the Firefly game, but was talking a lot more sense to me in this one. However, he dropped down on my reads list later because I started wondering if that was because he was being coached. Still think it's a possibility.

 

Second bolded - I noted this as well, and it's another reason I think a Sili lynch would be a good idea.

 

 

OK so this has annoyed me right thru the game. You keep saying this about people yet my understanding is ure a new player.  theres no way you have played enough with Alanna to know her "town range"

 

Please explain to me how you know what people ranges as scum or town are?  are you more experienced then i thought? how often have you played with people like des or aj or alanna?

 

 

Not to mention, very few people in this game has actually played with a scum Alanna. I have not played and there will be just a handful of players who know her scum meta. So, I don't understand how people confidently say that she is playing scum or town purely by her way of posting (That is one of the reasons why I rely on wagonomics for scum hunting)

 

 

Actually, Pral, you have seen my scum game, in dap's French Revolution game - I subbed in for Basel. I think my scum game there was more aggressive than usual though, out of necessity, since Basel was top lynch candidate when I came into the game.

 

Also - thought I'd quoted Pral's post on BFKey, but I guess I didn't. I don't know if nudging is actually a scumtell on Key or not, but I don't think her asking questions - asking for clarification or asking someone to elaborate, or pointing out discrepancies in people's posts - is scummy in and of itself. I associate that as being a very townie thing to do. Easy to imitate as scum, but inherently townie.

 

However, I do agree with Pral's reasoning about how BFG seemed to hesitate on Sili and was waiting for an alternative vote.

 

More coming.

[BFG]

Des if we'd protected Tommy last night, it would have been from you. If you're both town then mafia have no reason to shoot Tommy, but I guess we'll see end of game if we were right, or if they shot the doc's protect

[Alanna]

##verb - sheeping tom wagon.

 

What are you referring to here? Confused.

 

Okay, so Key's post with her JK claim. First of all, before I even got to the claim, I liked a lot about this post. It was the first time I got real townie vibes from Key. I agreed with her points about questioning people, checking back on people, and, while I'm not really scumreading Tommy, I get her particular stance on reading him as scum.

 

 

 

So you're saying you were just counting on me not being targeted because I was an obvious protection target?

 

Do you usually doc like that?

 

I would think I would be a perfect candidate for a town JK last night. Worst case is you stop me from using an action as scum.

This. JKing Tommy as the town JK in this situation is basically the ONLY move that makes sense. Normally a JK may not want to JK town PR claims since it may keep them from using an ability, but Tommy was claiming a role that had no positive utility, only negative utility if he died. So there is zero reason to not JK him in that scenario.

 

And if you doubt the claim whatsoever (since it IS a common scum fake claim) you could still block him from doing any negative actions against town.

 

Like I said, the ONLY move that makes sense for town JK. BFG and Key are both def smart enough to see that. Not buying their claim.

 

 

While it makes a lot of sense, I wouldn't say it's the only move that makes sense. Key and BFG were apparently more concerned with utilizing their JK as a protect, and given their strong scumread on Tommy, felt their protect was best used elsewhere. I understand the WIFOM argument as well.

 

 

From whatbi remember you had one blue, two greens, and a bunch of yellows and oranges and no reds.

 

THAT IS NOT A VERY STRONG POE. And BFG's was about the same

 

So nope, POE is just not going to cut it for me, I think that was a cop out reasoning on your part.

I quoted our last list for you above.

 

Okay, well, then thinking about it from the angle I'm scum, I would know that EVERYONE would come after me for having weak reads, so why would I put them out there like that? So I could do what, draw more attention to myself and make you doubt me further? Come on.

 

 

Yeah...but then posts like this make me questions Key's towniness. Unless she was being sarcastic.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

Not going to fish for it if you can't bother yourself with fact-checking.

Because you can't back it up it looks like you're lying.

 

I could. I won't because I'm not particularly inclined to put more effort into your inquiry than you are.

[Alanna]

So, to sum up:

 

I'm feeling a little better about BFKey due to most of Key's recent posts and the JK claim. At the very least, I'm more hesitant to lynch them because, assuming they really are town JK, that could very well be our only protect role in the game. Looking back, there are still things that make me wary about their slot, but right now they've moved up in my reads list.

 

I didn't mention Arsis before at all, but I'm liking him a lot more Day 2 than Day 1. Mostly a tonal thing. He just seems like he's trolling less and more trying to solve.

 

I'm really glad Pral elaborated on his reads, and a lot of what he's said jives with my thinking, as well.

 

With the current candidates, Sili is where I'd most like to place my vote. I think it's curious the way his train stalled at EOD on Day 1, and I'm suspicious of the way he feels different to me this game. I also didn't like his recent talk about giving up. Maybe he's just being very sensitive, but he seems to think people have been really unfair/rude/mean to him and wants to quit because of it? This feels to me like frustrated/panicking scum. Especially because I don't think people have been overly mean or unfair to him, so it seems extreme if he's just a frustrated villager. If that makes sense.

 

##Sili

 

Other reads:

 

Still townreading Lates, Hallia, monstr.

 

Nullish on Tommy. Kind of seems like he's dropped off a bit and that reminds me of his scum game in Firefly. 

 

Null to town on Rags, Verb. I will admit I'm kind of liking them for defending me lol.

 

Dice is making sense to me, but I also feel like he isn't saying much. Keeping an eye on him. 

 

Despo...meh. I'm kind of prone to OMGUS-y feelings, so I'm not confident about reading him right now. 

 

Can't recall anything lately from berf, though I'm pretty sure he posted somewhere. I'll take a look at his ISO for his recent posts before I head out.

 

Good lord, it's nearly 1 in the morning...and I have to work tomorrow and still need to pack tonight for a trip I'm leaving on right after work. Yuck. 

 

 

[Arsis]

Day 1 is for lulz. After day 1 we put our big boy pants on.

[Arsis]

 

 

 

Not going to fish for it if you can't bother yourself with fact-checking.

Because you can't back it up it looks like you're lying.

I could. I won't because I'm not particularly inclined to put more effort into your inquiry than you are.

Even if I go back and look. I Still want to see what you were talking about. What if I don't see it or if I see something else. I want to see how you make the argument. You making an accusation without backing it up when pushed is not a good look.

[Alanna]

Okay, re: berf - So the Hallia vote is interesting. I appreciate that he didn't like any of the current candidates and went for his own. I'm townreading Hallia though, so I don't really agree on the tone thing. Still not sure where the heat on Cory is from, though admittedly, I haven't played much with him. I just feel like he wasn't into the game much, and given he stepped out, seems it was probably due to RL stuff.

 

Anyhow, what I don't like from berf is his pushing to lynch both AJ (claimed survivor) and Tommy (claimed BP) and not because he doesn't believe them, but because he does. So you want to waste two lynches on a townie and a 3rd party that can win with us? Seems like a bad idea.

 

Keeping my vote on Sili for now, but berf has dropped to a null to scum lean for me.

[Alanna]

All right, so I'm out for the night. Tomorrow I have to get up early, go vote, go to work, and then leave straight for my road trip. Tons to do at work too, so aside from maybe checking in at lunch, I won't be on before the evening, and that'll be on mobile in the car.

[Sili Quirrels]

Alanna:

 

Yeah, gonna have to agree with - I think it was Despo, or maybe Yates - here in that null and purple are just not that dissimilar, and I wouldn't read into Pral's putting AJ as null that that means he didn't know AJ role-claimed. In the end, both basically means that he's not on Pral's lynch list for the day.

 

Well it may be the case he knew, but he didn't care to demonstrate it for whatever reason. Null says nothing.
 

 

Second bolded - I noted this as well, and it's another reason I think a Sili lynch would be a good idea.

 

The people who would have voted me just weren't around, and those who were, were genuinely unsure I suspect. If they had been I'd be in the dead thread laughing at us for pushing the wrong people.

 

As it is I was at L-3 or L-2. And the cfd on me happened less than a couple hours to eod. I bet you a couple wolves were in on it.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

 

Not going to fish for it if you can't bother yourself with fact-checking.

Because you can't back it up it looks like you're lying.

I could. I won't because I'm not particularly inclined to put more effort into your inquiry than you are.

Even if I go back and look. I Still want to see what you were talking about. What if I don't see it or if I see something else. I want to see how you make the argument. You making an accusation without backing it up when pushed is not a good look.

 

I backed up my accusation, already. I don't feel obligated to repeat myself every time someone asks.

 

Have the stomach to do your own fact checking if you're going to accuse someone of lying.

[Sili Quirrels]

and I'm suspicious of the way he feels different to me this game

 

Isn't it good I sound more reasonable?

 

Maybe I'm a better wolf than villager.

[Leelou]

BFKey - do you guys think Tommy is town and lying or scum and lying? 

[hazelkrs1]

I'm kinda at the point where I'd just like to see some flips. Alanna seems reasonable with a lot of stuff she's saying, bit nothing that's out of her scum range. I also think she might just be going super bus/distancing to try and salvage the situation.

 

Plus, I don't get HOW she could not have a solid read on me at this point. She blamed OMGUS for making her read meh, but I don't think that's quite enough to explain not having a solid read. I think she's just afraid to spew me as town or something, wants to keep ambiguity alive.

[hazelkrs1]

Regardless, I think the pretty clear choice for us today is to lynch Sili. He's the scummiest person in the game by far, and all the theatrics and reactionary ploys from him just do not in any way seem like they could come from a townie.

 

For some reason the situation besides him is actually more muddled than I'd like to act like it is now, but meh hopefully more NA's can help resolve stuff further.

[Arsis]

 

 

 

 

 

Not going to fish for it if you can't bother yourself with fact-checking.

Because you can't back it up it looks like you're lying.

I could. I won't because I'm not particularly inclined to put more effort into your inquiry than you are.

Even if I go back and look. I Still want to see what you were talking about. What if I don't see it or if I see something else. I want to see how you make the argument. You making an accusation without backing it up when pushed is not a good look.

I backed up my accusation, already. I don't feel obligated to repeat myself every time someone asks.

 

Have the stomach to do your own fact checking if you're going to accuse someone of lying.

Refer me to the post where you bsvked it uo.

[hazelkrs1]

Uh, Arsis, he didn't. Look in the nested quote within that response-

 

I could. I won't because I'm not particularly inclined to put more effort into your inquiry than you are.

[Leelou]

[v]##Sili[/v]

[Leelou]

Actually, I'm not sure if I just put him at L-2 or L-1. Not enough vcs with the volume of this game. 

[Alanna]

I'm kinda at the point where I'd just like to see some flips. Alanna seems reasonable with a lot of stuff she's saying, bit nothing that's out of her scum range. I also think she might just be going super bus/distancing to try and salvage the situation.

 

Plus, I don't get HOW she could not have a solid read on me at this point. She blamed OMGUS for making her read meh, but I don't think that's quite enough to explain not having a solid read. I think she's just afraid to spew me as town or something, wants to keep ambiguity alive.

 

Honestly, I have no idea how to read you, like, in general. I think that French Revolution game was the last game we both played in where you were scum, and even then, we didn't play in it together. I'm really no sure what your scum games looks like these days. 

[hazelkrs1]

My scum game looks AWESOME these days

 

 

But seriously- why you gotta rely on meta? You have much more solidified reads on a lot of other people this game, yet very little meta experience with many of them. Yet me, who has had a ton of presence in the thread lately, and has had direct interaction with you and has cased you and shown connections between you and others you apparently find scummy, all that and you're... Not sure what my alignment might be?

 

Seems to go past the point of plausible deniability.

[hazelkrs1]

Like, I'm not trying to brag here, and this is neither posturing or meant as reaction baiting or anything like that but is my honest opinion, but on threadplay alone, I think I've made myself the easiest to read as town of anyone in the entire game.

[hazelkrs1]

Oh and I didn't mean Pray would be LOCK CLEAR with a flip on one of you, Key, Sili, or Berf because he's listed y'all as scum reads- no not at all.

 

It was associative but the other way around- basically all of you have either voted him, hard pushed him, soft pushed him, or nudged him as a scum sespect fairly recently.

[Nynaeve]

If anyone out there is bothered by the amount of VCs they can and are very much encouraged to make unofficial ones on their own. Otherwise kinda pointless to point it out. Krak is busy with uni and I post VCs to the best of my ability (contrary to general belief, I do actually... ya know... sleep). So.... yeah. Deal.