Freemasons vs. Illuminati - Day One

[Clovdyx]

Hallia, would you like to explain why you immediately went from lynching Dice to lynching Addi?  What I said DID make sense on the assumption that everyone who had claimed to that point was telling the truth - unless you can find a scenario where BFG, GF, or TG was Lenlo's partner, it simply had to be Addi?

 

But Andrej summed it up perfectly - in order to roll with it, you have to buy that everybody is telling the truth.  If you were going against Dice due to the number of town claims, I don't see why me claiming town and pushing somebody else was enough to swing your vote.

[Yates]

I'm actually okay with pressuring a claim out of Addi today, ftr.  I'm good with this even if for no other reason than to help her help Town.

[Andrej]

 

 

I think I know who Despot's mason partner was. I'm not going to say who, for obvious reasons. Right now, this is our list of claimed nonmasons: -Andrej -Yates -Dice -Key -Hallia I'm not a mason, which fills up the vanilla, seer, and mafia goon list. [v]Addi[/v]. I guess my initial read on her was wrong.

 

This is just way too mechanical and I really don't like it Clov. I think you're smarter than this.

 

Why not?  We need a starting point, and I feel good about MOST of the people who have claimed.  There's certainly the possible one of the people on that list was lying, but it's also possible they're telling the truth.  With TG's claim, we know one of the seven is lying, but we didn't have that information at the time.

Like I said earlier, I understand the theory and how you came to this conclusion based on your other reads and the number of claims at the time. I just have a hard time believing you didn't consider the possibility that those who had already claimed were lying.

 

 

Although I disagree with the tactic I think Dice is probably clear for it.

 

[v]Clov[/v]

 

Figure I'd move to my next most likely target.

 

Yates - where are you at currently? I feel like you're hanging back a bit.

 

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum.  I'll admit I'm probably biased because it appears to have been a chance to get ME modkilled, but I really don't see how it can be viewed as pro-town.  Even if I were scum, I'd still know the "correct" answer to this question.

I don't think the intent was to get you MK'd. I don't associate Dice with maliciousness and that would be grounds for it imo. I'm not considering the tactic pro-town but I DO think him going there was for townie reasons. And while I agree choosing 'correctly' may not be difficult, it shows that at least Dice should know the answer beforehand.

[Andrej]

I'm actually okay with pressuring a claim out of Addi today, ftr.  I'm good with this even if for no other reason than to help her help Town.

 

Yates I'm beginning to think you might be scum this game.

 

Why are you letting me do all the heavy lifting with no spot, br0?

[Andrej]

Hallia, would you like to explain why you immediately went from lynching Dice to lynching Addi?  What I said DID make sense on the assumption that everyone who had claimed to that point was telling the truth - unless you can find a scenario where BFG, GF, or TG was Lenlo's partner, it simply had to be Addi?

 

But Andrej summed it up perfectly - in order to roll with it, you have to buy that everybody is telling the truth.  If you were going against Dice due to the number of town claims, I don't see why me claiming town and pushing somebody else was enough to swing your vote.

 

See.

 

You are smart.

 

Lynch Hallia imo

[Clovdyx]

I'm actually okay with pressuring a claim out of Addi today, ftr.  I'm good with this even if for no other reason than to help her help Town.

 

What do you think about Despot?

[Andrej]

lolwut

[keyholder21]

Ear infections suck -.-
 

Even if I were scum, I'd still know the "correct" answer to this question.

Really? Because I wouldn't have known from my scum PM.


Also, could you please tell me when you read on me changed?  Early in the game, you seemed to think I was scum, (This post you say you are leaning scum on me, and this post you say that I could be bussing Des) but then you decided to assume my claim was the truth and vote Addi? 

 

 

Other than that, Clov readthrough didn't do much to help me.  He seems to be pretty methodical and asking questions of people while supplying some of his own thought, but has stayed out of the big pieces of the thread, imo.  I want to go back and look at a game where he was scum, because the detached method of asking questions is how I feel I operate as scum so it's niggling in the back of my head.  

[Yates]

 

I'm actually okay with pressuring a claim out of Addi today, ftr.  I'm good with this even if for no other reason than to help her help Town.

 

What do you think about Despot?

 

I think he's a fine updstanding gentleman. What do you think about Despot?

[Clovdyx]

lolwut

 

He (Yates) made a comment to start the phase that he would have expected the NK to be one of the more cleared towns or somebody on the Lenlo train.  I don't disagree with that line of reasoning...which brings about the question, why WAS Des chosen?

 

There is an obvious answer.  And there's an obvious counter to that.  I want to see which theory he subscribes to.

[keyholder21]

 

Hally – I don’t see her trying to break up the fight between des and I if she is scum. I also don’t see her continuing to push GF so hard at EOD as scum.

 

Actually this would fit as Hallia being hyper aware of her town reads on both you and Despot, and so in order to avoid voting one of you two (and not Len) she started the wagon on GF which was quickly joined by Len to tie up the wagons at 2 a piece.

 

I suppose that could be the case, but then she made that post after my discussion with des about me vanishing and des maybe being right. I feel like that would have been easy enough for her to use as evidence for her changing her mind on me and voting me EOD to get me lynched instead.

[Andrej]

I could see Clov here as scum tbh. Still don't think I want to lynch him today though.

 

He's certainly good enough to fake the funk AND make points that are logical.

[Andrej]

Also Key, Clov was town last game so he'd have an idea.

 

I think it's best we squash this line of thought though.

[Clovdyx]

Ear infections suck -.-

 

Even if I were scum, I'd still know the "correct" answer to this question.

Really? Because I wouldn't have known from my scum PM.

 

 

Also, could you please tell me when you read on me changed?  Early in the game, you seemed to think I was scum, (This post you say you are leaning scum on me, and this post you say that I could be bussing Des) but then you decided to assume my claim was the truth and vote Addi? 

 

 

Other than that, Clov readthrough didn't do much to help me.  He seems to be pretty methodical and asking questions of people while supplying some of his own thought, but has stayed out of the big pieces of the thread, imo.  I want to go back and look at a game where he was scum, because the detached method of asking questions is how I feel I operate as scum so it's niggling in the back of my head.  

 

Then I don't know what Darthe named scum PMs.  Both of mine make it seem pretty obvious....

 

I had you as null going into the night phase.  Des was my top scum suspect, so I didn't think the two of you would play the fight out nearly as much as you had if you were both scum.  Des coming up down doesn't help you, but there's no reason to crucify you over it, so might as well gamble on the person who's gone being scum first and play "catch the liar" later if need be.

[Yates]

There is an obvious answer.  And there's an obvious counter to that.  I want to see which theory he subscribes to.

Psh. You think there are only two?? I don't really like NKA because it's super wifomy.

 

It could have been to make Key look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Key.

It could have been to make Addi look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Addi.

It could have been to make Dice look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Dice.

It could have been to make Hally look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Hally.

It could have been because they saw a mason link I didn't see until today.

It could have been because they were simply scared of Des.

It could have been a dice roll.

 

Why do YOU think Des was killed?

[Clovdyx]

 

There is an obvious answer.  And there's an obvious counter to that.  I want to see which theory he subscribes to.

Psh. You think there are only two?? I don't really like NKA because it's super wifomy.

 

It could have been to make Key look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Key.

It could have been to make Addi look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Addi.

It could have been to make Dice look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Dice.

It could have been to make Hally look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Hally.

It could have been because they saw a mason link I didn't see until today.

It could have been because they were simply scared of Des.

It could have been a dice roll.

 

Why do YOU think Des was killed?

 

 

I think there are only two OBVIOUS answers, yeah - Key killed him so she's leave him alone, or somebody killed him to help her mislynch.  Check his ISO.  Compare everything he said in her direction to everything he said elsewhere.  

 

Sure, it could have been somebody else trying to eliminate the threat so he didn't catch them.  It could have been because he thought nobody would miss him.  Somebody COULD have just had a cat jump on the keyboard.  

 

 

Key wasn't in my bottom three at phase change.  Removing Despot, she becomes my third likeliest mafia - possible she killed him, but I'm leaning more towards a set up.  The third partner would have a good opportunity to bus her if Des and her went to head-to-head to gain town cred, and even though she was a question mark, I really don't think she was gaining considerable traction as a lynch candidate.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

There is an obvious answer.  And there's an obvious counter to that.  I want to see which theory he subscribes to.

Psh. You think there are only two?? I don't really like NKA because it's super wifomy.

 

It could have been to make Key look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Key.

It could have been to make Addi look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Addi.

It could have been to make Dice look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Dice.

It could have been to make Hally look bad. Or it could have been because he didn't like Hally.

It could have been because they saw a mason link I didn't see until today.

It could have been because they were simply scared of Des.

It could have been a dice roll.

 

Why do YOU think Des was killed?

 

 

I think there are only two OBVIOUS answers, yeah - Key killed him so she's leave him alone, or somebody killed him to help her mislynch.  Check his ISO.  Compare everything he said in her direction to everything he said elsewhere.  

 

Sure, it could have been somebody else trying to eliminate the threat so he didn't catch them.  It could have been because he thought nobody would miss him.  Somebody COULD have just had a cat jump on the keyboard.  

 

 

Key wasn't in my bottom three at phase change.  Removing Despot, she becomes my third likeliest mafia - possible she killed him, but I'm leaning more towards a set up.  The third partner would have a good opportunity to bus her if Des and her went to head-to-head to gain town cred, and even though she was a question mark, I really don't think she was gaining considerable traction as a lynch candidate.

 

 

"So he'd leave her alone" is how the bold should read.

[Andrej]

Unofficial VC

 

Addi (2) - Clov, Hallia

Hallia (2) Dice, AJ

 

Not Voting: Yates, Key, GF, TG, Addi, BFG

[Andrej]

FTR Dice - you should start formatting your votes correctly or I think they'll be missed.

 

[ v ] [ /v ] That's all you need plus whoever you're voting in the middle.

 

Clov - you were voting Key at EOD. That suggests to me she was pretty firmly in your bottom 3

[Andrej]

Lynch pool for today is within

 

Yates

Clov

Hallia

Key

Dice

TG

AJ

 

I'm removing myself, obviously. Seer claim would take it from 2/6 to 2/5 which I think is pretty legit although I'm not necessarily asking for them to come forward yet.

 

Either way, we have a 30% chance of being correct today, and with one of the Mafia already dead we buy ourselves another mislynch so we have some room for error.

[Andrej]

I stand corrected.

 

Clov you were voting for Despot - my bad.

[Clovdyx]

FTR Dice - you should start formatting your votes correctly or I think they'll be missed.

 

[ v ] [ /v ] That's all you need plus whoever you're voting in the middle.

 

Clov - you were voting Key at EOD. That suggests to me she was pretty firmly in your bottom 3

 

This was my last thing of notes.  Last update was sometime after Lenlo's flip.  Haven't updated from Despot flip or with anything from today.

 

-BFG.(+++275. No scum motivation for lynching Lenlo there.  Also good observation of Yates abandoning is own theory)

-AJ (bad tone post 13. light FoS on Len 76. +backs Yates on GF, want explanation for my vote in #83. ++On Lenlo throughout D1, avoided competing trains to lynch him. Minimal scum motivation possibility)

-TG (-post 55.  No significance to him being scum last game, unless TG somehow thinks Len was lolcatting?  Also -referencing Vos unnecessary. +Attention to Des "help" post. -justifying my vote on Addi was RVS? +79 explains what he would associate with town behavior for Len. +maintained new player stance. +good probe 162.  ++Stayed on Lenlo throughout CFD time.  )

 

 

-GF (-observation post 47, could be joke?. -/says he has no idea on anything. +Hopped on Lenlo at deadline.  Could have been pure preservation bus, but had the opportunity to take Key down as well?)

-Hally (snipe at GF #158.  Questioned Andre's suspicion due to playing as normal. /-akward tone 188. Pretty good looking vote regarding CFD on Lenlo.)

-Addi (#33 not mason claim?  Could be playing the stupid card as scum, but more likely town. Maybe townspewed by Darthe 51.  #102 suddenly strong opinion, but +reasoning doesn't make sense from a veteran.  Also don't know that any mafia teammates would encourage her to get@me early)

 

-Key (-opens with excuse #92? soft defense of Lenlo #97. -retelling Des about two mason teams, along with asking me for a reason for my vote, similar to last game where she would piggyback a lot on things already addressed)

-Yates (+57 gets on GF for setting a lurk excuse. +explanation of it in 59. +/unlikely to make #94 as scum? -proposed Hallia and Lenlo as competing trains, yet avoided either. -opportunistic 372)

 

 

-Dice (+32, 34 seems at ease in thread.  Darthe replied to failvote, would he do that if Dice was scum? +good tone in #91. -EoD vote looked bad with hindsight.  )

-Des (-bad post 30. WoT #127 has bad analysis IRT buddying. #177 +reasonable response to my TG play, but -terribad response to vote. Ignored case entirely.  #236 -possibly misrepping of Key IRT to her not discerning my alignment?)

[Hallia]

Why so jumpy AJ?  You're going through a lot of trouble to make me look bad.  I'm not worried, I switched to Addi because I see no problem with pressure on her, and Clov made a good point.

[Yates]

Clov/AJ - Am I wrong thinking the Masons should claim or are you guys fine just knowing our masons are the three unclaimed?

[keyholder21]

With the Yates read through:

Biggest things that stuck out to me:

 

Votes me for a joke directly after providing a serious reason for voting GF.  

 

Then is "happy" to keep his vote on me, but hadn't mentioned anything about me before that, and this was over Hally, whom he'd suggested as a lynch candidate previous. 

 

Here suggests Hally/Len even though he hadn't said anything about Len before that.  He was even posting during Len's entrance and AJ/TG first looking askance at Len.  Could have included Len because other people were considering him scummy already. 

 

here says he didn't think he'd have any support for a Key wagon, but he didn't even try.  Especially after AJ and des both found me scummy/confusing. Subverts TG when TG brings up that point (re: des, AJ, plus him all thinking I looked scummy).  

 

 

 

But this post gives me pause.  Why suggest us voting Len if they are scum together?  

 

This post as well because it's a very good point, though I guess you could easily make that point as scum.