Freemasons vs. Illuminati - Day One

[keyholder21]

@Clov - I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it is a discrepancy in what zlen was saying and I feel like Aj would have noticed it. Especially since he thought we were both scum. It would have added a lot to his argument that Len and I were connected and I don't feel that town AJ would have missed it.

 

He commented about not being super impresed by the reads, which gives the impression that he read the post.

[Yates]

This looks opportunistic to me, Yates.  I see the POV, but it reads more like dirt kicking than actual hunting.

"Opportunistic?" Perhaps. Potentially catching someone illustrating scummy cogdis? Absolutely. Do you feel like I should NOT have shown Key where she agreed that one of her or Dice is almost certainly scum?

 

You might have a better argument if that was a 180 from a previous read but that was on someone I was voting at EOD.

[Yates]

EBWOP - @Clov: case in point...

@Clov - I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it is a discrepancy in what zlen was saying and I feel like Aj would have noticed it. Especially since he thought we were both scum. It would have added a lot to his argument that Len and I were connected and I don't feel that town AJ would have missed it.

He commented about not being super impresed by the reads, which gives the impression that he read the post.

[keyholder21]

Yates, what do you mean? I'm saying that AJ looks scummy to me because he missed that part of Len's post. Aka I feel that if he was town he would not. Not sure what you are talking about.

[Yates]

Yates, what do you mean? I'm saying that AJ looks scummy to me because he missed that part of Len's post. Aka I feel that if he was town he would not. Not sure what you are talking about.

I'm saying that the logic you are using to justify your AJ read would have equally applied to me had I not pointed out the contradiction in your post and found it scummy.

[hazelkrs1]

Okay just caught up. Lulz @ Lenlo being scum again and getting nabbed on D1. Sorry but I just find that rich

 

 

Alright so at first the flip made me feel that my initial suspicions of TG might have still been correct, and that TG was just in super bus mode. Specifically a post or two of his after the flip made me feel this, where he was pointing to stuff he said earlier about the GF train being dirty (Lenlo, Hallia, and Key were on it) and trying to make himself look good. In this scenario, I thought maybe his partner would have been Hallia, who also looked bad to me for her GF push (I'll get more into that later)

 

However since then after seeing Clov and BFG's wots showing diff votes and analyzing trains and whatnot, I'm now not so sure about that read. It's still possible, but unlikely imo.

 

I'm now thinking the other two scum are Key and Dice. I have a lot of quotes already pulled that can illustrate my feelings on Key (her latest posts are terribad) in addition to what I was already feeling on her, but also keep in mind that she DID soft defend Lenlo earlier in the game, and PLEASE note her basic lack of reaction to the Lenlo flip (she just puts out a wot responding to other arguments she was already embroiled in, doesn't actually directly respond to mafia getting lynched D1 at all). As far as Dice goes, his vote on GF that BFG I believe quoted looks AWFUL in light of Lenlo flipping scum. Never seen Dice "YOLO" vote someone, and as AJ said he's justifying a lot of his votes and reads with "gut" and imo scum will often use that when they are unable to properly justify their stances.

 

Hallia COULD still be scum here, so my top three are def Key, Dice, and Hallia. Will post a lot more later when I'm back at work

[Andrej]

Not a bad 3 imo

[Andrej]

 

Scum lean- Dice, Key

Only after GF voted Key to put her in the lead did Dice move to GF to also put him at 3. THIS does look bad however.

 

So I'm in a pickle. I feel like Lenlo scum spewed either Dice or Key. Possibly both. I seem to recall Lenlo including scum team mates in his scum "reads" in the past as scum. Can anyone fact check me on this assertion?

 

I would probably pick Dice over Key this game just because of the difference in their effort. Key is starting to read as flustered like she was in Woodstock when she was getting heat for being linked to conf-scum (ironically enough Len) and Dice seems to be absolving himself of responsibility when it comes to his votes. I'll need to check his ISO but I think he's relying a little too much on the DiceGOAT thing and trying to base all of his moves on his 'gut' which is ditching accountability at this point.

 

 

Len has you in his reads - so... I don't understand your point there? And how would I be distancing based on missing something? Enlight me cause I can't follow your line of questioning.

 

And ftr, when you ask me a pointed question such as "where's the scum motivation in that?" when I clearly say nothing about motivation of either spectrum inside the post it makes me think you are implying that I said what you did was scummy. I didn't. I wasn't even addressing you there - I was asking TG to clarify what he found legit about your posts. AND like I stated earlier, after he explained I came to realize he wasn't talking about the content (which there wasn't anything of) but the way in which you did where you pulled a quote at the beginning and then pulled a later quote addressing the same point by someone previously.

 

Personally, I don't find this kind of catch-up 'style' if you will indicative either way.

He has me in his reads list, but not in his WTL list at the bottom. I find it scummy that you didn’t notice I wasn’t in his summation at the bottom. Especially since you commented on other pieces of his post, and thought he and I were both scummy at the time. Would it not be a perfect situation to point out how he and I were connected? I feel it is unlikely that you missed that.

 

Distancing from your scum buddy because it looked like you were just tossing out a post about not liking his reads for the hell of it. You comment below his reads list that you are okay with the lead wagons, but say nothing about the fact that Len, you top scum read, has the other two lead wagons at the time on his scum lean list, or that he (as BFG mentioned) is voting for GF over me when you think I was the stronger scum candidate. If you preferred me, then why not ask Len to switch his vote?

 

Key, ftr, it's stuff like this that makes me go when I read it. I think to myself "Really? WTF is she talking about?" and that doesn't make me feel good about you. Maybe it's because you're targeting me and I'm obvious bias, but I legitimately can't follow your thinking here.

 

First bold: So you're saying that it's scummy of me to not try to reinforce a connection between you and confirmed scum? In this theory that you're cooking up that I'm scumbros with Len - wouldn't you think that's EXACTLY the kind of thing I'd be all over? Tbh, yeah, I didn't notice it. Why? Because I didn't take the list very serious. Plain and simple. I read the bit at the beginning about his essay and essentially said to myself "This is probably BS" and kept on chugging. Add to the fact that I asked him about ~5 hours previously for his reads before he finally posted it, I didn't feel like it was necessarily going to be gold. Knowing that he's scum now makes it even less so.

 

Also I never said I prefered your lynch over Len's. My vote was on him from the opening of D1 and throughout and I feel like I continually brought attention back to him, or at least reiterated my points. Whenever he posted I made commentary. I said that I found you sketchy and that I would be willing to lynch you in the event the thread took off in that direction. Len listing the other lead wagons as his scum reads means nothing imo because he's confirmed LLL and we can't really trust anything he says. I also don't do a lot of associative analysis D1 because frankly it's too soon. I could've swapped to you or Despot or even GF at anytime during EOD but nope - I stayed and got the scum lynched.

 

I also made some commentary about how Lenlo voting GF over you looks bad for you, but after reevaluating I saw that you and Despot were tied with Len at the time at 2 votes, making it a 3-way, so him following Hallia onto GF actually makes more sense as him trying to self-pres than avoid a scumbro imo because bringing another wagon up to 2 votes would give him a 1/4 chance of getting lynched compared to a 1/3.

 

Feel free to continue tinfoiling though.

 

AJ – I feel like your press to vote me came out of virtually nowhere. You went from thinking my “this time” looked weird to me being one of your lead people to lynch. I also don’t like your limited analysis of Len’s reads list. Also, your push on Len looks a lot to me like my push/bus on him last game.

 

You're so hung up on this. Tbh I didn't need much more of a reason to think you could be scum D1. I found that off, and then other people I were leaning town on (Clov/TG) were also making commentary about how you seemed strange. It was good enough for me.

 

Len's list is /confirmed as a pile of poopoo at this point so your stress over this is misguided. I didn't analyze it critically because after one glance I kind of dismissed it and I also was just getting up/getting ready for work. My comment about how it read ingenuine WAS my analysis. I had nothing more to add at that point because I was more focused on the DL wagons.

 

Your bus of Len last game is irrelevant to this game as I'll explain in the next quote.

 

If you're town then get your head screwed on straight because again, you're linked pretty heavily to scum in this situation but I would rather prevent you from getting okie-doked if it's just another coincidence. This is me giving you 'the benefit of the doubt' which you thought was so scummy of me earlier

 

In reality I'm just trying to play smartly.

 

Tinfoiling on me isn't going to gain you any favor though. I'm basically LOCK TOWN.

 

 

Key, were you Illuminati or goon last game?

I was Illuminati with des.

 

THIS is the reason I'm LOCK TOWN. Last game you and Despot bussing Len made PERFECT sense because he was the goon and you guys could claim as Mason partners. Not to mention you were both read across the board as Town and WNL D1 - Len flipping scum would've looked outstanding for the both of you and frankly I think you guys might've pulled off the victory had we not restarted.

 

In this case Lenlo has flipped Illuminati, which basically eliminates the advantage the Mafia had by being able to claim Masons together. Now the remaining two are in a sticky situation as to whether they claim together, or both try to say they are partnerless. The Seer, hypothetically by choosing correctly, could vet them.

 

There's no reason for me to bus one of my PRs on D1 even for 'town cred' which is extremely malleable at best. Being able to claim Masons is the biggest advantage the Mafia has in this game besides their NK and OTT comms (which is standard). I could see distancing as possible, maybe, but there's no reason for me - as Mafia - to basically ensure he died. There were opportunities I could've jumped on all over the course of EOD. It will just cause such a headache in the future especially as the pool gets smaller and claims come out in the open.

[Andrej]

Short list is somewhere in:

 

Dice

Despot/Key

Addi

Hallia

 

I have Despot/Key lumped together just for the way they've been going back and forth. Don't want to downright say it's not town/town as it could still be, but I think some resolution would be good between them. Perhaps it'll clear up later with some claims, etc.

 

Addi simply because she vanished after getting 'pressure' from Clov. If Dice is scum that probably clears her though.

 

BFG

GF

Clov

Yates

TG

 

All likely town imo. The only one I might have some reservations towards atm is Yates because of his vote being on Key despite voicing support for other EOD wagons. It all worked out in the end, but having his vote there all D1 when the reasoning was mostly a 'joke' I find kind of sketchy.

 

Clov is extreme tinfoil territory that only applies if I think he's pulling like double reverse psychology maneuvers on me. Clov questioning me could have been a tactic to make me think he'd never do that as a wolf considering how easily we read each other last game. Which is exactly what scum!Clov would want me to think, etc. Like I said - extreme conspiracy theory type stuff. If Despot is scum Clov is clear imo.

[Andrej]

Let me reformat that, actually.

 

Short list:

 

Dice

Key/Despot

Addi

Hallia

Yates

 

Town:

 

TG

BFG

GF

Clov

 

That's better.

[Yates]

That's better.

No. It's WORSE!

 

BFG

GF

Clov

Yates

TG

I like these guys! They are funny guys!

[Andrej]

PC is in ~45 minutes, right?

 

Yates you'd likely be last on my scum list atm, but you're still there just because I don't feel like I can trust you yet.

[Yates]

I don't feel like I can trust you yet

Are gringos falling from the sky???

[Andrej]

Probably.

 

What are your reads Yates?

 

FTR - now that one Illuminati is dead the Mafia are in a tight spot. Everyone should consider claiming once Day starts.

 

If we have 6 Mason claims, we know one of the pairs is fraud.

 

If we have 6 VT claims we know that 2 of them are fraud plus it'll clear the 4 actual Masons.

 

Depending on which if these circumstances happens should dictate where the lynch goes D2.

[Andrej]

Well it'll technically be 7 VT claims counting the Seer. I omitted them in my first post cause they'd know they weren't in that grouping.

[Yates]

What are your reads Yates?

 

 

BFG

GF

Clov

Yates

TG

I like these guys! They are funny guys!

 

[Andrej]

Format fail.

 

What about your scum?

[Yates]

There's certainly scum in Key/Dice.

 

Hally and GF are impossible to read. GF is almost certainly Town. If not, he's the other Illuminati. Which actually, now that I think about it, gives Key a little more Town credit unless she's also Illuminati.

 

Kid gloves may need to come off with Addi on N2 or D3.

[Andrej]

Write up should be soon.

 

Gun to my head lynch Dice tomorrow.

 

GLGLGL

[Andrej]

Also fwiw, if this game starts to drag out to F5 or F3 THEN consider lynching people from the Lenlo wagon.

 

Until then, they should be looked at as more or less confirmed townies.

[dicetosser1]

aj lynching me is lynching town. Yates should already know why.

[Andrej]

I guess we'll see then.

 

@Yates - any idea what he's talking about?

 

What are your reads currently Dice?

[Yates]

No? Am I missing something, Dice?

[Yates]

I think he's talking about this post:

 

 

THIS ENTIRE POST

Two thumbs up.

 

Would read again.

 

Scum lean- Dice, Key

Only after GF voted Key to put her in the lead did Dice move to GF to also put him at 3. THIS does look bad however.

So I'm in a pickle. I feel like Lenlo scum spewed either Dice or Key. Possibly both. I seem to recall Lenlo including scum team mates in his scum "reads" in the past as scum. Can anyone fact check me on this assertion?

 

 

i dunno about len  in other games, but do you wanna guess what im gonna do come D2 morning? heres a hint. you have seen it before.

 

[Andrej]

Still tells me nothing.