[Standard] Cory vs. Bad Dietary Habits & Laziness Mafia, Mafia Sweep

[keyholder21]

Just got here after a meeting. Looks like things have calmed down, but in case anyone is still worked up:

 

 

Step away, take a breath, and then feel free to come back to the thread and have a good time.  
 

[Tommyrod]

Darthe I would really appreciate a full reads list from you

And soon. Things are happening. Gears are turning.

[Yates]

Krak EOD

 

His EOD really has to start at 2:02 PM [6 hours until deadline] with this post:

How close is deadline?

Go look at his ISO prior to this post. There is NOTHING game related other than "That's the Des I like to see." Which was MARGINALLY game related. Everything else is commenting on something outside the game, saying he is catching up, or saying he has food poisoning. [Which sucks, btw. My mom poisoned 1/2 our family one Christmas Eve! Hope you feel better.]

 

His next post was 1 1/2 hours later when he responds to Slendy's Vos case with "FWIW in my experience Vos scum telling is a town tell."

 

I'm trying figure out if this as alignment indicative as AJ seems to indicate in his game summary. Ultimately, I think it would be conf bias to assume this was a distancing post - though I wouldn't be surprised if it was one either. Also, 5 1/2 hours to deadline and still no vote.

 

Post 1517 is the first place I see Krak taking a stand on someone - IT - and presumably lead to his vote of the IT slot in post 540. This was the official VC at the time:

Official Vote Count:

 

Arsis (5) – manbat , dice, Pral, Darthe, Halligeddon

TI (2) –  GleMeri, Arsis

SickPuppets (1) - Yates

Nervositee (5) - Des, Tomstress, TheSlenderMan, AJ, TI

 

Not Voting (4): everyone else

 

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch!

 

Deadline: Thursday, 9pm EST.

 

He could have jumped on Arsis or he could have jumped on Vos - both had 5 votes at the time. I'd really need to hear from Krak about what was going on in his head at this point but in retrospect this doesn't look great. If Krak is scum, he was pretty clearly trying to NOT be the momentum vote on what would have likely been a Town mislynch. To his credit, he was on record as kind of sort of leaning towards Vos!Town if you want to read in to his Vos defense post. And he did reconfirm this in thread in post 1763 at about 20 minutes to deadline. At least he was consistent? I never saw him clear Arsis, though. So I'm not sure what was up there.

 

This is Krak's Towniest post of the game:

Usually Tom switching votes with little reason so close to deadline doesn't bother me, but trying for a CFD on Pral without dropping a solid reason right away doesn't sit well with me right now.

It's irrelevant whether I agree with the conclusion or not but I can at least see this coming from a Town frame of mind. I'd also have to look back and see [not likely to happen] or simply ask the thread if you guys remember Krak being willing to stick his neck out as scum and attack a consensus Town leader like he did with Tommy here. Anybody?

 

Krak's backing down in this spoilered post pretty much negates any of the Town points he earned with me above, though.

 

 

Usually Tom switching votes with little reason so close to deadline doesn't bother me, but trying for a CFD on Pral without dropping a solid reason right away doesn't sit well with me right now.

I take extra offense to this because my starting a CFD doesn't make sense for a scum play with 3 nearly-tied wagons to choose from. Unless you're gonna say they're all scum with me?

 

 

 

It sticks with your meta, but I just don't see a CFD on Pral flying here, especially with the way everyone is dithering and by not offering a solid reason to CFD with that post, regardless of whether or not you've commented on him in the past.  Maybe it's not a wolf play, but it's a bad play imo.

 

 

 

He drops his vote on IT at 9:00 PM on the nose in post 1843.

 

I am generally leery of people that ignore the thread for the entire game day only to show up an hour or less before lynch just to drop a vote. We had DAYS of activity where he literally contributed nothing of game related value. This certainly colors my perception on potential motivation during EOD.

 

There's no smoking gun but I'm not feeling great about Krak Town. I'd love to see him come in here happy, healthy, and with a bit of WiM and Town tell like a boss. He is capable of some excellent play and analysis. I just don't see that happening and it's ultimately going to lead to his lynch.

[Yates]

Darthe ITT gettin heat?

Darthe - would you please respond to post 2116? I did you first. Krak got sloppy seconds.

[Tommyrod]

Krak's WIM was the highest I've ever seen it in Woodstock; he consistently made good points and was sharp. Not so much here. Waiting for the sharpness to manifest.

[Arsis]

Krak EOD

 

His EOD really has to start at 2:02 PM [6 hours until deadline] with this post:

How close is deadline?

Go look at his ISO prior to this post. There is NOTHING game related other than "That's the Des I like to see." Which was MARGINALLY game related. Everything else is commenting on something outside the game, saying he is catching up, or saying he has food poisoning. [Which sucks, btw. My mom poisoned 1/2 our family one Christmas Eve! Hope you feel better.]

 

His next post was 1 1/2 hours later when he responds to Slendy's Vos case with "FWIW in my experience Vos scum telling is a town tell."

 

I'm trying figure out if this as alignment indicative as AJ seems to indicate in his game summary. Ultimately, I think it would be conf bias to assume this was a distancing post - though I wouldn't be surprised if it was one either. Also, 5 1/2 hours to deadline and still no vote.

 

Post 1517 is the first place I see Krak taking a stand on someone - IT - and presumably lead to his vote of the IT slot in post 540. This was the official VC at the time:

Official Vote Count:

 

Arsis (5) – manbat , dice, Pral, Darthe, Halligeddon

TI (2) – GleMeri, Arsis

SickPuppets (1) - Yates

Nervositee (5) - Des, Tomstress, TheSlenderMan, AJ, TI

 

Not Voting (4): everyone else

 

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch!

 

Deadline: Thursday, 9pm EST.

 

He could have jumped on Arsis or he could have jumped on Vos - both had 5 votes at the time. I'd really need to hear from Krak about what was going on in his head at this point but in retrospect this doesn't look great. If Krak is scum, he was pretty clearly trying to NOT be the momentum vote on what would have likely been a Town mislynch. To his credit, he was on record as kind of sort of leaning towards Vos!Town if you want to read in to his Vos defense post. And he did reconfirm this in thread in post 1763 at about 20 minutes to deadline. At least he was consistent? I never saw him clear Arsis, though. So I'm not sure what was up there.

 

This is Krak's Towniest post of the game:

Usually Tom switching votes with little reason so close to deadline doesn't bother me, but trying for a CFD on Pral without dropping a solid reason right away doesn't sit well with me right now.

It's irrelevant whether I agree with the conclusion or not but I can at least see this coming from a Town frame of mind. I'd also have to look back and see [not likely to happen] or simply ask the thread if you guys remember Krak being willing to stick his neck out as scum and attack a consensus Town leader like he did with Tommy here. Anybody?

 

Krak's backing down in this spoilered post pretty much negates any of the Town points he earned with me above, though.

 

 

Usually Tom switching votes with little reason so close to deadline doesn't bother me, but trying for a CFD on Pral without dropping a solid reason right away doesn't sit well with me right now.

I take extra offense to this because my starting a CFD doesn't make sense for a scum play with 3 nearly-tied wagons to choose from. Unless you're gonna say they're all scum with me?

 

It sticks with your meta, but I just don't see a CFD on Pral flying here, especially with the way everyone is dithering and by not offering a solid reason to CFD with that post, regardless of whether or not you've commented on him in the past. Maybe it's not a wolf play, but it's a bad play imo.

 

 

He drops his vote on IT at 9:00 PM on the nose in post 1843.

 

I am generally leery of people that ignore the thread for the entire game day only to show up an hour or less before lynch just to drop a vote. We had DAYS of activity where he literally contributed nothing of game related value. This certainly colors my perception on potential motivation during EOD.

 

There's no smoking gun but I'm not feeling great about Krak Town. I'd love to see him come in here happy, healthy, and with a bit of WiM and Town tell like a boss. He is capable of some excellent play and analysis. I just don't see that happening and it's ultimately going to lead to his lynch.

I said the same exact thing at the time. I didn't like it at all.

[Darthe]

8. manbat - Clean posts, good train of thought, active and interested enough that I trust the slot which says a lot in mafia

4. Andrej - Just yeah.  Quick note that AJ gets psuedo-confirmed if Des is mafia since Des spewed him with his "AJ r scum" then the wagon falling through and Des saying "Wanted to see who bit bro, u townn"

15. dicetosser1 - Soulread.  The only way he could fool me this game would be if he had someone really impressive on his team like one of the light greens and they were helping encourage him to post and structure himself better etc.

3. TomStress [Tommyrod / Songstress] - Can't ever trust either of you fully or you'd be dark green.  Sorry. 

2. Yates - Read the above.  Also sorta odd how you're presenting yourself to the group this game.  I associate you as scum with playing cleaner games so it's prob just paranoia.

17. Despothera - One of my personal tells for Desscum is that he waffles on my alignment instead of nailing it down but it isn't a great tell.  Still, enough to get him here instead of dark green where he should be.  I also have him as the most likely teammate for Dicescum but if that's the case then I surrender.

6. SickPuppets - Looks good, really had a good early game mindmeld but nothing of late is sticking out to me.

14. TheSlenderMan - Slendy and SP are a good deal above Krak in terms of read strength.  I think both could be light green, just am not sure.

7. Krakalakachkn - Gut

16. GleMeri [TGlems / Meridian] - Gut 2.0

12. TI [Turin Turambar / Ithillian] - Turin has the ability to drop amazing town tells in scum posts and Ithi (who I can read better) is absent.  Seriously beware of Turin tricking everyone all game.

11. Torrey_Smith's_Brother - Who are you and why are you here?

13. Pralaya - Probably eats toast without jam for breakfast.  What more need I say?

1. Halligeddon [Hallia / csarmi] - Salami is off, Hally is trying to tug at the heartstrings of America, both look frazzled.  Could be sickness but I dislike a lot of what they are doing to this thread.

5. Arsis - Playing like scum on a leash imo.  Interested in seeing this lynch go through and if he is town that will really affect my reads, especially making some of the safer, cleaner players in this game more prominent.  I think Arsis will flip scum based on his tone, his approach to the thread and his interest in survival over all but either way this lynch is going to be critical IMO.

 

 

Greens are certain as I can be, which is to say don't ever lynch them.

Light Greens are people who would be greens if not for a few little things they said or my innate distrust of them because of known scum wizardry.  

Blues are people who I don't have much of a read on but still kinda think them town.

Orange is for muddled reads/inactives.  

Red is for deceit and betrayal.  Notably I don't think that Salami and Arsis can be scum together.  I am aware that my reads are flawed and that there is probable scum in my higher categories but both of them are starting off points for me.  Each subcategory is thus organized into least-most likely to be scum as well as the overall going from least-most likely.  

[Darthe]

Darthe's EOD Analysis

 

8:54 PM

[v] Salami [/v] on the off chance you're town you were a waste of your slot.  Bye.

8:59 PM

I mean it wholeheartedly Salami.  Refusing to claim at DL is refusing the town power and options.  You're literally withholding info to be a stubborn arse.  Go die now.

Csarmi says he is "LOCK GRUMPY"

 

9:00 PM on the deadline bubble:

[unvote][v]vos[/v]

Possible background - he showed up 40 minutes until deadline. This post is either an excuse or relevant:

 

 

Also salami getting defensive as hell on this page is generally more derptown than aggroscum from him. Someone needs to logically assess him with that in mind.

Can you assess Salami in the next 15 minutes?

 

no I'm driving home

 

I have a meeting in ~6 minutes but I wanted to get this on thread for consideration. I'll finish the EOD stuff for other people catching heat in a bit.

 

Okay I am looking at this Yates and I don't see what you want me to respond to.  Maybe explain my order of events?

 

I got off work at roughly 8:15 (a bit early for me) and was headed home skimming through the thread a bit since I knew EOD was coming up.  The kid I work with likes to listen to music on my phone so I had roughly 10% battery left and I always call my parents when I am heading home from work (A drive of about 25 minutes).  I got on here, saw a bit of grumbling about Tommy/Salami being thick on thread/lots of EOD CFD's led by someone that isn't as universally trusted this game as normal yet were still working (referring to Tommy here) so I made a statement about that which I think either Slendy or Puppets quoted.  I then mentioned Salami was potentially town based on his EOD behavior and I think that is when I disappeared.  It was some time around then.  In any case somewhere through there I was gone for a bit.  I got home, took out trash etc and returned with just a couple of minutes to DL.  Skimmed through, reacted to the thread, realized at 9 that salami wasn't just saying that he needed sleep and managed to type out a vote change all within a minute.  

 

So that was how EoD went for me.  Does it answer your.... statements?

[Tommyrod]

12. TI [Turin Turambar / Ithillian] - Turin has the ability to drop amazing town tells in scum posts and Ithi (who I can read better) is absent. Seriously beware of Turin tricking everyone all game.

 

This could make him a good lynch tomorrow then.

[TheSlenderMan]

On the road now, two brief things I want to get out ITT:

 

1) I agree with the sentiment that #solving Arsis solves a LOT of things and gives us huuuge amounts of info: so that's where my main focus will be once I get settled. (Some chance of me having very little time for this Round tonight, but we'll see about that later.)

 

2) Darthe elaborate on your read on me pls. Give me a full train-of-thought to see.

 

Also 3) AJ is Town here.

[Krakalakachkn]

Who wants to guess who dies on N1

  

 

No. Not a good look right now.

 

 

@Yates, my guess would be bias. AJ stated he already had Tommy and Despo as town so attributes their votes as being on a town mindset. He had me as mafia so my action gets treated differently.

I don't think there's any way for me to say this without it sounding snarky so I'm just going to say it and ask you to take it at face value:That question was directed specifically at AJ. I'd really like for AJ to answer first before anyone else weighs in on what HIS motivation might be.Know what I mean? Now if he says the same thing as you I don't know if it's coming from him or if it influenced by what you just said.So while I mean that about this question specifically, I would also encourage you [the collective you ALL] to consider this before answering a question aimed at another person in the game [unless it's something innocuous that can be fact checked - like "when did that happen?"].

Yeah that was kinda wolfy from Turin. Even if he thought it was kinda 'duh,' answering for other players denies that player the chance to give a 100% uninflected response, it creates the question you brought up, and it has the potential to reflect well or bad on the person who sniped the response when they shouldn't have had anything to do with it.

[Tommyrod]

Kinda wondering if Krak's plan is to push me and then night kill me and get clear because mafia wouldn't bother pushing me or something dorky like that.

[Yates]

So that was how EoD went for me.  Does it answer your.... statements?

I guess on a grander scale I really want to know why you didn't put much effort into this game until roughly 40 minutes before deadline? Kind of like with Krak - I start to wonder about the people that are game absent then show up just before deadline to drop a vote or influence some wagons at the last second. It makes me feel like you didn't want to post earlier because you wanted to hide? Not get caught in a lie? Not be forced to make an opinion?

 

I don't know. That play just ALWAYS bothers me. You are being scum read for it so I suspect I'm not the only one feeling this.

[Tommyrod]

I agree with you about people being absent and appearing being more suspect in a vacuum, Yates. I'm town reading Darthe though. He has some quirky mannerisms as town, a sort of ridiculous bluster and capacity for wild theories that I haven't seen him successfully fold into his scum game (yet).

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

 

Krak EOD

His EOD really has to start at 2:02 PM [6 hours until deadline] with this post:

 

 

How close is deadline?

Go look at his ISO prior to this post. There is NOTHING game related other than "That's the Des I like to see." Which was MARGINALLY game related. Everything else is commenting on something outside the game, saying he is catching up, or saying he has food poisoning. [Which sucks, btw. My mom poisoned 1/2 our family one Christmas Eve! Hope you feel better.]

His next post was 1 1/2 hours later when he responds to Slendy's Vos case with "FWIW in my experience Vos scum telling is a town tell."

I'm trying figure out if this as alignment indicative as AJ seems to indicate in his game summary. Ultimately, I think it would be conf bias to assume this was a distancing post - though I wouldn't be surprised if it was one either. Also, 5 1/2 hours to deadline and still no vote.Post 1517 is the first place I see Krak taking a stand on someone - IT - and presumably lead to his vote of the IT slot in post 540. This was the official VC at the time:

Official Vote Count:

Arsis (5) – manbat , dice, Pral, Darthe, Halligeddon

TI (2) – GleMeri, Arsis

SickPuppets (1) - Yates

Nervositee (5) - Des, Tomstress, TheSlenderMan, AJ, TI

Not Voting (4): everyone elseWith 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch!Deadline: Thursday, 9pm EST.

 

He could have jumped on Arsis or he could have jumped on Vos - both had 5 votes at the time. I'd really need to hear from Krak about what was going on in his head at this point but in retrospect this doesn't look great. If Krak is scum, he was pretty clearly trying to NOT be the momentum vote on what would have likely been a Town mislynch. To his credit, he was on record as kind of sort of leaning towards Vos!Town if you want to read in to his Vos defense post. And he did reconfirm this in thread in post 1763 at about 20 minutes to deadline. At least he was consistent? I never saw him clear Arsis, though. So I'm not sure what was up there.

This is Krak's Towniest post of the game:

Usually Tom switching votes with little reason so close to deadline doesn't bother me, but trying for a CFD on Pral without dropping a solid reason right away doesn't sit well with me right now.

It's irrelevant whether I agree with the conclusion or not but I can at least see this coming from a Town frame of mind. I'd also have to look back and see [not likely to happen] or simply ask the thread if you guys remember Krak being willing to stick his neck out as scum and attack a consensus Town leader like he did with Tommy here. Anybody?

Krak's backing down in this spoilered post pretty much negates any of the Town points he earned with me above, though.

 

 

 

 

 

Usually Tom switching votes with little reason so close to deadline doesn't bother me, but trying for a CFD on Pral without dropping a solid reason right away doesn't sit well with me right now.

I take extra offense to this because my starting a CFD doesn't make sense for a scum play with 3 nearly-tied wagons to choose from. Unless you're gonna say they're all scum with me?

It sticks with your meta, but I just don't see a CFD on Pral flying here, especially with the way everyone is dithering and by not offering a solid reason to CFD with that post, regardless of whether or not you've commented on him in the past. Maybe it's not a wolf play, but it's a bad play imo.

 

He drops his vote on IT at 9:00 PM on the nose in post 1843. I am generally leery of people that ignore the thread for the entire game day only to show up an hour or less before lynch just to drop a vote. We had DAYS of activity where he literally contributed nothing of game related value. This certainly colors my perception on potential motivation during EOD.

There's no smoking gun but I'm not feeling great about Krak Town. I'd love to see him come in here happy, healthy, and with a bit of WiM and Town tell like a boss. He is capable of some excellent play and analysis. I just don't see that happening and it's ultimately going to lead to his lynch.

I said the same exact thing at the time. I didn't like it at all.

In response to the show in up at EoD, well no ones gonna like it, but that's just how it worked out. I was reading up and figured I'd ask to see how mich time to deadline. That got me involved during my reread although I didn't feel I had a good grasp on who I should have been voting for until the end there.

 

 

I stuck my neck out for Vos because I thought I had a good read on his meta. Turns out I was partly off, but still I know exactly why Slender thought Vos was scum because he's hard to read as town for the most part. The second option was Arsis but he seemed to be trying to pick a fight with me for reasons I couldn't comprehend all while he was the leading train. I think he was town telling there - that's a pretty bold move as scum and the way he is keepin at me makes sense imo. Turillian's whole miller debate was foolish and looked like scum caught in a bush - Turin having to backtrack and act like he was playing along with Ithi. Des made a good case catching them in a blatant misrep and that was enough for my vote.

[Tommyrod]

Here's how to read Darthe:

 

If Darthe is posting as the one sitting in the psychiatrist's chair, notepad in hand and a judgmental eye, he's town.

 

If Darthe is posting as the patient on the couch, afraid to open up and be understood by the doctor, he's scum.

[Yates]

Krak's most recent post looks pretty Town. I like the response. It reads as genuine and unrustled. I'd like to see him come up with some ideas/reads/theories on his own and post them.

[Tommyrod]

There's an inherent cockiness to his town game that shows up in his posting. I see it ITG.

[Tommyrod]

Krak's most recent post looks pretty Town. I like the response. It reads as genuine and unrustled. I'd like to see him come up with some ideas/reads/theories on his own and post them.

The bit about Arsis's motivation is the best part. The rest is meh.

[TheSlenderMan]

Krak you're implying my read on Vos was incorrect when it actually was correct and you even admit this wrt to your own read on him.

 

Much more likely that you've simply been White Knighting him.

[TheSlenderMan]

I feel like when that last post is compared with Krak's earlier ones, it's revealed that he just had to think of some reasoning here retrospectively and came up with that now but never any sooner.

[Krakalakachkn]

Kinda wondering if Krak's plan is to push me and then night kill me and get clear because mafia wouldn't bother pushing me or something dorky like that.

 

Your night chatter isn't helping town. If you're alive tomorrow and think I'm scum, use your vote. Otherwise quit throwing these kind of ideas onto the thread.

[csarmi]

Krak you're implying my read on Vos was incorrect when it actually was correct and you even admit this wrt to your own read on him.

 

Much more likely that you've simply been White Knighting him.

White knighting or not, he was correct regarding Vos' meta. Just FYI.

[Tommyrod]

 

Kinda wondering if Krak's plan is to push me and then night kill me and get clear because mafia wouldn't bother pushing me or something dorky like that.

Your night chatter isn't helping town. If you're alive tomorrow and think I'm scum, use your vote. Otherwise quit throwing these kind of ideas onto the thread.

Townish post. I think. You town?

[Krakalakachkn]

Krak you're implying my read on Vos was incorrect when it actually was correct and you even admit this wrt to your own read on him.

 

Much more likely that you've simply been White Knighting him.

What I said was I thought you were wrong because I knew exactly where you were coming from regarding his meta. And yeah, you were more right than I was.