[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Andrej]

With that, I must now go learn about sociology

 

Still cool with the Red wagon.

 

If nobody wants to lynch the claimed PR then I say we string up Yates. He's a VT anyway, right? lol

[Tommyrod]

With that, I must now go learn about sociology

 

Still cool with the Red wagon.

 

If nobody wants to lynch the claimed PR then I say we string up Yates. He's a VT anyway, right? lol

??

[Darthe]

Official Bloody Vote Count:

Nol (1/10): Halleeloujah

Verbalina (1/10): Len

Crayjay (1/10): Dice

Yates (2/10): Verbalina, Krak

Mistress (4/10): Mynd, NyanCat, MegaLoud, Desbat

Tommy (1/10): Red

Red (5/10): CrayJay, Dawn, Nol, Tommy, Yates

Desbat (1/10): Mistress

 

Not Voting (3/19):

X, Jack, Zen

 

45 Hours Remaining

[Yates]

 

And did you generate a bunch of useless posts to "investigate" the claim? No. Why not?

Not worth the distraction that it's now providing.

 

Exactly. Which is my point circa 1776. It's a distraction so why pursue it in the first place...

 

However, being auto-cleared through this claim is absurd

Agreed. Did I ever claim to be any amount of clear [never mind AUTO clear]? Nope. My focus has been entirely on Red's motivation. And her motivation has been - well - poorly expressed.

[Yates]

i just dont like quick reveals and find them to be note worthy.

So... revealing at L-5 is perfectly acceptable in your world? And revealing a supposed TOWN POWER ROLE at L-5 makes way more sense??

[Red2111]

Just wanna say that I am going to enjoy this game immensely. Now onto MQs:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

how were these replys bad timing?  they were like a few posts after the post i was responding to.  are you expecting me to be some mind reading Jedi and respond to scummy posts before their made?  do i look like Marty mcFly with a time machine?

 

as for Mish, its called Multi-tasking.  she had enough pressure from others that me pointing out the scumm post was enough pressure from me for the time.  

 

and who said my vote on Tom was a joke *raises eyebrow*  there is a character in this series called "The Goat" and his is most assuredly scum in any ASoF&I game his in.  anyone claiming to be that character is scum imo and is auto-lynch.  unless you want to aruge that the Goat is some anti-hero like snape, in which case i'd argue that Joff had more chance of being a good guy that the Goat does.

 

You are missing the points I was making. Mynd comes in and immediately calls down on Mish for her post. I find how you immediately turn your attention to Tom after this sequence was badly timed. IE: you were shifting the focus away from Mish and towards Tom for something insignificant. It's called Chainsaw Defense. This idea was further reinforced when you made that post above with the meme in it calling Mish scum but continue keeping your vote on Tom for something that should be at the very least 100% null, especially now that it has been explained SEVERAL times what it really means and why he was saying it. This is called Distancing.

 

 

Who are you going to vote for?

 

currently i'm voting for you.  it interesting seeing how AJ came to your defense and others latchign onto his assumption that my vote was a joke.  its also fun watchign you squirm with a single vote on you. 

 

i may just leave it for shits and grins

 

Just all around terrible. For one, I didn't assume your vote was a joke. I said the tone of it was jokey, which bothered me, considering the seriousness of Mynd's post a few before there where he was legitimately casing someone and then you turned attention to Tom.

 

So you're saying you are going to leave your vote on Tom although it has been explained what the meaning of GOAT was? Even though you think Mish could be mafia based on the post YOU made as well as other people's arguments against her?

 

 

red - my style is similar to Mynd's, theres nothing i could do more than echo and parrot what Mynd is saying and doing.  Mynds a big boy, his cases and pressure on someone can stand on their own and i'm not really keen to be budding up to him when i dont know his alignement.

 

i showed my support to her being called out by pointing out what i found scummy and why.  that was suffecient enough.

 

theres no reason why we shoudl focus on one person, so instead of just having one case out there, i went looking elsewhere.  do you have a problem with multiple cases and trains goign at once?  this game is big enough that we shoudl have 3 or 4 trains goign at once imo.

 

blue - you out right called my vote on him a joke AJ.  your arguing semantics and splitting straws trying to say calling my vote reason jokey wasn't callign it a joke vote.  if you belive the reason behind a vote was jokey, you're calling the vote a joke vote.

 

Mynds post wasn't serious.  he was tryign to reactions.  you've obviously never played with Mynd or you'd knwo his style.  tbh, he wasn't even digging at Mish in that post, he was seeing how others would react.  Mish's reaction was scummy so it was a double bonus reaction wise.  but this is typical mydn style.    where do you think i learned it from *grins at mynd*

 

 

 

1. Explain to me how you think you would be buddying Mynd by agreeing with his case. Through extension, aren't we all buddying to achieve majority? If you thought his case was compelling, why not follow it?

 

2. Your support was lacking with no vote to follow it, that's my point. You can still spread pressure and look in other directions while voting someone that you believe to be mafia.

 

3. Joke vote or not, it was still badly justified and timed. Firstly, if it were a joke I don't see why you would make it at that time considering the game was actually beginning to pick up. Secondly, if it were a serious vote, why would you believe someone would openly claim scum on thread? In the end it would turn into a big case of WIFOM, and not one I would find necessarily compelling to lynch over. I think you'd have a hard time getting 9 others to vote with you for something that Tom and others do on a regular basis (I am allowing a little leeway here because I don't expect you knew that prior to this). In essence you would be wasting your vote.

 

4. How do you know Mynd's post wasn't serious? I believe it was you earlier who said you take things on thread at face value, so why are you now applying assumptions to Mynd's intent with his casing and vote on Mish? Furthermore, you're also assuming that I have never played with Mynd. He and I got quite intimate in our most recent game together (which is still ongoing currently)

 

 

 

the vote itself and the reactions to the vote are independent.  the defense of tom started before i had a chance to explain my vote as people saw AJ calling it a joke vote and assumed thats what it was.

 

as for not voting Mish, a few reasons.

 

- reactions i'm getting from my current vote

-  deadline is far enough off, so no real reason to move my vote imo. 

- moving my vote would be seen more like trying to cover my ass than apply pressure on Mish,

- we need more than just two trains and two cases (if you could call the case agaisnt me a case) going on, i'd really like to see a third train tbh and a few more cases.

 

but i get your point womby and heres a question for you.  why do you still have your vote on me considering your intital vote was a reaction test?   (n/m i sa where you changed yer vote,  yay for the vote thingy deciding to work today.  )why aren't you also casing Mish and others?  why are you defending Dawn?   

 

Tbh, I really don't care who you voted for or for what reasons. My main point was how you immediately started a counter wagon to Mish's once Mynd made what I thought was a pretty good point. The fact that you voted Tom over something completely null is just icing on the cake. You see?

 

2nd bold: Interesting that you'd be more concerned about this than lynching someone you called mafia earlier. Do you think Mish is likely scum, yes or no?

 

 

 

green -

 

1. i never said i thought his case on Mish was compelling, infact i responded to his case with this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Misused memes *shudder*

 

 

Much easier to look over 12 pages of jokes right before bedtime, than serious game.

 

Seriously though....why did you have to explain your apparent "joke post"?  It has been my experience that mafia tend to OVER-explain things, including why they are posting some random picture that kinda-sorta has to do with the Red Wedding.  Its like you are ready to jump on a bandwagon but there are no bandwagons to jump on yet.

 

Misheru = Scum

 

 

 

here ya go Mynd, got this for you

 

 

 

 

 

which is a running joke about Mynd liking to "beat the grass to startle the snakes".  its his Meta, has been for many years and he rocks at doing it.

 

as for why people would acuse me of budying up to him (or team work on lynching Mish if she flips town)  because we both started going after her for the same things at the same time.

 

add in the below interaction and the building for framing on linkage is there.  Mynd is more than capable os appling pressure on people, more capable than myself and my style is simlar (albeit not near as good) as his.  i felt it best to seperate myself from Mynd being Mynd, so that i didn't get linked to him or framed by him (depending on his alignment)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Red, guess what?  Misheru thinks you and I are pressuring her now.    We are being too aggressive.  We should calm down.  

 

 

 

 too agressive?  us ...  never

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. you dont always need to vote someone to pressure them.  nor do you need to vote someone to case them.  and you dont need to vote someone to support the pressure your putting on a person.  pressure is used to figure stuff out in thte game, voting is because you think someone is scum. and townies are known to do scummy things, the only thing i had made up in my mind was that Mish's post was scummy, i didn't have enough information yet to make a call on if i thought she was scumm town or scummy mafia.

 

 

3. mutliple trains are a good thing, so i dont get why the timing of my vote matter all that much in this instance.  and one vote hardly constitutes as a wagon, both Tom and Mish had one vote at that point.  the only reason people are claiming its a distraction is because so little game wise has happened.  we have a 30 page game and 20 pages of it are spam.  how is my  single vote any more of a distraction that the "Lucid Dreaming" convo that happened in the middle of the Mish pressure?  if you're so caught up in people distracting from Mish, why pull some pressure on peopel who haven't said anythign abotu the Mish case or are discussing things other than the Mish case?  as for "its what they normally do" meta is a sorry excuse to ignore things and allows for scum to use their meta to hide under.  i dont buy the meta defense.

 

 

4. as to why i claim he wasn't being serious in his initial case on Mish. as i said, its his typical meta and then there is the 2nd interaction i spoiler tagged.  that post from Mynd said to me "Yeah your right in what your asuming by giving me a bigger stick".  

 

 

purple - oh so we can only have one train and one scum hunting pressure case goign on at a time.  we can't multi-wask in this game with mutiple people being pressureed atthe same time and multiple trains *nods* got it *eyeroll*

 

 

purple 2nd bolded - yeah its a damned it you do, damned if you dont scenario i'm in.  i had pressure on me already, why make a move that woudl just add more pressure? 

 

 

 

Your claim, on the other hand, is a patented fake claim for scum.  Based on your actions and the way you claim to scum hunt, I don't see how you possibly think your play justifies the actions of someone that received a BG role.

 

Confirm:

##Vote: Red2111

 

 

so now you commit the role fishing you accused me of.

 

and you dont know my well enough to make assumptions, i dont let roles hamper my play style.  i'm an agressive player whose not afraid to be in the spot light and is often in the heat of most battles in these games.  atleast this way, when i get lynched or NKd i give the town lots of info with my death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some townies think lying on thread is doing town a good service by confusing the mafia, but usually it only lends to other townies being mistrustful of them. I personally am not a huge fan of town gambits, and have learned through personal experience from both seeing and doing them myself that they tend to backfire more often than not.

Who says I'm lying or gambiting? I've been pretty clear about my role, I think. I did present some scenarios in which Town *might* lie - but only to illustrate that the minuses of pursuing said line of questioning has more potential disadvantages than advantages. Point remaining, it's pretty scummy to choose that particular bone to chew on.

 

 

you know, you're a bit touchy about people doubting your claim.  is it because it struck a nerve with you to actually have someone question it?

 

are you asserting that if we find somethign doubtful in the game we shouldn't question it?

[Red2111]

 

i just dont like quick reveals and find them to be note worthy.

So... revealing at L-5 is perfectly acceptable in your world? And revealing a supposed TOWN POWER ROLE at L-5 makes way more sense??

 

 

 

half way to being lynched, being the person with the most pressure on them currently and 45 hrs until the deadline.  thats by no means a quick reveal. 

[Yates]

 

 

Some townies think lying on thread is doing town a good service by confusing the mafia, but usually it only lends to other townies being mistrustful of them. I personally am not a huge fan of town gambits, and have learned through personal experience from both seeing and doing them myself that they tend to backfire more often than not.

Who says I'm lying or gambiting? I've been pretty clear about my role, I think. I did present some scenarios in which Town *might* lie - but only to illustrate that the minuses of pursuing said line of questioning has more potential disadvantages than advantages. Point remaining, it's pretty scummy to choose that particular bone to chew on.

 

 

you know, you're a bit touchy about people doubting your claim.  is it because it struck a nerve with you to actually have someone question it?

 

AJ says [in general] townies lying is bad. How is that "doubting my claim?" Also, do you see me defending myself against anyone "doubting my claim?" I think that's normal. What isn't normal is this amount of discussion on the matter - as has been discussed ad nauseam.

[Yates]

half way to being lynched, being the person with the most pressure on them currently and 45 hrs until the deadline.  thats by no means a quick reveal.

1/2 way to being lynched in a game that requires TEN votes = L-5. And yes, that's a quick reveal. If you were an actual Town power role, you would understand how your early reveal is detrimental to a Town win condition.

[Red2111]

 

half way to being lynched, being the person with the most pressure on them currently and 45 hrs until the deadline.  thats by no means a quick reveal.

1/2 way to being lynched in a game that requires TEN votes = L-5. And yes, that's a quick reveal. If you were an actual Town power role, you would understand how your early reveal is detrimental to a Town win condition.

 

 

bold - glad to see you have basic arithmatic down

 

the iorny of being lectured on the proper time to reveal by a person who revealed with 1 vote and 1 day into the game is almost too much XD

 

to the underline - i am a town BG.  Jon Umber was part of Robb Starks personal gaurd and directly defended him during the Red Wedding. 

 

it was either wait to claim and have it possibly too late for any other lynch or claim early enough for people to get on and switch their vote.  woudl you rather me have been lynch and lose the BG role or me claim when i did with enough time for soemthign to be done today?

[Red2111]

 also claiming when i did allows for more info to be gained from people liek you and Tom, who are continuing to lynch me after i've claimed.

[WWWwombat]

Mishtress has 4 votes and you have 5, but right now you are drawing all the fire by pushing stuff that makes no sense and jumping the gun on your reveal.  Why?

[WWWwombat]

And why aren't you voting Mish yet?  Are you trying to get lynched?

[Leelou]

 also claiming when i did allows for more info to be gained from people liek you and Tom, who are continuing to lynch me after i've claimed.

 

You might as well have just claimed like Yates did. You pulled all the attention on yourself with your ridiculous vote on Tommy and ludicrous arguments. I'm not really buying your claim, but I want to go through the thread a bit before throwing a vote out there. 

[WWWwombat]

I'm gonna need you to explain this a bit further. Why the switch from Red to Mishtress? Quotes are explanations would work best for me, thx.

 

 

Because Cloud's case is good.  Mish changed her story to suit her fake active purposes.  First, she was too tired to catch up, but then she wasn't.

 

Red is definitely scummy imo, but a lot of the things she's taking heat for are things she does as town too.  For instance, the whole argument with Yates is irrelevant.  It's something Red would have done as town or scum imo.  She picks little things and doesn't let them go.

 

I don't like Red's claim at all, but I don't think we should just let Mishtress slide by either.

[WWWwombat]

Also, very shortly after I pointed out the hypocrisy in Mish basing a scum read on Des on a meta read from a tiny sample, Tress came with her trumped up case on me.  That reads completely disingenuous to me.  It's like they realized on their QT that I had a good point against Mish and then they had to rush to get a case on me.  But they used Tress to make the case because she's been taking heat for low content.  But her case was bad anyway.

[WWWwombat]

Which speaks of survival as a more important goal than scumhunting to me.  Add it to Mish telling people they need to look at Tress when Tress hadn't done anything, and those two are looking pretty whyme fryme right now.

[WWWwombat]

Lazy play and bad cases from somewhat experienced players?  Probscum.

[Leelou]

Also, very shortly after I pointed out the hypocrisy in Mish basing a scum read on Des on a meta read from a tiny sample, Tress came with her trumped up case on me.  That reads completely disingenuous to me.  It's like they realized on their QT that I had a good point against Mish and then they had to rush to get a case on me.  But they used Tress to make the case because she's been taking heat for low content.  But her case was bad anyway.

 

I agree, Tress and Mish are looking bad right now. I'm just eating and then I'm going to try to get through the thread. Might not be til later tonight. 

[WWWwombat]

 

 

 

Notice the logically fallacious D2 associative reads that are being set up here:

 

 

1.  Wombat scum implies Dawn town.

2.  Wombat scum implies Red town.

3.  Wombat flips town.

4.  Oh well I was wrong about Wombat so I must have been wrong about Dawn/Red

 

Associative, schmassosiative.  You're my strongest read ATM.  Without going back and doing a full re-read or a bunch of ISOs, this is what I've got, mostly gut impressions but it's legit.

 

 

That's kind of the point.  You don't really have any strong reads that aren't based on the assumption that I'm scum.  You also haven't explained why you find my actions that you've highlighted scummy.

 

 

No time right now, kthx.

 

And while I'm late to work already let me note this:

 

In no way is it logical to infer that my read on Dawn is subject to my read on you.  In fact, just the opposite.  I think if you are mafia, you're more likely to defend Town!Dawn than Scum!Dawn, but nowhere did I say or infer that I thought she could be scum if you were town.  The fact that I think she's town reinforces my scum read on you a bit, because I don't know that TownBat would be as likely to defend a new player so strongly.  She's past the D1 noob pass.  Nobody was building a train on her.   Let her learn from the FOS'ing.

 

 

Once again, you're missing the point, Tress.  Your town read on Dawn right now seems to be largely based on me defending her and your assumption that I am scum.  If I flip town, then your stated reason for thinking Dawn is town disappears, something a mafia member can easily exploit to switch stances on Dawn if needed.  Basic scum illogic.

 

As for your assertion that my defense of Dawn is in some way strong, that is pretty patently false.  I've been saying that I don't think what Dawn has done so far is scummy and that I would like to hear more from her.  That is about as null as it gets.  At most, it's a slight defense combined with moving the game onto more productive targets.

 

As for the so-called D1 noob pass, I have never advocated that crap and you bringing it up is a complete strawman.

[Darthe]

Attention!  I need these players to post more.  Having to kill this many people or replace them would hurt the game.  Please attempt to post more often.

 

 

amegakure 14 Nolder 14 _CLOUD 14 Misheru 10 Despothera 6 Xthrax 6 TinaHel 4 Krakalakachkn 3 Zanube 2

dicetosser1

1

Jack_D                                                                                  0

[Lenlo]

Hey Verb, go yell at your other half.

[Sedai]

##vote verbalina

 

Been on vacation. Anyone feel like catching me up

[Darthe]

Yupp.

 

Consensus is nobody likes you.  

[Sedai]

Just a cliff note. If red is mafia so is AJ book it