[Regimental Book Discussion] Future Heroes of the Horn

[Nikonis]

Regimental Book Discussion

April is the second month of the year when The Archers get to host The Band's monthly book discussion. Material from all books, including AMoL may be used however please remember that some members may not have read the final book yet so try to use spoiler tags or omit any huge events from the final book as an attempt to give everyone the ability to participate.  For your participation in the discussion you will be awarded points.  To earn these points you must be an active participant throughout the month. You will not receive points for "Yes, I agree" or "That's a neat idea", etc... however you may begin your post with this if you follow up with your additions to the theory and/or idea as well as comment on it specifically.

As always the topic must relate to The Band of the Red Hand from content shown in or relating to the Wheel of Time books. This month the Archers have decided upon our topic and, although Oliver is not an official member of the Band, he will be included umong them for the duration of this discussion since he is basically being raised by Mat and the members of the band.

 

TOPIC

Which members of The Band would make good candidates as future Heroes of the Horn and why?

 

 

[dawnflower8]

Mat for sure. He was an amazing military general and band leader.

[F Horn of Valere]

IMO Mat is probably not a good candidate for three reasons (the first being most important):

1. Much of his military prowress (mostly on the strategy side... I think his personality was also just right) was borrowed from other people. If I understand how WoT Reincarnation works, that basically means his "gift" was a one-time thing-- he won't retain that between lives, or at least, it won't be quite the same.
2. AMOL Spoiler:
   The Heroes of the Horn told him he would not become one of them.

3. He would try to find some way to rebel against the system to avoid it!

I think other than Mat, Talmanes is probably the obvious candidate, especially evident by his (AMOL Spoiler:)

Exploits as the acting Band commander in Caemlyn

. Men rally around him and respect him in a way that makes it seem like he might at least be a minor ta'veren.

[dicetosser1]

Yes Talmanes for sure. He might be better known by his new moniker tho.

 

i dont think Vanin would be a candidate because of his past as a horse theif and stuff.

 

Olver also has potential. I wouldn't be surprised if he grows up and goes off Jain Farstrider style having adventures.

[F Horn of Valere]

Good point on Olver.

[dawnflower8]

IMO Mat is probably not a good candidate for three reasons (the first being most important):

1. Much of his military prowress (mostly on the strategy side... I think his personality was also just right) was borrowed from other people. If I understand how WoT Reincarnation works, that basically means his "gift" was a one-time thing-- he won't retain that between lives, or at least, it won't be quite the same.
2. AMOL Spoiler:
   The Heroes of the Horn told him he would not become one of them.

3. He would try to find some way to rebel against the system to avoid it!

I think other than Mat, Talmanes is probably the obvious candidate, especially evident by his (AMOL Spoiler:)

Exploits as the acting Band commander in Caemlyn

. Men rally around him and respect him in a way that makes it seem like he might at least be a minor ta'veren.

They told him that? I didn't remember that...*is disappointed*

 

If not him, Talmanes.

[Nikonis]

I agree with F Horn that Mat is unlikely going to be a hero of the horn due to what he is told in Chapter 43 of AMoL.

 

Amid the fighting, he finally asked the question that had been haunting him for a long while now. "I'm not bloody one of you, am I?" he asked Hend the Striker. ....General talking... "No, you are not one of us," Hend said. "Though you have done more than enough to earn a place, you have not been chosen. I do not know why."

 

 

 

I also agree with Talmanes having earned a spot because of everything he did for the band and especially the events in the prologue of AMoL.

 

I believe that Oliver will become a hero because

 

of the protection he gave the horn while in the last battle and not just giving it up when he was cornered and then summoning the Heros to save the day.  He is now bound to the horn and I believe that this fact may be a nod to the fact that he is bound to the horn both in life and in death.

 

[dicetosser1]

that last might be a stretch nikon. we have no evidence that any of the heroes ever blew the Horn. In fact it seems the Horn was hidden during most of their times. Hawkwing, Birgitte and Gaidal Cain all come after the Horn was hidden by AOL Aes Sedai

[F Horn of Valere]

If having the right personality/motivations combined with heroic actions are some of the qualifiers to become bound to the Horn, I agree it is a stretch to say Olver is going to be a hero because of blowing the horn, but I think Nikon is right... I think Sanderson used that specific line as a subtle nod to the fact that Olver would one day become a Hero of the Horn. Not because he is bound to it right now-- I think that line is a literary device, not a plot device.

[dawnflower8]

I think it's a bit hard to tell with Olver. We don't know if he will do more heroic things as he gets older. If he does, than yes, he could become a Hero of the Horn. (And he seems like he will, but we don't really know)

[Ipavaiva]

Guys... Olver is Caidal Cain, so he has no reason to "become" a hero anymore.

He is ugly(big ears etc.), also he is few years older than Birgitte who told at the end of the story that she is just about to reborn.

 

Also, the wheel turns and the ages come and go. Wouldn't that mean that there is no new heroes but the same heroes keep reborning, being all heroes and stuff, dying and coming to protect the light when someone uses the horn? Correct me if I'm wrong here

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

Guys... Olver is Caidal Cain, so he has no reason to "become" a hero anymore.

He is ugly(big ears etc.), also he is few years older than Birgitte who told at the end of the story that she is just about to reborn.

 

Also, the wheel turns and the ages come and go. Wouldn't that mean that there is no new heroes but the same heroes keep reborning, being all heroes and stuff, dying and coming to protect the light when someone uses the horn? Correct me if I'm wrong here

 

Not so, Robert Jordan specifically said that Olver was NOT Gaidal Cain

[BFG]

Olver is too old to be Cain, time passes at different speeds between the real world and the world of dreams, but is one directional. We meet Cain in one of the early books and Olver is already born by that stage.

 

I wonder if maybe one of the qualities that a Hero needs to become a hero is that they attract stories. I think Thom talks about it with Brigitte, that they are reborn when needed to inspire people. Based on this I think the people that are reborn as Heroes are the people that have parallels to modern stories. If so Olver already fits the bill with some parallels to Oliver Twist... more so than Tamales

[F Horn of Valere]

Also not everyone is reborn.

[dicetosser1]

Tamales?  You think he is hot??

[dawnflower8]

Tamales?  You think he is hot??

Who said that? XD

 

Whoever did has a very weird taste in men.

[F Horn of Valere]

To be fair, his body temperature was also probably fairly high at the end of a few battles.

 

 

Good point as well as the name thing... Oliver Twist, King Arthur, etc. Do Cain and Birgitte have their own too?

[BFG]

no I have stupid auto correct on my tablet...

[BFG]

I'm not sure on Birgette and Cain, I was watching a Robin Hood episode recently and there was a couple there, the girl had a long braid and carried a bow... but I don't know that mythology very well.

 

Edit: case in point - Birgette to Brigitte

[dicetosser1]

lol i tend to write Bridgitte all on my own    never mind auto correct

[F Horn of Valere]

I couldn't find anything online about any legendary women with a silver bow. *shrugs* Guess we are doomed to speculation!