[Advanced] Dragonmount Witchhunt Mafia!!! Game over, Witches win!!!

[Verbal32]

 

 

Consider this:  We won't get a coroner regardless of what we choose, so the info the town gains from lynching will not be much.  Verbal role is mod-confirmed town, so we know the person using it will have town interests in mind.  Also, voting no lynch has the same virtue that speedlynching Dawn did in that it gives scum very little to go on going forward.

 

I hear you, but this puts the "daykill" in the hands of (potentially) somebody will bad reads this game.  An informed town lynch could be more accurate than a me-kill, heh.

 

 

It could also out town roles though.

 

 

True.  And I guess doing it your way also removes the Witches Last Gasp mechanic.

[Verbal32]

Also, I don't think a lynch will be more accurate than a Verbal kill.

 

Give me a gun and I'll prove it!!!

[Verbal32]

Oh wait....

[WWWwombat]

Analyzing threadplay is going to be easier for scum than town this game imo due to no coroners.  But if we make them kill someone without adding much more gameplay, they are essentially forced to give us a town flip.

[dicetosser1]

Consider this:  We won't get a coroner regardless of what we choose, so the info the town gains from lynching will not be much.  Verbal role is mod-confirmed town, so we know the person using it will have town interests in mind.  Also, voting no lynch has the same virtue that speedlynching Dawn did in that it gives scum very little to go on going forward.

 

it also gives town very little to go on for continueing to find witches.

 

 

and what if Len WAS verbal?? what then? We have wasted a day of scumhunting, get no lynch to narrow the field but the witches get a kill. We lose a townie for no info at all

[WWWwombat]

How does lynching get you any more scumhunting info than no lynching in this setup?  It's just going to be a blind lynch.  This setup is not about scumhunting.  It's about townhunting.  Townies have to figure out who is town without forcing reveals.  Witches have to find town power roles without reveals.  It's all about inferring alignment without reveals and without coroners, so how does lynching just for the sake of lynching help you do that?

[WWWwombat]

What info do you actually get from a lynch if you don't know the flip?

[dicetosser1]

how about all the reactions and thoughts? you dont get them if everyone just posts vote no lynch

[WWWwombat]

Is that what we're doing?  Because I see plenty of reactions and thoughts here.

[WWWwombat]

Too many in some cases.

[Alanna]

I think I like Wombat's idea. I know I'm pretty useless at scumhunting without gaining any info from a lynch, so I definitely agree there. I don't think a lynch is in any way more advantageous than a Verb kill for us.

 

I'd like to see what more people think before placing a vote.

[michellem]

Sorry for not being very talkative the last day or so, been living too much in my own head. Right now it's very late and I'm very tired, so I'll catch up tomorrow.

 

But I was targeted for a kill last night. I was protected.

[WWWwombat]

Interesting.  I thought it would have been Pralaya but maybe they saw you as a more immediate threat.  Also sheds a new light on Jack floating the remote possibility of scum holstering last night.

[WWWwombat]

He has also been staunchly opposing the no lynch idea and knows Lily's meta extremely well.

[Sedai]

He has also been staunchly opposing the no lynch idea and knows Lily's meta extremely well.

Yup I do. she was more active then normal and her throwing her support behind verb at first pinged so hard I thought I pulled a muscle.

 

But yeah I'm the only one who said witches may have holstered. Not sure why no one else brought it up as it is a viable outcome.

 

Witches holster, push for maybe a verb role reveal or other role hunt then soup them at night. Seems like a pretty safe play. Low risk maximum reward.

[Sedai]

He has also been staunchly opposing the no lynch idea and knows Lily's meta extremely well.

And more so providing a second alternative. No need to rush into a situation blind IMO. Especially on a Friday when not many on to discuss with.

[WWWwombat]

Hey are we doing the double vote thing? Aka cos vote?

 

Jack was the first to push cosvoting.  This was on page 6, before much had happened.

 

 

Like giving you a gun? Lol

 

Think we need to talk this out before we give out a double vote.

 

He wants to talk about the double-vote early, but not decide until later.  Sounds like he's looking for people with a priori alignment knowledge.  Normally, that's a good strategy, but scum tying themselves together like that on D1 would be reckless.  Given the Lily soupkill, I think it's rather evident that searching for a priori alignment knowledge was an anti-town agenda this game.

 

 

Why don't we just wait until we have some actual town reads?

 

Here is me wondering why Jack wants to talk about the cosvote when not much had happened.

 

 

Has to be voted day 1

 

This falsely implies that townies can't get town reads on D1.  It also helps push an agenda of looking for people with unexplained town reads.

 

 

If he is town, Verb is the one I would trust most with the Panda. But that's a big if.

Scum would want to take control of this mechanic. Verb hard pushing for it and lily hedging for him to have it is pretty interesting.

 

 

Jack is clearly hyper-aware of how people are acting with respect to the cosvote and town reads.  Furthermore, his reasoning for pushing the issue here makes no sense.  Scum trying to push to control a double-vote would have been a needless risk, especially when they can kill multiple times in one night.

 

 

Two problems with that.

 

1 there's no doc

2. Only angel protects

3. Witches have an unstoppable kill.

 

I agree a normal townie would want it to themselves. However Lily's willingness to give it you have it unbeknownst to your alignment (assuming she's a townie) would be reckless. Lily isn't reckless.

 

I can tell it's changed. I'm happy for it. Most recent games I've been in town nailed scum day I age a lot can be learned and day 1 scum is most likely to make a slip.

 

Implying that Lily had a priori alignment knowledge and was using it to buddy Verbal.  Looks to me like he was trying to fish for Ithi/Turin.  THis could possibly clear Verbal if we ever find out that Jack is scum (which we probably won't).

 

 

Recovering from good poisoning.

 

Unvote and Vote Lily

 

The whole double vote thing and the interplay with verb is deserving a vote

 

More pushing of the Lily/Verb thing.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

I recommend everyone read up on the soup mechanic.  Because of this mechanic it is very important for townies not to tip, hint at, or reveal their roles..  We should still stop before lynching someone to allow a last defense, but forcing a true roleclaim will be as good as killing a townie.  And if the scum ever figure out all of our roles, they can end the game in one night.  It is important that we very carefully consider our actions in this game as outing power roles is much, much more dangerous than usual.  Traditional scumhunting will be vital.

Townie post

 

 

Not exactly agree with this.Wombat makes a very valid and important point but the whole point of Wombat's post could be to gain the town cred. It isn't that big a gambit for scum either as that mechanic would have been referenced anyway during the game and don't think anyone would have actually gone and claimed even without Wombat's post.

 

However, Lily pointing it out does make me feel good about her. Purely meta.

 

Null for Wombat. Lily town.

 

 

Pralaya's first post buddying Lily.

 

 

cosvote Lily

 

Getting good vibes from her after that post where she clears Wombat as town. Whether or not he is town is irrelevant but the intention is there. Also, she is usually a lot aggressive and nudgy on Day 1 as scum which I am not seeing here. Mostly defensive and taking it easy. 

 

His second, more blatant buddying post.

 

 

Len never gets serious /itisknown.

 

 

Immediate thoughts:

 

Getting some iffy vibes of Vos. A bit of iff from Dice. I disagree with Pral's thoughts on Lily's meta, in my experience she's more defensive and evasive as mafia and she's my highest mafia read right now. Verb, Wombat, Leelou slight town leans. Dawn jumpy newbie. Lenlo, undecided.

 

Vote Lily

 

 

cosunvote vote Leelou

 

Didn't like this post by Mish at the time.  Also, she is the first to question Pralaya's meta-assessment of Lily.  Given the fact that Pralaya's meta was obviously off though, this isn't necessarily a scumtell imo.  Since MIsh was making good analysis last night and she's claimed that the Witches shot her, I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt atm.

 

 

Mish you forgot me. :(

 

An I the only one who suspects Pral over pushing Lily's towniness as maybe a witch hoping for town cred. The whole situation stinks.

 

Can someone please explain to me why Leelou is getting so many cosvotes?

 

I can vote

 

Lily

Pral

Verb

Lenlo

 

All for previous stated interplay. Not sure for to feel about Verb and Leelou banter. Will have to read it again. First pass it read like they were bored and it seemed pretty organic.

 

Jack is really worried about people buddying people here.  He tries to subtly push Pralaya's buddying of Lily without actually explaining why it's faulty.  Given that Jack knows Lily well, this is an odd way to go about it.  Looks like he wants the seed planted but doesn't want tracks leading back to him.  And for good measure, he brings up the largely unexplained cosvotes for Leelou and interactions between Leelou and Verb.

 

 

 

cosvote Lily

 

Getting good vibes from her after that post where she clears Wombat as town. Whether or not he is town is irrelevant but the intention is there. Also, she is usually a lot aggressive and nudgy on Day 1 as scum which I am not seeing here. Mostly defensive and taking it easy. 

 

Have you ever played with Lily?  Lily and "aggressive on D1" do not match regardless of her alignment.  This is weird - are you trying to implant meta on her?

 

 

Verbal criticizes Pralaya's meta.  This was an anti-town move, but reads as genuine puzzlement.

 

 

 

Len never gets serious /itisknown.

 

 

Immediate thoughts:

 

Getting some iffy vibes of Vos. A bit of iff from Dice. I disagree with Pral's thoughts on Lily's meta, in my experience she's more defensive and evasive as mafia and she's my highest mafia read right now. Verb, Wombat, Leelou slight town leans. Dawn jumpy newbie. Lenlo, undecided.

 

Vote Lily

 

 

cosunvote vote Leelou

 

Agree with Mish on the disagree about meta.  That said, I think it speaks more to Pralaya than it does Lily.

 

 

This reads more like Verbal scumhunting than rolefishing imo.  Also, he brings up a good point that MIsh voting Lily for something Pralaya did to buddy her doesn't really make sense as town.

 

 

 

Mish you forgot me. :(

 

An I the only one who suspects Pral over pushing Lily's towniness as maybe a witch hoping for town cred. The whole situation stinks.

 

Can someone please explain to me why Leelou is getting so many cosvotes?

 

I can vote

 

Lily

Pral

Verb

Lenlo

 

All for previous stated interplay. Not sure for to feel about Verb and Leelou banter. Will have to read it again. First pass it read like they were bored and it seemed pretty organic.

 

To the bold, no. He's misrepping her meta. 

 

 

Short and to the point.  Not a good thing to be talking about, but the rather terse way in which Leelou addressed it feels townish to me.

 

 

But he's pushing the angle that she's obvTown With his views on her meta. It's way to early to effectively meta to the point of certainty as he's projecting he's done. I don't like it.

 

Jack continues to push the point, even to a bit of discrediting, but he doesn't actually attack the specifics.  Looks like more nudging.

 

 

His post regarding Lily feels a bit like buddying. 

 

Leelou plays along which I don't like at all, but once again her statement is rather to the point.  Mixed on Leelou.

[WWWwombat]

 

He has also been staunchly opposing the no lynch idea and knows Lily's meta extremely well.

Yup I do. she was more active then normal and her throwing her support behind verb at first pinged so hard I thought I pulled a muscle.

 

But yeah I'm the only one who said witches may have holstered. Not sure why no one else brought it up as it is a viable outcome.

 

Witches holster, push for maybe a verb role reveal or other role hunt then soup them at night. Seems like a pretty safe play. Low risk maximum reward.

 

 

Because it's not very likely.  The only reason I see the witches holstering last night would be to clear one of their own by claiming they were shot at.  And with at least one witch already in the grave, I really don't think it would be worth it, especially since Mish is the one who has claimed she was shot, and I don't think she would have been a lynch candidate today.

 

I do like how you try to tie the holster to my pushing the no lynch though.  It's totally transparent.  How would holstering help the witches rolefish at all?

 

 

 

He has also been staunchly opposing the no lynch idea and knows Lily's meta extremely well.

And more so providing a second alternative. No need to rush into a situation blind IMO. Especially on a Friday when not many on to discuss with.

 

 

Lol there is every need to rush into situations blind in this game.  The more that is revealed on thread, the closer the scum are to soupkills.

 

But even so, I don't see much rushing here.  Right now, we're talking.  And so far there have been plenty of people weighing in.  You make no sense.

[WWWwombat]

We should no lynch and Verbal kill Jack today imo.  Don't give him a last gasp.

[WWWwombat]

1. Pray - Town read
2. Wombat - LOCK CLEAR
3. Verbal - Mixed
4. Mish - Town lean
5. Jack - Scum read
6. Leelou - Mixed
7. Dawn - lynched Day 2 Confirmed Witch
8. Hallia - Null
9. Lenlo - lynched Day 1 Probably town imo =\
10. Dice - Null
11. Alanna - Null
12. Vos - Mixed
13. Lily - Soupkilled Night 1 Confirmed Town

[Sedai]

1. Wombat I don't nudge. I've never been great at it and I always say what's on my mind when I post. I had a reason for going after lily as hard as I did day one, very very firm reasons.

 

2. I thought about what you said. Wouldn't that be an epic way to win lol. Clear Pral day one with a faulty soup attack and holstering that night to clear the remaining witch. After all Mish, was first to announce big game sacrificing dawn, and then pointed fingers at you myself and verb to sow that doubt and she escapes scrutiny and everyone believes her cause she claims to have been shot.

 

3. See how obvious I am when I say the person I'm voting is doing something I think is scummy. Lol

[WWWwombat]

But you did nudge.  Why else wouldn't you explain why Pralaya's meta on Lily was way off?

 

That's not really Mish's style though imo.  And she's been making decent points so far, so I'm trusting my town lean on her for now.

[Sedai]

But you did nudge. Why else wouldn't you explain why Pralaya's meta on Lily was way off?

 

That's not really Mish's style though imo. And she's been making decent points so far, so I'm trusting my town lean on her for now.

Because others already addressed it and I thought it was apparent.

[WWWwombat]

 

But you did nudge. Why else wouldn't you explain why Pralaya's meta on Lily was way off?

 

That's not really Mish's style though imo. And she's been making decent points so far, so I'm trusting my town lean on her for now.

Because others already addressed it and I thought it was apparent.

 

 

Then why did you address it twice and why did your first post contain the phrase "Am I the only one?"