[Basic] The Matrix - Game Over

[hazelkrs1]

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:54 AM, Andrej said:

Those don't apply here Despo. This is what I'm talking about. Lynching the guilty perp just allows über-bussing.

 

For one he received a viewing so we know he wasn't RB'd. Secondly there isn't even a chance for a BD this game.

Bussing doesn't matter. It's not about an info lynch- its a guilty result. You burn it with fire till it stops moving. Till this point GE hasn't been confirmed, but a scum flip on so.some he viewed as scum will pretty much do so, which then pretty much confirms no RB'er

[nervositee]

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:50 AM, Andrej said:

Lol your reaction is kind of amusing. That was meant to be a joke, but the point remains. Theo is already pegged, speed lynching her isn't going to yield any real info because now her partners can just bus away. She isn't going anywhere and I doubt she's going to post anymore. We are better off reaching majority on someone else we can agree is a likely partner.

 

Fwiw I would scratch you off the suspect list based on your interactions with her D1. It doesn't feel like bussing when you could've simply left her alone.

 

I don't get your logic. The way I see it:

 

Lynch confirmed scum, wait for NK, make an informed decision based on two days worth of info

Lynch a shot in the dark based on one days worth of info, wait for a NK, then lynch the confirmed scum.

 

Seems like easy math. 

 

My reads say that I trust you more than Basel and Des to be town, but I just fail to see your logic. Keeping a confirmed scum alive would just lead to a whole headache of WIFOM and plotting to confuse town, wouldn't it?

[hazelkrs1]

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:56 AM, Andrej said:

Also no one has CC'd so as far as I'm concerned he is already confirmed. I'm phone posting from my son's grandparents but I'll be home in a bit and I'll read up to see what sort of connections I see.

 

I suggest the rest of you do the same.

Accepting someone as "confirmed" just because there's no CC has been proven to be a fail tactic time and time again.

[nervositee]

Theo-ISO. No commentary provided on this post, just her posts for easy reference. 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:24 AM, Theodora said:

Hi guys,

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:16 AM, Basel Gill said:

Never been in a lyncher game before. That would definitely make things interesting.

 

Neither do I, I googled it - sounds a bit complicated.

 

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 1:18 PM, Theodora said:

oh, vote Despo, as he changed his avatar and now looks scummier than ever

 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 8:59 AM, Theodora said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 4:11 AM, Basel Gill said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:38 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:16 PM, Basel Gill said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 7:21 PM, Darthe said:

Idk why it happens to me so much.

I suppose you think we should lynch you now to get the wifom out of the way.
 

  On 1/24/2014 at 8:06 PM, Andrej said:

I think he was claiming Miller.

I thought he was ordering a beer.

 

 
1. I'd rather hear what you think we should do.
2. If so, I'll take one as well

 

I think we should leave Darthe be for now but keep him in mind. He's been miller so many times that I'd been wondering if sooner or later he would fakeclaim it on D1 in some game when he was really scum. But that's something that when you look closer, is really nuts for scum to do. It's too risky that town actually would lynch the alleged miller to get the wifom out of the way, and scum will start off down one. I'm going to say the second bit outweighs the first one, and call Darthe tentative town.

 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

 

 

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

 

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

There is something like a "Let's save Darthe" club already. Considering his reputation he and Despo always get viewed the first night (if there is a cop), so a Miller role is a good insurance for a scum to live another day.

 

AJ and Despo - both being helpful and provide explanations to the new players about roles. The thing that pings me is that I have seen such meta from AJ every time I have played with him, so I am leaning townie for now, but with Despo, he was most helpful when he was scum. I am not going to bold my joke vote though, as I think it's too early and he hasn't picked up full speed. So hasn't Golden, so null there.

 

Vos - I don't know how you play but if you read your own posts, you will see it is like going into two opposite directions with your conclusions, therefore a bit of a mess and not that helpful. I am leaning town on you for now; maybe, it is too early in the game.

 

 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 6:47 PM, Theodora said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 3:26 PM, TGlems said:

 

 

I think we should leave Darthe be for now but keep him in mind. He's been miller so many times that I'd been wondering if sooner or later he would fakeclaim it on D1 in some game when he was really scum. But that's something that when you look closer, is really nuts for scum to do. It's too risky that town actually would lynch the alleged miller to get the wifom out of the way, and scum will start off down one. I'm going to say the second bit outweighs the first one, and call Darthe tentative town.

 

 

This comment looks like you had nothing to say but still wanted to be a part of the discussion.  Trying too hard?

 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

 

Agreed about testing his claim. 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 8:59 AM, Theodora said:

There is something like a "Let's save Darthe" club already. Considering his reputation he and Despo always get viewed the first night (if there is a cop), so a Miller role is a good insurance for a scum to live another day.

 

AJ and Despo - both being helpful and provide explanations to the new players about roles. The thing that pings me is that I have seen such meta from AJ every time I have played with him, so I am leaning townie for now, but with Despo, he was most helpful when he was scum. I am not going to bold my joke vote though, as I think it's too early and he hasn't picked up full speed. So hasn't Golden, so null there.

 

Vos - I don't know how you play but if you read your own posts, you will see it is like going into two opposite directions with your conclusions, therefore a bit of a mess and not that helpful. I am leaning town on you for now; maybe, it is too early in the game.

 

 

Vote Theodora Are you just trying to get townie cred by looking like you're being nice to a newer player?  You point out why Vos' statement looks bad, calling it a "mess" and "unhelpful", then say you are leaning town? 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 9:31 AM, nervositee said:

 

1. Hmm? 

2. Yes. It was an ambiguous statement, because the way you're playing can strike both ways. I still mentioned it, not to claim you were this or that, but to offer my observation, for now but also for the future when we have more to go on. The whole point is to allow wiggle-room, because this early in the game we don't know anything. So more than anything, town should be über-flexible early game when things switch up fast. Taking a "hard stance" on page 4 seems more scummy to me than to observe and leave all options open. 

3. You are still jumping me from making jokey comments and then—when pointed out they seemed to intertwined with the hame—retracting/explaining them. It still strikes me as rash. Not scum-rash though. But still rash 

 

If it helps, I'll offer my "hard stance" opinion: AJ = Town. While I think that he is being overly active and grasping at straws I think he has done a good job of getting the game started, getting people to actually participate and do some active scumhunt. I know what I am, so his hunt for me seems either misdirected or scummy, but looking objectively at it I can see it. I think if you were scum you'd keep your head down a bit more, and especially not be the vocal forerunner of a mislynch D1.

 

 

You're being led around here.

 

TGlens, I stated pretty clearly that I cannot be so sure as to put a vote on anyone at this point (not all of the people have even joined) but I am leaning more townie on Vos as he is trying to scum-hunt but myaybe in order to catch all the details, he is going in two opposite directions. To me this is not helpful. This is not necessarily scummy at this point.

 

I don't like placing votes ten times per day without a specific reason; than changing them to no avail. Like you are fishing and you are waiting for a fish to grab the bite and start a train. Well, you got Basel.

 

 

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 3:44 PM, Theodora said:

I saw so far different people interpreting my words as scummy or putting words in my mouth.

 

This is what I meant when commenting Vos:

 

1. He is scum hunting but seems confused, so it does not help me with information.

2. Day1, I am doing the same usually and this is not a crime or a scum tell, thus leaning town on Vos for the moment

 

If this is enough for TG to vote me, good, there are always opportunistic scum and misled townies to bite.

 

Despo is looking for an easy lynch + he will be absent and votes me without stating a reason. Wow, Despo, are you lazy or you really believe some weak accusations?

 

I know how Golden plays and indeed he can come aggressive but this is just his style and if you vote him for this, then what do you say about TG's style of calling names? Also, I explained my reason for the comment on Vos'play and although Basel appeared scummy (TG's words), TG continues staying on me + accusing me of fake scum hunting.

 

I smell scum with such weak reasons, so

 

Vote TGlems

 

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 12:24 PM, Theodora said:

Damn, Re-read must be done. We have to be very careful now, not to have another wrong shot.

 

 

  On 1/29/2014 at 7:33 AM, Theodora said:

Err - he lives in another time zone, not Europe or USA and he said he would be away for a short time that is why I think he has not replied to the accusations. I do not think that at this point my vote would go to him just for the fact he started analyzing the game mechanics. To me it sounded more like "thinking aloud" but yet again it might have been a slip of the mafia team structure. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he appears and comments on the train.

 

Xthrax, Vos and AJ are the only people who try to do some real scum hunting and post their comments in a neat way. I do not necessarily agree with all of them but the goal is to provide information and I think they do well (leaning town). And AJ, no I don't speak the best of English, so if someone doesn't understand something, please ask. I appologise about that.

 

Darthe - still not convinced about his Miller PR. If I were scum and knowing Darthe usually gets viewed early in the game, what better claim than this with his first sentence. His protection for Basel, trying to divert attention to himself pings as well.

 

Despo - I don't see Despo in the game with his meta. He is voting and not commenting like we have seen him play when town. Maybe it's because he is into more than 1 mafia games or he tries the new tactics of lurking. The vote on me without any reason at all was just "brilliant"

 

Tina - I do not know what to think of her - a bit lurky but that is probably her style - sounds a bit over-defensive - null read for now.

 

Golden - I have seen him playing cop and playing scum and this is hi pro-town behaviour. I hope he would give some more explanations, though. I do not like a vote without a stated reason.

 

Anyway, I have my top scum read  in the face of Basel:

1. How quickly he jumped on my train (early Day 1) - very opportunistic move

2. When he saw the train building after Err - he made a consolidation vote

3. Votes Err right away (Day 2) because of the alleged diversion

4. Protects Darthe our "Miller" that he should be left to be a safe lynch later and now Darthe protects Basel, saying Basel votes suck. Looks like an artificial conversation to me.

 

That is all of his scum hunting until now and he presses for a quick lynch. These are enough reasons for me:

 

Vote Basel

 

 

 

[nervositee]

Attempt at a "Theo-summary"

 

• Joke-votes Despo
• Points out AJ and Des is helpful. Attributes this to AJ being town and Des being suspicious. 
• Gets into heat for contradictory reading of me (pointing out strange behaviour, yet reading town)
• Tries to explain herself, goes out hard against TG and votes him
• Giving her reads. 

Theos reads:

 

• Err: Awaiting more info
• Clears myself, AJ and XtraX as town for being active scumhunters
• Not convinced by Darthes miller claim
• Des: Criticizes for lurking, not being his usual scum-hunting self, not playing "according to meta" (paraphrased). Doesn't give a solid read though. 
• Tina - Vaguely null
• Golden: Town cop
• Scum-reads Basel and implying that Darthe is scum with him

Votes Basel.

[Babar Hasan Khan]

17 hours to go.... we definately lynch Theo..... but i would like to wait till lets say T-3 hours to do that..... that would give more time to go through theos posts and her interaction with others..... Luciena could also use that time to catch up.

 

Unvote

[Andrej]

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:58 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:54 AM, Andrej said:

Those don't apply here Despo. This is what I'm talking about. Lynching the guilty perp just allows über-bussing.

 

For one he received a viewing so we know he wasn't RB'd. Secondly there isn't even a chance for a BD this game.

Bussing doesn't matter. It's not about an info lynch- its a guilty result. You burn it with fire till it stops moving. Till this point GE hasn't been confirmed, but a scum flip on so.some he viewed as scum will pretty much do so, which then pretty much confirms no RB'er

 

 

I get that, but I think this way Town can garner more information overall than just speed lynching the guilty view. We are basically going to have no way of determining which votes are legit town or bus votes. Like I said, she's already pegged and won't be going anywhere. Now I think we analyze her posts and those in regards to her and make an informed decision. Essentially I'm suggesting that if we do this right we could potentially lynch scum today and then still have her lined up for tomorrow.

 

Also, like I stated previously, the fact he even received a result should indicate there is no RBer.

 

I honestly see no point in questioning GE. We have a miller claim. To me this suggest the presence of a cop as well in order to utilize the miller's purpose. We have a cop claim and no CC. Now, do you think that one of GE or Darthe is lying? Or both? What are really the odds?

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:59 AM, nervositee said:

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:50 AM, Andrej said:

Lol your reaction is kind of amusing. That was meant to be a joke, but the point remains. Theo is already pegged, speed lynching her isn't going to yield any real info because now her partners can just bus away. She isn't going anywhere and I doubt she's going to post anymore. We are better off reaching majority on someone else we can agree is a likely partner.

 

Fwiw I would scratch you off the suspect list based on your interactions with her D1. It doesn't feel like bussing when you could've simply left her alone.

 

I don't get your logic. The way I see it:

 

Lynch confirmed scum, wait for NK, make an informed decision based on two days worth of info

Lynch a shot in the dark based on one days worth of info, wait for a NK, then lynch the confirmed scum.

 

Seems like easy math. 

 

My reads say that I trust you more than Basel and Des to be town, but I just fail to see your logic. Keeping a confirmed scum alive would just lead to a whole headache of WIFOM and plotting to confuse town, wouldn't it?

 

 

You are looking at it the wrong way. I'm not saying we take a shot in the dark, I'm saying we analyze, discuss and then come to an agreement like a good town should. Saying we only have one day's worth of info is true, but if we speed lynch today it isn't like we are gaining a lot of info to use tomorrow anyway. Plus NK spec is usually much more muddied than day-time interactions.

 

What I am suggesting is that we lynch elsewhere with who we decide is the most likely teammate, allow GE to view someone again (which could land another guilty), and then lynch her tomorrow. It's rather low risk/high reward IMO.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:59 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:56 AM, Andrej said:

Also no one has CC'd so as far as I'm concerned he is already confirmed. I'm phone posting from my son's grandparents but I'll be home in a bit and I'll read up to see what sort of connections I see.

 

I suggest the rest of you do the same.

Accepting someone as "confirmed" just because there's no CC has been proven to be a fail tactic time and time again.

 

 

I understand this and really don't need you to lecture me on it. I've stated before that based on the claims we have that having a cop fits or else Nol is just throwing around negative utility roles for shitz&gigz. Do you think that GE would fake-claim Cop in that situation and then a guilty view today? It's more or less suicide if he were scum.

 

Your reasonings are fair but underneath that I'm getting the impression you want to get this lynch over with quickly Des, me-no-likey.

[nervositee]

I'll sleep on it ;) 4:30 here, so it's bed-time. I'll be around before DL. 

[Andrej]

  On 1/30/2014 at 2:15 AM, nervositee said:

Attempt at a "Theo-summary"

 

• Joke-votes Despo
• Points out AJ and Des is helpful. Attributes this to AJ being town and Des being suspicious. 
• Gets into heat for contradictory reading of me (pointing out strange behaviour, yet reading town)
• Tries to explain herself, goes out hard against TG and votes him
• Giving her reads. 

Theos reads:

 

• Err: Awaiting more info
• Clears myself, AJ and XtraX as town for being active scumhunters
• Not convinced by Darthes miller claim
• Des: Criticizes for lurking, not being his usual scum-hunting self, not playing "according to meta" (paraphrased). Doesn't give a solid read though. 
• Tina - Vaguely null
• Golden: Town cop
• Scum-reads Basel and implying that Darthe is scum with him

Votes Basel.

 

Okay, so that's a pretty good basis. Now what sort of conclusions do you think can be drawn from this?

 

I'm gonna start my re-read soon. I think everyone should weigh in on this and provide a list of who they think are her potential partners. I also think my idea is still pretty viable at this point in the game. We're not so deep that we can't afford a mislynch and best case we'll actually kill one of her partners today. I'd rather have a train on someone else that we can actually analyze later versus a pile-up on outted scum which will provide little insight IMO.

[hazelkrs1]

  On 1/30/2014 at 3:03 AM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:58 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:54 AM, Andrej said:

Those don't apply here Despo. This is what I'm talking about. Lynching the guilty perp just allows über-bussing.

 

For one he received a viewing so we know he wasn't RB'd. Secondly there isn't even a chance for a BD this game.

Bussing doesn't matter. It's not about an info lynch- its a guilty result. You burn it with fire till it stops moving. Till this point GE hasn't been confirmed, but a scum flip on so.some he viewed as scum will pretty much do so, which then pretty much confirms no RB'er

 

 

I get that, but I think this way Town can garner more information overall than just speed lynching the guilty view. We are basically going to have no way of determining which votes are legit town or bus votes. Like I said, she's already pegged and won't be going anywhere. Now I think we analyze her posts and those in regards to her and make an informed decision. Essentially I'm suggesting that if we do this right we could potentially lynch scum today and then still have her lined up for tomorrow.

 

Also, like I stated previously, the fact he even received a result should indicate there is no RBer.

 

I honestly see no point in questioning GE. We have a miller claim. To me this suggest the presence of a cop as well in order to utilize the miller's purpose. We have a cop claim and no CC. Now, do you think that one of GE or Darthe is lying? Or both? What are really the odds?

 

Bold: Exactly. It's not like there just ended up being a substantial case against Theo and people started hopping on- we got a guilty viewing from a cop. There's literally almost no reliable way to truly discern bus votes from normal ones. Hence, immediate vote train analysis won't be that fruitful, but the plus side is once you have Theo's flip, you can then go back and examine her interactions with other players, that sort of thing. Kind of a "don't count your eggs before they're hatched" sort of thing.

 

Italics: You're operating under way too many assumptions here. You're assuming that Theo will flip mafia, and not some third party type role like SK or something. If she is third party, she might not have teammates to link to. You're also assuming that as mafia she left evidence linking herself to other teammates, or that we would easily be able to figure out who those teammates might be. Theo is new, but she's still pretty sharp- I don't think it will be so easy to immediately find any partners she might have based on her posts, which could end up leading to a mislynch today before we've ever actually lynched scum. The worst assumption you're making however, is that just because she's "pegged" that she can no longer do any harm to town, but this isn't true by a long shot. She can be roled, and could have something nasty for all we know. And she could still wifom before she DOES actually die.

 

Point is, in this scenario, when you have a guilty result on someone, there's really nothing else to be done except lynch the target. Everything else comes after.

 

Underlined: I'm not questioning GE's claim, I never found him that scummy to begin with or anything. And as for Darthe, so far I have no objections to his play, and he did the best thing with a miller role (if that's what he is), by claiming up front, so I'm not really questioning his either. But I don't take either role as "confirmed" because that's just kind of a silly thing to do in a mafia game. Trust me, when you've seen as many bizarro setups and crazy gambits as I have, you learn not to ever take anything for granted. Seeing a scum flip on a guilty result from our claimed Cop will come pretty close to confirming him, but even that won't do it completely. Doesn't matter what the odds are, smart play is smart play.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 3:03 AM, Andrej said:

Your reasonings are fair but underneath that I'm getting the impression you want to get this lynch over with quickly Des, me-no-likey.

I actually would rather see her flip sooner rather than later, and I have no problem admitting that. Again, discerning bus votes from non-bus votes in this situation will be pretty futile no matter what. I'd rather see her flip so that we can then start analyzing the rest of the info. Looking for teammates will be pretty silly if she flips SK (I know I know, we haven't seen multiple kills yet, doesn't matter). What if she flips miller? What if she flips town, which would either cast doubt on our cop's role/sanity, or introduce the possibility of a Redirector or something that can tamper with investigation results? Not much point in trying to figure out all the ins and outs when we don't even have a flip on her yet. Doubt we'll see much other gameplay in the meantime, as far as people pushing lynches other than Theo. So again, might as well wrap this up.

[hazelkrs1]

And I'm finally back at work btw, so I'll be able to do a full reread tonight and catch up on anything that fell through the cracks.

[Andrej]

DM is making me break this up into several posts

 

So I went back and quoted everything said by Theo and everyone who has mentioned her in some fashion. I left commentary under some of the boxes but in summary this is what I've found:

 

Defended Theo: myself, Xthrax, Tina

Voted/FOS'd Theo: Despo, Basel, TG

No commentary in either fashion: Whoever isn't quoted.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:38 AM, Despothera said:

Oh and Vote Theodora cause she's obviously scum

 

Joke vote, nothing serious.

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 12:02 PM, Err said:

ya... theo... i am keeping my on you too pretty close this time !!!!!

 

Joke referring to the WD game that Theo won as SK.

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 1:18 PM, Theodora said:

oh, vote Despo, as he changed his avatar and now looks scummier than ever

 

OMGUS joke vote.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 8:59 AM, Theodora said:

There is something like a "Let's save Darthe" club already. Considering his reputation he and Despo always get viewed the first night (if there is a cop), so a Miller role is a good insurance for a scum to live another day.

 

AJ and Despo - both being helpful and provide explanations to the new players about roles. The thing that pings me is that I have seen such meta from AJ every time I have played with him, so I am leaning townie for now, but with Despo, he was most helpful when he was scum. I am not going to bold my joke vote though, as I think it's too early and he hasn't picked up full speed. So hasn't Golden, so null there.

 

Vos - I don't know how you play but if you read your own posts, you will see it is like going into two opposite directions with your conclusions, therefore a bit of a mess and not that helpful. I am leaning town on you for now; maybe, it is too early in the game.

 

FOS's Darthe here a bit for his Miller claim. Calls both Despo and I helpful but names me town and Despo scum. GE is null. Then the commentary on Vos that caught her a lot of heat. So looking at this objectively you could possibly conclude:

 

Buddying town/town-reading scum partner with me.

False FOS/Distancing with Despo.

Buddying town/town-reading scum partner with Vos.

 

I'm town reading Vos and I know that I'm town. Could sort of go either way with Despo here.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 11:02 AM, Despothera said:

Theo, I'm helpful no matter what my alignment is. I'm hurt that you would think otherwise!

 

 

Jokey response.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 3:26 PM, TGlems said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 8:59 AM, Theodora said:

There is something like a "Let's save Darthe" club already. Considering his reputation he and Despo always get viewed the first night (if there is a cop), so a Miller role is a good insurance for a scum to live another day.

 

AJ and Despo - both being helpful and provide explanations to the new players about roles. The thing that pings me is that I have seen such meta from AJ every time I have played with him, so I am leaning townie for now, but with Despo, he was most helpful when he was scum. I am not going to bold my joke vote though, as I think it's too early and he hasn't picked up full speed. So hasn't Golden, so null there.

 

Vos - I don't know how you play but if you read your own posts, you will see it is like going into two opposite directions with your conclusions, therefore a bit of a mess and not that helpful. I am leaning town on you for now; maybe, it is too early in the game.

 

 

Vote Theodora Are you just trying to get townie cred by looking like you're being nice to a newer player?  You point out why Vos' statement looks bad, calling it a "mess" and "unhelpful", then say you are leaning town?

 

TG's original vote. Looks like he was right after all.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 3:27 PM, TGlems said:

EBWOP: That first quote was from Basel. 

 

Scum team so far, Theodora, Basel, and ...?

 

Pins Theo. Not so sure about Basel at this point though, I don't think his interactions with Theo early on were a distancing ploy.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 5:15 PM, TGlems said:

Unvote AJ

 

Vote Theodora

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 5:34 PM, Basel Gill said:

Vote Thea. If you think that someone is posting conflicting conclusions, being a mess and unhelpful, then why aren't you voting that person? That counts as a scumtell in my book, and I'm finding it really weird that it doesn't ping for you.

 

Basel's original vote on Theo.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 6:47 PM, Theodora said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 3:26 PM, TGlems said:

Vote Theodora Are you just trying to get townie cred by looking like you're being nice to a newer player?  You point out why Vos' statement looks bad, calling it a "mess" and "unhelpful", then say you are leaning town?

TGlens, I stated pretty clearly that I cannot be so sure as to put a vote on anyone at this point (not all of the people have even joined) but I am leaning more townie on Vos as he is trying to scum-hunt but myaybe in order to catch all the details, he is going in two opposite directions. To me this is not helpful. This is not necessarily scummy at this point.

 

I don't like placing votes ten times per day without a specific reason; than changing them to no avail. Like you are fishing and you are waiting for a fish to grab the bite and start a train. Well, you got Basel.

 

Theo calling Basel opportunistic. Yeah, really not seeing a distancing act here. I would be okay calling Basel town in this regard.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 6:57 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 5:34 PM, Basel Gill said:

Vote Thea. If you think that someone is posting conflicting conclusions, being a mess and unhelpful, then why aren't you voting that person? That counts as a scumtell in my book, and I'm finding it really weird that it doesn't ping for you.

 

Bolded: Are you saying that you agree with Theo's opinion regarding Vos but are voting her for not voting him although she pointed it out?

 

Here I am defending again

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 10:19 PM, WolfbrotherKronos said:

Theodora - I've not played with her, she's newer, could go either way on her right now, want to see how things progress on this one.

 

WBK calls her null. Not much to go on and now that Luci has replaced and Theo is already outted I doubt we'll get much more than this. Something to keep in mind for that slot though.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 12:20 AM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 11:10 PM, Basel Gill said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 6:57 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 5:34 PM, Basel Gill said:

Vote Thea. If you think that someone is posting conflicting conclusions, being a mess and unhelpful, then why aren't you voting that person? That counts as a scumtell in my book, and I'm finding it really weird that it doesn't ping for you.

 
Bolded: Are you saying that you agree with Theo's opinion regarding Vos but are voting her for not voting him although she pointed it out?

 

Both of you seem to be making the same misread of what I said. FOSing a person without voting them is one thing... FOSing them and then calling them town is something else. If she had given the list of stuff that she had issues with Vos about, and then said it pinged her or made her think he was scum but not voted, then I would feel that she wanted to hear a reply from him. Or maybe she wanted to hear what other people thought of her idea. Maybe she just wanted more data; there's nothing wrong in my book with simply wanting more info on someone. Instead she gave reasons why Vos was acting scummy, and then said she felt he was town.

 

 

That's the thing though, she didn't say Vos was scummy. She said his posts seem disorganized and all over the place (I'm paraphrasing) and not helpful. So either you are misinterpreting or misconstruing here purposefully.

 

Back to the first nested quote of mine, I don't think you really answered my question. Reading your reasonings as you voted Theo it looks like you are viewing her commentary on Vos as a scum-tell for his posts. But then you vote Theo for not finding it suspect? I don't understand this process. If you think Vos is exhibiting what you consider scummy behavior why wouldn't you vote him over Theo?

 

More defending.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 1:30 AM, Basel Gill said:

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 12:20 AM, Andrej said:

Back to the first nested quote of mine, I don't think you really answered my question. Reading your reasonings as you voted Theo it looks like you are viewing her commentary on Vos as a scum-tell for his posts. But then you vote Theo for not finding it suspect? I don't understand this process. If you think Vos is exhibiting what you consider scummy behavior why wouldn't you vote him over Theo?

I think I might have written that badly. I said they were scumtells to me, the only one I would really consider a likely scumtell is the conflicting conclusions because scum are trying to build up a misrepresentation of the truth and they commonly get stuck when something doesn't work consistently in their case. But her phrasing definitely gave me the idea that she considered them suspicious.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 10:36 AM, Despothera said:

Unvote, Vote Theo

 

Despo swaps to Theo, putting her at 3. I don't really see this as a distancing thing either, too early IMO. Some town points for Despo here.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 12:31 PM, TinaHel said:

The funny thing about Theo is that she did the same thing as Vos. Pointing out he is going in two directions while she is doing the same. I didn´t understand the initial pressure on Vos. Maybe it was because there was not much to comment on? I don´t know what to make of Theo´s comment. I kind of agree with Basel that it looked like she said that Vos was scummy but still got a town read on him. Maybe she just didn´t explain herself very good? Still weird that she hasn´t voted yet.

 

Tina's first commentary on Theo. Not really getting much out of this, points out Theo's lack of vote is weird which I agreed with.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 3:21 PM, TGlems said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 6:47 PM, Theodora said:

TGlens, I stated pretty clearly that I cannot be so sure as to put a vote on anyone at this point (not all of the people have even joined) but I am leaning more townie on Vos as he is trying to scum-hunt but myaybe in order to catch all the details, he is going in two opposite directions. To me this is not helpful. This is not necessarily scummy at this point.

 

 

I don't like placing votes ten times per day without a specific reason; than changing them to no avail. Like you are fishing and you are waiting for a fish to grab the bite and start a train. Well, you got Basel.

 

I see what you're trying to say in defense but I'm not sure I believe it. As for how often you vote...meh, different playstyles.

 

 

[Andrej]

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 3:44 PM, Theodora said:

I saw so far different people interpreting my words as scummy or putting words in my mouth.

 

This is what I meant when commenting Vos:

 

1. He is scum hunting but seems confused, so it does not help me with information.

2. Day1, I am doing the same usually and this is not a crime or a scum tell, thus leaning town on Vos for the moment

 

If this is enough for TG to vote me, good, there are always opportunistic scum and misled townies to bite.

 

Despo is looking for an easy lynch + he will be absent and votes me without stating a reason. Wow, Despo, are you lazy or you really believe some weak accusations?

 

I know how Golden plays and indeed he can come aggressive but this is just his style and if you vote him for this, then what do you say about TG's style of calling names? Also, I explained my reason for the comment on Vos'play and although Basel appeared scummy (TG's words), TG continues staying on me + accusing me of fake scum hunting.

 

I smell scum with such weak reasons, so

 

Vote TGlems

 

Theo's case on TG. Pretty evident now that this was trumped up but this is one of the reasons I wasn't a fan of TG's lynch.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 6:17 PM, Xthrax said:

Well, I've been going through what everyone said and I feel a certain vibe from what a few have said.

 

Theo- From her earlier post and what she summarized now of her current post

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 3:44 PM, Theodora said:

I saw so far different people interpreting my words as scummy or putting words in my mouth.

 

This is what I meant when commenting Vos:

 

1. He is scum hunting but seems confused, so it does not help me with information.

2. Day1, I am doing the same usually and this is not a crime or a scum tell, thus leaning town on Vos for the moment

 

If this is enough for TG to vote me, good, there are always opportunistic scum and misled townies to bite.

 

Despo is looking for an easy lynch + he will be absent and votes me without stating a reason. Wow, Despo, are you lazy or you really believe some weak accusations?

 

I know how Golden plays and indeed he can come aggressive but this is just his style and if you vote him for this, then what do you say about TG's style of calling names? Also, I explained my reason for the comment on Vos'play and although Basel appeared scummy (TG's words), TG continues staying on me + accusing me of fake scum hunting.

 

I smell scum with such weak reasons, so

 

Vote TGlems

  

It seems what she said was just misconstrued as seeming to be scum. All she said was that Vos appears to be confused, doesn't seem clear of what he appears to be. She doesn't seem to be scummy to me. 

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 10:35 AM, Despothera said:

This sucks. Deadline is in a day and a half but I prob won't get time to go into this thoroughly before I crash.

I see I'm the only vote on Err. I take back what I said- voting activity is NOT pleasing me now. We really haven't spread much true pressure around at all

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 10:36 AM, Despothera said:

Unvote, Vote Theo

 

Why all of a sudden a jump to Theo? If it's for spreading pressure around, there could have been a lot of people you picked.

 

Xthrax kind of defends here.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:11 PM, Despothera said:

Tina looks mega scummy right now. Her vote on GE WAS terrible, it looked more pike she was trying to say she was voting him because she didn't like his playstyle. Then when she gets called out for it, she tries to retroactively justify her vote better by quoting a bunch of others fos'ing GE. That just looks terrible. I think she's trying to defend a teammate in Theo.

Don't really like how Theo's holding up under pressure. Getting defensive and omgusy. Calls me out for trying to get an easy lynch... riiiight. It was obvious that I was trying to consolidate on someone to get the voting activity up again.

 

Despo explains his vote a bit on Theo.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:14 PM, Despothera said:

As for Vos, he's a player I'm waffling on somewhat, but inthe particular situation with TG and GE, iI didn't think GE came out looking worse at all. TG and Vos kept trying to justify going for in actives, I never found their reasoning held up.

Right now the players I'm wary of are Theo, Tina, Err, and TG.

 

Has Theo, Tina, Err and TG as his potential scum list. TG was town, I'm thinking Err is probtown. Theo is outted scum and then Tina. Not sure about her, still waiting on him to elaborate on her scum meta since I haven't seen scum-Tina. Should be noted that this isn't outside of Despo's scum meta to list his partners as scum reads, but again, I don't think he was distancing earlier when he voted her.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:51 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 12:31 PM, TinaHel said:

The funny thing about Theo is that she did the same thing as Vos. Pointing out he is going in two directions while she is doing the same. I didn´t understand the initial pressure on Vos. Maybe it was because there was not much to comment on? I don´t know what to make of Theo´s comment. I kind of agree with Basel that it looked like she said that Vos was scummy but still got a town read on him. Maybe she just didn´t explain herself very good? Still weird that she hasn´t voted yet.

 

RE Theo: I agree that it's a little weird that she was holding her vote for so long, but she explained she doesn't like throwing around a ton of votes on D1. I honestly didn't see anything necessarily scummy in regards to what she said about Vos. To me I read it as saying that he just looks like confused town, I didn't get the feel that she found him suspicious. The only thing that really stood out to me in that post was her mentioning of her joke vote on Despo and how she didn't bold it because it was too early. I don't understand the need to explain your joke vote.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:11 PM, Despothera said:

Tina looks mega scummy right now. Her vote on GE WAS terrible, it looked more pike she was trying to say she was voting him because she didn't like his playstyle. Then when she gets called out for it, she tries to retroactively justify her vote better by quoting a bunch of others fos'ing GE. That just looks terrible. I think she's trying to defend a teammate in Theo.

Don't really like how Theo's holding up under pressure. Getting defensive and omgusy. Calls me out for trying to get an easy lynch... riiiight. It was obvious that I was trying to consolidate on someone to get the voting activity up again.

 

In comparison to GE, I think Theo has held up reasonably well. How is her OMGUS voting TG any different than GE's OMGUS voting of Tina? Also, you say that it was obvious you were consolidating to generate voting activity. Why would that be obvious? You said nothing in the post besides the vote switch. You're assuming that other players are going to pick up on your thoughts without expressing them, so Theo saying you went for the easy vote is a legit statement. I sort of agree with her.

 

Defending Theo, AGAIN.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:53 PM, Andrej said:

I wanna go back at look at Theo and GE some more. Those two seem to be the prevailing wagons with DL tomorrow.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 9:41 PM, Andrej said:

So her OP's here and here come across pretty relaxed. The tongue-in-cheek OMGUS joke vote on Despo is sort of amusing. Here she adds a little commentary on the miller claim. Reads as basically a summation of the inherent WIFOM for that role's utility. Not really sure what the point of the 'Save Darthe Club' comment is though. This is where I mentioned earlier about her commentary in regards to her RVS on Despo. I don't really get why she felt the need to explain it. If it was meant as a joke vote than it shouldn't really need to be explained. Next is the commentary on Vos that she has been catching heat for. I didn't see anything necessarily scummy about it and still don't. To me it looks like she is saying that he appears confused and therefore not helpful, but more likely newbtown than scum. I think a lot of the misunderstanding stems from her sentence structure. I admit that some things she says come across a little awkwardly, but I think that can be chalked up to language barriers. Correct me if I'm wrong Theo, but English isn't your first language? Her response to TG is pretty good IMO. She clarifies her statement on Vos and points out Basel's vote, which I found sort of fishy as well. Lastly, her vote on TG. I'm not really following her on this one though. Could you clarify a bit more Theo?

 

My summary after ISO'ing GE and Theo. I point out that her talking about not wanting to bold her vote since it was still early was odd and that mostly I thought the misunderstanding came from her wording.

 

  On 1/27/2014 at 7:45 PM, TGlems said:

I'm on it for competing trains.  The people on my train seem to have the following reasons, summarized sarcastically by me:

 

Theo - OMGUS

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 1:20 AM, TGlems said:

Analyze my train overnight, there are scum to be found. 

 

The case on Theo was weak.

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 12:24 PM, Theodora said:

Damn, Re-read must be done. We have to be very careful now, not to have another wrong shot.

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 3:43 PM, nervositee said:

9. Theodora - Got a lot of heat for pointing out my play but not voting. Made a reasonable argument for it.

 

I'm taking this as a null read, not extremely telling either way.

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 4:37 PM, Xthrax said:

Theo-still really not clear on where she's heading.

 

Same here.

 

  On 1/29/2014 at 7:33 AM, Theodora said:

Err - he lives in another time zone, not Europe or USA and he said he would be away for a short time that is why I think he has not replied to the accusations. I do not think that at this point my vote would go to him just for the fact he started analyzing the game mechanics. To me it sounded more like "thinking aloud" but yet again it might have been a slip of the mafia team structure. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he appears and comments on the train.

 

Xthrax, Vos and AJ are the only people who try to do some real scum hunting and post their comments in a neat way. I do not necessarily agree with all of them but the goal is to provide information and I think they do well (leaning town). And AJ, no I don't speak the best of English, so if someone doesn't understand something, please ask. I appologise about that.

 

Darthe - still not convinced about his Miller PR. If I were scum and knowing Darthe usually gets viewed early in the game, what better claim than this with his first sentence. His protection for Basel, trying to divert attention to himself pings as well.

 

Despo - I don't see Despo in the game with his meta. He is voting and not commenting like we have seen him play when town. Maybe it's because he is into more than 1 mafia games or he tries the new tactics of lurking. The vote on me without any reason at all was just "brilliant"

 

Tina - I do not know what to think of her - a bit lurky but that is probably her style - sounds a bit over-defensive - null read for now.

 

Golden - I have seen him playing cop and playing scum and this is hi pro-town behaviour. I hope he would give some more explanations, though. I do not like a vote without a stated reason.

 

Anyway, I have my top scum read  in the face of Basel:

1. How quickly he jumped on my train (early Day 1) - very opportunistic move

2. When he saw the train building after Err - he made a consolidation vote

3. Votes Err right away (Day 2) because of the alleged diversion

4. Protects Darthe our "Miller" that he should be left to be a safe lynch later and now Darthe protects Basel, saying Basel votes suck. Looks like an artificial conversation to me.

 

That is all of his scum hunting until now and he presses for a quick lynch. These are enough reasons for me:

 

Vote Basel

 

Calls Vos, Xthrax and myself town reads. At this point Xthrax has defended her somewhat and I have pretty majorly. FOS's Darthe and Despo again, makes a null read on Tina then votes for Basel. This pretty much confirms Basel IMO.

 

  On 1/29/2014 at 10:56 AM, TinaHel said:

Theo - don´t have much oppionion of her but I agree with her about Des

 

Tina null reads Theo.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 12:12 AM, GoldeneyesND said:

That's a short deadline, so here's the guilty read I got last night:

 

unvote

Vote Theo

 

I wasn't too sure about Basel, he could be scum. It would make sense for Theo to jump on his train if she suspected he had been inspected, which is logical as I came into a new day period and voted him without explanation. Also, I enjoyed the list of reads from her we were gifted with. I'll post more in the morning so as not to tip off scum as to who I plan on investigating,

 

GE reveals his result. Not bad thinking with Basel, but at this point I really don't see them as partners based on their interactions. I don't think scum-Basel would've attacked Theo like that on D1 and her focus on him afterwards makes me think he is probtown.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 12:17 AM, Basel Gill said:

Well, gotta go with the guilty cop view.

Unvote. Vote Thea.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:51 AM, Despothera said:

Unvote, Vote Theo

I thought something had been off about her response to my somewhat jokey vote early day 1. Good call GE.

And yeah AJ, you DEF lynch the guilty viewing first. Confirms the Cop and confirms lack of a RB, possible lack of BD. Too valuable to pass up. Major FOS for trying to keep a summer alive another day.

Not a big fan of the commentary here about how you thought something was off and then complimenting GE.

 

 

 

In retrospect I look pretty bad here. I defended Theo early on against some votes that I found opportunistic and not really adding up (Basel). I should've been tipped off by how Theo never commented on my defense and instead continued to list me as a town read.

 

I was leaning town on Xthrax prior to doing a re-read but there are a few posts where he defends Theo as well and is also named as one of her town reads. His involvement in the TG lynch is kinda bad too.

 

Tina hasn't commented much on Theo in particular except for them both to call each other null reads. Her involvement early with GE and then later jumping onto the Err wagon does look sort of bad.

 

I think Basel is relatively cleared from being one of her partners based on the D1 interactions, although I still think he's played a scummy game. I don't get the distancing vibes although at the time I was pretty suspect of his vote and reasoning.

 

Despo I can't really decide on. His early vote doesn't seem like a distancing move because Theo wasn't in any real danger of getting lynched yet, but from what I know of his meta he will bus shamelessly. Not a big fan of his flip-flop on some of the later wagons and then his stance about GE's reveal. The reasons sound logical and townie enough, but good scum will often hide behind stuff like this to incriminate others. I also get the vibe that he wants to get this lynch over with quickly.

 

So in order I'd say I see Theo's possible teammates as Xthrax, Tina and then Despo.

 

[Andrej]

  On 1/30/2014 at 5:33 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 3:03 AM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:58 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:54 AM, Andrej said:

Those don't apply here Despo. This is what I'm talking about. Lynching the guilty perp just allows über-bussing.

 

For one he received a viewing so we know he wasn't RB'd. Secondly there isn't even a chance for a BD this game.

Bussing doesn't matter. It's not about an info lynch- its a guilty result. You burn it with fire till it stops moving. Till this point GE hasn't been confirmed, but a scum flip on so.some he viewed as scum will pretty much do so, which then pretty much confirms no RB'er

 

 

I get that, but I think this way Town can garner more information overall than just speed lynching the guilty view. We are basically going to have no way of determining which votes are legit town or bus votes. Like I said, she's already pegged and won't be going anywhere. Now I think we analyze her posts and those in regards to her and make an informed decision. Essentially I'm suggesting that if we do this right we could potentially lynch scum today and then still have her lined up for tomorrow.

 

Also, like I stated previously, the fact he even received a result should indicate there is no RBer.

 

I honestly see no point in questioning GE. We have a miller claim. To me this suggest the presence of a cop as well in order to utilize the miller's purpose. We have a cop claim and no CC. Now, do you think that one of GE or Darthe is lying? Or both? What are really the odds?

 

Bold: Exactly. It's not like there just ended up being a substantial case against Theo and people started hopping on- we got a guilty viewing from a cop. There's literally almost no reliable way to truly discern bus votes from normal ones. Hence, immediate vote train analysis won't be that fruitful, but the plus side is once you have Theo's flip, you can then go back and examine her interactions with other players, that sort of thing. Kind of a "don't count your eggs before they're hatched" sort of thing.

 

Italics: You're operating under way too many assumptions here. You're assuming that Theo will flip mafia, and not some third party type role like SK or something. If she is third party, she might not have teammates to link to. You're also assuming that as mafia she left evidence linking herself to other teammates, or that we would easily be able to figure out who those teammates might be. Theo is new, but she's still pretty sharp- I don't think it will be so easy to immediately find any partners she might have based on her posts, which could end up leading to a mislynch today before we've ever actually lynched scum. The worst assumption you're making however, is that just because she's "pegged" that she can no longer do any harm to town, but this isn't true by a long shot. She can be roled, and could have something nasty for all we know. And she could still wifom before she DOES actually die.

 

Point is, in this scenario, when you have a guilty result on someone, there's really nothing else to be done except lynch the target. Everything else comes after.

 

Underlined: I'm not questioning GE's claim, I never found him that scummy to begin with or anything. And as for Darthe, so far I have no objections to his play, and he did the best thing with a miller role (if that's what he is), by claiming up front, so I'm not really questioning his either. But I don't take either role as "confirmed" because that's just kind of a silly thing to do in a mafia game. Trust me, when you've seen as many bizarro setups and crazy gambits as I have, you learn not to ever take anything for granted. Seeing a scum flip on a guilty result from our claimed Cop will come pretty close to confirming him, but even that won't do it completely. Doesn't matter what the odds are, smart play is smart play.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 3:03 AM, Andrej said:

Your reasonings are fair but underneath that I'm getting the impression you want to get this lynch over with quickly Des, me-no-likey.

I actually would rather see her flip sooner rather than later, and I have no problem admitting that. Again, discerning bus votes from non-bus votes in this situation will be pretty futile no matter what. I'd rather see her flip so that we can then start analyzing the rest of the info. Looking for teammates will be pretty silly if she flips SK (I know I know, we haven't seen multiple kills yet, doesn't matter). What if she flips miller? What if she flips town, which would either cast doubt on our cop's role/sanity, or introduce the possibility of a Redirector or something that can tamper with investigation results? Not much point in trying to figure out all the ins and outs when we don't even have a flip on her yet. Doubt we'll see much other gameplay in the meantime, as far as people pushing lynches other than Theo. So again, might as well wrap this up.

 

 

Got ninja'd.

 

I guess you're pretty right with a lot of those points, I hadn't considered most and it's true that I am assuming a lot without actually getting her coroner. I don't think we'll see sanity issues in this game and there isn't a RDer listed but I hadn't really put much thought into her being 3rd party. The only role that I see that could tamper with someone's alignment on the scum team is a Framer, but like you already pointed out I'm jumping the gun here a bit. I wish I had seen this post before I went back and did all that damn work

 

Anyway, after you read my summary posts I'd like you to weigh in on them. Granted, now that you've pointed it out, I am assuming a lot but I also would like to think I went the simplest route by looking for mafia tells instead of adding in the extra process of 3rd party. I guess we'll see once she does actually get lynched and hopefully it will give us a good foot to step on starting D3 depending on who gets NK'd.

[hazelkrs1]

  On 1/30/2014 at 6:00 AM, Andrej said:

 

Got ninja'd.

 

I guess you're pretty right with a lot of those points, I hadn't considered most and it's true that I am assuming a lot without actually getting her coroner. I don't think we'll see sanity issues in this game and there isn't a RDer listed but I hadn't really put much thought into her being 3rd party. The only role that I see that could tamper with someone's alignment on the scum team is a Framer, but like you already pointed out I'm jumping the gun here a bit. I wish I had seen this post before I went back and did all that damn work

 

Anyway, after you read my summary posts I'd like you to weigh in on them. Granted, now that you've pointed it out, I am assuming a lot but I also would like to think I went the simplest route by looking for mafia tells instead of adding in the extra process of 3rd party. I guess we'll see once she does actually get lynched and hopefully it will give us a good foot to step on starting D3 depending on who gets NK'd.

 

I doubt we'll see sanity issues as well, and I think it's more likely that she's mafia instead of third party, with an extremely low chance of her flipping town I'd say. I was pretty much playing Devil's Advocate with a couple of those points. My main point was that once there's a guilty result posted, there's not much point in dragging out the lynch since scum is not likely to push a countertrain or anything. And finding the scum's "partner" is kinda jumping the gun, better to lynch surefire scum than mebbe scum.

 

I skimmed through the summary posts tbh- not cause I'm a jerk but because I'm doing a reread tonight anyways. But fwiw I got a strong town read on you atm, so Id say there's prob some good stuff in there. And I already think Tina looks scummy, so moar evidence supporting that won't throw me off lol.

[Andrej]

Almost forgot.

 

unvote

 

I'm going to bed. I've got class a bit later tomorrow morning so I'll be able to check in before I leave and I'm free for the weekend.

 

I'd like some more opinions on my idea but I guess if no one agrees then we'll proceed with the Theo lynch

[Nolder]

Votecount

Err - Darthe (1)

Des - Tina (1)

Tina - Des (1)

Theo - Goldeneyes, Basel (2)

Basel - Nervositee, Theo (2)

 

 

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140130T12&p0=137

[Niniel]

This time I totally agree with Des. One of the listed possible roles is cult leader. I would argue that we should kill mafia right away as well but when we have possible cult it´s very important to lynch someone that our cop got a guilty view on. What could we gain by not lynching Theo? Discussion? Everything that Theo says will be WIFOM. Mafia/cult won´t slip now that everyone knows that Theo isn´t town anyway. 

 

Unvote. Vote Theo

[nervositee]

I'll be around today, but it's a quite busy day so no promises. I thought about and I think the longer we wait to lynch Theo the worse, because everything written after her guilty read can more or less be disregarded. Scum won't protect an outed scum, and will for now probably behave just like another townie, so we get a whole load of WIFOM at best. 

 

Unvote; Vote Theo

[Nolder]

Votecount

Err - Darthe (1)

Tina - Des (1)

Basel - Theo (1)

Theo - Goldeneyes, Basel, Tina, Nervositee (4)

 

 

 

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140130T12&p0=137

[Babar Hasan Khan]

vote Theo

 

m rereading things too.... but basel is now looking less and less scummy

[Xthrax]

^ Indeed. I had suspicion on Basel as scummy but he has defended himself well. Looks like leaning town

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 5:45 AM, Andrej said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 3:44 PM, Theodora said:

I saw so far different people interpreting my words as scummy or putting words in my mouth.

 

This is what I meant when commenting Vos:

 

1. He is scum hunting but seems confused, so it does not help me with information.

2. Day1, I am doing the same usually and this is not a crime or a scum tell, thus leaning town on Vos for the moment

 

If this is enough for TG to vote me, good, there are always opportunistic scum and misled townies to bite.

 

Despo is looking for an easy lynch + he will be absent and votes me without stating a reason. Wow, Despo, are you lazy or you really believe some weak accusations?

 

I know how Golden plays and indeed he can come aggressive but this is just his style and if you vote him for this, then what do you say about TG's style of calling names? Also, I explained my reason for the comment on Vos'play and although Basel appeared scummy (TG's words), TG continues staying on me + accusing me of fake scum hunting.

 

I smell scum with such weak reasons, so

 

Vote TGlems

 

Theo's case on TG. Pretty evident now that this was trumped up but this is one of the reasons I wasn't a fan of TG's lynch.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 6:17 PM, Xthrax said:

Well, I've been going through what everyone said and I feel a certain vibe from what a few have said.

 

Theo- From her earlier post and what she summarized now of her current post

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 3:44 PM, Theodora said:

I saw so far different people interpreting my words as scummy or putting words in my mouth.

 

This is what I meant when commenting Vos:

 

1. He is scum hunting but seems confused, so it does not help me with information.

2. Day1, I am doing the same usually and this is not a crime or a scum tell, thus leaning town on Vos for the moment

 

If this is enough for TG to vote me, good, there are always opportunistic scum and misled townies to bite.

 

Despo is looking for an easy lynch + he will be absent and votes me without stating a reason. Wow, Despo, are you lazy or you really believe some weak accusations?

 

I know how Golden plays and indeed he can come aggressive but this is just his style and if you vote him for this, then what do you say about TG's style of calling names? Also, I explained my reason for the comment on Vos'play and although Basel appeared scummy (TG's words), TG continues staying on me + accusing me of fake scum hunting.

 

I smell scum with such weak reasons, so

 

Vote TGlems

  

It seems what she said was just misconstrued as seeming to be scum. All she said was that Vos appears to be confused, doesn't seem clear of what he appears to be. She doesn't seem to be scummy to me. 

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 10:35 AM, Despothera said:

This sucks. Deadline is in a day and a half but I prob won't get time to go into this thoroughly before I crash.

I see I'm the only vote on Err. I take back what I said- voting activity is NOT pleasing me now. We really haven't spread much true pressure around at all

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 10:36 AM, Despothera said:

Unvote, Vote Theo

 

Why all of a sudden a jump to Theo? If it's for spreading pressure around, there could have been a lot of people you picked.

 

Xthrax kind of defends here.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:11 PM, Despothera said:

Tina looks mega scummy right now. Her vote on GE WAS terrible, it looked more pike she was trying to say she was voting him because she didn't like his playstyle. Then when she gets called out for it, she tries to retroactively justify her vote better by quoting a bunch of others fos'ing GE. That just looks terrible. I think she's trying to defend a teammate in Theo.

Don't really like how Theo's holding up under pressure. Getting defensive and omgusy. Calls me out for trying to get an easy lynch... riiiight. It was obvious that I was trying to consolidate on someone to get the voting activity up again.

 

Despo explains his vote a bit on Theo.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:14 PM, Despothera said:

As for Vos, he's a player I'm waffling on somewhat, but inthe particular situation with TG and GE, iI didn't think GE came out looking worse at all. TG and Vos kept trying to justify going for in actives, I never found their reasoning held up.

Right now the players I'm wary of are Theo, Tina, Err, and TG.

 

Has Theo, Tina, Err and TG as his potential scum list. TG was town, I'm thinking Err is probtown. Theo is outted scum and then Tina. Not sure about her, still waiting on him to elaborate on her scum meta since I haven't seen scum-Tina. Should be noted that this isn't outside of Despo's scum meta to list his partners as scum reads, but again, I don't think he was distancing earlier when he voted her.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:51 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 12:31 PM, TinaHel said:

The funny thing about Theo is that she did the same thing as Vos. Pointing out he is going in two directions while she is doing the same. I didn´t understand the initial pressure on Vos. Maybe it was because there was not much to comment on? I don´t know what to make of Theo´s comment. I kind of agree with Basel that it looked like she said that Vos was scummy but still got a town read on him. Maybe she just didn´t explain herself very good? Still weird that she hasn´t voted yet.

 

RE Theo: I agree that it's a little weird that she was holding her vote for so long, but she explained she doesn't like throwing around a ton of votes on D1. I honestly didn't see anything necessarily scummy in regards to what she said about Vos. To me I read it as saying that he just looks like confused town, I didn't get the feel that she found him suspicious. The only thing that really stood out to me in that post was her mentioning of her joke vote on Despo and how she didn't bold it because it was too early. I don't understand the need to explain your joke vote.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:11 PM, Despothera said:

Tina looks mega scummy right now. Her vote on GE WAS terrible, it looked more pike she was trying to say she was voting him because she didn't like his playstyle. Then when she gets called out for it, she tries to retroactively justify her vote better by quoting a bunch of others fos'ing GE. That just looks terrible. I think she's trying to defend a teammate in Theo.

Don't really like how Theo's holding up under pressure. Getting defensive and omgusy. Calls me out for trying to get an easy lynch... riiiight. It was obvious that I was trying to consolidate on someone to get the voting activity up again.

 

In comparison to GE, I think Theo has held up reasonably well. How is her OMGUS voting TG any different than GE's OMGUS voting of Tina? Also, you say that it was obvious you were consolidating to generate voting activity. Why would that be obvious? You said nothing in the post besides the vote switch. You're assuming that other players are going to pick up on your thoughts without expressing them, so Theo saying you went for the easy vote is a legit statement. I sort of agree with her.

 

Defending Theo, AGAIN.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 7:53 PM, Andrej said:

I wanna go back at look at Theo and GE some more. Those two seem to be the prevailing wagons with DL tomorrow.

 

  On 1/26/2014 at 9:41 PM, Andrej said:

So her OP's here and here come across pretty relaxed. The tongue-in-cheek OMGUS joke vote on Despo is sort of amusing. Here she adds a little commentary on the miller claim. Reads as basically a summation of the inherent WIFOM for that role's utility. Not really sure what the point of the 'Save Darthe Club' comment is though. This is where I mentioned earlier about her commentary in regards to her RVS on Despo. I don't really get why she felt the need to explain it. If it was meant as a joke vote than it shouldn't really need to be explained. Next is the commentary on Vos that she has been catching heat for. I didn't see anything necessarily scummy about it and still don't. To me it looks like she is saying that he appears confused and therefore not helpful, but more likely newbtown than scum. I think a lot of the misunderstanding stems from her sentence structure. I admit that some things she says come across a little awkwardly, but I think that can be chalked up to language barriers. Correct me if I'm wrong Theo, but English isn't your first language? Her response to TG is pretty good IMO. She clarifies her statement on Vos and points out Basel's vote, which I found sort of fishy as well. Lastly, her vote on TG. I'm not really following her on this one though. Could you clarify a bit more Theo?

 

My summary after ISO'ing GE and Theo. I point out that her talking about not wanting to bold her vote since it was still early was odd and that mostly I thought the misunderstanding came from her wording.

 

  On 1/27/2014 at 7:45 PM, TGlems said:

I'm on it for competing trains.  The people on my train seem to have the following reasons, summarized sarcastically by me:

 

Theo - OMGUS

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 1:20 AM, TGlems said:

Analyze my train overnight, there are scum to be found. 

 

The case on Theo was weak.

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 12:24 PM, Theodora said:

Damn, Re-read must be done. We have to be very careful now, not to have another wrong shot.

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 3:43 PM, nervositee said:

9. Theodora - Got a lot of heat for pointing out my play but not voting. Made a reasonable argument for it.

 

I'm taking this as a null read, not extremely telling either way.

 

  On 1/28/2014 at 4:37 PM, Xthrax said:

Theo-still really not clear on where she's heading.

 

Same here.

 

  On 1/29/2014 at 7:33 AM, Theodora said:

Err - he lives in another time zone, not Europe or USA and he said he would be away for a short time that is why I think he has not replied to the accusations. I do not think that at this point my vote would go to him just for the fact he started analyzing the game mechanics. To me it sounded more like "thinking aloud" but yet again it might have been a slip of the mafia team structure. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he appears and comments on the train.

 

Xthrax, Vos and AJ are the only people who try to do some real scum hunting and post their comments in a neat way. I do not necessarily agree with all of them but the goal is to provide information and I think they do well (leaning town). And AJ, no I don't speak the best of English, so if someone doesn't understand something, please ask. I appologise about that.

 

Darthe - still not convinced about his Miller PR. If I were scum and knowing Darthe usually gets viewed early in the game, what better claim than this with his first sentence. His protection for Basel, trying to divert attention to himself pings as well.

 

Despo - I don't see Despo in the game with his meta. He is voting and not commenting like we have seen him play when town. Maybe it's because he is into more than 1 mafia games or he tries the new tactics of lurking. The vote on me without any reason at all was just "brilliant"

 

Tina - I do not know what to think of her - a bit lurky but that is probably her style - sounds a bit over-defensive - null read for now.

 

Golden - I have seen him playing cop and playing scum and this is hi pro-town behaviour. I hope he would give some more explanations, though. I do not like a vote without a stated reason.

 

Anyway, I have my top scum read  in the face of Basel:

1. How quickly he jumped on my train (early Day 1) - very opportunistic move

2. When he saw the train building after Err - he made a consolidation vote

3. Votes Err right away (Day 2) because of the alleged diversion

4. Protects Darthe our "Miller" that he should be left to be a safe lynch later and now Darthe protects Basel, saying Basel votes suck. Looks like an artificial conversation to me.

 

That is all of his scum hunting until now and he presses for a quick lynch. These are enough reasons for me:

 

Vote Basel

 

Calls Vos, Xthrax and myself town reads. At this point Xthrax has defended her somewhat and I have pretty majorly. FOS's Darthe and Despo again, makes a null read on Tina then votes for Basel. This pretty much confirms Basel IMO.

 

  On 1/29/2014 at 10:56 AM, TinaHel said:

Theo - don´t have much oppionion of her but I agree with her about Des

 

Tina null reads Theo.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 12:12 AM, GoldeneyesND said:

That's a short deadline, so here's the guilty read I got last night:

 

unvote

Vote Theo

 

I wasn't too sure about Basel, he could be scum. It would make sense for Theo to jump on his train if she suspected he had been inspected, which is logical as I came into a new day period and voted him without explanation. Also, I enjoyed the list of reads from her we were gifted with. I'll post more in the morning so as not to tip off scum as to who I plan on investigating,

 

GE reveals his result. Not bad thinking with Basel, but at this point I really don't see them as partners based on their interactions. I don't think scum-Basel would've attacked Theo like that on D1 and her focus on him afterwards makes me think he is probtown.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 12:17 AM, Basel Gill said:

Well, gotta go with the guilty cop view.

Unvote. Vote Thea.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 1:51 AM, Despothera said:

Unvote, Vote Theo

I thought something had been off about her response to my somewhat jokey vote early day 1. Good call GE.

And yeah AJ, you DEF lynch the guilty viewing first. Confirms the Cop and confirms lack of a RB, possible lack of BD. Too valuable to pass up. Major FOS for trying to keep a summer alive another day.

Not a big fan of the commentary here about how you thought something was off and then complimenting GE.

 

 

 

In retrospect I look pretty bad here. I defended Theo early on against some votes that I found opportunistic and not really adding up (Basel). I should've been tipped off by how Theo never commented on my defense and instead continued to list me as a town read.

 

I was leaning town on Xthrax prior to doing a re-read but there are a few posts where he defends Theo as well and is also named as one of her town reads. His involvement in the TG lynch is kinda bad too.

 

Tina hasn't commented much on Theo in particular except for them both to call each other null reads. Her involvement early with GE and then later jumping onto the Err wagon does look sort of bad.

 

I think Basel is relatively cleared from being one of her partners based on the D1 interactions, although I still think he's played a scummy game. I don't get the distancing vibes although at the time I was pretty suspect of his vote and reasoning.

 

Despo I can't really decide on. His early vote doesn't seem like a distancing move because Theo wasn't in any real danger of getting lynched yet, but from what I know of his meta he will bus shamelessly. Not a big fan of his flip-flop on some of the later wagons and then his stance about GE's reveal. The reasons sound logical and townie enough, but good scum will often hide behind stuff like this to incriminate others. I also get the vibe that he wants to get this lynch over with quickly.

 

So in order I'd say I see Theo's possible teammates as Xthrax, Tina and then Despo.

 

Oh, so I'm listed as top scum teammate just cause I defended Theo. Her reasons looked valid at that time so I believe it wasn't a mistake to believe her to be town.

 

Just look at the italics part-Acc. to you people who have defended Theo could be scum. And there wasn't a greater defender than you. You yourself say I defended her somewhat and then you majorly. So you by your own theory should be major scum here and most likely her teammate. You say that you look bad, and then go on to say we who have defended Theo in lesser degrees are more scummier. Please tell how that logic works

 

And sensible thing to do would have been to vote Theo after Golden gave her a read as scum since he claims to be a cop. After your huge post, you instead proceeded to unvote but not place your vote their. Like Tina said, what could we gain by not lynching her? First we lynch the scum we suspect highly then go for her unknown teammate.

 

I'm gonna vote Theo 'cause of the read by the cop and reading back she seems scummier. But I suspect you to be her other teammate. We'll see that after this lynch.

[Xthrax]

Vote Theodora

[nervositee]

Hammer dropped then. 

 

Still a bit puzzled over AJs arguments, but I think it'd be too risky a plan to resist a confirmed scums lynch if he was her team-mate. 

Just like the Basel-Theo interactions would probably be too risky if they were team-mates, so I'm back to null-ish on him, even though I don't clear him by any means. They could very well have decided it was early enough in the game to see at as a low-risk distancing move. So still suspicious, but won't be advocating his lynch just yet. 

[Andrej]

In between classes atm. Multi-quoting from the phone is a serious PITA.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 7:51 AM, TinaHel said:

This time I totally agree with Des. One of the listed possible roles is cult leader. I would argue that we should kill mafia right away as well but when we have possible cult it´s very important to lynch someone that our cop got a guilty view on. What could we gain by not lynching Theo? Discussion? Everything that Theo says will be WIFOM. Mafia/cult won´t slip now that everyone knows that Theo isn´t town anyway. 

 

Unvote. Vote Theo

 

I don't think we'll be seeing a cult this game.

 

  On 1/30/2014 at 2:47 PM, Xthrax said:

Oh, so I'm listed as top scum teammate just cause I defended Theo. Her reasons looked valid at that time so I believe it wasn't a mistake to believe her to be town.

 

Just look at the italics part-Acc. to you people who have defended Theo could be scum. And there wasn't a greater defender than you. You yourself say I defended her somewhat and then you majorly. So you by your own theory should be major scum here and most likely her teammate. You say that you look bad, and then go on to say we who have defended Theo in lesser degrees are more scummier. Please tell how that logic works

 

And sensible thing to do would have been to vote Theo after Golden gave her a read as scum since he claims to be a cop. After your huge post, you instead proceeded to unvote but not place your vote their. Like Tina said, what could we gain by not lynching her? First we lynch the scum we suspect highly then go for her unknown teammate.

 

I'm gonna vote Theo 'cause of the read by the cop and reading back she seems scummier. But I suspect you to be her other teammate. We'll see that after this lynch.

 

I agree with you that at the time I didn't find Theo very suspicious and was more wary of those who were voting her. I questioned several people in order to get them to clarify and I think I explained pretty well why I didn't think she was all that suspicious.

 

It's true that I defended her pretty heavily and I am not trying to deny that. I am aware of how that will make me look in retrospect. You are missing a major piece of my thought process however because as I read back on her interactions I know that I am not her teammate. Make sense? So yes, while it's true that I defended her I also did so without knowing what her alignment was. If I get lynched for it then I suppose that's my own fault and there isn't much I can do about that. But in the meantime, knowing that I'm not her teammate, I am looking for other connections that could be found. I noticed that you defended her as well so it is a place to look.

 

I unvoted because I wanted to wait until people checked in to see if they agreed with my idea. Obviously not and seeing as how this is the first time I've been able to post today I find your point irrelevant because she was hammered hours ago. Now it's just a waiting game until we get her results from Nolder.

 

I'll be out of class around 3PM my time and have the weekend off so I should be able to post more. I think tonight will be pretty pivotal if GE can clear/condemn another player come morning. The NK should shed some light as well as the player pool continues to shrink.