[Basic] Blood Moon Mafia - Game Over.

[Tommyrod]

Hallia

 

Are you voting me because you genuinely think I'm scum

 

Or because you're mad at me

 

I am sorry if I offended you on a personal level but I just find it hard to believe that I could have

 

Why do you trust golden completely?

 

Why did you say it was all town on Mish's wagon if you didn't clear Cloud until now?

[Hallia]

I don't get mad ^_^ but I do think you're scum

[Tommyrod]

Okay

I don't get mad ^_^ but I do think you're scum

Why did you storm off because I called you a bad player then

 

And I'll let you in on a secret

 

Don't tell anyone

 

I'm not scum

[Hallia]

I do t trust Golden completely, because that'd be silly! I think giving to work isn't the same as storming off. Are you ever going to respond to when I wrote back to you?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Hallia, what do you make of the case against Mish?

 

 

 

It's early morning in Hallialand, I just got up and reread the thread, but I've gotta walk out the door to go to work, I'll post my thoughts on my lunch break.  However, @Tommy  I wasn't impressed with her response, but Despo's response was a null to me because I've seen him as mafia just go after me, but he would know that, so he could either actually be glad that I'm posting more, or just buddying.  Not sure yet either way.

 

 

Unvote

 

Vote Mish

 

^ I did respond, and subsequently voted her because I no longer found my main scum read to be so bad, so I went to my next one.

 

Hallia's vote caught my eye more for her lack of developed reasoning... it just seems to appear.

 

We'd been going back and for for a few pages, not sure how it just appeared?

 

 

Tommy is town, he didn't call me a crappy player for opening with "yo." He does that as scum.

 

^ Grabbed this because it caught my eye upon reread.  I know peace is on LoA so it could be nothing, but early on buddying like this with a bogus reason for saying someone is town is suspicious for me.  In the highly unlikely event that Mish is town, I'd poke around here.

 

 

Hallia's Mish vote pinged me and she's been precariously off topic since then, yet nobody is taking her to task for that. Why?  Because there was other stuff to talk about?  I also did continue, because I brought up how scummy her later OMGSUS vote on me was.  

When I look at them all together, I see a very flat attempt at scumhunting, at best.  I'm terribly sorry you feel that way.  You  don't know me, so for me I think I've been doing great this game.

The Despot vote, for one. If she is genuinely concerned with Despot's alignment, would she not question his motives? Interact with him in any way at all?  I did interact with him?  I saw elsewhere things that grabbed my attention more.  Minds change all the time.

She then jumps to Des because his response was... null? And because she thinks Mish is scummier now for "gut" reasons. I think the lie detector trap idea is ludicrous. I am town and it caught my attention. How you would know that only scum would make that a talking point is absurd.

I didn't say that only scum would make it a talking point, I said only scum would get tripped up by it.  I also didn't read the setup until last night, sue meh!

The "no one hammered" line is only good if we know the wagon has no scum in it. One or both of the wolves could have been; we don't know yet. I say this is bad logic.   Or one was the wolf, and her teammate was reluctant to hammer her.

She then more or less exits from the arena.  I said where I was going (work) and also posted on my lunch break.  Gotta work to make a livin' good sir!

There's a lot of misinformed logic at play in her reasoning... and what I see as underdeveloped and opportunistic voting. I don't know her well enough to say this couldn't be her (lousy) town game, so I would like all other players to comment on her post history.  Again, you don't know me.  I think my play is much better, so to call it lousy is where I decided to avoid you.

Meanwhile, I am sufficiently suspicious to apply pressure where I think pressure is due.Vote Hallia

Looking forward to the subsequent discussion.

 

I see you unvoted me later, do you no longer see me as scum?

 

Time to respond

 

1. I still don't understand what Despot did to get less scummy and what Mish did to get more scummy to merit your vote. You said both of those players had null responses. So why the big shift?

 

2. Your back and forth with Mish was mostly about how you think she disrespects your style. That has barely anything to do with this game. I find it suspicious when people use out of game reasoning to suspect people because it's a good place for mafia to hide by not leaving their fake in thread justifications in the thread if they can get uppity about something outside the game instead.

 

3. I agree Peace clearing me for meta is weird, but apparently it's just a joke according to Des; but it's part of what sparked my anti meta persona

 

4. The problem with this is you still haven't explained why Mish's in-thread behavior was more suspicious than Des. You said it was "gut" from "null posts" by the two of them. You LATER justified the vote by saying Mish OMGUS'd you and must be scum. That doesn't count.

 

5. Maybe you are playing well for you, but that makes me feel like it's possible you're being coached.

 

6. You didn't interrogate Despot or anything. You just voted him for voting Salami and then dropped him for Mish for reasons that still aren't clear to me.

 

7. I still think the lie detector "trap" is stupid and doesn't strike me as something you, personally, would do... but maybe I'm wrong. Not a big point anyway.

 

8. Why did you assume there were zero scum on Mish's wagon without discussing your thoughts on the people on it prior to that statement? You didn't clear Cloud until just now, he was on it; you had Des as a scum read just moments before, he was on it, you haven't discussed Golden at all IIRC. So how can you say Mish must be scum if there's no scum on it? Seems like a preposterous statement.

 

9. I can't say much about you playing better or not.

 

10. As I said before, you're a good scum candidate, but Golden seems more obvious.

[michellem]

Tommy, she IS being coached; she's mentored by Leelou.

 

 

Ok I've only skimmed the posts after I was on last night to catch up. I'm gonna go through my other games too, so I'll be back later with proper thougths. I'm still not feeling too good but I'm well enough to play a bit at least, especially since we have a deadline. So longer post in a few hours.

[Tommyrod]

Oh. I didn't even realize we had mentors again. Fail.

 

That doesn't strike dead my other points, but that could explain the attitude.

 

I think Golden is the best lynch anyway.

[Andrej]

Vote Count 1.14

 

Mish (1) - Cloud

Hallia (1) - Mish

Goldeneyes (2) - Csarmi, Tommy

Tommy (3) - GE, Despo, Hallia

 

Not Voting: Peace, Alanna

 

5 to lynch. 13 hours until Nightfall.

[Tommyrod]

Hallia I beseech thee to not mislynch me today

 

I think Golden is taking advantage of you

[Alanna]

Just to clarify what I said about Tommy being aggressive - and then I'm going to drop it and try to put it aside, because I think my annoyance with him is clouding my read on him, so it's not very helpful right now -

 

I don't have a problem with aggressive styles in general, and my problem with Tommy so far is not really that he's aggressive - it's that he's clearly online a lot of the time, certainly a lot more than I am, so it was starting to feel like every time I came online, he was asking me again for updated reads or more questions about others. I'm sorry, I find it incredibly annoying. I posted my general reads Wednesday night, and then when I woke up Thursday morning, he was asking me again for reads. That was frustrating to me; I don't know if he didn't read my post to begin with, or if he actually wanted me to post again how I felt less than 12 hours later, when I had been asleep.

 

I know I haven't been super active, but I have made several posts contributing to the game so far, and he's acting like I haven't said anything at all. He's never made any kind of response to what I have said, except to repeat his demand that I answer his questions and/or make a post with my reads on all players.

 

Anyway. /end rant. The whole thing has me totally unable to even guess at this point if he's scum or town - if he's town, I don't find what he's doing helpful. But maybe that's just me, and I should just get over it. I have been kind of cranky this week, for some reason.

 

Anyway, I have only skimmed up to here, so I'm going to go back and try to read through again. Could be soonish, could be in a few hours - I'm at work right now.

[Tommyrod]

Alanna, I am used to games on faster forums like 2+2 POG that put post caps of 150 posts per player per real life day because a lot of the players will use up that entire quota if not capped

 

Imagine this is the stock market and DM does long term investment. I day trade. I can see it being annoying but it's a good way to catch scum slipping when they can't remember their own reads from day to day.

 

Compared to me it feels like you're not even in this game. That makes me nervous. But I get being busy with RL stuff.

 

Sorry

[Alanna]

Well, I apologize if I was ever too mean about it. I don't like to make meta or RL excuses because the fact is, no one really has any reason to believe them, but I have been super cranky the past few days for some reason, and this level of play on Day 1 is very normal for me.

 

Anyway. I'm still catching up, but some current thoughts so far - now that I've calmed down a little, I do find Golden's freak-out over Tommy's case on Hallia a little weird. I haven't really played with him before, so I have no idea how he normally plays, and like I said, I was getting a little annoyed with Tommy too, at that point. But he seemed to take it really far, saying that what Tommy was doing to Hallia was "awful." IDK. Maybe he was just really cranky too, but it really was kind of weird. I just can't decide if it means he's scummy. The one other game I saw him play in, he seemed like a pretty intelligent player, so it just seems like a big goof to me to get so riled up, if he is scum. But I don't know, maybe I give everyone too much credit

 

I'm feeling Hallia is town. I think she's trying to play more vocally in this game and try some new stuff; this especially makes sense to me if Leelou the BAMF is mentoring her ;)

 

I'm still feeling pretty town about Cloud, although I don't believe he's really posted much since I last posted my reads. Feeling pretty good about peace as well, and I have a pretty town read for Despo now, too, though I will admit that's mostly a gut feeling.

 

I'm going to read back for more on Csarmi and Mish.

[GoldeneyesND]

Des, regarding your case on me above: I don't know why you seem to be missing the point that I am purposefully playing in a way that challenges the idea of meta. I'm sick of meta being a large chunk of arguments for cases, because meta can easily be changed by an intelligent player, and I'll be blunt -- you guys don't really know me or know what I'm capable of as either alignment. So for you or Golden to use the argument "town Tommy would never do this" or "scum Tommy says that" is to get yourself tripped up over what I want you to think. You may not understand this concept right this second, but Salami seems to have picked up on my shift, and I think you will get my point by the end of the game. If you're not just scum trying to find easy excuses to hang me then you'll be really surprised when you see I'm town, and the downfall of your cases will have been your reliance on meta reads of me. These early posts really made me laugh and facepalm at the same time:

 

 

 

vote Tommy

 

for trying to act "cute" with his first couple posts

 

Here's my issue with the bolded portion. Meta can change, but you can usually pick up on subtle things, so this argument, while used by many, is inherently flawed. General meta can and should be disregarded, smaller things should and are indicators. I agree you're an intelligent player, but you're playing obstinately. Read any of my games and you'd know I'll go off on anyone regardless of my alignment if they 1-try and get in a pissing contest with me or 2-instruct me to do anything. As an intelligent player, it should be obvious to you that if you poke some people with a stick, they will respond in kind. The constant "I don't understand why you're ignoring me/acting like this" posts are fairly insulting to your own intelligence. You're trolling me cause you want a reaction and I'm happy to oblige.

 

 

Not disagreeing it can be useful

 

As a supplement

 

Not as a main case

 

Golden has been coming after me for two primary reasons

 

My meta is off

 

And I attacked Hallia

 

And you seem to believe I'm scum because I wouldn't do this stuff as town

 

You also came at me when I was town with similar reasoning (Tom is being lazy; he's scum!) in another game. You know the one

 

So I beseech the, noble players of DM, to cast off your meta shackles

 

And embrace the borderline sociopathy that is Tom's top tier mafia madness

 

Focus on the evidence, the timing, the reasoning, and see if there's a way to make it all congruent

 

If meta contradicts that, check again

 

But don't ignore thread logic and champion meta reads over it

 

Cuz you ain't even know me like dat

 

And it's boring

 

Maybe my crusade is a distraction

 

But too many people made goofy meta comments right to start

 

Peace clearing me was ridiculous

 

Des and Golden burying me for being different is ridiculous

 

Mish saying scum Des wouldn't be the second vote on someone is ridiculous

 

And on and on

 

For town meta can be useful to start

 

But for scum it's often just an easy scapegoat

 

Fight the present, not the past

 

And keep it real, yo

You're way smarter than to consistently misrep why I focused on you. I've told you my issue with you this game is that I see you picking on a player who you think is low hanging fruit. That much is obvious. I don't particularly enjoy the "answer me now", "why aren't you answering me" posts, it's obnoxious. 

 

Upon taking a day and rereading the whole thread I believe I transferred some of the antagonism I felt towards you into my read of Mish. True, her gameplay was less than stellar and she did several things I equate with scum behavior, but in retrospect her initial comment to Hallia sounds like an attempt at humor gone wrong and then just an awkward recovery trying to save face. As such, you are my scum read for the constant misrepping/troling of my convo with you and the ridiculously misplaced amount of pressure you believe you need to put on Hallia. As I've said, if you're town as you claim, the rep you claim as a good player/scumhunter is obviously a mirage, cause you've spent 70% of your game arguing with me and I'm so town. When Tommy flips scum I'll have a permasmile for a day.

[Tommyrod]

My last game I was scum with Golden. He got lynches D1 but was good at distancing from his partners. It helped us win at the end.

 

But he wasn't particularly good at not being scummy. Someone (I forget who) pegged him almost immediately as scum because he was simply not making sense. The argument was that as town Golden is articulate and well reasoned, as scum he just rams into things.

 

Which would you say he's doing now? I know my answer.

[Tommyrod]

Golden I simply don't believe you're town because every argument you've used to pin me as scum is nearly the exact thing you've accused me of doing that's scummy

 

In short, we're both hypocrites. But I know I am town, I do not know you are town. I find it extremely hard to believe you.

 

Let's try this: assume we're both town. I doubt Mish is scum, but if she is there will be one other.

 

Who else is a good scum candidate to you?

[GoldeneyesND]

Well, I apologize if I was ever too mean about it. I don't like to make meta or RL excuses because the fact is, no one really has any reason to believe them, but I have been super cranky the past few days for some reason, and this level of play on Day 1 is very normal for me.

 

Anyway. I'm still catching up, but some current thoughts so far - now that I've calmed down a little, I do find Golden's freak-out over Tommy's case on Hallia a little weird. I haven't really played with him before, so I have no idea how he normally plays, and like I said, I was getting a little annoyed with Tommy too, at that point. But he seemed to take it really far, saying that what Tommy was doing to Hallia was "awful." IDK. Maybe he was just really cranky too, but it really was kind of weird. I just can't decide if it means he's scummy. The one other game I saw him play in, he seemed like a pretty intelligent player, so it just seems like a big goof to me to get so riled up, if he is scum. But I don't know, maybe I give everyone too much credit

 

I'm feeling Hallia is town. I think she's trying to play more vocally in this game and try some new stuff; this especially makes sense to me if Leelou the BAMF is mentoring her ;)

 

I'm still feeling pretty town about Cloud, although I don't believe he's really posted much since I last posted my reads. Feeling pretty good about peace as well, and I have a pretty town read for Despo now, too, though I will admit that's mostly a gut feeling.

 

I'm going to read back for more on Csarmi and Mish.

I find that I enjoy toying with my levels of emotion, I generally play aggressively. That said, I have a pet peeve for people who make a meal of logical fallacies. Tommy's comments like "you copy your questions and stances down for me and I'll do the same for you so we can answer them" followed by fos'ing me when I showed up in the thread and told him I was ready for his questions is a perfect example of the passive aggressive play I've been getting from him. I've asked him questions and yet his response to me is generally "OMG why aren't you answering MY questions, why are you being so evasive." Anyone who has had to deal with people like this in real life knows how ridiculous and annoying this general attitude is. Sadly, because they are so off-putting, these fake-offended people usually get their own way. I like to deal with them by trolling and pissing them off right back. That may mean I get a little hyperbolic.

 

The point is, when people start going along with people like Tommy, who use pressure, mock offense and shame to control conversations, it turns into group-think. He did this VERY effectively just now in a game where we were scum together and I see him employing it here as well, though in a much more measured manner. I intend to point this out at every turn and blow up his strategy, because I believe he is scum. If he were town, he would stop trolling, cause at this point his mock outrage and pettiness are obvious. He's looking to get me mislynched and his setting me up as attacking him irrationally is so plain as day.  He might actually succeed. But, when I flip town, I intend to leave no doubt as to who your target should be- Tommy. He's not scumhunting, he's trying to frame people for a mislynch. He's already setting Hallia and Des up for future days, fos'ing them for things, but distancing them from me for when I flip town. For example, he links me to Hallia, but not her to me. Why? Because he knows I'll flip town and he wants to leave her train for another day when he can get more traction on her. He says I'm parroting Despo, but doesn't say Despo sounds like he's working with me. These are all things I've seen him plan out in a scum QT. Tom is scum, or he's playing a very anti-town game, sacrificing scumhunting to engage in pissing contests.

[GoldeneyesND]

Golden I simply don't believe you're town because every argument you've used to pin me as scum is nearly the exact thing you've accused me of doing that's scummy

 

In short, we're both hypocrites. But I know I am town, I do not know you are town. I find it extremely hard to believe you.

 

Let's try this: assume we're both town. I doubt Mish is scum, but if she is there will be one other.

 

Who else is a good scum candidate to you?

 

I'll bite. Oh and FYI I always look scummy because I talk a lot. I have no interest in lying low and I don't apologize for being aggressive. Sometimes that means I will get lynched early, it happens and I'm fine with it. I find Cloud odd this game-slight scum lean. I have a null read on Alanna, I've never played before, but I like her gameplay. I have a scum read on Mish as well. Peace has been a little bit all over the place in games lately, I know he's got stuff going on in RL, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a read on him right now. Des is Des, I always think he's scummy, but he plays very similarly to me, so I usually need to ISO him to see him more objectively. SLIGHT town read on him at present. I think we both enjoy some good schadenfraude. Csarmi and I tend to rub each other the wrong way and there hasn't been that much posting in the way of gameplay from him-null. There really hasn't been enough gameplay from most people. Of the 17 pages in this thread I'd venture a guess that 6 were warming up and probably 6-7 pages are you and I, Hallia and Mish going back and forth. That leaves very little actually gameplay from everyone else. What about you?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Well, I apologize if I was ever too mean about it. I don't like to make meta or RL excuses because the fact is, no one really has any reason to believe them, but I have been super cranky the past few days for some reason, and this level of play on Day 1 is very normal for me.

 

Anyway. I'm still catching up, but some current thoughts so far - now that I've calmed down a little, I do find Golden's freak-out over Tommy's case on Hallia a little weird. I haven't really played with him before, so I have no idea how he normally plays, and like I said, I was getting a little annoyed with Tommy too, at that point. But he seemed to take it really far, saying that what Tommy was doing to Hallia was "awful." IDK. Maybe he was just really cranky too, but it really was kind of weird. I just can't decide if it means he's scummy. The one other game I saw him play in, he seemed like a pretty intelligent player, so it just seems like a big goof to me to get so riled up, if he is scum. But I don't know, maybe I give everyone too much credit

 

I'm feeling Hallia is town. I think she's trying to play more vocally in this game and try some new stuff; this especially makes sense to me if Leelou the BAMF is mentoring her ;)

 

I'm still feeling pretty town about Cloud, although I don't believe he's really posted much since I last posted my reads. Feeling pretty good about peace as well, and I have a pretty town read for Despo now, too, though I will admit that's mostly a gut feeling.

 

I'm going to read back for more on Csarmi and Mish.

 

I find that I enjoy toying with my levels of emotion, I generally play aggressively. That said, I have a pet peeve for people who make a meal of logical fallacies. Tommy's comments like "you copy your questions and stances down for me and I'll do the same for you so we can answer them" followed by fos'ing me when I showed up in the thread and told him I was ready for his questions is a perfect example of the passive aggressive play I've been getting from him. I've asked him questions and yet his response to me is generally "OMG why aren't you answering MY questions, why are you being so evasive." Anyone who has had to deal with people like this in real life knows how ridiculous and annoying this general attitude is. Sadly, because they are so off-putting, these fake-offended people usually get their own way. I like to deal with them by trolling and pissing them off right back. That may mean I get a little hyperbolic.

 

The point is, when people start going along with people like Tommy, who use pressure, mock offense and shame to control conversations, it turns into group-think. He did this VERY effectively just now in a game where we were scum together and I see him employing it here as well, though in a much more measured manner. I intend to point this out at every turn and blow up his strategy, because I believe he is scum. If he were town, he would stop trolling, cause at this point his mock outrage and pettiness are obvious. He's looking to get me mislynched and his setting me up as attacking him irrationally is so plain as day.  He might actually succeed. But, when I flip town, I intend to leave no doubt as to who your target should be- Tommy. He's not scumhunting, he's trying to frame people for a mislynch. He's already setting Hallia and Des up for future days, fos'ing them for things, but distancing them from me for when I flip town. For example, he links me to Hallia, but not her to me. Why? Because he knows I'll flip town and he wants to leave her train for another day when he can get more traction on her. He says I'm parroting Despo, but doesn't say Despo sounds like he's working with me. These are all things I've seen him plan out in a scum QT. Tom is scum, or he's playing a very anti-town game, sacrificing scumhunting to engage in pissing contests.

Not again...

 

The first paragraph is a very long winded way of saying "I think he's pushy." That's true of me as a player in general. But this argument is particularly odd because I have been decidedly un-aggressive in this game. I dd get annoyed at Hallia refusing to answer my questions, yeah. As you appear annoyed that I did the same.

 

The main problem with the logic of your second paragraph is that it assumes the logic in the first, that pushy people are bad, is also a scum tell. That's clearly untrue for mafia games. But you're also decrying people trying to lead town and force groupthink... yet you are justified in trying to force town to discuss Mish and only Mish? You can see how that contradicts itself wholly. You've also never seen play as town. You have no idea how I play as town. So saying "town Tommy wouldn't do this" is not within your realm I understanding to begin with.

 

My logic for your connection to Hallia is pretty obvious: I believe you're taking advantage of her to curry her favor. So to say I HAVE TO link you as wolf/wolf is just plain wrong! And you know that.

 

All in all I don't believe that YOU believe the arguments you're making against me. And that's what makes you scummier than anyone else in the game, a lack of authenticity.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Golden I simply don't believe you're town because every argument you've used to pin me as scum is nearly the exact thing you've accused me of doing that's scummy

In short, we're both hypocrites. But I know I am town, I do not know you are town. I find it extremely hard to believe you.

Let's try this: assume we're both town. I doubt Mish is scum, but if she is there will be one other.

Who else is a good scum candidate to you?

 

 

I'll bite. Oh and FYI I always look scummy because I talk a lot. I have no interest in lying low and I don't apologize for being aggressive. Sometimes that means I will get lynched early, it happens and I'm fine with it. I find Cloud odd this game-slight scum lean. I have a null read on Alanna, I've never played before, but I like her gameplay. I have a scum read on Mish as well. Peace has been a little bit all over the place in games lately, I know he's got stuff going on in RL, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a read on him right now. Des is Des, I always think he's scummy, but he plays very similarly to me, so I usually need to ISO him to see him more objectively. SLIGHT town read on him at present. I think we both enjoy some good schadenfraude. Csarmi and I tend to rub each other the wrong way and there hasn't been that much posting in the way of gameplay from him-null. There really hasn't been enough gameplay from most people. Of the 17 pages in this thread I'd venture a guess that 6 were warming up and probably 6-7 pages are you and I, Hallia and Mish going back and forth. That leaves very little actually gameplay from everyone else. What about you?

From your comments:

 

Hallia - town obviously

Tom - scum

Mish - scum

Cloud - scum

Peace - too soon to say

Des - slight town

Salami - null

Alanna - null

 

That's not very good. If Cloud is scum why are you okay with him being on the Mish wagon? I don't think anyone else has read Cloud as scum yet, so that surprised me. Explain why Cloud is odd.

 

I've seen you give zero indication that you find Des scummy in this game, so why mention that you always see him as scummy?

 

Salami has made a list of reads and is currently voting for you. I wouldn't say that's null worthy. I would like to see your analysis of his reads list.

 

It looks like you're leaving yourself open to changing opinion on basically every other player.

[michellem]

unvote

 

Seeing as we have a deadline today, I need to reread to get a more throurough perspective, I'm a bit disjointed right now and need to read the whole thing from start to finish. I'm very uncomfortable with the high levels of buddying going on. Tommy has gone beyond what I'd see as normal town defense. And the last time I saw Hallia not react to someone strongly buddying her, she was mafia. I haven't seen Golden as mafia so I don't know how to read him now; I don't think I've seen him so strongly defend another player before and I don't know what to think of it . And it bothers me that I can hardly remember a single post Alanna made. We're so few and yet I only have a halfway impression of half the players and null on the rest, and that does not sit well with me.

 

@AJ how long until deadline? Any chance of a countdown link? *bats eyelashes*

[GoldeneyesND]

Tommy. If you look at my argument presuming I have a lot of respect for your game and my wariness stems from that, could you see how the methods you've employed in this game would make me feel disquieted about you? Or, are you simply presuming I'm out to frame you?

 

My argument in paragraph 1 is not based on "pushy people are bad", I admit to being pushy myself. My problem is that you misrep everything I say. Did you or did you not suggest we settle down and just answer each other's questions? Did I or did I not agree to do so when I got to my computer? And when I showed up later to let you know I was on my computer, did you or did you not then FOS me for it? I find it hard to believe you don't recognize this. You keep claiming you're not being aggressive. You're right, you're being supremely passive-aggressive. That much is obvious to anyone. 

 

My second paragraph is not a meta argument. It is specific to how you are playing now. Namely, you are being incredibly underhanded and making subtle little twists to what I say and then setting up false arguments from those twists. That in and of itself is terribad. I see it everyday in my RL and though you may be good at doing it to other people, it's not going to fly here. 

 

As for my reads. Feel free to think what you will about them. I call Des scummy every game because everyone thinks he's scummy every game and says as much-pointing this out as inconsistent is a fail. I'm disinterested in your questions about Csarmi. I'm on record not putting much stock in his arguments as of late because I consistently disagree with his logic. He hates that, but it's not going to change for me anytime soon and he knows why. He generally gets himself lynched for playing aggressively. If his name starts getting kicked around as a vote, I'll iso him and decide. Point is. I have 1 strong scum read on day 1. I develop my reads, as many people do, by looking at interactions after flips. Do you have the entire scum team pegged already? Give me your version of the scum team in this game. If you're right I will change my avatar and signature to anything you choose for a month.

[Tommyrod]

I have to take pretty big issue with that list of reads, Golden.

 

Here's why;

 

Ok guys..sorry for my absence..working day shifts this week and it's been very difficult to participate from work.  And I don't spend too much time on the puter when at home with my wife.  Not fair to her considering my work schedule.

 

First..I don't see why people are piling on Tommy.  He is aggressive..but not negative aggressive.  Get over it.  It's not like he called anyone a "crappy player" in his first post or anything.  :P

 

I have a ton of mixed reads.  Some who have started out very scummy have turned town, and very town turn scummy.

 

Golden has gone for reasonable succinct player to emotional mess defender of the maiden.

 

Mish has gone from uber scummy to most likely town.  Her failure to claim at l-1 is a town tell to me.

 

Despo is walking the fine line...like he usually does.   I can go either way with him.

 

Tommy...I'm watching for a few things on him.  Not ready to give a read yet.

 

Alanna.  Definitely town.

 

Cloud...coasting which leads me to slight scum.

 

unCsarming - Scum lean.  But need to watch some more.

 

 

 

 

Here's a question - from a scum POV, what would be the point of pretending to not be familiar with the game setup? So Despo did that just to further his case on Mish? Super sloppy move, since it's a given others will immediately jump on him for making this mistake (as, you know, several people have). I just don't buy it.

 

 

Classic town-slip type move that scum would make.  There is a great reason for doing it. Playing dumb works.

  

 

Here's a post from Peace. You said he's null because he hasn't contributed much. But here he clearly FOS you and supports me. Why are you not linking us if you think linking is so important?

 

 

 

Golden you're making no sense. First you chastize Mish for saying that she wasn't given time to claim.

Then you go on about how not claiming wasn't indicative of her alignment (which she didn't say it were).

On top of all that, with a twist you ask her why she didn't say her piece at L-2. Where she never even had the chance to speak... which was kind of the point of discussion.

I get it. If she wears a hat, she's scum. If she doesn't wear a hat, she's scum.

Nice reasoning.unvote vote Golden

Here Salami is clearly supporting me and voting you but you still have him as a null read? Why aren't you (very obviously) linking us? You just chastised me for not linking Hallia directly to you as scum-scum. Whys it okay for you not to?

 

I also think that Tom came out the worse after his exchange with GE, which I actually find quite surprising.

 

 

But here's the kicker: Cloud has been busy and hasn't said much, but here he's clearly siding with you earlier in the game, and yet he's your only SCUM read apart from me and Mish?

 

I think you're just not reading the thread, which matches your "I'm rubber you're glue" arguments. Your logic certainly doesn't make sense as to why you suspect people.

 

Can we vote Golden now? Is this enough evidence yet? =\

[Tommyrod]

unvote

 

Seeing as we have a deadline today, I need to reread to get a more throurough perspective, I'm a bit disjointed right now and need to read the whole thing from start to finish. I'm very uncomfortable with the high levels of buddying going on. Tommy has gone beyond what I'd see as normal town defense. And the last time I saw Hallia not react to someone strongly buddying her, she was mafia. I haven't seen Golden as mafia so I don't know how to read him now; I don't think I've seen him so strongly defend another player before and I don't know what to think of it . And it bothers me that I can hardly remember a single post Alanna made. We're so few and yet I only have a halfway impression of half the players and null on the rest, and that does not sit well with me.

 

@AJ how long until deadline? Any chance of a countdown link? *bats eyelashes*

My defense of you has to do with three things:

1) Other than being inactive, you haven't been very scummy

2) Everyone on that L-1 wagon of you is scummier than you

3) I doubt 4/7 townies saw something in you that was scummy enough to lynch you for

 

Well reasoned posts like this support #1.

[Tommyrod]

I keep thinking "okay, MAYBE Golden is town and he's really off in this game and thinks I'm very different than I should be, because I AM making a point of being different" and try to reason with him or slow down

 

But then he does stuff like make a list of reads that totally incongruous to the rest of the thread and how his stances should have evolved if he believes what he's trumpeting

 

And I'm right back to "he's the best mafia suspect"

[GoldeneyesND]

I have to take pretty big issue with that list of reads, Golden.

 

Here's why;

 

Ok guys..sorry for my absence..working day shifts this week and it's been very difficult to participate from work.  And I don't spend too much time on the puter when at home with my wife.  Not fair to her considering my work schedule.

 

First..I don't see why people are piling on Tommy.  He is aggressive..but not negative aggressive.  Get over it.  It's not like he called anyone a "crappy player" in his first post or anything.  :P

 

I have a ton of mixed reads.  Some who have started out very scummy have turned town, and very town turn scummy.

 

Golden has gone for reasonable succinct player to emotional mess defender of the maiden.

 

Mish has gone from uber scummy to most likely town.  Her failure to claim at l-1 is a town tell to me.

 

Despo is walking the fine line...like he usually does.   I can go either way with him.

 

Tommy...I'm watching for a few things on him.  Not ready to give a read yet.

 

Alanna.  Definitely town.

 

Cloud...coasting which leads me to slight scum.

 

unCsarming - Scum lean.  But need to watch some more.

 

 

Here's a question - from a scum POV, what would be the point of pretending to not be familiar with the game setup? So Despo did that just to further his case on Mish? Super sloppy move, since it's a given others will immediately jump on him for making this mistake (as, you know, several people have). I just don't buy it.

 

Classic town-slip type move that scum would make.  There is a great reason for doing it. Playing dumb works.

  

 

Here's a post from Peace. You said he's null because he hasn't contributed much. But here he clearly FOS you and supports me. Why are you not linking us if you think linking is so important?

 

 

 

Golden you're making no sense. First you chastize Mish for saying that she wasn't given time to claim.

Then you go on about how not claiming wasn't indicative of her alignment (which she didn't say it were).

On top of all that, with a twist you ask her why she didn't say her piece at L-2. Where she never even had the chance to speak... which was kind of the point of discussion.

I get it. If she wears a hat, she's scum. If she doesn't wear a hat, she's scum.

Nice reasoning.unvote vote Golden

Here Salami is clearly supporting me and voting you but you still have him as a null read? Why aren't you (very obviously) linking us? You just chastised me for not linking Hallia directly to you as scum-scum. Whys it okay for you not to?

 

I also think that Tom came out the worse after his exchange with GE, which I actually find quite surprising.

 

 

But here's the kicker: Cloud has been busy and hasn't said much, but here he's clearly siding with you earlier in the game, and yet he's your only SCUM read apart from me and Mish?

 

I think you're just not reading the thread, which matches your "I'm rubber you're glue" arguments. Your logic certainly doesn't make sense as to why you suspect people.

 

Can we vote Golden now? Is this enough evidence yet? =\

 

 

This makes literally no sense. I should suspect everyone who sides with you and clear the people who side with me? That's ridiculous and it would be the single worst reasoning behind a list of reads ever. If you actually believed this, I would direct you to go back and read Peace's intro to Mafia thread. But you don't need to, you've played in a champions league...

 

Peace consistently throws votes my way, I'm neither bothered by it nor surprised by it. Day 1 votes mean so little until a lynch is achieved, they could be placed there for a myriad of reasons- pressure, joke, an underlying dislike of the other player, actual gameplay.

 

Yeah I'm not linking Salami to anyone. I won't discuss current games, but it's not a surprise to see him voting for me anywhere. He's not above looking for an excuse to vote me and I don't think his failure to maintain means anything in regards to his read from me.

 

Cloud- have you ever played with him? Cause Cloud posts. He posts a lot. He posts reads and theories, then analysis of his reads and theories. It is interminable. That said I enjoy his play. Nonetheless, when a player disappears, you should be wary of them even if they give a reason for it. 

 

On the whole, such a weak case from you Tommy.