[Basic] Blood Moon Mafia - Game Over.

[_CLOUD]

Despo do you agree with my logic of clearing Peace as town?

[csarmi]

Yea.

 

Also gibt scunsvin was hunt some scums. Well intended to type that anyway.

 

OK off now. Doctor appointment.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Didn't like this post at all. Hallia posted from work saying she didn't have much time (and was prob on mobile), and you fos her for not saying more at the time? This pretty much completely confirmed for me that you are scum. Town Tommy wouldn't need to use such a tactic to strengthen his case on someone. You were using anything you could to make her look worse.

 

This part actually made me almost stop reading your case. You are putting a lot of emphasis on your meta reads of Tommy while you later claimed (post #311) that you are against the idea of relying on it too much. More importantly however it’s a weak reason to accuse Tom of doing everything he can to make Hallia look bad, which I don’t think he has been doing at all. He said that he is surprised that she didn’t have more things to say, and then tells her to get back to him later. How you drew the conclusion that he is obviscum because of this is beyond me.

 

Already addressed the "meta" thing, meta has nothing to do with what I was saying there. And fyi tho I was saying meta shouldn't be over relied on, I was actually arguing AGAINST Tommy about the meta thing, I think it's quite useful early in games when there's not that much actual gameplay to go off of.

 

He FOS'd her for not giving more thoughts when she said she was busy and would do so later. This isn't rocket science buddy, that kind of thing is scummy as hell. I mean jeez, why even say something like that? If I'm truly suspicious of them, and they say they're busy with rl and will respond later, I just let it go and wait for their response. If they never show back up again, THEN I'll say something. But fos'ing someone for not putting more thoughts into a post that's pretty much "Hey sorry busy at work thoughts later" is just super sketch.

 

 

 

I really feel like town Tommy would just tell GE he doesn't know you enough yet, or just shrug off the meta read entirely since it's unreliable anyways. Instead you seem to be too aware of how you defend yourself from the meta thing.

 

You are once again relying on meta reasons in your case against him. I don’t think meta is a bad scumhunting tool, but if you are playing against players of Tom’s skill level then you might as well just discard the idea of searching for differences in meta.

 

Again, wasn't meta, but incidentally the bolded is just straight up dumb. No one is "immune" to meta. It's more difficult to rely on meta with more experienced players, but def not impossible.

 

Plus you're just continuing the scum party line that Tommy has been pushing all game. Meta aint goin nowhere. Get used to it.

 

Also, you are way too focused on helping Hallia improve her game on thread. You aren't her mentor so stop behaving like it on thread. It's distracting and it leads to bias. I do agree with your analysis of her playstyle and that she is actually a lot better than most people give her credit for, but you are defending her too much right now and are giving her the benefit of the doubt on too many occasions. 

 

You should have no way of knowing for certain what Hallia's thought process was when she made those moves, especially because she is getting coached by Leelou and is changing her meta in this game, and yet you come across as so fired up in your defense of her just because you like her play.

A big part of this is I think I was really one of the main people who gave her such a hard time for so long for the way she played, and I found out recently that it had kind of bothered her. So part of this is mebbe compensation for that, part is genuine pride in her robust play, part is that I figure I of all people should be complimenting her on her play since I used to ride her so bad for her fluffing.

 

And no, I don't know her thought processes, but I do have a fairly strong town read on her so far, and I'd like to think I'm fairly good at figuring out why someone might have done something after I've known them for a bit. If I was wrong, I think she would have corrected me.

 

 

And you liked his reaction to being called out for setting up lynches? I didn't think it was that good at all. He essentially tried answering it in a manner that would attract the least amount of attention, instead of turning into a protracted argument. I find this to be a lot more indicative of a scum alignment on Cloud in this case.

 

Why should I have turned it into a protracted argument? I have repeatedly explained that there wasn’t anything to discuss in the first place. You should have also understood this and yet you argue that me not flailing around while answering Salami is an indicator of me being mafia. This line of reasoning is wrong and not to mention scummy because you would have also called me out for it if I acted like that.

 

Actually, had you flailed about after it was brought up, I would have thought it more likely that you were town, or at the very least null. You normally bluster about a lot at the start of games, and are very reactionary as town, which is why you often find yourself getting lynched early in games.

 

And incidentally, NOW who's the one who thinks they know other's thought processes?

 

 

This makes zero sense if you were actually town. Town Tommy would have wanted to see and study her responses to see if they seemed more townie or scummie.

 

It shows you were more interested in lynching Hallia than lynching someone you thought was scum.

Anoter meta read on Tom. And no, skimming isn’t an indicator of alignment, it is an indicator of lazy play.

 

In general, yes, skimming is more of a nulltell.

 

But in this instance, it's a giant scumtell. Tommy had been tunneling Hallia for quite a while, and made a big deal about her not responding to him. Then when she finally does, he disregards her responses? That's just incredibly scummy mate, and you defending him on this point just proves you for the scummer you are. If Tommy was town and truly thought Hallia was scum, he'd pay close attention to her responses to see if she continued to act scummy in his eyes, or if he should try and find a diff target.

 

You know who is more likely to disregard someone's responses when they're pushing that person as scum? Mafia.

 

Tom and Golden continue their battle where they try to best each other at every turn. Tom is only looking more townie to me, but Golden has also made a lot of valid arguments. We now know that Golden was town and I actually believe that this was a town vs town fight where both players have been incredibly stubborn.

Uh huh. I BET you think it was town on town now

 

 

 

Tommy, to clear something up. I was definitely not clearing you with that early post I made. I was making a joke referencing our little tangle that started off the Christmas game.

 

On the Golden/Tommy fight. Tommy is coming across as deliberate and giving concrete reads. Golden is coming off as emotional and throwing insults.

 

Town does get emotional often. Scum are often very logical.

 

This is the second game where Tommy has buddied me or used my play to support his thesis. The first game he was scum. So, although I like a lot of his approach I am wary.

 

I also think both players could be strong town assets.

 

Better to lynch Hallia instead.

 

VOTE HALLIA

 

##VOTE HALLIA

 

Don't remember the voting rules of this game.

 

I guess this post from Peace clears him as town now that we have seen Golden flip. I see zero value for a wolf Peace to keep both a town Tom and town Golden alive because they are both great scumhunters and an immediate threat to his team. If both Peace and Tom were mafia then he would have voted for Golden to save his teammate and prevent him from fake claiming. He could have easily done this if he were mafia because he has been wishy washy with his reads all game. I believe that both Peace and Tom are town, but I understand that some of you still hold doubts about this but let it at least be clear that they can’t be wolf-wolf.

 

Uh, no. This doesn't "clear" Peace as town in the slightest. Even if Tommy and GE were both town, this could easily have been a scummer trying to distance from a town lynch. It was fairly obvious one of the two was getting lynched at that point, so really the Hallia vote just looks like a throwaway vote to me. And if Tommy is scum like I think he is, then this could have been scum Peace trying to defend Tommy without looking like he was too obvious about it.

 

Honestly I HOPE you're scum now, cause if this is town Cloud pushing this garbage, I will have a sad.

 

NEWSFLASH: TOM CLAIMING TO BE THE TRACKER WOULD SEAL HIS DEATH IF HE WAS ONE OF THE TWO WOLVES. He would have more luck not claiming anything and relying on his own play to get Golden lynched instead of him despite the fast approaching deadline. I know that this is WIFOM, but I don't see him trying to save himself with this move knowing that half of the players here thought he was scum even before Golden flipped town.

Hey bro. He claimed an HOUR BEFORE DEADLINE. It was a last gasp desperation move. He very likely might have died without the claim, this way he was most likely to survive at least one more day, and if he did get CC'ed and lynched at least he'd have gotten a PR out of it as well. Dying with a town PR is a whole lot better than dying by yourself as scum. Which is why you see so many scum panic claims when they think they're getting lynched.

 

I just don't buy AT ALL that Tommy literally waited till the last hour to claim, when he could have gotten ninjahammered by a townie at some point, thereby not only costing town one of its few PR's, but also making another townie look bad as well. No, it would be incredibly dumb to do something like that. I don't think Tom is dumb at all. Just scum.

[hazelkrs1]

Despo do you agree with my logic of clearing Peace as town?

Already responded, but no, not at all. That was horrendous logic to use to try and "clear" someone as town. Especially the notion that they both can't be scum together, that's even moar ridic.

[hazelkrs1]

Tommyrod and _Cloud are teh wolves. If Cloud is just playing a lolvillage game, then Alanna is probs Tommy's partner. Also wary of CS, but meh we'll see a bit down the road.

[peacesells]

Cloud trying to clear me with that reasoning is very suspect.  Looks more like he is trying to get me on his side after I've already expressed concerns about his alignment earlier in the game.

 

 

Despo..I disagree with you on the CC though.  With only 2 scum, a CC would be appropriate in a small game like this.  It is a good trade..but not until day breaks.

 

If Tommy is not the real tracker..the real tracker should come forward midway through day 2 with who they tracked and the CC. 

[Tommyrod]

It's not terribly complicated...

 

I claimed ~4 hours before deadline. I wouldn't have claimed at all, had DM been more active like I'm used to on other forums.

 

My intention was to teeter the line between town and scum for a while, because that way I'll either A) not need to claim, and will be scummy enough to not be NKed so my track will go through or B) if I catch a lot of heat from the low-hanging argument fruit I left, I can hard claim during the day and clear myself such that anyone who had parked their votes on me become suspect.

I needn't point out again how absurd it is that Despot was reading thread before Golden died but didn't comment or move his vote. That in itself is almost a scum claim, but insisting I must be scum despite being the tracker is enough for me to feel completely safe lynching him D2.

Just don't be silly and we'll win this game handily. 

[csarmi]

Sup

 

I am town

 

This is 4.5 hours before deadline. I have not a clue wtf Frozen means (pleas what's that?), but this is a very clear PR softclaim.

 

Scum team is FROZEN

 

It must suck to let a mislynch slip away like this

 

Kekekeke

[csarmi]

Okay screw DM?

[csarmi]

Sup

 

I am town

 

This is 4.5 hours before deadline. I have not a clue wtf Frozen means (pleas what's that?), but this is a very clear PR softclaim.

[csarmi]

Whatever. Despo where did you get the one hour before deadline thing?

[Tommyrod]

FROZEN is a 2+2 forums term. It means the scum team doesn't know how to respond to a new situation and stays out of the thread or has to discuss their strategy first.

[_CLOUD]

Whatever. Despo where did you get the one hour before deadline thing?

 

Out of his ass apparently.

[Tommyrod]

So the scum team should be:

-Despot and Hallia
-Despot and Mish [because of her, IMO, nonsensical L-1 vote on me]

Not sure which one yet. If someone else is scum with Des, they've stayed pretty incognito so far.

By the way JK, I am pretty sure you can go on the offensive, and if you jail the mafia member who makes the kill, it'll be blocked. But if you wanna go on defense too, that's fine. Avoid me as I said, because mafia can't afford to kill me tonight since they have to mislynch me with a CC to win.

Speaking of CC's... if I was mafia, I'd claim JK to draw him out because he's much more of a threat than the tracker. 

This is actually a hard setup for mafia to win, now that I think about it. You would need a lot of boneheaded townies. 

[Hallia]

You say that.  Or they wouldn't kill you because you are the scum.

[Tommyrod]

You say that.  Or they wouldn't kill you because you are the scum.

 

 

Sure, but how likely is it I claimed the weaker of the two roles as scum, knowing I'd be CC'd on D2 at the very least? I'd claim JK like I said above and get that guy out of the way. But this discussion is purely WIFOM anyway. Let's not get caught up in it.

[peacesells]

Those of you focusing solely on Tommy need to start expanding your searches.  Fine, if you don't believe his claim.  That will all be resolved soon enough by a NK or a CC. 

 

Move on, look for other scum.

[_CLOUD]

I think it's quite useful early in games when there's not that much actual gameplay to go off of.

I agree that meta is a good scumhunting tool in the early stages of the game when people haven't yet dropped scumtells and more importantly haven't changed their opinion about the happenings on thread.

 

He FOS'd her for not giving more thoughts when she said she was busy and would do so later. This isn't rocket science buddy, that kind of thing is scummy as hell. I mean jeez, why even say something like that?

Yes, I see that it’s a little weird but classifying it as a scumtell and even going as for to call him obviscum for that move alone? That is reaching my friend.

 

Again, wasn't meta, but incidentally the bolded is just straight up dumb. No one is "immune" to meta. It's more difficult to rely on meta with more experienced players, but def not impossible.

Plus you're just continuing the scum party line that Tommy has been pushing all game. Meta aint goin nowhere. Get used to it.

Lol I don’t want to extinguish meta. I’m also aware that it will always be around and that it effects everyone's view of each other both consciously and subconsciously. I just found it weird that you kept attacking him for meta reasons alone, but apparently I misinterpreted you.

 

And no, I don't know her thought processes, but I do have a fairly strong town read on her so far, and I'd like to think I'm fairly good at figuring out why someone might have done something after I've known them for a bit. If I was wrong, I think she would have corrected me.

Now you are just being naïve though. If Hallia is scum then I’d figure she wants you to continue defending her and pointing out to everyone else how townie she has been playing so no negative attention comes upon her.

 

Actually, had you flailed about after it was brought up, I would have thought it more likely that you were town, or at the very least null. You normally bluster about a lot at the start of games, and are very reactionary as town, which is why you often find yourself getting lynched early in games.

That was then. I’m a lot calmer now in mafia games. I just needed some time.

 

You know who is more likely to disregard someone's responses when they're pushing that person as scum? Mafia.

I think we have to agree to disagree. I view it as lazy play from Tommy’s part, and he later took his time to address Hallia’s responses.

 

Uh huh. I BET you think it was town on town now

I found Tom to be more townie than Golden during the later stages of Day 1, and I certainly wouldn't have moved my vote from him if I were completly caught up before the deadline hit.

 

 

Uh, no. This doesn't "clear" Peace as town in the slightest. Even if Tommy and GE were both town, this could easily have been a scummer trying to distance from a town lynch

Wrong. If he had voted for Hallia to distance from Tommy and GE then he would have at least made arguments for why both lynches were bad in order to gain town cred. He didn’t attempt to do this at all, and instead he only came across as uncertain about his reads and in the end switched his vote to Hallia to play it safe.

 

It was fairly obvious one of the two was getting lynched at that point, so really the Hallia vote just looks like a throwaway vote to me.

It was and I’m also not a fan of Peace’s vote but after seeing Golden flip it did change my mind about him. I had a scum read on him remember?

 

And if Tommy is scum like I think he is, then this could have been scum Peace trying to defend Tommy without looking like he was too obvious about it.

If they were both scum then why didn’t Peace vote for Golden which would result in Tom not having to suicide claim?

 

Honestly I HOPE you're scum now, cause if this is town Cloud pushing this garbage, I will have a sad.

Honestly I will laugh my ass off when Tom ends up flipping town.

 

It was a last gasp desperation move. He very likely might have died without the claim, this way he was most likely to survive at least one more day, and if he did get CC'ed and lynched at least he'd have gotten a PR out of it as well. Dying with a town PR is a whole lot better than dying by yourself as scum. Which is why you see so many scum panic claims when they think they're getting lynched.

There are only two wolves in this game and I don’t see Tom giving up so easily by claiming the WEAKER town PR 4 hours before deadline. I think he would have done everything he could to get Golden lynched through playing better on thread alone. Also, do you think he really expected to live after fake claiming when half of the players found him more scummy before Golden even flipped town? I don’t think so.

[_CLOUD]

Cloud trying to clear me with that reasoning is very suspect.  Looks more like he is trying to get me on his side after I've already expressed concerns about his alignment earlier in the game.

 

 

Despo..I disagree with you on the CC though.  With only 2 scum, a CC would be appropriate in a small game like this.  It is a good trade..but not until day breaks.

 

If Tommy is not the real tracker..the real tracker should come forward midway through day 2 with who they tracked and the CC. 

 

Getting you on my side? I thought you were scum before your vote on Hallia dude. 

 

I completly agree that if Tom is lying the real tracker needs to come forward during Day 2. It will be a good trade off because we would get one of the wolves, and if the tracker is particularly skilled or lucky he could also have the second one pegged by then.

[_CLOUD]

Those of you focusing solely on Tommy need to start expanding your searches.  Fine, if you don't believe his claim.  That will all be resolved soon enough by a NK or a CC. 

 

Move on, look for other scum.

 

Agreed.

[Tommyrod]

Cloud, you're making too much sense. It's gonna hurt my brain if you don't start posting WOT's that have little quoting or in-thread evidence, but instead expound endlessly upon verbose conspiracy theories.

I'm kinda miffed about Golden being town, because when I lowered my argumentative standard, he dropped right to my level and used my own reasoning against me... that was hard to believe as town, as I have a policy that people whose arguments are wholly hypocritical tend to be scum more often than not, but next game I'll know better.

[_CLOUD]

Heh :)

[Tommyrod]

Get it right. It's right there in my sig.

Keep it simple.

[Alanna]

I just gotta say, I don't really buy that Alanna has that big a problem with Tommy, or any problem at all for that matter. Tommy really hasn't been THAT aggressive this game, and Alanna has played with plenty of jerks and assholes before, yet this is prob the first time I remember him making comments like these. I think it's some trumped up distancing type maneuver.

 

However, in the off chance I'm wrong about Tommy and he's just playing a spectacularly scummy town PR game (not likely), Alanna still looks suspicious imo, for overusing this whole thing as a smokescreen to keep from having to contribute as much today.

 

 

You're completely ignoring what I said, Despo. I clarified exactly what I didn't like about Tommy's play, and that was not that he was aggressive, but that he was on all the time and seemed to expect the rest of us to be, too. I'm not going to explain it again because I hate repeating myself and, yes, as I said, it was sort of a personal, outside-of-the-game thing. Which I said. I'm beginning to suspect that you're deliberately misunderstanding me.

 

Have I played with plenty of jerks and assholes? Yeah, and it was partly why I took a year and a half long break from mafia. I'm from an older crowd of players here that didn't really resort to to that kind of play, that didn't feel like we had to go around bulldozing and being jerks and calling people daft in order to scumhunt and play a good game. As I finally settled with Tommy, I'm not totally unwilling to play with players like that, but I don't like it, and I am not afraid to say I don't like it. If Tommy is town, I don't think the way he is playing is helping the town at all, and that's what I wanted him to know.

 

As for using it as a smokescreen to keep from contributing, sorry my friend, but as I told Tommy, this level of participation is pretty par the course for me, on Day 1. I haven't used anything as a smokescreen to keep from participating. I've participated as much as I've wanted/intended to.

 

 

Trolololololololololololol uncontested so far? He claimed an HOUR BEFORE DEADLINE you sillyhead. You seriously think that there was enough time there for someone else to CC if it was fake? I just saw you play an excellent game Alanna, I know you're not daft. Ergo, you almost have to be scum, cause I think you'd have to be fairly daft to say something like that as town when the claim just came out and deadline was right there.

 

 

He claimed about four hours before deadline. Not sure how you're getting the time wrong. Not only does the timestamp show this, but I was sitting here all evening checking in, so I'm very sure of this. I waited about three hours after he claimed before voting. I was waiting to see what anyone else had to say, or if anyone would CC - though I considered voting right away to keep the real tracker from counterclaiming, as that would have been detrimental. But, not only did no one else CC, no one came in to say anything in those 3 hours. And do you really think I should have lynched an uncontested claimed tracker? Really? I don't even know what to say to that. You're daft, if you really think that would have been a good idea. That's, like, basic. I'm not saying I believe his claim is real, or that he should be immune to lynching in the days to come, but it would have been stupid to lynch him at the last minute like that, without hearing from anyone else.

 

Besides, a smart mafioso would have claimed JC, not tracker. It's an easier to claim to fake.

 

Anyway, I'm still catching up the last few pages, more later.

[csarmi]

KISS is good.