[Advanced] French Revolution Mafia - Day 3

[Andrej]

Apologies for my abscense; although I was not hungover yesterday, exhaustion from the last month came and kicked me in the ass and rendered me utterly useless. I gotta look over the last two pages again, as I've only skimmed them, but for now it feels more like town on town for me.

 

Which interactions specifically?

[Hallia]

*nodnod* The 'it' is vague just a little

[hazelkrs1]

WOWOWOWOWOWOW DM being SOOOOOO slow and dumb tonight. I have spent like 5 hours trying to post this lol.

 

 

@ Peace. In the Epicmafia-link, it says
 

Every person starts the game with three pieces of bread.

Every PERSON. Not every townie. So, whichever allignment Basel has, he should have known about the famine.

 

 
Basil's  "slip" was before that link was posted.  So, your statement is wrong.

 

 

Okay okay either you're confused Peace, or you're scum trying to obfuscate.

 

You say you're unfamiliar with the Baker role, which is slightly hard to believe being that you are one of the most experienced people playing, but eh it is a role seldom used. Anyways, something you have to understand about the mechanics of it: It would be COMPLETELY unbalanced to have it so the mafia team is immune to the famine concept that a Baker brings. Otherwise, the scum team could get lucky and NK the Baker N1, and laugh as everyone starves but them and they instawin. No mod, or rather no mod worth their salt would allow something like this to occur.

 

Alternatively, having townies start off with bread, but not scummies, would also present an incredibly unbalanced game, as the Baker could just try and get themselves lynched D1, and laugh as the scummies starve during the night phase.

 

So really, I don't see your angle here. I wasn't surmising that the mafia team wouldn't know about the famine conditions, I mean why in the world would I have pushed that angle when the famine conditions are both well known as being one of the major causes of the French Revolution, as well as there being hints to it in the OP. The whole reason I initially went after Basel is that I thought he was joking in character as an aristocrat., and having a laugh with his scumbuddies in the QT.

 

Incidentally, I do have a theory for how the famine conditions might be slightly different for the scum team (since they're most likely aristocrats), but I don't really want the thread getting bogged down in setup talk this early.

 

Point is, it really sort of baffles me that you're pushing this angle without truly thinking it through. Looks to me like it might be a case of fake scumhunting.

 

Leaving the other stuff for another post, wanted to address this first. Next post will prob be in roughly 13 hours, given the website issues.

[peacesells]

Desp..I think you misunderstood Dap's post.

[peacesells]

Abilities

• Visits two people every night.
• Those two people receive bread.
• Can give a person two pieces of bread.
• Every person starts the game with three pieces of bread.
• If all bakers die, the town goes into famine.
• During a famine, every person eats a bread every day or night phase.
• During a famine, people die when they run out of bread.
• Sided with the village.

 

Doesn't say the scum go into famine.

[peacesells]

MOD SPEAK

 

MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN ASKING THIS BUT INCASE YOU HAVENT;

THIS IS A FAMINE BASED GAME. IT IS BASED AROUND THE ROLE KNOWN AS A BAKER.

 

THIS IS ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE ON MAFIA WIKI, HOWEVER FAMINE STARTS IMMEDIATELY AND ONE OR TWO BALANCING MEASURES HAVE BEEN ADDED.

 

MAFIA WIKI BAKER:

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Baker

 

From now onward, if you are inactive and posting less than the rules mandate you will lose a piece of bread to mould.

(So less than half the mods post count)

 

Should have done this in one post. 

 

So, famine is immediate and the wiki says TOWN goes into famine.  Where am I wrong here?

[peacesells]

 

You say you're unfamiliar with the Baker role, which is slightly hard to believe being that you are one of the most experienced people playing, but eh it is a role seldom used.

 

I only play here.  Show me a game on DM in the last 3-5 years (I took about 2 years off) where this role exists.  And if one does...I was not in the game. 

 

What is the point of you even making a statement like this?

[Thorum]

Abilities

• Visits two people every night.
• Those two people receive bread.
• Can give a person two pieces of bread.
• Every person starts the game with three pieces of bread.
• If all bakers die, the town goes into famine.
• During a famine, every person eats a bread every day or night phase.
• During a famine, people die when they run out of bread.
• Sided with the village.

 

Doesn't say the scum go into famine.

 

Indeed. Thanks for clearing that up. unvote

 

The sentence I (and others) was referring to, is the one above where you bolded, which states that scum ALSO suffers from famine. That would also be more logical, from a balancing point of view.

 

@Mods: the explanation you gave is dubious in this regard. Do scum also suffer from famine or do they not?

 

I agree on the Baker-never-on-DM point.

[hazelkrs1]

Okay hopefully the other post will eventually get submitted lol. Anyhoo, other stuff-

 

And I really mean that: if the famine wasn't mentioned in your pm, and you're a townie: come out and say so.  It would make the basel-case kinda moot.

 
 

Peace
 
For keeping on pushing about this non-issue, hoping for a reveal. Which would ONLY be advantageous for mafia.

 

AJ kinda already addressed this, but yeah I lol'd at this contradiction.
 

 You must be confused, my friend. I agree with you that people continuing to come in to chirp on their hunger looks a bit forced considering we know now that the Baker's bread is an important game mechanic. But your reasoning for suspecting me over the others is pretty bad. You're saying that because I posted a sad face afterwards that makes me more likely scum? C'mon dude... also, please reference my opening post of the game where I was the FIRST to mention the hunger, which immediately prompted your vote on Basel for our little exchange. You forgot about that already? See below. Couple that with your 'MOAR gameplay' posts which I have seen you do as scum makes me a little wary of you.
 

Idk about you guys, but I'm starving.
 
vote Basel
 
Sup bro 

 

 

I forgot that you had posted that on the first page, I just went back to where I made that post against Basel and checked the posts that came afterward.

 

Using the smiley as evidence might have been reaching, but the point is I was looking for someone trying to oversell that angle or be overly cute with it. You hinting at the hungry thing TWICE is actually still a little disconcerting for two reasons:

 

1. You yourself quote the OP not too long after this post, and point out how the hunger thing is hinted at there. This shows that you may have started hinting at the hungry thing because you thought that would be a good way to earn townie cred early.

 

2. You just recently got modkilled in another game for hinting at your role pm (which was against the rules in that game). I feel if you were town in this game you wouldn't be so cavalier as to do the same thing in this game. Granted, it's obviously not against the rules in this game, but you apparently didn't wait to confirm that sort of thing with the mod as you were one of the first to post, and THE first to mention the hungry thing
 

 

Peace
 
For keeping on pushing about this non-issue, hoping for a reveal. Which would ONLY be advantageous for mafia.

 
What reveal?
 

And I really mean that: if the famine wasn't mentioned in your pm, and you're a townie: come out and say so.  It would make the basel-case kinda moot.

 
Speaking of reveals...

 

 
 

Also, Peace looks a bit opportunistic for his Basel.

 

These two posts do make me feel a little better about you however. You point out the contradiction in Thorum's post without trying to use that to push his lynch harder, and I agree with your point about Peace.
 

 

Every face was grubby and gaunt, dark bags under the eyes and sunken cheeks. Even the children were starving. The royalty ate cake while the masses ate nothing. Bread was scarce, meat scarcer, and full stomachs did not exist for anyone outside of Versailles. 

the haves celebrating their riches and the have-nots scrambling for food. 

 
I'd like to reference everyone back to the OP. Here it clearly states that only those OUTSIDE of Versailles are starving. It even mentions bread.
 

 

And I really mean that: if the famine wasn't mentioned in your pm, and you're a townie: come out and say so.  It would make the basel-case kinda moot.

 
That's just not gonna work.  Just creates wifom that some will want to test for test purposes only.
 
Nothing stated says the mod gave everyone bread in their role pm.  Why would you assume this?
 
Why are you providing defense for Basel?

 

 
I agree with Peace here.
 

 

 

@ Peace. In the Epicmafia-link, it says
 

Every person starts the game with three pieces of bread.

Every PERSON. Not every townie. So, whichever allignment Basel has, he should have known about the famine.

 

 
Basil's  "slip" was before that link was posted.  So, your statement is wrong.

 

 
The baker role was on epic mafia before this game began. The role PM was an easy to figure out clue that there was a baker involved, and everyone in the game are in the same situation. Making comments about my RL situation is irrelevant. Therefore, it is your statement that is wrong, unless you somehow think I wouldn't know a baker situation when I see it, and then have the brains to look up the details of the baker role to get a better grip on how this game would work.

 

 
Your prior knowledge or recognition of the Baker role has nothing to do with it. The point was that I made an obvious reference to my role PM, which in theory other players with similar role PMs would recognize, and you didn't acknowledge it.

 

 

And back to me feeling bad about you again lol. So where do I begin...

 

1. You agree with Peace after saying he seemed opportunistic in going after Basel... and then you start to go after Basel. Contradiction much?

2. You quote the OP itself, showing where a scummie could have gotten the idea of starving people from, then claim to have made a reference to your role pm (something that I feel is outside the spirit of the game personally, and something for which you have recently been punished). Do you not see where someone might come to the realization that you might have in fact just gotten the hungry thing from the OP, and NOT your role pm?

3. You say you don't like Thorum's idea about a townie revealing if they don't have a mention of the hunger thing... and yet you say you were referencing your role pm. First of all, there really wouldn't be much wifom about the situation like Peace was trying to make it seem. Say a townie qualified for what Thorum was talking about, and then came forward and said there wasn't anything in their role pm about bread. We could lynch em, and once they flipped town we'd KNOW their wasn't really much point to pursuing that line of thinking (that mafia wouldn't have known about hunger or bread). Second, you support Peace's mention of that making too much wifom, but you yourself referencing your role pm (according to you) presents EXACTLY the same kind of wifom
 

 

Yes you're right, I got Thorum and Pray mixed up when writing that post. So actually if anything it would look like Yates possibly chainsaw defending you by voting Thorum instead, altho it would technically make more sense in that scenario if he voted me instead. Unless, that is, he had knowledge of Thorum's meta and thought he'd be an easier lynch, which he could have gotten from a teammate. Makes the previous post I quoted of Yates moar interesting- he could be trying to put on an act like he knows nothing of Thorum's meta.

Occam's razor, dude. I voted the way I voted for exactly the reason I said I voted it. Bonus fail points for neglecting to note that I gave you an opportunity to provide said Thorum meta knowledge and you failed to do so. I was willing to accept that I may be wrong but I wasn't willing to accept your statement as "fact" without some sort of evidence.

Minus 1 Town point for fabricating "evidence."
Minus 1 Town point for potentially signaling a setup opportunity.
Minus 1 Bonus Town point for failing to support what should be a provable statement.

Of course, you'd only be scummy if a potential scum buddy "bought" this nonsense for some reason.

Oh darn... 

This could actually be a double chainsaw defense. Not only protecting Basil, but also providing a new target.

 

(Despo edit: tried editing this quote, got messed up a bit. This was Peace talking about Yates voting Thorum.

Do you realize how silly you two sound right now? If you were to lynch Basel or he was vigged and flipped scum? Then you could try pushing this weak theory. Right now, you are pushing an idea with no basis in game play or evidence. That's naughty.

Minus 3 Town points for "me too," "cognitive dissonance," and "theory" spec support.

FoS: Des and Peace

 

 

Soooo many things wrong with this post.

 

1. Occam's razor is a dumb concept to use in mafia. It's generally a good idea not to make too many assumptions, but figuring out who the mafia could be is rarely a simple solution.

2. I could give two craps about your point system. I don't care how many town points I have in your eyes, my only focus is on catching scum.

3. Nice try trying to pigeonhole me into a scum hole just because I didn't fetch an example of Thorum's meta for you lol

I'm not your lapdog. I don't have to fetch examples of other games for you just to prove that I'm town. Im not the only one who said that stuff about Thorum's meta. If you don't buy it for lack of evidence, then just disregard it. Meta reads aren't really that reliable anyhow.

4. I NEVER said or hinted or implied in any way that my meta read on Thorum was "fact". You sir are completely pulling that shite out your rear.

5. Imma come back to this point in a sec, but you link me and Peace in omgus fashion, yet contradict yourself on this type of reasoning in the same post. You say that Peace can't make the link between you and Basel without a flip on Basel... yet you yourself link me and Peace? Hypocrite much?

 

Apologies for my abscense; although I was not hungover yesterday, exhaustion from the last month came and kicked me in the ass and rendered me utterly useless. I gotta look over the last two pages again, as I've only skimmed them, but for now it feels more like town on town for me.

 

Can you give us a little more than this Mish? WHO do you think was involved in the town on town violence? Just saying that kinda excuses you from having to specify who you thought could be town.

 

This looks like a possible scum snipe post to me.
 

Peace does look a bit opportunistic, but I'm more concerned over Thorum leaping to my defense like he has.

 

This made me feel a little better about Basel. Him not mentioning Thorum possibly buddying him would have pinged. Unfortunately, this would mean more had I not said what I said about Thorum sometimes linking himself too strongly to teammates- scum Basel could have seen this and known he had to distance from scum Thorum a bit.

 

 

Do you realize how silly you two sound right now?

FoS: Des and Peace

I maintain the following: The only time looking heavily into associatives, team-tells, etc is a good idea is when you have flips you can cement those associatives to. Otherwise you might be lynching two townies for a perceived team-tell that doesn't actually exist just to find you've been chasing your tail for two day phases.

With that said; I'll remove 1/2 scum point if either of you can go back and give an example of scum Yates targeting the low hanging fruit [ie. building a wagon on Thorum b/c he's the "easy lynch"]. I have a lot of scum games on this site - more than I statistically should - so it should be easy enough.

I can't have this hanging around as a distraction for several pages so put up or shut up, as they say.

 

Again, blatantly scummy things here.

 

1. You link me and Peace as apparent teammates, then quote that post and say people shouldn't look for "teamtells" without a flip. How are you okay with that blatant contradiction?!

2. Again with that lame points system, and again you try and force others to fetch something from outside the game, acting like the onus of proving something is on everyone else, not on you.

3. Such a WEAK WEAK attempt at defense with that shiz. First of all, most of us haven't had THAT much interaction at all with you, you just joined this site not too long ago. Second, your behavior in past games as a certain alignment IN NO WAY dictates EXACTLY how you will act as that alignment in the future. This is such a fail in logic I see no way you could genuinely buy it yourself. Scum abuse their meta all the time. If peeps expect me to do something as scum in one game, I will often do the opposite JUST to throw people off.

4. You seem to be fearmongering about your lynch a lot, which is absurd considering you're not even close to being lynched at this point. You make it seem like it should just be taken for granted that you're town, so we can "move on" to other targets apparently. This is just an outragously scummy thing to say. Being eager to "clear" yourself from the discussion is extremely antitown. If you're town, it will eventually show if you try to actively find scum.
 

 

 

That's the first joke I've ever heard from you bro. Worthy of a vote Pral,

I'm not sure I like it when you're happy  

 
*tap* *tap* Should I consider this a joke vote???
 
Anyway, you have played with me, what, 3 games? And you made up this meta? Try again :)

 
Haha. I already told Des it was. It was my way of admitting I tunneled on you last game unfairly.

 

Pretty sure Golden is town.

 

Unvote.

 

Wanted to test him to see if he came back at me aggressively in omgus fashion. He has recently established a scum meta which is relatively easy to pick out- much more aggressive and reactionary as scum, more levelheaded and logical as town. Of course there is some wifom here as I was recently mentoring him and brought this up, so he could be changing that, but for now I don't see it.

 

Vote Yates. Sooo many scumtells from him. If you don't fetch whatever evidence he asked from you for something, you must be scum. If you fos him for something, you must be scum. Trying to use meta in his own defense, and tragically at that. Trying to fearmonger people away from fos'ing him, plain and simple. Yates wouldn't play this shifty as town. Dude is obviscum.

[hazelkrs1]

Lol and that one posts immediately

 

Aight my updated scum reads are as follows: Yates, Peace, AJ, Mish. If Basel is scum, I'd bet Thorum is as well.

 

Now to go back and see how many people ninja'd me during my struggle with Cloudfare lol.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

Do you realize how silly you two sound right now?

 

FoS: Des and Peace

I maintain the following: The only time looking heavily into associatives, team-tells, etc is a good idea is when you have flips you can cement those associatives to. Otherwise you might be lynching two townies for a perceived team-tell that doesn't actually exist just to find you've been chasing your tail for two day phases.

 

With that said; I'll remove 1/2 scum point if either of you can go back and give an example of scum Yates targeting the low hanging fruit [ie. building a wagon on Thorum b/c he's the "easy lynch"]. I have a lot of scum games on this site - more than I statistically should - so it should be easy enough.

 

I can't have this hanging around as a distraction for several pages so put up or shut up, as they say.

 

Did I say you were?

 

 

Ahhh I knew I forgot something. To address this at Yates first: yes, I was bringing up the possibility of you trying to target low hanging fruit. I frankly don't care whether or not you SAY that you don't do this as scum, as I haven't played with you enough to make that kind of determination about your meta.

 

Either way, saying "I wouldn't do that if I was scum" is a terrible defense. We have no clue that your actual intentions are, and scum will do ANYTHING that they think gives them a chance to win. If Basel is scum and your teammate, are you saying you would be "above" trying to find an easier lynch candidate than your teammate? Is that really what you're selling?

 

 

Did I say you were?

Let's not split hairs - it was implied.

 

 

Aight so Peace said he didn't say the same thing, and I just went back and looked- he never made any mention of Yates possibly targeting an easy lynch with Thorum. He did agree that it could be Yates chainsaw defending Basel, that's all.

 

Which makes this post by Yates look that more questionable. Dude is way too defensive at this point of the game with very little focus on him, he's jumping to conclusions as to what people are saying about him.

 

Abilities

• Visits two people every night.
• Those two people receive bread.
• Can give a person two pieces of bread.
• Every person starts the game with three pieces of bread.
• If all bakers die, the town goes into famine.
• During a famine, every person eats a bread every day or night phase.
• During a famine, people die when they run out of bread.
• Sided with the village.

 

Doesn't say the scum go into famine.

 

 

Pretty sure that's a typo or something.

 

Again, how would a game like that be balanced? If the Baker is killed before he can give out bread, mafia would instawin once town starved out.

 

The whole point of the Baker role is to make an event which affects everyone. Having it affect only one team would pretty much make it a bastard role.

 

 

MOD SPEAK

 

MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN ASKING THIS BUT INCASE YOU HAVENT;

THIS IS A FAMINE BASED GAME. IT IS BASED AROUND THE ROLE KNOWN AS A BAKER.

 

THIS IS ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE ON MAFIA WIKI, HOWEVER FAMINE STARTS IMMEDIATELY AND ONE OR TWO BALANCING MEASURES HAVE BEEN ADDED.

 

MAFIA WIKI BAKER:

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Baker

 

From now onward, if you are inactive and posting less than the rules mandate you will lose a piece of bread to mould.

(So less than half the mods post count)

 

Should have done this in one post. 

 

So, famine is immediate and the wiki says TOWN goes into famine.  Where am I wrong here?

 

 

Ah I see what's going on. On some sites, "town" is interchangeable with the gamethread. Something that happens on thread can be said to have happened "to town", even tho scum are participating as well. Any kind of global event like that affects the town, even if it affects everyone in the game.

 

Think about it rationally for a second tho, from the balance perspective. How would you balance a game where an event can end up killing EVERY townie at once, without affecting scum? Famine is a global event.

 

 

 

You say you're unfamiliar with the Baker role, which is slightly hard to believe being that you are one of the most experienced people playing, but eh it is a role seldom used.

 

I only play here.  Show me a game on DM in the last 3-5 years (I took about 2 years off) where this role exists.  And if one does...I was not in the game. 

 

What is the point of you even making a statement like this?

 

 

Honestly, part of it was a jab at you to see how you'd react. I am surprised you haven't heard of it at all, cause I've seen the role referenced in a number of older games, but yeah I can understand not understanding the mechanics of the role if you've never seen it, and I don't think I have ever seen it on DM before. I've seen it on epicmafia and mafiascum, but seen it referenced in a lot of other sites.

[hazelkrs1]

With the recent posts from Peace, I'm more willing to believe he could be town instead of obfuscating scum.

 

On a sidenote, I was expecting a MUCH more active game considering how excited people seemed to be about this theme in the signups. I feel like there are a lot of non-participants right now.

[Andrej]

 

 You must be confused, my friend. I agree with you that people continuing to come in to chirp on their hunger looks a bit forced considering we know now that the Baker's bread is an important game mechanic. But your reasoning for suspecting me over the others is pretty bad. You're saying that because I posted a sad face afterwards that makes me more likely scum? C'mon dude... also, please reference my opening post of the game where I was the FIRST to mention the hunger, which immediately prompted your vote on Basel for our little exchange. You forgot about that already? See below. Couple that with your 'MOAR gameplay' posts which I have seen you do as scum makes me a little wary of you.

 

Idk about you guys, but I'm starving.

 

vote Basel

 

Sup bro 

 

 

I forgot that you had posted that on the first page, I just went back to where I made that post against Basel and checked the posts that came afterward.

 

Using the smiley as evidence might have been reaching, but the point is I was looking for someone trying to oversell that angle or be overly cute with it. You hinting at the hungry thing TWICE is actually still a little disconcerting for two reasons:

 

1. You yourself quote the OP not too long after this post, and point out how the hunger thing is hinted at there. This shows that you may have started hinting at the hungry thing because you thought that would be a good way to earn townie cred early.

 

2. You just recently got modkilled in another game for hinting at your role pm (which was against the rules in that game). I feel if you were town in this game you wouldn't be so cavalier as to do the same thing in this game. Granted, it's obviously not against the rules in this game, but you apparently didn't wait to confirm that sort of thing with the mod as you were one of the first to post, and THE first to mention the hungry thing

 

 

Every face was grubby and gaunt, dark bags under the eyes and sunken cheeks. Even the children were starving. The royalty ate cake while the masses ate nothing. Bread was scarce, meat scarcer, and full stomachs did not exist for anyone outside of Versailles. 

 

the haves celebrating their riches and the have-nots scrambling for food. 

 

I'd like to reference everyone back to the OP. Here it clearly states that only those OUTSIDE of Versailles are starving. It even mentions bread.

 

 

And I really mean that: if the famine wasn't mentioned in your pm, and you're a townie: come out and say so.  It would make the basel-case kinda moot.

 

That's just not gonna work.  Just creates wifom that some will want to test for test purposes only.

 

Nothing stated says the mod gave everyone bread in their role pm.  Why would you assume this?

 

Why are you providing defense for Basel?

 

 

I agree with Peace here.

 

 

 

@ Peace. In the Epicmafia-link, it says

 

Every person starts the game with three pieces of bread.

Every PERSON. Not every townie. So, whichever allignment Basel has, he should have known about the famine.

 

 

Basil's  "slip" was before that link was posted.  So, your statement is wrong.

 

 

The baker role was on epic mafia before this game began. The role PM was an easy to figure out clue that there was a baker involved, and everyone in the game are in the same situation. Making comments about my RL situation is irrelevant. Therefore, it is your statement that is wrong, unless you somehow think I wouldn't know a baker situation when I see it, and then have the brains to look up the details of the baker role to get a better grip on how this game would work.

 

 

Your prior knowledge or recognition of the Baker role has nothing to do with it. The point was that I made an obvious reference to my role PM, which in theory other players with similar role PMs would recognize, and you didn't acknowledge it.

 

 

And back to me feeling bad about you again lol. So where do I begin...

 

1. You agree with Peace after saying he seemed opportunistic in going after Basel... and then you start to go after Basel. Contradiction much?

2. You quote the OP itself, showing where a scummie could have gotten the idea of starving people from, then claim to have made a reference to your role pm (something that I feel is outside the spirit of the game personally, and something for which you have recently been punished). Do you not see where someone might come to the realization that you might have in fact just gotten the hungry thing from the OP, and NOT your role pm?

3. You say you don't like Thorum's idea about a townie revealing if they don't have a mention of the hunger thing... and yet you say you were referencing your role pm. First of all, there really wouldn't be much wifom about the situation like Peace was trying to make it seem. Say a townie qualified for what Thorum was talking about, and then came forward and said there wasn't anything in their role pm about bread. We could lynch em, and once they flipped town we'd KNOW their wasn't really much point to pursuing that line of thinking (that mafia wouldn't have known about hunger or bread). Second, you support Peace's mention of that making too much wifom, but you yourself referencing your role pm (according to you) presents EXACTLY the same kind of wifom

 

Apologies for my abscense; although I was not hungover yesterday, exhaustion from the last month came and kicked me in the ass and rendered me utterly useless. I gotta look over the last two pages again, as I've only skimmed them, but for now it feels more like town on town for me.

 

Can you give us a little more than this Mish? WHO do you think was involved in the town on town violence? Just saying that kinda excuses you from having to specify who you thought could be town.

 

This looks like a possible scum snipe post to me.

 

lol @ mentioning the hunger twice

 

Valid point in regards to me quoting the OP. I can see where you could come to this conclusion. If you look at the post in context, however, you'll see that I went back to bring it up because the argument had been brought up by Thorum/Peace about whether all players were suffering from the famine or just Town. The OP seems to clear this up, which is why I referenced in.

 

The other game where I was MK'd is irrelevant here. It is also ironic that you would mention this because although Dap and I were MK'd for hinting at a bit of our role PM you more or less revealed yourself because it was apparent you didn't understand what we were getting at (although it was only obvious to us in the dead thread). Wasn't this the entire basis of your vote on Basel? You also mentioned being hungry in one of your posts as well. So did you get it from your role PM or from the OP?

 

No, I don't think I am being contradictory. I am trying to look at the game objectively, so without knowing anyone's alignment at this stage besides my own, I am pointing out a potential play on Peace's part when he came in to vote Basel. Good scum will often make posts from a Town PoV, so because I made a comment on his potential play and also agree with one of his points isn't much IMO. I found Basel's response to be out of context to what Peace was saying, so I was clarifying. I don't feel like Peace voted him because he mentioned something about RL, I feel like it was because Basel didn't seem to catch onto what I was hinting at with my 'I'm starving' bit.

 

I'm not really following your last point about Thorum. Please explain it in better terms.

 

I agree with you on the Mish post. I would like to see her response.

[Andrej]

 

 

MOD SPEAK

 

MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN ASKING THIS BUT INCASE YOU HAVENT;

THIS IS A FAMINE BASED GAME. IT IS BASED AROUND THE ROLE KNOWN AS A BAKER.

 

THIS IS ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE ON MAFIA WIKI, HOWEVER FAMINE STARTS IMMEDIATELY AND ONE OR TWO BALANCING MEASURES HAVE BEEN ADDED.

 

MAFIA WIKI BAKER:

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Baker

 

From now onward, if you are inactive and posting less than the rules mandate you will lose a piece of bread to mould.

(So less than half the mods post count)

 

Should have done this in one post. 

 

So, famine is immediate and the wiki says TOWN goes into famine.  Where am I wrong here?

 

 

Ah I see what's going on. On some sites, "town" is interchangeable with the gamethread. Something that happens on thread can be said to have happened "to town", even tho scum are participating as well. Any kind of global event like that affects the town, even if it affects everyone in the game.

 

Think about it rationally for a second tho, from the balance perspective. How would you balance a game where an event can end up killing EVERY townie at once, without affecting scum? Famine is a global event.

 

I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you here in regards to 'the town' being a blanket statement for all the players. Not wanting to dive too far into set-up spec but it could be just as easily balanced by giving the mafia team more bread to start with, or simply allowing the baker to visit more players each Night. Dap did say he tweaked a bit, and I'd like to see his response to Thorum's question for speculating too much more.

[Andrej]

before*

[Andrej]

*nodnod* The 'it' is vague just a little

 

This post gives me a town-vibe from Hallia btw.

[peacesells]

Desp - ie the baker stuff and game balance.  I don't make assumptions about balance cause I don't know all the roles nor how Dap has tweaked this role.  Until more info is there I go by what is given.

 

On the TOWN world being used globally.  That is a possibility.  But I still think that Basel slipped a bit by not having a clue what AJ meant by starving. 

[peacesells]

 

*nodnod* The 'it' is vague just a little

 

This post gives me a town-vibe from Hallia btw.

 

Why?

[Andrej]

Because her agreeing with my question of Mish tells me that her thoughts are in-line with mine, which is a good sign considering my alignment.

[hazelkrs1]

lol @ mentioning the hunger twice

 

1. Valid point in regards to me quoting the OP. I can see where you could come to this conclusion. If you look at the post in context, however, you'll see that I went back to bring it up because the argument had been brought up by Thorum/Peace about whether all players were suffering from the famine or just Town. The OP seems to clear this up, which is why I referenced in.

 

2. The other game where I was MK'd is irrelevant here. It is also ironic that you would mention this because although Dap and I were MK'd for hinting at a bit of our role PM you more or less revealed yourself because it was apparent you didn't understand what we were getting at (although it was only obvious to us in the dead thread). Wasn't this the entire basis of your vote on Basel? You also mentioned being hungry in one of your posts as well. So did you get it from your role PM or from the OP?

 

3. No, I don't think I am being contradictory. I am trying to look at the game objectively, so without knowing anyone's alignment at this stage besides my own, I am pointing out a potential play on Peace's part when he came in to vote Basel. Good scum will often make posts from a Town PoV, so because I made a comment on his potential play and also agree with one of his points isn't much IMO. I found Basel's response to be out of context to what Peace was saying, so I was clarifying. I don't feel like Peace voted him because he mentioned something about RL, I feel like it was because Basel didn't seem to catch onto what I was hinting at with my 'I'm starving' bit.

 

4. I'm not really following your last point about Thorum. Please explain it in better terms.

 

I agree with you on the Mish post. I would like to see her response.

 

 

1.I understand why you were quoting the OP in that instance, but the point stands that you were aware of how the hunger was mentioned in the OP, which could explain why you were dropping the hungry hints (precisely because of trying the same tactic in the Cattan game). My qualm isn't that you quoted the OP where you did, but that you being aware of the wording of it opens the door for the possibility of the scenario I described.

 

2. You didn't really address my main point about this: You were MODKILLED in that game, a sever consequence, and yet in this game you try this same tactic apparently without checking with the mod first. Would you really be this cavalier as town to risk getting modkilled again so soon after your last one?

 

As an aside, you're also not responding to my point about that sort of thing being outside the spirit of the game. Hinting at your role pm to see who doesn't pick up on it is trying to catch scum based on their role pm, not how they play the game. It's a sneaky underhanded method to try to win imo. Didn't Nolder address this in the dead thread of that game?

 

My role pm DOES indicate that a Baker exists, yes. But I didn't drop the ":hungry: @ Baker" line as a role pm hint or test. In games with Bakers, you'll often see obligatory requests for bread. Even in games without one, the role is referenced with lines like that. It's pretty much like stating yourself to be town in a game where a Lie Detector seems to be present. Because the way the Baker role works, both town and scum want bread. Scum would arguably want it moar, considering in general they're more concerned with self-preservation, but no one likes starving to death.

 

3. Fair enough. To reestablish why I voted Basel however- it wasn't because I thought he didn't see the same indicators in his role pm. I assumed everyone got those indicators. Again, I have a theory for how the famine might affect the scum team differently, but I'll save that for later (if I say it at all). The reason I voted him was A. I thought he might have been joking in-character as an aristocrat and B. to try and get the game started.

 

4. Thorum said if someone that's town doesn't have something in their role pm mentioning starvation, they should let everyone know. Peace said this was a bad idea because of the wifom it would present (which is really kind of silly as it wouldn't present much wifom at all {btw I should specify that I don't think Thorum's idea was a good one, as I HIGHLY doubt anyone would have come forward in that situation- if someone that is immune to famine, they are likely third party of some kind}). You agreed with Peace, then pointed out how you "revealed" (in this case synomonous with hinted) info from your role pm purposefully.

 

So you agree that asking someone to reveal role pm info which could potentially clear up a situation for town is a bad idea, even tho you yourself already willingly gave up role pm info to gain something. That seems like a contradiction to me.

[peacesells]

There is wifom until that player is killed.

 

As town in the past I've stepped up with clarifying info before although it seemed liked scummy info.  The wifom that ensued afterwards pretty much negated any usefullness my coming forward provided.

[hazelkrs1]

Desp - ie the baker stuff and game balance.  I don't make assumptions about balance cause I don't know all the roles nor how Dap has tweaked this role.  Until more info is there I go by what is given.

 

On the TOWN world being used globally.  That is a possibility.  But I still think that Basel slipped a bit by not having a clue what AJ meant by starving. 

 

It's not really an assumption tho. If you had never heard about let's say.... a Sensor. Upon hearing about the role, would you think that the Sensor might know exactly which people on the train were scum, instead of just how many? I'd hope not, cause that would be an incredibly overpowered role that would be nigh impossible to balance.

 

I still agree that Basel could be scum, but I think there are better candidates right now. Speaking of which, what do you think about Yates right now?

[hazelkrs1]

There is wifom until that player is killed.

 

As town in the past I've stepped up with clarifying info before although it seemed liked scummy info.  The wifom that ensued afterwards pretty much negated any usefullness my coming forward provided.

 

In the scenario that Thorum was outlining, the next move after that person would have revealed would be to lynch them, both to make sure what they said was true, and to stop a potential scum gambit. So the wifom wouldn't have lasted long.

 

Unfortunately, even a good town play can't stop others from burying themselves in wifom. Wifom is an ever present obstacle in mafia however, I'm always wary of people who use it to fearmonger, which I think you may have been doing.

[Andrej]

1. Okay. Like I stated previously I can see how you'd come to this conclusion so I guess the most I can say is 'fair enough'. On the other hand, your point is sort of moot considering you insistence that the famine would be universal for all players. So even if I was aware that it was stated in the OP, I would still know from my role PM, correct? What it does tell me though is that you are allowing yourself to look objectively as well and consider all possibilities (or spinning as you see fit), which I wouldn't say is necessarily indicative of your alignment (yet) but that you are here to play. So game on bro

 

2. Your issue with it is a personal one and not related to my alignment, although you do mention that you feel it's an underhanded way to catch scum (IE: makes me town). I can understand why you feel that way but frankly I wasn't even thinking of the Catan game when I posted here. Also, I have no prior experience with a Bakerman game so I wouldn't know that the 'am hungry' posts would be considered obligatory from both sides.

 

4. I'm gonna grab some quotes so I can clarify here, I think you're misunderstanding.

[Andrej]

Ninja'd like crazy. 

 

Above post was @ Des