[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[_CLOUD]

Turin is probably also town.

[Tommyrod]

Golden also voted for Elf in #277 for "not scumhunting" IIRC

[_CLOUD]

## unvote

 

## vote Golden

 

 

I don't really like his double flip flop on me. It smacks of fake scumhunting (I had you as town but now mafia, oh okay town again) and buddying. Which is doubly weird since I am not a likely buddy target at this point in the game. 

 

I will be around today but not have a whole lot of time. 

 

 

Might be able to get to reply to cloud but tl;dr version for not voting you is I had Tommy as the leader and by the time I got to you being the more likely mafia of the two it is too late in the day and your lynch is too unlikely. 

 

 

 

Oh and BTW Csarmi, I actually like the VC style.

 

Because of this post.

[_CLOUD]

Yeah he seemed so convinced that Effie was town, but he ended up voting for Via right after her vote on him and reacted too emotional.

[_CLOUD]

scum*

[Tommyrod]

Here's Golden's later big reads list (in 3 posts)

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/page-24?do=findComment&comment=3118497

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/page-24?do=findComment&comment=3118512

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/page-25?do=findComment&comment=3118514

 

Let's dissect this, but keep in mind it's later in the day and more thorough so the chance of WIFOM is higher

[Krakalakachkn]

Nolder and Turn smack of town to me.

 

Nol because of Golden's L-1 vote and Turin because of his voting.  I believe Cloud pointed out the specific post.

[csarmi]

Et voila. Any further questions?

 

This game probably won't last long. (Why does salami spell mafia with two f's?)

Because we spell it like that in hungarian. And I never noticed it wasn't spelled that way in english. Not until Wombat pointed it out a few games ago.

[Tommyrod]

Golden had so many "SCUM" suspects on his list that it caught my eye the first time, and I'm guessing he buried 1 or 2 actual scum reads in that list so he could save face later. 

[csarmi]

If you got any questions to the mod, please ask them in the next 10 minutes. I'll be out for a couple of hours. Make sure you nudge me on QT too in case I miss it.

[Elaevia]

I was thinking the same thing - having a couple of team mates somewhere in his list.

 

I did this to amke it easier for myself as his 3 posts are over two pages, thought I might as well share

 

1- Peace - Scum.

2 - Cloud - Null

3 - Krak - Town.

5 - TommyRod - Town

6 - Leelou - Town. 

7 - Theodora - Scum read.

8- Eiffern - Still Scum.

9 - Hallia - Null leaning scum.

10 - BFG - Innocent Child 

11 - Via - nothing

12 - Nolder - Scum.

13 - BlackHoof - Town.

14 - Turin - Scum.

[_CLOUD]

Tom, Hally, Nolder and Turin look town to me because of their vote switching just before Nolder's lynch. 

 

Leelou came a little later to the party, and I personally felt that her switch to Golden was too early to be a busvote, and she did repeat her initial suspicion of Golden so I'm also leaning town on her if I analyze the votes but less so than the rest.

 

Effie's hammer looks bad. I will be sad if you end up being mafia after all.

 

 

I think Via is mafia because of her interaction with Golden, and her weak defense coupled with her backing away from her accusation on him. Golden also ended up unvoting from her, and he didn't bother looking at Effie even though he was so convinced that she was mafia. Peace and Thea also seem townie because of their early votes on Golden. This leaves Krak and Hoof as mafia.

[_CLOUD]

Via, Krak and Hoof are mafia. If the game is still going on then Effie is too.

 

/game

[Tommyrod]

Golden's scum list:

-Peace

-Theo

-Elf

-Hallia

-Nolder

-Turin

 

Town list:

-Krak

-Tom

-Leelou

-Hoof

 

Null:

-Cloud

-Via

 

People he flip-flopped on from his earlier reads:

-Cloud went from scum to null

-Turin went from town to scum

-Hoof went from scum to town

-Peace went from null to scum

 

I don't think Peace and Golden would be scum-scum based on their interactions.

 

I still find it weird that the only thing Hallia commented on in the first half of the thread was Golden's one-off post (see #386).

 

Hallia/Via are the most likely scum leads based on how they interacted with Golden.

[_CLOUD]

You guys can do the boring work and analyze his cases :P

 

 

/Cloud out

[Elaevia]

I feel vindicated

 

do you mean vindicated because Golden was mafia and you were going to hammer?

 

because you hopped off Golden's train earlier, and ended up on a train  that came from nowhere (ie there were no votes on krak earlier in the day) and was going to go nowhere

[_CLOUD]

Via, Krak and Hoof are mafia. If the game is still going on then Effie is too.

 

/game

 

You can scrap Effie of that list because we only have 4 mafia. There is also a third party out there though.

[_CLOUD]

I got a little carried away there when I started analyzing the votes. I think Effie is town because of her play. Every hammer would have looked bad.

[_CLOUD]

 

I feel vindicated

 

do you mean vindicated because Golden was mafia and you were going to hammer?

 

because you hopped off Golden's train earlier, and ended up on a train  that came from nowhere (ie there were no votes on krak earlier in the day) and was going to go nowhere

 

 

She actually hopped off Nolder's train.

[peacesells]

Nolders refusal to vote one of the larger trains is suspicious.

 

Nolder, can you explain why you were trying to start a brand new train just before the deadline?

[Elaevia]

 

 

I feel vindicated

 

do you mean vindicated because Golden was mafia and you were going to hammer?

 

because you hopped off Golden's train earlier, and ended up on a train  that came from nowhere (ie there were no votes on krak earlier in the day) and was going to go nowhere

 

 

She actually hopped off Nolder's train.

 

 yep, she went from voting Golden to Nolder (which gave us three trains at three votes each: Golden, her and Nolder) and then to Krak, so I would like to hear how she felt 'vindicated'

[Hallia]

Vindicated - To justify or prove the worth of, especially in light of later developments.

I had that scummy feeling on him and I was right XD

Regarding flipflopping - I don't find it scummy, I mean people's opinions change, and I'd rather change my opinion if my mind does change than cling to something I might feel is wrong.

[Elaevia]

for the record I think it's fine for players to change their opinion, that in itself I don't find scummy at all.

 

I suppose to me using 'vindicated' would be more applicable if you had been actively pushing for his lynch, making cases and rebutals on him, etc. Not just that you found him scummy, were going to hammer and he turned out to be mafia.

 

It seems a bit over the top for that.

[Elaevia]

more re flip-flopping / vote hopping: it has a 'going with the flow vibe' and the fact that you joined cloud on a train that wasn't going to result in a lynch so close to deadline (like with Theo), when you had previously left the train that we now know to be mafia - that is the bit that strikes me as scummy.

[peacesells]

for the record I think it's fine for players to change their opinion, that in itself I don't find scummy at all.

 

I suppose to me using 'vindicated' would be more applicable if you had been actively pushing for his lynch, making cases and rebutals on him, etc. Not just that you found him scummy, were going to hammer and he turned out to be mafia.

 

It seems a bit over the top for that.

 

I agree with this.  I don't think Hallia did anything of note to push the golden lynch, nor were there people condemning her opinions on him so that she would feel vindicated.