[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[_CLOUD]

@BFG #517:

 

 

Here I quoted the two posts that Turin wrote on page 10. Now allow me to point out I where I disagree with him.

 

 

First of all re personal attacks. I personally do not like or tend to employ them. I do treat everything on thread as gameplay. My main point was that Tommy was being hypocritical as I believe saying someone is a poor player (i.e. you suck at mafia ) is a personal attack. to then get hurt about Peace calling him out on ego was a bit much to me. Like a nerve was struck or he was worried his ploy was failing(worse in game IMO). That he now is after me after I called him on it and am refuting his(or anyone's with the exception of BFG who is confirmed) right to lead the town at this time is anti-town in itself. 

 

As to what Nolder and Csarmi have said. Fair enough. *hands over 5 more imaginary points to BG*

 

Few thoughts.

I forgot 2+2 was a poker forum since I only play mafia there and nothing else

I don't think elf is particularly scummy in her defense, it seems like something I would write, so that's good

Commenting on someone's play style is not a personal attack, it's precisely game related. Getting snippy about my ego qualifies as personal though

Darthe is an asshole

I have to figure out who is grinding against me due to actual dislike for my grandeur or due to being scum

Re: the busy question... I've noticed that mafia tend to enter the thread after having read everything and town just jumps in

Turin's self-conscious "not a defense" of Peace is AIDS. The way peace responded to me seemed non-bullshitty so I could swing toward this being Turin as mafia defending a townie for cred, while also indicting another townie AND leaving the floor open to later lynching Peace because of the wording suggesting Turin thinks Peace could still be mafia. Win-win mafia play.

##Vote Turin

*** Elect Tom for mayor ***

That is all

I doubt that anyone on here would forget that this is a fantasy novel website. Even those that just have come in to play mafia usually at least poke fun about being amongst the "geeks"

 

Something that you wrote. Maybe you did... 

 

direct inrerence, but I see it as an unneeded attack and also gameplay.

 

Darthe is a lovable demented crazy man. Cloud may indeed be mafia tho.

 

Both??? The big facade is great for mafia to hide behind.

 

Why wouldn't town read the thread? That would just be lazy play. Townies should read the thread to look for slips/pings/oddities. But thank you for your clarification.

 

AIDS??? I am assuming this is a term for really bad on a site you play? but well done on taking it there. Of course I think that Peace could be mafia. I only know BFG's alignment aside from my own. 

 

well, if you want to be elected then you must be asking people to vote for you... I aim to please.                                      

 

 

        ##Tommy

 

 

 

I think that Tommy's entire act is just that. trying to lead the town down the primrose path. I have seen skilled players do it when Mafia and If you can get the sheep to follow it works very well. 

 

I only agree with Turin about the personal attack bit.

 

The rest I mostly disagree with:

 

- It looks like Turin is trying to descredit Tom because he forgot that another forum also was a poker website. Sounds cheap.

- He is implying that Elf and Tom are teammates without backing it up. Turin appears to be fond of using these comments to pressure people.

- They disagree what justifies as a personal attack and what not. I think this is fair because the matter is very subjective.
- He says that I may be mafia. You can literally say this about everyone in the game except for BFG. I see no reason why he put his "read" on me in here except to just appear to be scumhunting.

- I actually agree with his next comment that it would be a good place for his mafia to hide behind. 

- I have seen a lot of townies jump into a game without having read the entire thread first. I think there is a certain pressure from the mafia team to know what is going on and they usually also inform each other of recent events through the QT.

- Another safe response by saying that Peace could be mafia, and that he only knows his own and BFG's allignment.

- Again I disagree that trying to take on the role of town captain automatically makes someone scum.

- And lastly he is giving a vague example how it all went wrong when someone was doing the thing Tommy is trying to do. Of course you shouldn't trust someone who is trying to take the lead, but you do that by actually analyzing that person's play and not just coming to the conclusion that if he is trying to lead the town he must be scum.

 

 

Stick to teaching the rest of your team on your QT for now please. 

 

 

And BTW, I think I said I've seen skilled players do it to great effect, not that you were doing that now. I further disagree that there is any one way to play mafia. So trying to imprint your playstyle on others is not in the best interests of the game itself. It may be in your own best interest as it makes it easier to play with others that play a similar style. You and nolder going  all "sole arbiter of play" here is pinging quite loudly to me. 

 

If you are not sane enough to realise where you are at any particular time then maybe you are not the best choice to follow. And it was more along the lines that you used Peace's comment about poker as a means to attempt to distract you when again you were the first to mention it. So maybe you shouldn't introduce things that you don't wish to talk about? 

 

From the mouths of babes appear some of the most universal truths...

 

Carry on. I shall be out for a bit

 

- He is again implying that Tom and a couple of other people are mafia in a jokingly way without backing it up with any kind of convincing argumentation.

- I agree with Turin that there isn't just one way to play mafia, and I personally find mafia as a game enjoyable because every player has a different playstyle. I however don't see how acting like the sole arbiter means that someone is again mafia. It's a null tell in my opinon.

- He is trying to discredit Tom because of his chaotic playstyle, and he is again attacking him because he forgot that 2+2 also functions as a poker site.

[_CLOUD]

I don't have a lot of time so I will respond to the most important bits right now: 

 

@Turin #524: 

 

Fair enough. We disagree on what constitutes as scummy play and that is fine with me. I'm also not fond of posting things just for reactions and I agree with you that it makes you lose credibility which is very difficult to gain back. I however didn't say anything I didn't stand behind in my post to Golden. I do think that Effie is town, and I didn't see why he was pushing for her lynch after I backed away from her. The way that I was fishing for reactions is in the presentation of my post to him. I decided to post in an arrogant way to see how convinced he was of Effie's mafianess, but I have to admit that I didn't get any good result from him because he reacted very emotional.

 

Of course I refuse to play your little mindgame. I never said that I was the greatest scumhunter in the game. I said that I was arguably the most effective scumhunter so far, meaning that I have been hunting the most and trying my best to establish good reads. I don't think that I'm the best player in this game, not by a long shot, but I do try my best to improve my play. I say this because I can easily be wrong about my reads and following you in your game can only lead to disaster because the entire discussion would be centered around me and the mafia would have a very easy excuse to hide their votes behind my actions. You seem to be awfully sure that I will flip mafia because of your proposal to play this game which I think is very anti-town, and yet I haven't seen any good argument from you why I'm mafia or any vote on me to back up your claims.

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day01#14

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof -> NULL

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via -> NULL

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder -> Hally

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL -> Nolder

09 - Hally: -> Golden -> Nolder

10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder

11 - Via: -> Golden

12 - Nolder: -> Hally

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace -> Nolder

14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL -> Krak

 

 

 

Golden - 3 - Peace, Thea, Via

Hally - 3 - Nolder, Leelou, Tommy

Turin - 1 - Cloud

Nolder - 4 - BFG, Elf, Hally, Hoof

Krak - 1 - Turin

 

Not voting: Krak, Golden

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

In 8 hours and 32 minutes.

[csarmi]

A heads up. I'll be leaving around the deadline to pick a friend up at the station and won't be around for a couple of hours. I may or may not extend the deadline to match that.

[_CLOUD]

Other mentors have gone as far as actually speaking in the game, past the checkin phase, so I figured it was ok.  They're there to help right?

 

You are right, but other mentors haven't made any game related posts. You and Yates sound more like a Hydra right now and it's more difficult to read you if you keep quoting him. I agree with your assessment of Golden's post by the way.

 

 

 

Hallia's train is a bad idea because I'm starting to get town vibes from her during these last few pages. I could go for either Nolder or Golden right now, and I'm leaning more towards Nolder being mafia.

 

##vote Nolder

 

 

I really have to go now. I will be back in 5 hours or something.

[Leelou]

Leelou, what do you think of Nolder?

 

I am trying to remember if I've played a game where Nol was actually scum. I don't like it when he plays lazy like this, but he's done it a few times as town. The only game I can think of recently he was scum in was an experimental game I was running on JN and he was actively pushing the townies. 

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day01#15

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin -> Nolder

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof -> NULL

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via -> NULL

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder -> Hally

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL -> Nolder

09 - Hally: -> Golden -> Nolder

10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder

11 - Via: -> Golden

12 - Nolder: -> Hally

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace -> Nolder

14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL -> Krak

 

 

 

Golden - 3 - Peace, Thea, Via

Hally - 3 - Nolder, Leelou, Tommy

Nolder - 5 - BFG, Elf, Hally, Hoof, Cloud

Krak - 1 - Turin

 

Not voting: Krak, Golden

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

In 6 hours and 32 minutes.

[Tommyrod]

Why do we still have two people who have yet to vote with 4 hours left? Oi. At least pick a wagon.

[Leelou]

##unvote, ##vote Nol

 

I don't know how long I'll be around today and I really hate no lynches. 

[Turin Turambar]

## unvote

 

## vote Golden

 

 

I don't really like his double flip flop on me. It smacks of fake scumhunting (I had you as town but now mafia, oh okay town again) and buddying. Which is doubly weird since I am not a likely buddy target at this point in the game. 

 

I will be around today but not have a whole lot of time. 

 

 

Might be able to get to reply to cloud but tl;dr version for not voting you is I had Tommy as the leader and by the time I got to you being the more likely mafia of the two it is too late in the day and your lynch is too unlikely. 

 

 

 

Oh and BTW Csarmi, I actually like the VC style.

[Nolder]

Dunno how much time I have right now but I'm going to work my way backwards and address what I can.

[Nolder]

##unvote, ##vote Nol

 

I don't know how long I'll be around today and I really hate no lynches. 

Does this vote strike anyone else as extremely ironic?

[Tommyrod]

There's a lot of votes on Nolder. If he flips town we should go after Hallie. 

[Nolder]

 

Leelou, what do you think of Nolder?

 

I am trying to remember if I've played a game where Nol was actually scum. I don't like it when he plays lazy like this, but he's done it a few times as town. The only game I can think of recently he was scum in was an experimental game I was running on JN and he was actively pushing the townies. 

 

That wasn't even mafia thought. :/

It was some sort of CYOA.

[Nolder]

 

Other mentors have gone as far as actually speaking in the game, past the checkin phase, so I figured it was ok.  They're there to help right?

 

You are right, but other mentors haven't made any game related posts. You and Yates sound more like a Hydra right now and it's more difficult to read you if you keep quoting him. I agree with your assessment of Golden's post by the way.

 

 

 

Hallia's train is a bad idea because I'm starting to get town vibes from her during these last few pages. I could go for either Nolder or Golden right now, and I'm leaning more towards Nolder being mafia.

 

##vote Nolder

 

 

I really have to go now. I will be back in 5 hours or something.

 

Consider what you just said in the first part of this post and then the second.

Do you think it's possible it's Yates' gameplay that is giving you townie vibes and not Hallia?

[GoldeneyesND]

## vote Nolder

 

If Nol flips town then I will start looking your way Tom, you seemed to be tunneling on him lately

[Nolder]

Your mentor is talking through you now? Is that part of the game? Lol... 

 

 

No, and I'd rather actually respond to Hallia and not what her mentor had her post. 

 

 

Other mentors have gone as far as actually speaking in the game, past the checkin phase, so I figured it was ok.  They're there to help right?

It's not fair but I don't really care either way.

 

BRING IT ON YATES!

[Tommyrod]

## vote Nolder

 

If Nol flips town then I will start looking your way Tom, you seemed to be tunneling on him lately

 

What are you even saying here? Not only have I *not* been tunneling on him, but I just myself expressed doubt about this wagon since it's got a pretty big majority for D1. You'll notice my vote's not on him.

 

Seriously, wtf. 

[Nolder]

Yates wants me to respond to this:

 

Don't have much time but I notice Hallia hasn't been around much.

Want to hear more from her before our deadline. If not, I have no problem with sending her to the executioner.

 

This really applies to Leelou as well - Since when does Hallia not posting=Hallia-scum? How many times have we been burnt on this? Why do you think I wanted to mentor her in the first place? 

 

 

 

And now I'm angry at you all for making me agree with _Cloud's assessment:

 

So the question that looms now is simply; are you scum trying to lynch a lurker slot or are you simply being lazy, as _Cloud alleges? /Yates

 

 

This was my first real contact with Yatezorz, he's been travelling, so I wasn't the only person 'lurking'

 

 

Since when does X not posting = X-scum?

 

Always. People cannot be given free rides to end game.

I've spoken on this extensively before and while I don't have the time to do so right at this moment I'll make a thread when I do get the time so when garbage like this pops up I can just point to my thread and be done with it. Seriously when your argument is this how do you expect me to take it seriously?

 

[Nolder]

None of that is remotely scummy though. Personally, I don't blame you for not being able to read it yourself, but you can't expect people to do it for you. You find the time, wait until you have the time, or post uninformed.

 

The deadline is like, today. Stop wasting time.

I never said it was scummy.

It's not about scummy it's about proper gameplay and covering all the bases.

It's like if a newbie claimed doctor and then later said they lied.

You don't let that person live no matter how sincere they may seem.

It has nothing to do with their gameplay at that point, it's just the safest course of action.

It's the same thing here. Obviously it's not about scummy play because there is no play to asses, scummy or not.

And that is exactly the point. If we can't tell if someone is scummy or not they need to go because we need to be able to read them.

 

As for finding time and not wasting time I don't really have in the first place.

Lol ok I'll get right on that. 

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day01#16

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin -> Nolder

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof -> NULL

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via -> NULL -> Nolder

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder -> Hally

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally -> Nolder

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL -> Nolder

09 - Hally: -> Golden -> Nolder

10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder

11 - Via: -> Golden

12 - Nolder: -> Hally

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace -> Nolder

14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL -> Krak -> Golden

 

 

 

Golden - 4 - Peace, Thea, Via, Turin

Hally - 2 - Nolder, Tommy

Nolder - 7 - BFG, Elf, Hally, Hoof, Cloud, Leelou, Golden

 

 

Not voting: Krak

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

In 2 hours and 58 minutes. I'll be around the deadline afterall. I may or may not extend it.

[elffern]

Golden is voting golden?

[csarmi]

No, that's Turin, I corrected it. Thank you Elfie.

[Nolder]

Ok looks like I'm back where I was last time I posted.

Thought that would take longer. Huh.

 

Well I guess I can give some general thoughts.

Hallia being absent, getting pressure, and coming back is kind of suspicious but could be a coincidence.

Not sure what Theo is doing that her postcount is so significantly lower than everyone else's right now.

 

Leelou is being mentored by Wombat which I didn't notice before. Could be his idea to push the joke lynches.

It's an easy thing to back out of later if called on it.

And call it being defensive but I really do think they are trying to knock me out early while I'm busy.

As I said earlier in the game I'm not getting really bad vibes from anyone yet which makes me think the scum are mostly among the less active players.

I have ranted publicly about activity plenty and discussed it privately with Leelou before as well so she knows I will hound inactives through the whole game...unless I never get that chance. If I had to take an intuition based gut guess right now I'd say the scum team is Leelou, Via, and Hallia or Theo. Admittedly this is based mostly on the actions of Leelou but I can't see any other reason why she'd target me early like this.

[Hallia]

There wasn't much of a 'coming back' considering it started at Christmas? Everyone was busy o.O And I was working on Christmas, as I said  So now I'm here.