[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[_CLOUD]

Golden, move your vote from Effie. She is town. I also have no idea what you are trying to accomplish by chasing after her in the first place after I stopped casing her.

[Leelou]

Cloud, don't tell me what to do. Hallia hides more actively as scum than she does as town. If she steps it up and I get a town vibe from her I will move my vote accordingly. 

[_CLOUD]

Is thera any chance you might consider moving your vote to Turin?

[Turin Turambar]

Ah, Turin, you and Krak are in my gray zone like you say.

 

Turin, why against Tommy and Cloud? Please summerise it for the stupid girls like me

My opinion is that Tommy is working too hard to place himself in the town leadership position. the silly OP challenge thing. Some of the statements about follow me to victory. His statement about the low posters ALWAYS producing results. there are no absolutes in mafia. Anyone trynig to tell you otherwise is trying to sell something. So I am very leery of him. My wanting to not let him slip by without any scrutiny may have gone too far and been stoked by the poor meshing of our styles.

 

Cloud especially on reread looks to be following along with a zeal that can not be explained by the talk of town leaning. They working together and that feels off for the start of the game. Also on cloud has been the push to lynch like he wants to get to Night phase. (he pushed hard on elf, talked about people stalling and waiting for the deadline to rush vote when there was not even a deadline yet, jumped at the "lynch hoof" thing before Hoofie had even gotten the chance to hang himself) The Darthe influence here is possible but it looks weird to me.

 

Cloud and Tommy have defended each other quite a bit. moreso than a normal town pair on D1 would have a right to IMO. 

[Elaevia]

Not fully caught up yet, but here are some thoughts for you as I am reading along

 

on the topic of getting pings / scum reads so early in the game:

When you are dealing with very limited information, having one ping doesn't really mean very much (for example you can't tell if a dice is biased if you have only rolled it once). The way I read it elf put out a thought that was a slight ping, and then the game developed.

And discussion and opinions and posting is as much a tool for town as voting is.

 

 

 

And before this turns into my "defense" of Peace, I don't like any of the name calling that I see in some games... So can we just get back to wanting to kill each other in a civilised manner?

 

 

I had a little LOL at this, Marquess of Queensberry and the like

[Leelou]

Is thera any chance you might consider moving your vote to Turin?

 

He is on my maybe list right now. 

[_CLOUD]

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

[Elaevia]

 

Re: the busy question... I've noticed that mafia tend to enter the thread after having read everything and town just jumps in

 

 

I really don't agree with this - the thread is the only place town get any information, how can they 'jump in' without reading? Mafia however can be getting information from the QT, so post without reading

 

 

Actually you need to be clearer.

 

Saying "do I really have to regurgitate Cloud's reasoning" is not actually saying that you agree with Cloud's reasoning.

Stop being difficult please.

 

 

It's true he hasn't said outright in his own words: to what extent he agrees with Cloud, if there is anything else etc. But this in itself is information we can use later in the game.

 

(the discussion about peace's vote goes on into the next few pages, so not just Nol raising this point. Elf presses the point quite a bit)

[Turin Turambar]

Cloud, those were just two recent examples that came to mind as I was directly involved or watching them happen. It is a common tactic that mafia will try to employ.   

 

You have become quite the bossy MCBossypants here.  Telling people who they can and can not vote on D1. With all your scumhunting skills. I call shenanigans. You starting to sound like a bad Darthe impression. The Mafia Darthe too which is worse. 

 

you looking more and more like Tommy's like attack dog on a leash. attacking those he points you at so he can stay looking like he is cool and above the fray.

[Turin Turambar]

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

 

 

Why do you think you can tell others what to do? 

[_CLOUD]

 

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

 

 

Why do you think you can tell others what to do? 

 

 

Why are you taking everything so serious? I admit that I did a Darthe impersonation a couple of times just for the fun of it, but all my moves so far have been completly game related and had no ill will in mind. I'm trying my best to gain as much info as I can to try and solve this puzzle. And I'm not Tom's "attack dog on a leash". We just happen to share the same scum read right now. Notice how I don't go after Peace while he was casing him because I have a town read on him.

[_CLOUD]

I would love to hear your thoughts on my case by the way. Your aggressive attitude isn't making you look any better in my eyes though

[Elaevia]

 

06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat)

Opening seemed okay to me. Her chatter with others still feels natural and not forced by the time I enter the thread. She rebuffs me right off the bat, which is probably more town indicative than not; mafia would be more likely to sheep me (since I'm asking people to do so) and observe if I lead a mislynch to start with. It sucks that she won't try to analyze OP's though. Leeloo is getting a little too off-topic for my liking around the time #84 comes around. Votes for Nol in #104; he hasn't posted yet. Why not vote for someone else who hasn't posted like dan? Could be something, could be nothing. She's still jokey around #117 but at least comments on how Elf was backpedaling on suspicion of me. Still grinding against me in #126, but it feels genuine. Leelou is my first comfortable town read. (Looks like Cloud agrees with me in #128 and Peace grinds against that.)

 

07 - Theodora (mentored by Key)

Lame opening in #12. Being friendly with Blackhoof right off the bat in that post. THEN calls Hoof scummy in #74. Not that I... blame her... but this could be a case of scum-on-scum jostling. This happens surprisingly often in early game, where mafia will point out something dumb that mafia have done and not follow up on their suspicions but later can say "hah! I knew it!" When Cloud asks about it, she instantly backs down. Which is funny, since that Hoof post pinged me hard. I would expect a townie to probe into it a bit more? 

 

 

09 - Hally (mentored by Yates)

Opening post #27 pinged me on second read considering how little has been said by Hallia. It's both off-topic and me-too-ing the friendly chat that Theo and Hoof had already. Notably, Hally joins in on Hoof's spam-fest in #53.

 

. 

Re Theo - the bolded - well maybe people just notice different stuff and think different things are important 0 the game would be very boring if we all thought alike and all did exactly as you told us to

 

Re Leelou - the bolded sentance: if Leelou's criterita for voting at this point is ' no posts' (which is an assumption you are amking, or has Leelou confirmed this and I missed it?) why does it matter which of the 'no posters' she voted for?

 

Re Hally: I don't know about the 'spam party' you say is between Hally, Hoof and Theo, but there is nothing pingy about Hallia's play for me at that point

[Turin Turambar]

I would love to hear your thoughts on my case by the way. Your aggressive attitude isn't making you look any better in my eyes though

LMAO

[Turin Turambar]

 

Yeah Blackhoof doesn't look good.

 

 

##unvote vote Blackhoof

 

You now all of a sudden agree with me? You didn’t respond back at me when I retorted your arguments for why I must be scum, and you kept your vote on me since then without bother to reply to anything in the game except to call me out for buddying, so your sudden switch to Hoof without explanation seems odd.

 

 

Last first. When were you confirmed as town? BFG is the innocent Child and therefore the ONLY confirmed townie at present.

 

I don’t agree with your argument that you can only call confirmed townies, town. Town hunting is just like scum hunting an essential part of playing mafia, and you accusing Tom of having strong town reads sounds like a cheap scum strategy.

 

So for you to go around like you are the instructor of mafia in this game where even the experienced have mentors(or advisors) is ridiculous. I have used similar tactics in a game here at least once. There was a new player game and my student vanished at the start of the game making me the player. I was able to lead the town of new folks to achieve mafia victory. I have also seen Dap employ this in the Indiana Jones game I helped(term used loosely) Ithi mod some time ago. So forgive me for not being ready to follow into lock step with you.

 

You are against the idea of someone leading town because you have seen it being done by the mafia twice before? You are trying to support an argument by only presenting evidence that would back up your claim; a claim which is at the same time wrong because almost every game has a player who takes up the mantle of town captain on him.

 

 

Since I think you are the most likely mafia at the moment followed by your most pro town player cloud. In reading to here I did notice a lot of chummy behavior between you including where he defended you from elf. you called him out but backed off the defending charge from seeing his vote on elf. All that does is turn it from regular defense to chainsaw defense. But you already knew that.

 

So you think I’m scum because Tom has a strong town read on me? I have made a lot of game related posts since the start of Day 1 and yet the best thing you could find to try and accuse me was to grab on to that one post where I appear to be defending Tommy. You can’t actively engage in scumhunting without ending up defending someone else.

 

You start out with that ridiculous OP challenge thing, like Leelou said to WOW the crowd with your skills. Then proceed to demand that town follow you to victory. You don't say a town victory tho do you? And several times you have stated that anyone that grinds against you must either not like your style or be mafia themselves. How about I just think you are mafia?

 

And now you are just nitpicking. I bet that if Tom said that we should follow him to achieve a town victory you would have jumped on him by saying that if he were actually town he wouldn’t have stated it like that. The OP challenge wasn’t even that big of a deal to begin with, and so far I think you have taken jokingly comments out of context, argued semantics and made mountains out of molehills.

 

 

He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize.

 

I haven't been eager to get through Day 1 at all. I have the second highest post count of any player in this game, and I have arguably been the most effective scumhunter so far. It’s interesting that you seem to agree with Nolder’s line of reasoning because you start taking a completely different stance on this topic when you talk about Nolder’s play.

 

When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point?

 

Check post #283 where I give my reasoning for why I don’t like Hoof’s vote on Peace.

 

or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing?

 

Darthe hasn’t been pulling my strings at all. It isn’t even allowed for a mentor to actively participate in a game. I got a town read on Leelou because she seemed to have gotten genuinely annoyed at Tom’s light-hearted comment at the start of the game, and I don’t see a reason for her to be if she were mafia.

 

Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.

 

You only seem to have a mafia read on me and Leelou because we both think Tom is town. Your argument that everyone who has a town read on Tom is mafia themselves is within the same line of reasoning as your accusation of Tom where you call him out for thinking that everyone who disagrees with him is mafia.

 

 

Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote.

 

I agree with the things you said here, but the reason I quoted this part is because it’s in contrast to what you said earlier when you gave your reads on me. You repeated Nolder by calling me out for being eager to get through Day 1 and now you don’t agree with him anymore. So which one is it? I advise you to stick to one story the next time you are mafia.

 

No one but the mafia know who the mafia are at this point, and there are few ways for townies to know any other townies either.

 

There is. It’s called being a good scumhunter.

 

So you guys gonna claim masons now? Cause if your not mafia, they have already surmised that is about the only thing that could justify your complete faith in cloud at this time as well as his in you and the banter you are throwing back and forth.

 

Tom and I aren’t Masons or Lovers.

 

 

##Unvote Hoof, ##Vote Turin.

 

1. Why is this here? It is just ugly... This is supposed to be my case. get Krak outta there.

 

2.Think about this. Who knows the alignment of more players? Town or mafia? So who is more likely to be able to point and say that someone is of a particular alignment? And having town reads that you are too confident of in early game is very dangerous. it leads to following which leads to sheeping which leads to mislynches.The other problem I have with the out of the blue "player X is town" post is that it is worthless unless you actually provide real reasons. The first problem is that you could be WRONG.. you say that player X is town, you get killed and people start thinking that since you were town and thought they were town then they are likely town. point of discussion it is fine but I try to erase those posts when I see them. Why do you think Leelou is tow or did you just make it up? 

 

3. Those were only 2 examples that immediately came to mind. there are many mre if one wants to go look. The point is that if town lets the first person to jump up and wants to lead do so they are setting themselves up for failure. you need to vet your leaders first and then see where they lead. to follow blindly is foolish IMO  You only have 1 vote do not give it to someone else to use. Town is a team they do not need someone telling them who to vote and who not to vote. I guess I don't like the town captain thing at all. If they are heading the wrong way and get killed town is too likely going to continue on following the last woshes of the dead leader. He must have been on the right track so mafia killed him right?

 

4. your interactions with Tommy do not seem like natural town interactions for early D1. it was too immediate and to trusting. a complete web of trust as Dap would say. Maybe it is just me but I don't trust anyone that early, that much. (well except ithi in interest of full disclosure but that is because she will be investigated and/or killed early in most games) But your other actions like the appearance of pushing the mod for a deadline which usually helps mafia work to get a mislynch and the cheerleading do not sit right. As to defending, I believe that a very big part of the "case" on me was that I was defending Peace while IMO I was pointing out that i thought the initial comment from Tommy that Peace was no very adept was very much an attack. So in the words of Rambo "they drew First Blood". then for Tommy to get huffy about Peace's retort about ego felt off. Good for the goose and good for the gander.

 

5. I thought this was D1 of a mafia game? you look for any slip that you can find. Someone I believe said that mafia was nit picking.(I find it a little odd that you use that particular phrase as that is the same phrase that Tommy has used. maybe it was set out as a talking point in your QT).So only some are allowed to do it. very well will you give me a list of who is allowed to pick nit and parse words and so forth. As well as against whom we are allowed to this to. kthx.

 

6. blow your own horn much? "I am the greatest", LOL. post count doesn't mean squat once it is at an acceptable level. And it could easily be argued that your high post count is a sign of you trying to push lynches(mislynches) and get thru to N1 so you and the rest of your team can use your given gifts. It is what you have said that makes me question your motivation. You did ask the MOD for a deadline. you have made the obligatory "when we gonna get today's lynch done?" post. So your attempt to give yourself the title greatest scumhunter is denied. especially since you are currently voting a townie. As to Nolder, I don't agree that you should try to vote merely for pressure but the point of you pushing the day along was valid IMO for the other reasons I gave not for the fact that you pushed hard on someone.

 

7. Was that before you lynch Hoof post? if you could quote both for me it would be appreciated. for now I will say fair enough until evidence proves otherwise.

 

8. So it was a response to one post. because she reacted to an insult. alignment would not influence her response there IMO so I have to disagree with the read and also again state that it is IMO wrong to make such a statement and base future decisions on such a thing. 

 

9.  Wrong read above about you. Leelou has done some things herself to give me a mafia feel. the hanging on tothe Nolder vote well past the time it was warranted. hell even she said she wasn't trying to get him lynched. since then she has also just follwed Nolder onto a low poster in the attempt to get post out of them. This is actually the same type of activity that I decried in my opinion on Nolder. that her vote isn't really a vote to lynch but to achieve some other goal. possibly as simple as parking her vote. (which is what she accused me of BTW even tho I have been fairly adamant in my conviction that Tommy is possible mafia and bears closer watching)

 

10. See above. Your eagerness shows by your other actions. Nolder using your hard push of a case against elf  was incorrect and I stated it as such. I do find that your 180 on her is a bit odd. You were trying to convince everyone to vote her and now she is so town that you are defending her hard. On D1? it does seem a stretch. Oh and I always keep my story straight as mafia. That is why Darthe always says I'm town. lol

 

11. care to put your money where your mouth is? tell me definitively who the 3(or 4) anti-town people are right now. Tell me in order how we should vote them. Once you are wrong about someone you volunteer to be the next day's lynch. If you are as good as you think then you will either be dead in the next two nights or the game will be over quickly. If you keep going after me and agree then you will be dead tomorrow. (Here is where he calls it a martyr play and no townie would do such a thing...)

 

12' so mafia together then? LMAO  or maybe you just buddied up to him and his ego fell for it. 

 

 

So where is the actual case on my mafianess again? it merely looks like you disagree with what I am saying about Tommy and yourself. And Leelou also. The rest is mostly you defending yourself. TBH you look a lot like me when I am mafia and Ithi is town. follow along and be good. hide in the leaders baffles. then when the mislynches add up point at him as the one leading the town astray. It is easy as long as the leader buys in. At least until you have to choose between losing a teammate for cred or disagreeing with the leader.

 

##unvote

 

give me your list if you agree to the terms

[Leelou]

Turin, you really haven't played mafia with me. At all. Give actual post examples of what you find scummy from me. I leave a joke vote until I find something scummy. Hallia not posting is scummy. She hides as scum, which I posted. I posted a couple mins after nolder since I was typing up my post and didn't actually see his vote until after I posted.

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

 

 

Why do you think you can tell others what to do? 

 

 

Why are you taking everything so serious? I admit that I did a Darthe impersonation a couple of times just for the fun of it, but all my moves so far have been completly game related and had no ill will in mind. I'm trying my best to gain as much info as I can to try and solve this puzzle. And I'm not Tom's "attack dog on a leash". We just happen to share the same scum read right now. Notice how I don't go after Peace while he was casing him because I have a town read on him.

 

What are you on about? I mentioned no ill will. ALL posting on thread is gameplay. it is there to be scrutinized. that is how this game works.

 

My question. is why do you think you can tell others what to do? Because you posted on thread specific instructions regarding not voting Elffern since you were no longer voting her => she must be town.  

 

 

If you wish not to reply to the question or backtrack from the previous statements then just say so. no need to be defensive emotionally.

 

I am trying to find out who is mafia here as well.  

 

And who is Tommy voting now? I don't think it is me anymore. So maybe you were only budding as it suited you then.

[Turin Turambar]

Turin, you really haven't played mafia with me. At all. Give actual post examples of what you find scummy from me. I leave a joke vote until I find something scummy. Hallia not posting is scummy. She hides as scum, which I posted. I posted a couple mins after nolder since I was typing up my post and didn't actually see his vote until after I posted.

Correct on the first. Not gonna go thru posts right now. maybe tomorrow. 

 

Meta defense noted. 

 

I find it a bit of a stretch that with everything else that has been going on in the game that the first most scummy thing you found to vote for was that Hallia, a known serial lurker, had not posted much. Hell she has been a confirmed townie and lurked all game. That to me would be like finding Despo writing a Wall of Text with infinite multi quoting and spoiler tags scummy just for the long windedness. Also the way you posted it that you were just looking to vote her to get her to come and post something felt like just the type of voting but not to lynch that I was calling Nolder out for. That he chose the same target only made it look worse.

 

Fair enough if you didn't see his post. It looks odd and I noted it. 

[Tommyrod]

 

 

06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat)

Opening seemed okay to me. Her chatter with others still feels natural and not forced by the time I enter the thread. She rebuffs me right off the bat, which is probably more town indicative than not; mafia would be more likely to sheep me (since I'm asking people to do so) and observe if I lead a mislynch to start with. It sucks that she won't try to analyze OP's though. Leeloo is getting a little too off-topic for my liking around the time #84 comes around. Votes for Nol in #104; he hasn't posted yet. Why not vote for someone else who hasn't posted like dan? Could be something, could be nothing. She's still jokey around #117 but at least comments on how Elf was backpedaling on suspicion of me. Still grinding against me in #126, but it feels genuine. Leelou is my first comfortable town read. (Looks like Cloud agrees with me in #128 and Peace grinds against that.)

 

07 - Theodora (mentored by Key)

Lame opening in #12. Being friendly with Blackhoof right off the bat in that post. THEN calls Hoof scummy in #74. Not that I... blame her... but this could be a case of scum-on-scum jostling. This happens surprisingly often in early game, where mafia will point out something dumb that mafia have done and not follow up on their suspicions but later can say "hah! I knew it!" When Cloud asks about it, she instantly backs down. Which is funny, since that Hoof post pinged me hard. I would expect a townie to probe into it a bit more? 

 

 

09 - Hally (mentored by Yates)

Opening post #27 pinged me on second read considering how little has been said by Hallia. It's both off-topic and me-too-ing the friendly chat that Theo and Hoof had already. Notably, Hally joins in on Hoof's spam-fest in #53.

 

. 

Re Theo - the bolded - well maybe people just notice different stuff and think different things are important 0 the game would be very boring if we all thought alike and all did exactly as you told us to

 

Re Leelou - the bolded sentance: if Leelou's criterita for voting at this point is ' no posts' (which is an assumption you are amking, or has Leelou confirmed this and I missed it?) why does it matter which of the 'no posters' she voted for?

 

Re Hally: I don't know about the 'spam party' you say is between Hally, Hoof and Theo, but there is nothing pingy about Hallia's play for me at that point

 

 

 

 

YOUR HERO HAS RETURNED

 

 

Sup. Who'd you replace? The zero posts guy?

 

 

Uno: Everybody should do exactly as I say because I am awesome.

 

Dos: It doesn't strike you as odd that someone would vote a person with zero posts but not acknowledge the other person with zero posts? If Leelou was scum, I would consider this a scumslip.

 

Tres: Hally hasn't HAD any play to not be pingy at that point. That's exactly what's pingy, lol. All three of those players were being chatty and not discussing the game, but Hally is the most guilty of that. Of that group, Hoof looks the best recently. 

[Hallia]

It's a good thing I told the mod I wouldn't be active until today.  I wasn't posting because I only had a few minutes to devote here and there until this afternoon.   Now that I'm no longer on call, I can actually get into the game.  I think I mentioned it earlier, so yes, lazy votes on me are lazy.

[Hallia]

 

I would love to hear your thoughts on my case by the way. Your aggressive attitude isn't making you look any better in my eyes though

LMAO

 

 

 

O.o I don't see how you think Turin's attitude has been aggressive.  He makes good points, and he's not being all sassy about it.  Methinks you're trying to cast an evil light upon him

[Tommyrod]

Peace isn't really doing anything to convince me otherwise of his scummyness..... mafia isn't about debating? What? What is it about then?

 

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

 

In one of your first posts you mentioned that Tom's eagerness is the only thing that stood out to you, and now you call him out for trying to get a lynch going by using very thin reasoning and at the same time trying to set up an escape if his attempt would fail. I again disagree with your explanation regarding his actions so far, but it's certainly interesting that you are now trying to backpaddle away from your initial read on him by saying that you want to wait for him to talk more. You haven't stated your suspicion on anyone else and you even admit that it's best to go with the worst possible case first, but you still aren't willing to vote for him at this stage of the game.

 

##vote Elf

 

 

already discussed to death, but this vote pings me. right off the bat, little reasoning behind it..... sure it is a day 1 vote, but it was made in the first few hours of the day, with a semblance of having reasoning to it.

 

##vote elf

 

also discussed to death- unexplained vote, implied that he is using cloud's reasoning (which was bad anyway) and refused to explain it later on, despite prodding. 

 

 

 

Personal attacks after I put doubt on you isn't very Christmaslike :(

 

It's not very town like either

 

##Vote Peaceinthemiddleeast

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we've hit scum already

 

-Self conscious (evidenced by OP gimmick)

-Sheep voting with no discussion, expecting the wagon to take off

-Overly defensive and gets into personal attacks on Day 1 (lol)

 

Definitely the most suspicious play so far

 

Follow me to the promised land

 

I only agree with you about his touchy attitude in this game, but the rest is null. Do something useful and follow me on Elf instead.

 

 

tunnelling on elf some more

 

 

 

Nolder, why have you been up Cloud's ass in this game when he is arguably the most pro-town player in this game? Who are your top 3 scumreads right now?

You can make that argument if you want to. I'll laugh and call you dumb though.

 

As for scumreads.

I'm reluctant to narrow my focus to just three people right now, it's too early in the game for that.

Especially given that so many people have barely posted.

If I've noticed something off or wrong or whatever I've called people on it.

Nothing has been held back thus far so what you've seen is what you get.

 

I will say that out of everyone Krak has been the only one to give me a town vibe thus far.

 

 

all this discussion and you aren't willing to make any statements, other than Krak, who hasn't posted much? (not that I can talk, really)

 

 

He has been actively scumhunting, and pushing hard I'm several people to get reactions and the game going. He might be scum trying to gain townie cred and take the lead in the game, but I am leaning town at the moment.

 

Haven’t I been doing the exact same thing that makes you have a town read on Tom? You don’t even seem sure of your town read on him when you say that he could still be scum, but that you are just leaning town on him for the moment. You are allowing so much wiggle room in your reads in this game. It’s insanely scummy.

 

As for you, I haven't really liked your play at times, I will go through it again when I have time.

 

You have a scum read on me and yet you can’t get further with explaining why than saying that you don’t like my play at times. I can’t take your read on me serious if you don’t come up with solid reasoning or at least an argument that sounds halfway logical.

 

As for your flip on elf, it just didn't seem like she said anything different to convince you. Like after pages of back-and-forth, since a senseless and over-eager vote on your part, you just agree and team up against peace. I don't even know, it is just weird.

 

My flip on Effie didn’t come out of nowhere like you try to make it appear, and even here you allow yourself enough wiggle room to change your mind later by saying that it “seemed that way”. I was having a back and forth with Effie since the start of Day 1, and post #234 was the turning point for me because I then realized that she managed to beat down every argument I had against her. You call my early vote on her senseless and over-eager, but you don’t even care to point out what you found wrong about it. And I’m not teaming up against Peace. Me asking Effie to summarize her case on Peace so that I could understand it better doesn’t in any way mean that I agree with her. I still have a town read on him.

 

Because I don't think they both are? Out of my current reads, cloud and peace are scummy to me, but peace much more so.

I guess one could look at it that way- or you could look at it that I find both scummy but don't think that both are mafia, because that would be terrible play.

 

This doesn’t even make sense dude. You have both of us as your scum reads, while at the same time accusing me for teaming up with Effie to go after Peace (which is obviously a lie), and then you don’t think that we are both scum because that would be terrible play from our part?

 

Pfft, eagerly pushing for an easy hoof lynch, are we? not AGAIN....*yawn*

 

I also don’t like this part of your post because you are purposefully defending yourself by bringing up the fact that you are often a Day 1 lynch. It isn’t the fault of other players when they want to lynch you because they find your play scummy.

 

 

##vote Hoof

 

 

1: I do it all the time- I don't like making definite statements in a game like this. No, you have been tunnelling on Elf more than anything.

2: I said that I would expand when I have time- even now I feel too tired to form a proper case. Don't take it seriously? your call

3: what was wrong with it WAS that it was senseless and over-eager. There was no real reason behind it, and it happened so soon, and it reeked of scum trying to get a quick lynch, before the day could get into full swing. only the scum benefit from a quick day.

4: I don't mean LITERALLY on a team with Elf, I meant it  figuratively. One can find someone scummy without someone absolutely positively being scum. There is always room for error and uncertainty.

5: true enough. twould be nice if this particular train on me wasn't terrible.

 

I'm still waiting for Nolder to respond to me...

 

Hoof thinking I'm town really doesn't do anything for me. I don't see how she can conclude "one of" Cloud or Peace is scum, but assume it's impossible that both are. I haven't seen any posts from Hoof exploring that reasoning. As a townie, knowing there's at least 3 mafia in this game, you should be pushing AT least 2 suspects if not 3... pushing "one or the other" just leaves you open to mislynch options if they're both town and you're scum.

 

##Vote Hoof

 

I'm willing to listen to you Hoof, but I need far better than this. 

 

Krak, you should really expand your thoughts, you're floating a lot.

 

I'm... I'm a guy..... :P

 

Well, maybe not impossible, but not likely in my opinion. It seems like bad play for 2 out of a likely 3 scum members to act like Peace and Cloud have been.... but I can see how it might be open for me to make that mislynch claim and such. I still think that it is worthwhile to examine things from the hypothetical that both, neither and one of them is scum, like I did with Peace and Cloud. If you disagree, whatever, this isn't the basis of my case anyway. If we lynch peace and he flips town, I promise I won't call for Cloud to be lynched based on this logic, mmkay?

 

I second your call for Krak to expand. What is your reasoning behind your vote on me Krak?

 

Sorry, thought you were a woman for some reason.

 

Peace: agree he isn't doing a good job with his rhetoric, is more attacking then clearing, which is a ping. I let him off the hook earlier, but maybe I should revisit that decision.

 

Cloud: is dynamic and transparent with his reasoning, for that alone I'd take him off the lynch table for today. But he's also making sense. His vote for Elf is based on reasoning I've used before... which is that timid scum likes to lead town to lynches but not start them. His "tunneling" on Elf comment you made is superfluous because he later comes to a resolution with Elf and unvotes her. THAT'S A TOWN ON TOWN INTERACTION. Srsly.

Nolder: has been a ghost, and I'm still waiting for him. If he doesn't get more involved, he's a decent scum candidate at this point solelyh for dodging my questions. 

 

I'll say that this post makes you look more involved in the game, but I dislike your conclusions on Cloud and how you seem to be tunneling him, since it's pretty obvious he and Elf came to resolution already. Dunno how you'd ignore that point if you were trying to give him a fair shake.

[Hallia]

this isn't debate club. 

 

 

This stuck out.  (Yes, I'm reading the thread backwards to catch up)

 

Er...yes, I agree with several other people, it's kind of the whole point.

[Tommyrod]

##Unvote Hoof 

I'll look elsewhere, this is enough to satiate me at the moment. Revisit Cloud as a favor to me.

[peacesells]

Theo. .I don't get your vote in goldeneyes. You state im clearly scum yet you are voting goldeneyes. I'm voting goldeneyes already. How does that make sense?

 

I like the vote but I don't like your method at all.