Rebirths

[Carnacarn]

All of this is minus Rand being the only foretold for sure rebirth of a specific soul, and the Forsaken being rebodied.

 

Hope of my salvation and rebirth is a strong oath and idea in the series. Each character wants to be reborn when the next turning of the age comes. It is also implied that souls are reborn, as in Birgitte and Gaidal, several times per age. This could just be specific to those two as in several times per Age, or it could happen to every Farmer Frank. Are all souls reborn just to the turning of their age, or of all ages? If those who lives in the Third Age are reborn again the fourth, do they think that they are only Fourth Agers? The Heroes are bound to the Horn when they are not reborn into the world. We know that many of the Heroes are not reborn at the start of the series due to the events at Falme confirming this. Could their reason for not being reborn be due to the need of the Dragon? If so, are they reborn soon after the events of AMoL? Could a new Hawkwing be born or is that rebirth not destined for greatness but the boring, dull life of a sheepherder? Just wondering what others thoughts were on rebirths.

[Sabio]

From the sounds of it only certain souls are reborn over and over and from the way Brigitte makes it sound there were time she was born to a normal life and mentioned to Mat she was miserable but most of her lives she seems to of been a warrior.  I think when she is just a soul waiting to be reborn she remembers all of her past lives but when she is born she has no memories of past lives.  The reason she had all of her memories was instead of being born this time she was forced into the age by Moghi.  How they could wander the dream world as they were waiting to be reborn, confuses me.  

[Suttree]

From the sounds of it only certain souls are reborn over and over...

 

Per RJ's cosmology everyone is reborn time and again:

 

Everybody fears death because the being that is reborn, while possessing the same soul, will not be the same person. The fear is simple. I will cease to exist. Someone else will exist, bearing my soul. But I will cease.

 

Even constructs:

 

Interview: Dec 9th, 2002

Wotmania and Dragonmount Q&A

Question

How does the idea of souls apply to constructs such as Nym and Trollocs? Could either of them be reborn?

Robert Jordan

To whoever put this one forward, this is one of the best questions I've ever gotten! Nym and Trollocs both have souls, and either could be reborn, but since Nym were a pure construct (i.e. each of them was individually made, like hand-crafting) a Nym would not be reborn as a Nym. You might say that a Nym's soul was borrowed temporarily from the supply of souls awaiting rebirth. A Trolloc, however, bears a twisted, or corrupted soul, and would be reborn as a Trolloc. Though frankly, a Trolloc's soul is such a pitiful thing, it hardly seems worth calling a soul.

 

 

As for Birgitte, that is correct. She has the memories because of the manner in which she was ripped out of Tar.

[mb]

All rebirths I guess can occur in any Age (and perhaps in any cycle); not just the one in which the original person occurs in.

The number of rebirths during any length of time I take has no limit except for the life spans of each incarnation; a soul cannot be "split".  Though there might be some time between the death of one incarnation and the birth of the next incarnation.

 

All incarnations of a soul I take have similar roles as those of the others.  abilities I guess would also be similar.

[The1stAge]

Like Suttree quoted above, there are some nice interview databases out there that are invaluable for questions like this.  For instance, from these sources we know that a soul can be reborn more than once per age.  Birgitte's soul is more likely to be reborn more often because she has a shorter life span compared to a channeler.  Furthermore, that souls have regular after lives.  

 

For Rand's soul, the answer to an interview question said that the heroes' souls spend time in tel'aran'rhiod between lives:

 

 

In the course of this answer, he related this to why Hawkwing calls Rand "Lews Therin" at Falme—because Hawkwing recognizes this soul. This didn't really tell me why he specifically calls him "Lews Therin", but apparently they've been hangin' together in Tel'aran'rhiod and the etiquette there is to call each other by the name of your last incarnation.

 

We also know that a soul can be reborn in other ages other than the same one with each turning of the Wheel.  RJ stated that if Rand's soul was reborn in another age that is not the 3rd Age, he does not necessarily have to be the Dragon Reborn.  If that makes sense.  

[Sabio]

So basically every time LTT soul is spun out doesn't necessarily mean he will be reborn as the dragon on day that time but he will be the dragon reborn but eventually.

[mb]

Gaidal Cain addressed Birgitte as Birgitte when she talked with Nynaeve in Shadow Rising; yet Towers of Midnight tells about an incarnation of her that occurred about a hundred years before the series (Jethari Moondancer).

I guess Jethari was more recent than Birgitte.

[The1stAge]

Gaidal Cain addressed Birgitte as Birgitte when she talked with Nynaeve in Shadow Rising; yet Towers of Midnight tells about an incarnation of her that occurred about a hundred years before the series (Jethari Moondancer).

I guess Jethari was more recent than Birgitte.

 

I poked around the interwebz to try and figure out when Jethari lived and the Buchaner Rebellion took place, but could only deduce it was during the 3rd Age during this turning of the Wheel (their story being popular around 900 NE in Caemlyn, though is since forgotten by 999 NE).  You're right, Gaidal definitely calls her Birgitte and not any of her other known names: Jethari, Maerion, etc.  So, yeaahhh, kind of renders that logic moot...

 

Maybe she just prefers the name Birgitte?  Or, compared to a channeler's lifespan who would be spun out less frequently, if the TAR peeps only referred to her by her most recent incarnation, they'd be changing her name all the time!  Kind of like changing your password every 60 days?  Sounds bloody annoying.  haha.