Quality Discussion Thread

[Vambram]

I believe that this was an GREAT Book and a truly epic ending. On a scale of 1 to 10, I rate AMOL a 9.5.

 

I loved it.

 

Maybe after a re-read or two, I might be bothered by some of the same stuff that the Sanderson's critics keep harping on and on and on and on, ad nasuem about. But to tell the truth, when I read a novel, I don't read it to find stuff I don't like. I read it for enjoyment and escape from reality. That's why I Love fantasy fiction so much. I don't read a series or a book so that afterward I can tell everyone how bad it was, or what could have been done better. I am not an author. Like probably 99% of the posters on Dragonmount and other WOT fan sites, I have never written and published a book.

 

I started reading the WOT waaaay back in 1990 shortly after EotW was published. I was 26 years old then. Now, almost 23 years later, I am very happy and pleased with TGS, TOM, and AMOL.

Are they perfect novels? No.

Are they as good as what James Oliver Rigney himself would have written? No way.

 

However, are TGS, TOM, and AMOL extremely satisfying, fantastic, and pleasing endings to the WOT series?

In my mind, the answer is undoubtedly and unequivocally: YES!!!

[Grr Aaargh]

Vambram, I think you're misunderstanding some of us a bit. When I read a novel, I read it for enjoyment and escape from reality, too. But if it's not well-written enough, I don't get to enjoy and escape and all that; I just get frustrated.

[papertiger]

Exactly! I love immersing myself in the world (anyone who has finished the WOT must), which is why the disconnect with Sanderson's material, while expected, was so disappointing. 

 

That being said, it applies to Jordan as well. I'll be d@mned if I'm going to read about that circus ever again.

 

I just wished that Jordan had focused on the Last Battle when he found out about his disease. Let someone else get the series to the end, then step in and finish the asssist.

[Elan Tedronai]

That leigh butler review ugh... talk about scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

 

I didnt think her TOM review would topped....

[MountainDancer]

The Quality of the book would have been much better if Team Jordan would have added one more single sentence, and then if so, the book's ending would have been much more satisfying.

 

... and the missing sentence from the final chapter is ... 

 

                                                                                       "Rand thought that he would visit the Tinkers first to teach them the song"

 

without this missing sentence, we really don't know if he ever teaches the song to any one!

 

and thus the overall quality is impacted

[papertiger]

Nice avatar, Elan Tedronai!

 

It would be hilarious if his soul escaped oblivion only to be trapped inside the body of a sultry brunette. Oh, the irony! Especially after he did the same to Balthamel, among others.

[papertiger]

The Tinkers got pretty short shrift but hey, they're used to it!

[Barid Bel Medar]

The Tinkers wouldn't understand even if Rand told them. The Song is not an actual song, but the Talent of Singing, like we see with the Aiel and the Ogier in Rand's tSR vision. 

 

Unless one of the Tinkers had the Voice, they wouldn't understand. Their view on the Song is so warped that they wouldn't know it. 

 

There is a quote somewhere from Brandon about it. 

[MountainDancer]

But the Tinkers are the ancient Aeil that used to do the Seed Singing shown in Rands vision in TSR.    If it is hereditary, then some of them should still have the ability.    And remember that LTT asked:    "Have you the Voice, stranger?    Here, all are welcome to join in the singing"

[Suttree]

Going through the ending again and came across this:

 

AMoL

He needed a word that gave the feel for the chaos, death, the cacophony, the sheer bravery.

What on earth would Thom need a word for? Just plug tempest in. ;p

[batcaver]

 

Going through the ending again and came across this:

 

AMoL

He needed a word that gave the feel for the chaos, death, the cacophony, the sheer bravery.

What on earth would Thom need a word for? Just plug tempest in. ;p

 

  "And suddenly it came to him...The word was 'tempest'"

 

He's gotta know he's doing it, right?  He's gotta be screwing with us...

 

It's either another bad joke or unbelievable sloppiness.

[SaBenBen]

If you ask me it was a great book. As others have said, whilst reading a book you shouldn't just look for the flaws, but try to enjoy it. And I did. BS was able to finish the series so well for someone who'd not build the world or any of the characters himself. I'll admit that his style is different from Jordan's (tempest), but I still think he was able to do a great ending. There were some faults here an there, but to flame him as a poor replacement is unfair, especially given the dull and unegaging nature of earlier books. Both authors had their flaws, and (obviously) the ending would have been better if written by the person who originally set the series in motion, but I think BS did a great job. Only issues were moiraine and bela :'(. Otherwise, good, solid ending.

[trivia]

I thought it was a good book. But it couldn't compare to the first six books in the series. The pacing of the battle was tense, which is apt. I have a few issues with regards to some of the language/words being used as some I would consider modern slang. Also the use of space/appearance in the book for some characters primarily Moirraine (which a lot of the readers have an issue about). All in all, I'm just glad it's over. As the book said, it was an ending.

[Trevor Wilson]

I tend to agree with FountOfThePower

 

I wouldnt diss Jordan either, his world got me into reading fantasy.

 

But im astonished people dont acknowledge that some of his last books (especially COT) were pretty boring where nothing seems to happen.

 

I agree the first six books were fantastic though.

[papertiger]

That's why someone needs to make an abridged version that cuts out all the gristle. No Black Ajah Hunters in the White Tower, no circus, no extended Faile captivity, quick death for Aram and Masema, better death for Fain/Sashama/whatever it was, an extended set of chapters on the transformation of the Black Tower.

 

If anyone out there wants to give me a million $, I promise to have it done in 5 years.

 

Again, imagine meeting Androl in Book 7. How awesome would that be?

[Matthew79]

 

Two of the most admired fantasy series at the moment, though this one just ended were meant to be trilogies. I don't see GRRM getting to 14 books, but probably 7 or 8.

Humans don't have the life span that would be needed for GRRM to write that many books.

[papertiger]

Is GRRM a touchy subject around here? I don't personally know any current WOT fans, so I'm not sure if there's a rivalry or anything?

 

 

GRRM is not going to write more than 8 books for that series. HBO has probably worked that into his contract. ASOIAF will be done by the end of the decade.

 

 

Considering how well the HBO series has been adapted, I'd actually be okay if GRRM just stepped to the side after composing a brief outline and let the showrunners finish it.

[papertiger]

Okay, so for anyone who has LOVED and SUFFERED through the course of the Wheel of Time (I started reading in '96), you MUST read this!!

 

http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-perils-and-pleasures-of-longrunning-fantasy-se,60769/

 

A lot of the discussions on these boards have, at their source, a consequence of the inherent dangers of a long-running series.

[TristanWebb]

Well, since the last book in ASOIAF took 5 years to come out, if he only writes 2 more books it will be the end of the decade already.

[papertiger]

Agreed, Cow.

 

I just wish RJ had been under the same restrictions as GRRM is now. Then we'd have a completed 8-10 book series, with The Battle of Falme having aired sometime last year on Showtime.

 

It still burns me that Tor let him go off the rails like that just for profit. It's not surprising, but I feel cheated.

[Trevor Wilson]

ASOIAF- At first i liked it, but to me...i just didnt care what happened to the characters he did leave alive?.

[papertiger]

It took a pretty girl at a bar in Long Beach to convince me that I should start another epic fantasy series. Heard the show was coming out so I decided to do what I've done for other films and read the book in order to gauge the adaptation, despite my misgivings.

 

Book 3, Storm of Swords, was fantastic; GRRM's merciless when it comes to characters and there is always a latent threat to any scene. That book honestly had 3 RJ books' worth of plot in the last 1/3 of the text alone! As a worn-out WOT fan, I just binged on it without restraint.

 

Book 4 brought me flashbacks of Crown of Swords, I think. You could feel the air seeping out of the series. I wasn't nearly as invested in the characters, but I believe GRRM's character arcs are far more ambitious than RJ's. I mean, Perrin barely just learned how to be comfortable with the wolf. In the 14th book.

 

Book 5 seemed to bring things back into focus, but I'm not worried like I was with the WOT because the show is so popular that I'm sure the story will end, one way or another, by the end of the decade. That certainty, more than anything else, has made me enjoy ASOIAF much more. There are even a few parts of it that struck me as deeply as my favorite scenes in WOT.

 

Also, I'm a fairly cynical person with a twisted sense of humor so GRRM fits my tone more cleanly.

[Trevor Wilson]

I get that characters are not 'safe' but surely if you kill off all the likeable ones, well...maybe its just me but with fantasy i just have to care what happens to the characters?

[papertiger]

Yeah, but many of those characters are facing situations that force them to change within the space of a book--which I always find interesting and which Jordan usually teased us with--and some of those changes aren't for the better. The best parallel I can think of off the top of my head was Rand desperately trying to be strong/hard but failing because he was ultimately a decent human being. This failure to be completely unsympathetic and inhuman shamed him, so he tried harder. Then a voice started speaking inside his head. A similar arc happens with a character who's far more intelligent and privileged than Rand but still wraps himself in the same trap, if for different reasons. I know that's obscure but I don't want to spoil things for anyone.

 

Also, ASOIAF seems to have a better handle on the noble families and their interactions than WOT. We never learn about Dobraine's son or Moiraine's sister or watch the Bashere family sit down and have a meal together. It's just a stray thing I happened to notice. What Jordan was able to do with nations, GRRM does with families, so there's a strange kind of intimacy and agency to his work.

 

Again, my enthusiasm for this group of characters might have something to do with the casting on the show, which is brilliant. Tywin Lannister, in the show, is better than any of the Forsaken, who always disappointed me (except for Demandred, but then he didn't have enough screen time to let me down later on).

[Atheose]

It took a pretty girl at a bar in Long Beach to convince me that I should start another epic fantasy series. Heard the show was coming out so I decided to do what I've done for other films and read the book in order to gauge the adaptation, despite my misgivings.

 

Book 3, Storm of Swords, was fantastic; GRRM's merciless when it comes to characters and there is always a latent threat to any scene. That book honestly had 3 RJ books' worth of plot in the last 1/3 of the text alone! As a worn-out WOT fan, I just binged on it without restraint.

 

Book 4 brought me flashbacks of Crown of Swords, I think. You could feel the air seeping out of the series. I wasn't nearly as invested in the characters, but I believe GRRM's character arcs are far more ambitious than RJ's. I mean, Perrin barely just learned how to be comfortable with the wolf. In the 14th book.

 

Book 5 seemed to bring things back into focus, but I'm not worried like I was with the WOT because the show is so popular that I'm sure the story will end, one way or another, by the end of the decade. That certainty, more than anything else, has made me enjoy ASOIAF much more. There are even a few parts of it that struck me as deeply as my favorite scenes in WOT.

 

Also, I'm a fairly cynical person with a twisted sense of humor so GRRM fits my tone more cleanly.

 

This is pretty much spot-on. Awesome first 3 books, then Feast for Crows is terrible and goes in a direction nobody cares about, then he starts getting back on track with Dance of Dragons. Thankfully having HBO catching up to him should light a fire under him to finish the last two books quickly.