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Grr Aaargh

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  1. @Edynol: I think it can get very hard to distinguish between things like "poor writing" and "plot". The plot simply falls apart if a scene is so poorly written that I cannot stay immersed in the fiction. In a way, you can count yourself very lucky that this book gave you no trouble, that you could simply accept the plot as it was presented to you. Yes, "the way it was written, Moiraine was most definitely the reason everything didn't fall apart" - but the way it was written contradicted so strongly with the way the previous 10-12 volumes were written (including TGS and ToM) that I cannot combi
  2. @Relentless Now that is pure speculation on your part, of course. We all had different expectations. For instance, I had been hoping that Moiraine would actually be the one to lead the circle at Shayol Ghul and re-imprison the DO. Using special knowledge from the Finns, of course. But if the book had provided me with a convincing alternative, I guess I could have settled for something less. Now, I'm just grumpy.
  3. @Celebel I love your argument about Moiraine's "letting go" in TFoH mirroring Rand's development here. Very convincing. I wish it had gone that way. Unlike most people, it seems, I didn't particularly like that scene with Tam. Last Battle or no Last Battle, the book did not need to be only and exclusively about people waving swords.
  4. Edynol, you are correct about the battles in Falme and Tear, but on pretty much all the other points, I think Celebel is quite right. I've written about this before, but I think the FOM debacle was not a particularly plausible scene. Although the setup of the conflict was clear in ToM, the dialogue between Rand and Egwene at Merrilor was childish, it ignored about 10 volumes' worth of character development, the characters' voices were not distinctively their own. Moiraine did not speak in her own voice in that scene either - she mainly stuck to quoting from the Prophecies. There were no re
  5. Vambram, I think you're misunderstanding some of us a bit. When I read a novel, I read it for enjoyment and escape from reality, too. But if it's not well-written enough, I don't get to enjoy and escape and all that; I just get frustrated.
  6. @orient True enough; I guess I'm just so dissatisfied with the lack of Moiraine in this book that I'm just grumpily trying to poke holes in everything, sorry! It's probably time for me to get over this book and get back to my life. @papertiger Yes, absolutely. AND we should have seen what Moiraine and Nynaeve were up to before Shayol Ghul, while Elayne and Lan and Egwene were busy chopping lots of Trollocs into little pieces. One well-written scene with my two favorite female characters would have gone a long way to make up for all the bad writing elsewhere, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the
  7. Yes, why didn't Siuan notice - and how/why were Bryne's dreams not warded? Moiraine made a point of saying that the dreams of Aes Sedai and Warders are always protected back in TDR, when Perrin asked her for help. Or was that an "early-bookism"?
  8. @orient I don't have the book on me right now, but was Moiraine even able to use that convenient angreal of hers at Shayol Ghul? I remember Cadsuane made Nynaeve take hers off at the Cleansing because she couldn't use it and the Choedan Kal simultaneously.
  9. @Mr Micawber I think you misunderstood me! I agree with you - her review is surprisingly, um, let's call it positive. I say surprisingly, because I read her re-read over Christmas and I loved it. And then I read her review, and I got excited about the book. Now, I'm disappointed, both in her judgement, and in the book.
  10. @papertiger: Yes, and I think all of this has more to do with storytelling skills than plotting. I doubt we'd be so thoroughly frustrated if we'd had a PoV from Moiraine during the confrontation with the DO. After all, seen from the outside, Rand was also just standing around :) @hack n slash & other cheerleaders: You do realize that this is the thread for quality, right? It's where people discuss whether the book was any good, and why. That is the purpose of the whole thing. I agree that it's not all BS's fault; I've worked as an editor before (only non-fiction though), and I definitely
  11. I think Mark D is making an excellent point with Moiraine's purpose, her wishes, and Verin's letters. But this is a typical example of how plot and execution are connected. I have seen some people here argue that Moiraine's purpose was to make peace between Rand and Egwene. There are a couple of problems with that argument, though. First, although the setup of the conflict was clear in ToM, I had trouble with the dialogue between them at Merrilor. It was childish, it ignored about 10 volumes' worth of character development, the characters' voices were not distinctively their own: it fell f
  12. @Rhienne, I really agree with your analysis, here and in other threads. This, in particular: "Lack of interaction between the main characters. This was my biggest disappointment, even now having finished it a few days ago I feel sad about this. All of these characters which we have followed for years, and who have had wonderful evolving friendships and relationships and there is hardly any meaningful interaction between any of them." In fact, this lack of interaction is what is keeping me online now, trying to get a sense of closure from DM that I couldn't from the final book itself :)
  13. "How many POVs does Lan have? Sure Moiraine could have been mentioned at least once... The way it was written it just felt like she didn't even exist." This. Of course, we never got to peek into Lan's head with RJ in the main series, so BS had plenty of freedom to create Lan's PoV, but I found the final result unconvincing. I think we can assume that the three main issues that dominated Lan's worldview and mental state as of KoD were: Malkier/fighting the DO, Moiraine/the broken bond, and Nynaeve. It seems absurd to me that the character would not reflect at all on the fact that 1.) Mo
  14. @Terez, very true! And I guess this distance within Shienar is relatively short. Maybe it bothered me so much because I'd spent some time trying to imagine how Lan's rescue would go, and just Traveling to exactly the right place at exactly the right time, without sending scouts first or making contact or anything, seemed a bit too simple. And these gateways are so large, it's easy to picture them opening up right in the middle of Lan's army and cutting a long row of soldiers in half. Oh, well... (P.S. I couldn't make the quote function work, sorry about that!)
  15. This is not necessarily an error, but I found it thoroughly frustrating when the reinforcements from Merrilor arrived at Tarwin's Gap. Remember when Nynaeve and Elayne and Mat Traveled to a place waaay outside of Ebou Dar because they didn't want to accidentally kill anyone? So how did the people coming to help Lan know where to place those gateways?
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