[Advanced] X-Men: Rise of Apocalypse - GAME OVER

[csarmi]

What's this 0/10 reference? Seen it twice already.

[Darthe]

Okay, I admittedly tend to see Nol as scummy and len as town. Happening to disagree strongly with one and agree with the other could create bias. Thus lets review that Len case and see if it has merit.

[Darthe]

 

 

 

Your imagination is failing you then. I thought of one in 5 seconds.

 

How about if Verbal has one Overriding Governor shot for each Horseman?

That's pretty OP and would be unfun since voting/lynching is so fundamental to the game for town.

It's the only power they are ever guaranteed so to mess with it that heavy is just lame.

 

I think people get confused about bastard games. When it's unintentional what we mean is the game was unbalanced in some way or the mod involved themselves where they shouldn't like giving a player advice on who to target. When a game is described as "bastard" from the get go it's not meant to be some murder fun house where the mod just mindf***s everyone for their pleasure like a Saw movie. It means they twisted some facets of the game that are usually taken for granted. A 100% true role PM for example (ie a cop can't trust their sanity even if the mod tells them they are sane). The game is still winnable for both sides and should be more or less fair. You and others are putting way too much stock into what Verbal said about "dire consequences". Even if he wasn't lying the effect should be minimal.

You have no idea what you're talking about. I've played in one of Verbal's bastard games. It was like a Saw movie except Verbal kept bringing us back from the dead to torture us and kill us again.

I've played in one too and that was not my experience.

 

Ok not going to be here tonight or for deadline, ala the other game, you know the score. I really, really cannot state how much I don't want to vote Verbal.

 

My thought is:

 

He can be voted

He is goading us to vote

He has said there will be dire consequences for said vote.

 

Bastard Mod is not equal to 100% liar Mod. He could be lying about lying and all the little Russian dolls you want to throw down that rabbit hole.

 

We don't know.

 

As it stands, lynching Verbal will make SOMETHING happen, that is more than likely anti-town.

If we lynch a player, it gives us more time to find Gold and put together some clues, and as a bonus we might just lynch mafia.

Continuing advocating a somewhat blind lynch on the Bastard Mod on D1?

 

Not a fan.

 

 

 

VOTE NOLDER

 

I did like you early on, but the assurance you seem to be pushing this with troubles me, along with the fact that it's a pro-town move to avoid an anti-town trap.

 

Will check in closer to deadline to see whatup. I won't vote Verbal though. I think a random lynch would be better, quite honestly.

Blah blah blah my teammates told me to make something up and vote you.

Mission accomplished.

 

Caught up.

 

Unvote, Vote Nolder

 

Obvious scum in my eyes. Has kept town distracted with this talk about lynching Verbal, and keeps slipping in little blurbs about the setup.

Slipping in little blurbs?

I've been saying all along I don't really care.

The only time I've engaged in speculation was when conversation called for it due to what other people have been saying.

 

 

Plus I don't like how he keeps trying to have it both ways, discouraging others from doing activities he himself is doing (distracting town).

I think it's more like OMGODSHUTUP.

 

But I can see how you'd think the two are the same.

 

What does the OD stand for?

 

The GOD in it is like the GNU abbreviation.

 

You've lost me

 

OMGOD = OMGod

 

The G stands for god already though.

 

Forget it we're just derailing the discussion at this point now.

Let's get back to voting people.

Look at me, taking my own advice and dropping a pointless discussion to get back on topic.

But, you know, I'm derailing and trying to distract town. Ok.

 

As for Verbal, that is an issue best left for another day imo. It seems to me that it still might be best to lynch him last among the mafia, if he even needs to be lynched. We could end up trying to lynch him just to find out he can't be lynched or something, and just made that an option cause he's a bastard. Either way day 1 is the WORST time to try such a maneuver, when it is invaluable for town to get the right start on the game by collecting as much info as possible. A Verbal lynch doesn't help with that at all.

A no lynch on Day 1 is not really that terrible of an outcome.

Keep fear mongering though.

 

 

 

Des I applaud your attempt at trying to focus the game into more serious discussion but your assessment on me is pretty off.

If I cared about figuring Verbal's puzzles I'd be afraid to lynch him because "something bad might happen". Instead, I don't care.

As a person in his position he by definition cannot be town. He knows everyone's roles. He is scum/third party aligned.

I wasn't trying to create some big debate about whether we should lynch him or not I was trying to get someone else to vote him first to see if he would even count the vote while also commenting on the fact that even if "something bad" did happen town is in it's best position to weather it on day 1.

No, you care about the puzzle BECAUSE you're trying to lynch him. If you didn't care about it, you'd be focused on actual scumhunting.

Who says I'm not scumhunting?

Look at the reactions I've gotten.

Lenlo is pretty much dead already and in all honesty I think I could peg the rest of the mafia right now out of a list of maybe 5 or 6. Of course that's all thrown out of whack if someone who hasn't posted much is mafia like Nyn but I'm still pretty confident in my reads.

 

 

Yeah no that is completely wrong. You should never leave a self aligned role alive because at the first opportunity they can and will stab you in the back to win. You are as scummy as they come. After Verbal hangs you're next up for the noose as far as I'm concerned.

 

As for your main argument. You are failing to take into account that this is a self professed bastard game.

The mod is lying to us. IF there is a time he is telling us the truth it is in our role PMs (maybe) and when he types in gold (maybe).

If you take his word for anything you are leaving an awful lot to chance.

Underlined: fail attempt at setting up of lynches and leading town.

As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned. As far as I'm concerned.

 

Calling my shot is a scum trait? Ok dude. Keep your vote where it is and then tell me how it worked out for you.

 

 

For the record I am against a Lenlo lynch today on the grounds that he's protecting Verbal.

If you think he's protecting Verbal then you'll be playing into his hand by not lynching Verbal.

I think he's better saved as the favorite for tomorrows lynch.

Moar setting up of lynches

Except that it's the same lynch but ok.

Before I get too far back I am quoting this. It warrants note.

[Darthe]

Reasoning:

 

His first statement is fine, different experiences blah blah blah.

 

The way he singled out and ignored Berf wasn't. Berf echoed the same points many of us have made. Since we can't all be scum this is blatant brushing off of something he didn't want to defend against.

 

Third statement is my favorite. Nol practically started and most heavily advocated this whole discussion and he directly lies about it to Des. Without him this entire rigamarole wouldn't have even come about.

 

Then aftee a series of quotes he is majorly passive aggeessive. Notably, dropping something to defend yourself is different from dropping something to help town.

 

I don't disagree that he has reactions. I also don't think that his death wouod be a disservice to validate his very strong opinions though.

 

As for the next two points he isn't off imo. Nol is going to be such a wild card this game. Now lets look at Len.

[Nolder]

No chance for a Verbal lynch huh?

Mistake IMO but w/e, I can't force you guys to lynch him.

1 person 1 vote and all that.

 

Unvote

Vote Lenlo

[Darthe]

 

 

6) His lynch provides no information that helps the town.

I disagree with this point completely.

 

This is what Nolder, me and csarmi (who seems to have retracted it now) have been telling. There is a pattern within all these and there would definitely be some information that we can glean by lynching him. It cannot be a random set of events which will happen and I don't think it will be completely against the town making the game unbalanced. The whole point is not to leave it late to be able to not do anything,

Quick point, this is assimptive reasoning. Thus...--> No.

[Nolder]

 

People are voting Nolder mainly because he was trying to lynch verbal.

 

Now, you either believer his claim or not

I, personally, am fine with his claim and he has seemed town to me. If he is indeed town and PR, then there has been a deliberate misdirection from scum from voting verbal - Lenlo, Darthe, Des - are some of the names that pop into the mind.

 

Given that there are only two options now, I think it is pretty clear

 

vote Lenlo

Terrible logic in the first section. Why does Nolder being town mean that scum are necessarily misdirecting away from Verbal?

 

Personally I thought it was extremely obvious some people (Lenlo being the most obvious) have been playing D for Verbal since it was first suggested we lynch him.

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

Your imagination is failing you then. I thought of one in 5 seconds.

 

How about if Verbal has one Overriding Governor shot for each Horseman?

That's pretty OP and would be unfun since voting/lynching is so fundamental to the game for town.

It's the only power they are ever guaranteed so to mess with it that heavy is just lame.

 

I think people get confused about bastard games. When it's unintentional what we mean is the game was unbalanced in some way or the mod involved themselves where they shouldn't like giving a player advice on who to target. When a game is described as "bastard" from the get go it's not meant to be some murder fun house where the mod just mindf***s everyone for their pleasure like a Saw movie. It means they twisted some facets of the game that are usually taken for granted. A 100% true role PM for example (ie a cop can't trust their sanity even if the mod tells them they are sane). The game is still winnable for both sides and should be more or less fair. You and others are putting way too much stock into what Verbal said about "dire consequences". Even if he wasn't lying the effect should be minimal.

Personally I think your underestimating his evil. I dont think we should lynch him D1 because I dont want to test anything, but if everyone else wants to go ahead. It will be interesting to see just how much he was telling the truth anyways.

Did not like this post at all. Too much waffle

[Nolder]

Third statement is my favorite. Nol practically started and most heavily advocated this whole discussion and he directly lies about it to Des. Without him this entire rigamarole wouldn't have even come about.

Wait what? Wanna explain that?

What have I lied about?

[Darthe]

 

 

 

People are voting Nolder mainly because he was trying to lynch verbal.

 

Now, you either believer his claim or not

I, personally, am fine with his claim and he has seemed town to me. If he is indeed town and PR, then there has been a deliberate misdirection from scum from voting verbal - Lenlo, Darthe, Des - are some of the names that pop into the mind.

 

Given that there are only two options now, I think it is pretty clear

 

vote Lenlo

Terrible logic in the first section. Why does Nolder being town mean that scum are necessarily misdirecting away from Verbal?

Personally I thought it was extremely obvious some people (Lenlo being the most obvious) have been playing D for Verbal since it was first suggested we lynch him.

How does this fit with you dropping the point and how do you know the effects of a verb lynch? The selective logic you use to your advantage is what's killing you, not that the way people trued to set up a counter train on you has helped.

 

Seriously where is the logic in "this train is too fast lets create another and kill him quicker"?

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We also know Verbal is WIFOMing about the utility of his lynch. Personally, I think it would help the mafia. Apocalypse is a tough mofo, Verb seems to be goading us into lynching him in his rules, and I doubt he would have made his bastard setup easily breakable by a D1 modlynch.

You said it in a much shorter and better way than me.

 

 

We also know Verbal is WIFOMing about the utility of his lynch. Personally, I think it would help the mafia. Apocalypse is a tough mofo, Verb seems to be goading us into lynching him in his rules, and I doubt he would have made his bastard setup easily breakable by a D1 modlynch.

I'm not expecting to break the game. I think it will have no effect besides maybe -1 mafia.

Or if it does it'll be an effect which puts the game more into balance not less.

Then you are senile or naive.

 

Think about it. If a player is doing everything they can, goading you and poking at you and generally being scummy on purpose do you lynch them or do you go against what they want and not lynch them? What would you automatically think if a player did that? Jester? Its probably not a good idea to give Verbal what he wants this early in the game.

And now he thinks Verb is jestering us? That's a reach.

 

 

Nonononono, you misunderstood. I was using the jester as an example of a player role that wants you to lynch them and it helping them. Im not saying Verb is a jester only that lynching him right now will most likely not help us.

 

Ishy, Verbal's "Role PM" says right in it that he doesn't count for numbers. Stop obfuscating.

Meh, I only read it once, the first day. Didn't remember that. Let's just kill Len then.

D: </3

You're too jokey. If Lily wasn't basically on Nols side unconditionally (really not how I wanna say that) and breakinf all logic to remain there it would probably be your death.

[Leelou]

Vote Count

Nolder (7) - Darthe, Mish, Berf, Des, Tina, Dap, Wombat

Lenlo (6) - RTE, Ishy, Krak, Lily, Salami, Nol

Verbal (1) - Pralaya
Salami (1) - Nyn

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. 

[Leelou]

39 Minutes

[Nolder]

 

 

 

People are voting Nolder mainly because he was trying to lynch verbal.

 

Now, you either believer his claim or not

I, personally, am fine with his claim and he has seemed town to me. If he is indeed town and PR, then there has been a deliberate misdirection from scum from voting verbal - Lenlo, Darthe, Des - are some of the names that pop into the mind.

 

Given that there are only two options now, I think it is pretty clear

 

vote Lenlo

Terrible logic in the first section. Why does Nolder being town mean that scum are necessarily misdirecting away from Verbal?

Personally I thought it was extremely obvious some people (Lenlo being the most obvious) have been playing D for Verbal since it was first suggested we lynch him.

How does this fit with you dropping the point and how do you know the effects of a verb lynch? The selective logic you use to your advantage is what's killing you, not that the way people trued to set up a counter train on you has helped.

 

Seriously where is the logic in "this train is too fast lets create another and kill him quicker"?

 

What are you talking about?

What point? And I never suggested I knew any effects of lynching Verbal everything I've said has been speculation just like everyone else.

 

I never said anything about trains wtf?

You're speaking gibberish dude.

[LilyElizabeth]

I'll hammer Nol if somebody else switches. I still think Lenlo is a better choice, though.

[Darthe]

 

 

Third statement is my favorite. Nol practically started and most heavily advocated this whole discussion and he directly lies about it to Des. Without him this entire rigamarole wouldn't have even come about.

Wait what? Wanna explain that?

What have I lied about?

"Slipping in little blurbs?I've been saying all along I don't really care.The only time I've engaged in speculation was when conversation called for it due to what other people have been saying."

 

If you didn't care you wouldn't be constantly pushing it. Constantly. Youre using Verb as a scapegoat to push other lynches (you can't use an unknown variable in yourlogic and remain true to logic) and you yourselg call it speculation yet yiure willing to kill people on it. Exllain how that is a townie move? Uou chkse a side and advocated it but now its biting you in ths ass and you are making every possible attempt to wiggle out of it.

[csarmi]

I'm ready to hammer either.

[LilyElizabeth]

My internet is acting wonky. I'd better switch now. 

 

Unvote

Vote Nolder

[Darthe]

 

 

Heeeey. Leave our poor little mod alone. Meanie heads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I have a vote. I'm more popular than you.

SILENCE, MINION!!!!!!!!

 

 

Oh wait, can you go grab me a medium coffee? Just Splenda. Thanks!! Oh and a strudel! What a dear minion.....

 

Who the f@$% likes Splenda?

 

He said there'll be a pattern to the madness. So it's worth asking him questions. Eventually, we might even find out how the game works. Probably after dying...

And let's face it, he's hardly the sharpest hairbrush in his daughter's Barbie play set. He's bound to slip up sooner or later.

Can I modkill you yet?

When were you not allowed to modkill someone? Just scream 'ima bastard' and everyone will understand.

The first line of this quote struck me as weird the first time I read it. I don't like it any more now than I did then.

 

 

3. Lenlo - "Don't pick on the mod." was the only post I can remember/notice, mixed feels on this one. I don't think I've played with you before? Seems a throwaway line but hmm.

 

Im sure we have at some point.

Des I applaud your attempt at trying to focus the game into more serious discussion but your assessment on me is pretty off.

If I cared about figuring Verbal's puzzles I'd be afraid to lynch him because "something bad might happen". Instead, I don't care.

As a person in his position he by definition cannot be town. He knows everyone's roles. He is scum/third party aligned.

I wasn't trying to create some big debate about whether we should lynch him or not I was trying to get someone else to vote him first to see if he would even count the vote while also commenting on the fact that even if "something bad" did happen town is in it's best position to weather it on day 1.

But the one crucial mistake your making here is this: You think he has to have an alignment at all. For all we know his alignment could be MOD, the thing holding the fabric of this game together or some random crap. He doesnt have to be playing for any team or playing against any team.

 

Now your right about us being in the best position to weather the bad thing on D1, but if we can avoid a bad thing at all shouldnt we? Why choose to take a bad thing just for the sake of testing something when we can find scum, get rid of all of them and if the game isnt over *then* try and lynch Verb when we have nothing else to worry about.

Still arguing against lynching Verb. Getting more heated.

 

 

We also know Verbal is WIFOMing about the utility of his lynch. Personally, I think it would help the mafia. Apocalypse is a tough mofo, Verb seems to be goading us into lynching him in his rules, and I doubt he would have made his bastard setup easily breakable by a D1 modlynch.

You said it in a much shorter and better way than me.

 

 

We also know Verbal is WIFOMing about the utility of his lynch. Personally, I think it would help the mafia. Apocalypse is a tough mofo, Verb seems to be goading us into lynching him in his rules, and I doubt he would have made his bastard setup easily breakable by a D1 modlynch.

I'm not expecting to break the game. I think it will have no effect besides maybe -1 mafia.

Or if it does it'll be an effect which puts the game more into balance not less.

Then you are senile or naive.

 

Think about it. If a player is doing everything they can, goading you and poking at you and generally being scummy on purpose do you lynch them or do you go against what they want and not lynch them? What would you automatically think if a player did that? Jester? Its probably not a good idea to give Verbal what he wants this early in the game.

And now he thinks Verb is jestering us? That's a reach.

 

 

I'm not feeling really good about Lenlo and am willing to vote there. Darthe is pinging, but I always think he is scummy, so I'll most likely move my vote in a little bit, especially since nobody else likes Darthe for a lynch.

 

 

I don't see Nol's behavior as scummy, and Mish is acting like normal day one Mish. I'm okay with the two of them.

Defibitely not moving my vote. This "case" sucks.

[csarmi]

I don't like Lenlo's disappearance.

[Darthe]

Btw Lily just put Nol at L-1. That was not a hammer. Badly scummy.

[csarmi]

She didn't say it was a hammer tho.

 

Shall I?

[Nolder]

 

 

Third statement is my favorite. Nol practically started and most heavily advocated this whole discussion and he directly lies about it to Des. Without him this entire rigamarole wouldn't have even come about.

Wait what? Wanna explain that?

What have I lied about?

"Slipping in little blurbs?I've been saying all along I don't really care.The only time I've engaged in speculation was when conversation called for it due to what other people have been saying."

 

If you didn't care you wouldn't be constantly pushing it. Constantly. Youre using Verb as a scapegoat to push other lynches (you can't use an unknown variable in yourlogic and remain true to logic) and you yourselg call it speculation yet yiure willing to kill people on it. Exllain how that is a townie move? Uou chkse a side and advocated it but now its biting you in ths ass and you are making every possible attempt to wiggle out of it.

 

I don't care about figuring out some "puzzle". That doesn't mean I don't want to win.

You can interpret winning as "figuring out the puzzle" if you like but regardless I never lied about anything.

 

As for using Verbal to push other lynches.

Uh, no, that is completely wrong. The only other lynch I suggested was Lenlo and that was based on Lenlo's actions not Verbal's.

[csarmi]

I'll be back in 10 mins.

[Nolder]

I don't like Lily trying to push my lynch so quickly.

It went from her being willing to hammer to putting me at L-1.

IDK maybe it's because I'm in the hot seat but it seems like there is a rush to shut me up all of a sudden.