Greek Mythology: Man Vs. Gods [Advanced] - GAME OVER - TOWN WINS!

Ithillian Turambar · September 5, 2013

Ithi is still not Mafia and Darthe will say that he knew that all the time and it was just a cunning plan to stop me getting deaded.

_CLOUD · September 5, 2013

Just wow. Do I misinterpret what you're saying here?

So you'd keep lynching titans and if none of them was scum you would learn that Dice was telling the truth? Or how?

Wow hold on for a moment. I never said that we should keep lynching Titans just to prove that Dice isn't lying. Lynching one, and the checking at the end of the game if there are 3 left will be more than enough proof imo.

Care to explain your notion? Because I don't get it.

Well it would proof that there are 4 Titans in the game who are town.

... and you'll know it by the end of the game?

I would know this once every Titan has revealed itself. It would only be a matter of time.

_CLOUD · September 5, 2013

Just wow. Do I misinterpret what you're saying here?

So you'd keep lynching titans and if none of them was scum you would learn that Dice was telling the truth? Or how?

Wow hold on for a moment. I never said that we should keep lynching Titans just to prove that Dice isn't lying. Lynching one, and the checking at the end of the game if there are 3 left will be more than enough proof imo.

Care to explain your notion? Because I don't get it.

Well it would proof that there are 4 Titans in the game who are town.

Afraid not. It would only prove that town can kill a titan at the cost of a day phase. After all, alignments and roles are not correlative. Believing Dice depends on Dice entirely, thus the only available proof comes in killing him or testing his word by some other means (ie: noting that all mafia we kill happen to be Gods would do the trick and is my plan).

Yeah your gameplan is better than mine :P

csarmi · September 5, 2013

CSarmi and Cloud now seem to be doing some choreographed damage control.

MCS probably was mafia and left because of it. He only recently said that he hates being Mafia and isn't that good at it. Not my opinion mind - just something he said.

Yea right.

Now I don't know MCS at all, but I think I seen him asking to get replaced in another game as well.

Not sure what damage control are you talking about, my predecessor had zero game related posts by page 16. Except for that little bit that was quoted here. Which he never followed up on. You wanna draw conclusions of that, be my guest.

_CLOUD · September 5, 2013

This is probably the most game changing Day 1 I have ever played in...

csarmi · September 5, 2013

Cloud: also, as far as I understand, Dice claimed he could only ask for pre-game info. Info that was available before assigning players. So you can't just ask the mod how many titans are left in the game and such.

csarmi · September 5, 2013

I like this D1, actually. So much play. I'm at page 12 already, btw :)

Darthe · September 5, 2013

Ithi is still not Mafia and Darthe will say that he knew that all the time and it was just a cunning plan to stop me getting deaded.

If you're town Darthe will have a sad.

Thorum · September 5, 2013

On my tablet, so replying to one post at a time

Let's quantify your statement. Say that your bold statement means that you think there's at least 80% chance of "at least one of them being maffia".

True

Which practically means (and mathematically speaking too!) that once one of them flips town, the chance of the other one being maffia jumps to 80%.

Nope, it doesn't. Have you even read the dice-example? I cannot dumb it down more than that.

Thorum · September 5, 2013

Salami and mcs making contradictory statements. Important to note, I think.

Salami, if you're town, you'd better not claimed race.

csarmi · September 5, 2013

On my tablet, so replying to one post at a time

Let's quantify your statement. Say that your bold statement means that you think there's at least 80% chance of "at least one of them being maffia".

True

Which practically means (and mathematically speaking too!) that once one of them flips town, the chance of the other one being maffia jumps to 80%.

Nope, it doesn't. Have you even read the dice-example? I cannot dumb it down more than that.

I think we should leave it at this. You're wrong mathematically and you're wrong in common speak too.

I don't want to speak mathematics as it just scares people away all the time, but you're dumbing it down for me is a funny idea :)

Thorum · September 5, 2013

Let's imagine the chance of player A being mafia at 50%, the chance of player B being mafia at 50%.

The chance at least one of them is mafia is 75%.

Player A dies, and turns out not to be mafia.

What is the chance of player B being mafia? (in a hypothetical game with an infinite number of players)

WWWwombat · September 5, 2013

Lots to catch up on. Catching up now. So far I can tell you that Cloud and Despo are extremely scummy and you shouldn't do anything they say.

AND STOP THE GODFDAMN REVEALS

Thorum · September 5, 2013

Point out my mathematical error. Go as mathematical as you want.

WWWwombat · September 5, 2013

IMPORTANT DO NOT SKIM!!!!!!

Those of you who know me in the Band know im a Fighter not a Lover. Well in this game i AM a Lover. One who I think has been betrayed.

I am also an Oracle. I am allowed to ask the Mod questions about the setup but can only get up to 2 words in answer. It also has to be info he would have known before characters were filled.

So far I know that there are 4 mafia team members. That team is ALL gods. I also asked if the major gods were the mafia. They are.

There is also no recruiting.

There are 4 Titans. They are all TOWN.

there is 1 third party

there is 1 vig

there is no SK

There IS a Godfather

the only teams in the game are Town, Mafia and the Lovers.

Now as for why i am coming forward When I asked was my lover town i was given PAFO. When i questioned it the response leads me to believe my Lover is 3rd party at best mafia at worst. And no the mod did not say anything definite. However he claimed in the QT to be the Town Coroner. I dont believe that as I cannot see a coroner being third party.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Coroner

SO do I

a) keep my lovers identity to myself

b) tell his identity.

Other option I tell but we dont kill which might neutralize my lover.

Also my Lover knew most of this answers as i shared them. Thus Mafia may already know

Thoughts and reasons please

This claim was premature imo. Firstly, if you are an Oracle with unlimited questions, then obviously RTE isn't going to give you answers about peoples' alignments, especially your Lover. If RTER wanted you to be sure of your Lover's alignment, he would have made you Masons. The PAFO means nothing other than that RTE is not a complete dolt.

I find your role to be extremely OP, but I'd rather leave you alive for now.

AND DO NOT OUT YOUR LOVER.

Holy bazonkas that's a lot to process. I have to believe the claim cause I don't think there's any way you could have come up with that much stuff as a lie. It is incredible however, that RTE put a role so OP in the game. Whelp, this should be pretty easy.

I say you should out your partner/Lover. It's already pretty common to see mixed couple a lot as Lovers, and you getting a PAFO to that question when so many other questions were answered is pretty iffy to say the least. And even though we'll prob lose you, you've already given us so much we'll have gotten great use out of your role either way.

I'm also kinda surprised to find out that the Titans in this game are town. Since we know how many there are, I say they come forward and reveal themselves. We'll either get 4 confirmed townies off the bat, or else one or more of the mafia will try and cc and slip in and we will have good leads on other scum.

Was also nice to see myself vindicated bout the mafia=gods thing

Scummy as balls. You know exactly why RTE would PAFO that question.

Also, you're still Prometheus hunting. Seeing as Prometheus was the one who STOLE FIRE FROM THE GODS AND GAVE IT TO MANKIND, I would rather we don't out him.

WWWwombat · September 5, 2013

unvote

csarmi · September 5, 2013

Actually my maths is wrong too. Whatever. Shouldn't try to think after day's work.

WWWwombat · September 5, 2013

Dice, that's an awful lot of info you have been given. I'm finding it suspicious that an oracle would be allowed that many questions just during the first phase. How many questions are you allowed to ask?

And I am a titan. I feel I can reveal that, since others have said they are god/men/whatever without saying their characters, and have not gotten mod-wrathed.

/facepalm

PLEASE STOP HELPING THE MAFIA FIND POSSIBLE CONFIRMED TOWNIES AND POWER ROLES KTHX

@Dice:

1) I don't understand why you believe your lover to be anti-town.

The response to whether your pair is town is an automatic PAFO, I'd say.

The Coroner role (if true) sounds like town.

2) I don't understand how your oracle role works. How many questions can you ask?

3) Why don't you ask the mod (as Oracle) whether there's a town-town lover pair in the game?

QFT

Holy bazonkas that's a lot to process. I have to believe the claim cause I don't think there's any way you could have come up with that much stuff as a lie. It is incredible however, that RTE put a role so OP in the game. Whelp, this should be pretty easy.

I say you should out your partner/Lover. It's already pretty common to see mixed couple a lot as Lovers, and you getting a PAFO to that question when so many other questions were answered is pretty iffy to say the least. And even though we'll prob lose you, you've already given us so much we'll have gotten great use out of your role either way.

I'm also kinda surprised to find out that the Titans in this game are town. Since we know how many there are, I say they come forward and reveal themselves. We'll either get 4 confirmed townies off the bat, or else one or more of the mafia will try and cc and slip in and we will have good leads on other scum.

Was also nice to see myself vindicated bout the mafia=gods thing

This pings.

1) Yea I'm sure the mod didn't think about that.

2) Asking people to reveal information for the maffia? Seriously?

QFT

Dice, just tell us who it is. Easiest way to vet your info and potentially bag a scum as well. CSarlami pinging hardcore for trying to defend Lover before they are outed

This guy is scum.

Actually, why would we want to lynch either?

Hmm you are right. It wouldn't matter if we lynched Dice or his Lover.

I just came up with a better idea though. We can verify Dice with the help of his info, and ask the Doc to protect him at Night. He should then keep quiet about who his Lover is so that he won't be able to get killed.

Sounds like a great way to let a mafia Watcher find out who the doc is. FoS

WWWwombat · September 5, 2013

There are 3 ways to verify this info

1- Lynch Dice and look for the Town flip/Role

2- Accidently lynch his unnamed Lover

3- Cop View

I don't think we should lynch Dice as I'm not reading scum from him, and potentially we could be taking out two Town.

Lynching his Lover - at THIS stage with the info at hand... *shrug* I'm still deciding what info we do/don't want this person out in the open.

Cop View then is likely best bet?

If Dice is town, and his lover is NOT MAFIA, very high chance Dice is dead tonight along with mystery lover.

If Dice is town, and his lover IS Mafia, Dice will survive, and we will potentially have a mafia in the hand.

Important to Note - Dice surviving the night is not indicative 100% of a Mafia lover. But basically the mafia can't move against him if it is true.

Therefore - A cop view becomes the best choice. If he is playing with Mafia Lover then he WILL survive, and a cop view clears the Oracle stuff for us.

Cop view is a terrible idea. Never telegraph cop views to the mafia. They usually have a way of messing things up royally if you do that.

Ithillian Turambar · September 5, 2013

It's only overpowered if Dice's Lover is also Town.

If RTE gives the answers to the questions that Dice asks in the Lovers' QT then the Mafia are being given the exact same info as Town. If anything that would give the Mafia a greater advantage as they would automatically be able to share - whereas a Town person would have to reveal their Role to be able to share.

This all supposes that Dice really is a Lover and Town and is not just trying the biggest scam in the world. I shall applaud him if he is because it would be brilliant. But Dice is one of life's natural mafia lurkers. I don't think he would have put himself out there unless he really really had to.

WWWwombat · September 5, 2013

@Thorum:

Asking all the titans to come forward will only benefit the mafia because they will only start killing off all the confirmed townies. The only good way to deal with this is for them te keep quiet and only reveal if they absolutely have to. And what do you mean with two confirmed townies? Keeping an Oracle alive with the help of the Doc is more benefitial than just killing him. I don't think that Nolder and RTE would have made this game unbalanced, and so the mafia team must have a lot of tricks up their sleeves too.

@Ithi:

We could lynch a Titan to prove that Dice isn't lying about his info (I'm starting to believe him anyway but it's good to verify him).

There are 3 ways to verify this info

1- Lynch Dice and look for the Town flip/Role

2- Accidently lynch his unnamed Lover

3- Cop View

I don't think we should lynch Dice as I'm not reading scum from him, and potentially we could be taking out two Town.

Lynching his Lover - at THIS stage with the info at hand... *shrug* I'm still deciding what info we do/don't want this person out in the open.

Cop View then is likely best bet?

If Dice is town, and his lover is NOT MAFIA, very high chance Dice is dead tonight along with mystery lover.

If Dice is town, and his lover IS Mafia, Dice will survive, and we will potentially have a mafia in the hand.

Important to Note - Dice surviving the night is not indicative 100% of a Mafia lover. But basically the mafia can't move against him if it is true.

Therefore - A cop view becomes the best choice. If he is playing with Mafia Lover then he WILL survive, and a cop view clears the Oracle stuff for us.

FOS on you for saying that the Cop should verify Dice. If we do that then we will only out our Cop, making him a target or his investigation could get blocked or redirected or something.

That's why I said that the Doc should keep protecting Dice so we don't lose him. The Lover should just stay hidden.

@Thorum:

Asking all the titans to come forward will only benefit the mafia because they will only start killing off all the confirmed townies. The only good way to deal with this is for them te keep quiet and only reveal if they absolutely have to. And what do you mean with two confirmed townies? Keeping an Oracle alive with the help of the Doc is more benefitial than just killing him. I don't think that Nolder and RTE would have made this game unbalanced, and so the mafia team must have a lot of tricks up their sleeves too.

@Ithi:

We could lynch a Titan to prove that Dice isn't lying about his info (I'm starting to believe him anyway but it's good to verify him).

I'd rather Lynch someone I felt was Mafia ... this idea feels wrong.

Meh it's a small sacrifice for keeping the Oracle and the Cop alive.

Starting to think Cloud is misguided town. Cloud please read:

1. We don't need to lynch a Titan or a Lover. Calm down.

2. Stop directing the Doc. Immediately.

csarmi · September 5, 2013

@Thorum - I'm wrong:

I'd be right that if we assume P(AuB)=1, then P(B|not(A))=1, but it doesn't work with probabilities such as 0.8 (or 0.75 for that matter). Still, I think we might be calculating the wrong probabilities there.

WWWwombat · September 5, 2013

Vote Basel

@Ithi: We should always try to verify someone. I indeed think that Dice is town, but I can't be sure and this might just be the biggest mafia gambit ever or something. I think everyone would relax more if we knew for certain that Dice is town.

Shut up. This is the same kind of stuff you were saying to try to get the claimed doc and cop lynched in Despo's game. It was a terrible idea then, and it's still a terrible idea now.

csarmi · September 5, 2013

I read up.

I'm going to vote Despo.

I don't like his Titans ideas and his fishing in general. Could also go with Basel or Cloud.

Some of Cloud's reactions/prods don't sit well with me. With Basel it's what people pointed out - two reads and nothing more + vote flipping.

Thorum pings me a lot, but I don't think I have played with him yet and people say that's quite normal.

I liked Tina's play a lot, the only thing making me doubt is Ithi's observation in post #295.

Mish sounds like town to me (which looks rather strange, I always find her scummy, maybe I didn't read very carefully).

Not sure where I stand about Wombat, he has good posts in general and good points usually, but I don't see him scumhunting.

I can't read Ithi: very agressive, very town or very maffia.

Darthe is Darthe. Except he isn't. What.

WWWwombat · September 5, 2013

Vote Basel

@Ithi: We should always try to verify someone. I indeed think that Dice is town, but I can't be sure and this might just be the biggest mafia gambit ever or something. I think everyone would relax more if we knew for certain that Dice is town.

Why would we want to relax? This is maffia.

You don't relax. You scumhunt until all scum are dead. Also,your first statement is just plain false. No, you don't always have to try to verify someone. More often than now, that's just a distraction that would solve itself in a day or two.

QFT

mega ninja

Maybe he is fibbing about being human.

Maybe he is a God. A MAFIA GOD!!!!

then why would he tell us all mafia are gods?

Because it's obvious and might give him town cred with some of the less scrupulous townies?

WHICH REMINDS ME.

DONT CLAIM TITAN OR HUMAN.

DONT CLAIM TITAN OR HUMAN.

DONT CLAIM TITAN OR HUMAN.

By doing so you directly limit the mafia NK pool and help them, but you also show them who they can't try to lynch during the day. It's a great way to make their job easier. You can get run up and then claim or claim later of need be, but for now there's no point.

QFT. Would have QFT'd your earlier wall too, but I don't think Ithi is scum and it was too long to QFT anyways.

Greek Mythology: Man Vs. Gods [Advanced] - GAME OVER - TOWN WINS!

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