August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

[Leelou]

[hazelkrs1]

 

Am I voting him? NO

 

The wifom is how do we know he isn't mafia "IN THIS THREAD"

 

And why are you so blantly defending him?

 

I've stated my thoughts on his lynch. Your comments stick out. Why you think helping push his lynch along without voting yourself is advantageous to you is beyond me.

 

 

This. Solid scum read on Chuckles this game. Pushing a lynch without voting on it, pointing out that we hasn't voting on it, and then responding to Csarlami's back and forth a ton while trying to belay an aloof attitude.... yeah he's scum. Book it.

 

 

Yeah cause a 1-time BPV that has already claimed is SOOOO useful to town.  The PR to top all other PR's

 

It's quite useful, actually. Are you saying that a player that can't be killed is not a thorn in the maffia's side?

 

What if that townie gets confirmed?

 

That role has a lot of tactical uses. Keep denying it, I'm sure that's gonna help you.

 

 

Meh you're dead now which means I get the last word

 

1. You weren't claiming unkillable. You claimed 1-time BPV. BIG difference

2. You claimed. That took away just about ANY of the positive utility associated with a BPV. You really think mafia would have tried to target you after that?

3. If anything, claiming the BPV would have basically added negative utility to the role. The wifom in the claim could have served as a distraction till you eventually got lynched

4. Even if you WERE confirmed somehow, this still would have added to the negative utility of your situation. Investigative role would have had to out themselves to say you were town, putting them in danger. Additionally, since you were town, that night they wasted viewing you was a night they could have been potentially viewing a scummie. And all this to protect someone who wasn't even doing a good job for the most part of actually trying to scumhunt? Yeah would have been a giant waste.

 

BPV is NOT a powerful town role, especially the way you played it.

 

 

Well firstly I disagree that the theory was sound, as the likelihood of getting someone to out themselves would have to be taken into account when considering whether it was a good idea or not, and I also don't like the concept of letting him off the hook in 2 threads if he claimed scum in one...

 

...

 

Finally, and here's one of my biggest problems with it: Why would scum Csarlami in one thread care two pebbles about town in the other two threads?

While I wasn't a huge proponent of Serra's plan, I can't see the scum motivation in proposing it. Mostly, I think it's pretty Town thought because of the answer to the question in bold. If I were Town in 3 threads [as Salami claims], a Town PR in one of them, and facing the threat Salami is in? I'd claim scum in one of my VT threads - thus saving my PR. Then again, I'd probably do the same thing if I were scum in one thread to save my scum role. Hindsight FTW.

 

 

The scum motivation in proposing the plan could have been an attempt to gain town cred. Serra conceded as much already. And I agree with you, as town in all threads I might have said I was scum in one of the VT threads to save my "PR", but that prob wouldn't have worked. Once that simulacrum of myself got lynched and flipped town, people would have then thought I was lying to protect a scum self in one of the other threads. Same thing would have happened as scum, incidentally.

 

Basically Serra was promoting a plan which wouldn't have worked, which could have been antitown if Csarlami had been scum in two games, and had almost zero chance of actually happening since pretty much no one should have gone for that plan. Promoting a plan that sounds good in theory but is awful in practice is an obvious attempt to gain town cred in my book.

 

 

Oh god dude

 

Hence..-->Baguette.

 

Was from my first game

It wasn't exactly a high point in my life. 

 

 

Say WHAAAAT?! That was an awesome point in your life Tiinker. You brought amusement to many that day and for possibly years to come!

 

Hence ==>

 

Krak...will you marry me?

 

Dyawwwwhhh

 

 

ROFL

 

[hazelkrs1]

Just getting out my reads on the diff threads real quick. I got Serra/Cloud/Rorschach as scum in T1, Cloud/Nolder in T2, and Chuckles/??? in this game. Gonne go back through this one tonight to see if can glean anything from it

[Leelou]

 

 

 

ROFL

 

 

 

That's one of my favorites from xkcd. 

[hazelkrs1]

Okay so first off going to just quote my global posts from T1, it's summarized thoughts of what I first mentioned in T2:

 

Okay so going to catch this thread up to some of my thoughts from T2.

 

So I'm the Vig in T2, and I'm VT in this game and T3. Csarlami was BPV in T2, VT in this one and T3. Ishy flipped Jailkeeper in T2. And in case you missed it, there's something special about the OP's in each thread as well. Wombat dies as alignment ____ in this one (seriously have no idea, coloring is blue tho for what that's worth), Darthe dies as Mafia in T3's OP, and both mods die in T2 as possible 3rd party.

 

This all tells me there may be another way the threads are tied together. I'm guessing that there are less roles overall in T1 and T3. Don't have a ton of evidence for this yet, but the stuff I do have points to this being possible. I also think that there might be something like Cult in T1, Mafia in T3, and Cult AND Mafia in T2, which could explain why there might be more roles for town. It could be something like Mafia in T1 and T3 and Cultafia in T2 tho, or something like that.

 

I would like to know if anyone else has any thoughts on this, if they want to corroborate it, disprove it, whatever.

 

 

As for vote analysis, the people who pretty much constructed the meta-lynch on CSalarmi, and by that I mean all the early culprits on his train, were Nolder, Verbal, Leelou, Yates, Cloud, and Razen.

 

Nolder was the most outspoken about it, however I could still see him pushing it overtly as scum instead of trying to do it quietly.

 

Leelou and Verbal both play on JN a lot, where there are a lot more speedlynches and quick wagons, so I don't think their votes stand out as much.

 

Yates' thinking seems to have mirrored my own somewhat, in that the plan was a unique one and a good opportunity to try and compare info from each thread (it was a good idea btw, and it's already paying off... sorta lol). He seems town to me in at least T1 and T2. Gotta reread T3 to make sure on him there.

 

Cloud's play looks mighty scummy in T1 and T2. Moreso in T2, because he joined two bandwagons quick (first was on Yates), but I remember feeling pretty sketchy about him in this one as well. Once again, I have to go back through T3 again to see how I feel on him there.

 

Razen was the laziest of the early pushers on the metalynch. Just voted, didn't give any reasoning or anything, didn't say he agreed with the concept, nothing. He might be the best candidate for what Tina described in this thread: People that were pushing Csarlami's metalynch as a way of masking their own meta. I in fact initially voted Razen a bit ago (since that thread is the go-getter of the trio and is already in day phase). After reviewing his case in that one however, I ended up changing my vote to Cloud, because his case was pretty good. But perhaps he's better at casing when he's town, and he was trying to mask his meta to hide his scumminess in T1 or T3. Worth looking into possibly.

 

This thread I have the weakest reads on however (Chuckles was my only one), so I'm about to go back through here and see what I can find.

[hazelkrs1]

Okay I'm happy with the info I was able to get on reread

 

 

 

Lotta quiet sheeping going on. Would appreciate a little more input from those of you who are just jumping on the Csarmi train.

 

I voted him first. In the other thread. 

 

Hard to keep track of such things...

And the threads are only ~5 pages each at most.

Inter thread play is going to get complicated quick.

I suggest it be dropped by tomorrow unless there's a good reason for it or we're going to all get way too twisted.

 

 

Huge FOS @ Nolder for the last line. Not using interthread play would pretty much COMPLETELY defeat the purpose of the metalynch that he himself was pushing harder than anyone

 

 

 

Handsome.

Charming.

An excellent mod.

Can eat a bag of dic#s hotdogs.

Reads my mind.

 

Welcome to Town Pile, Nolder, population 2!

 

Aw yeeeaaah. Me and my buddy Yates here gonna wreck some scum today.

 

 

Some buddying between Yates and Nol. Nol doesn't question the buddying whatsoever. Also no reason for Yates to automatically assume Nolder is town for pointing out the reasoning behind the metalynch

 

I think you're overanalyzing a game that is after all, only three hours old.

That said, I'm just pushing his lynch for the lulz.

 

FOS @ Ishy for saying he was pushing the lynch "for the lulz". Attempt to divert blame denied.

 

 

I think you're overanalyzing a game that is after all, only three hours old.

That said, I'm just pushing his lynch for the lulz.

 

 

So..you want Nolder to stop posting his thoughts?  Why?

 

 

BIIIIG reach by Peace here. Puts words into Ishy's mouth

 

 

 

Ok. He flips town ITT. Now what?

Same question again only he flipped mafia.

Why would that change anything?

 

If town...next thread.

 

If scum..you think a bit cause it's less likely he is scum elsewhere.  Not impossible but a pause button would be appropriate. Especially if we are doing this because we think he is just creating a meta across all 3 threads to hide his scum persona. 

 

"Think a bit".

I'm sorry but that is so meaningless. Just like "getting info".

It's intangible promises and expectations. You are not presenting me with hard reasons just "what if" arguments.

 

It looks to me like you and others are trying to stall his lynch under the guise of being the voice of reason. And I don't think you'd be doing it in just this thread if that's all this was.

You'd argue it out over the three threads like everyone was doing with Csarmi before he left. That indicates it was a calculated choice which would mean you're either scum in this game and trying to buy credit off of defending Csarmi whom you know to be town in this game or you're trying to save your teammate. I doubt you'd be so bold this early so it's probably the former.

 

Once Csarmi hangs you're next in this game IMO.

 

 

Another FOS @ Nol for creating two diff possibilities for Peace, and stating him to be scum in both lol

 

 

My thoughts on this isn't based on his likeliness to be scum in other threads if he flips here.  My thoughts on lynching fast in this thread then seeing what happens is getting reads on those who voted or not voted him here and comparing meta's to other threads.  I'm not saying not to lynch him on all there..just not at the exact same time.  This allows more opportunity for scum hunting. 

 

 

This is kind of relevant in light of the fact that Peace didn't vote for Csarlami in T2. More relevant for T2 but also for this one as well.

 

Cloud's confusion about games reads genuine. He's probably not scum here. I disagree with his assessment that cross-thread stuff is spam though.

 

I disagree with the votes on Yates. His RVS is pretty standard.

 

I can agree with the theory that Nolder is scum in one of the three threads as well. I don't think it's this one though.

 

Bg wanting to let Csarmi live here is very dodge. I would say they're either scum here together, or bg is scum in at least 1 if not both of the others.

 

Lenlo is town for questioning Yates also repeating the same post across the 3 threads and encouraging crossreferencing the games.

 

Ishy is wrong about Nolder overanalysing stuff, but his carefree attitude also reads town.

 

Peace misreps Ishy pretty badly by impying Ishy wants Nolder to stop posting. Also, peace wanting to start lynching Csarmi in this thread strikes me as a bit off. I think we might have Peace-scum wanting to get Csarmi-town lynched here before we hit Csarmi scum in 1 and/or 2.

 

dap's post on bg is townie and valid. bg-scum is looking like a serious option, perhaps even without Csarmi-scum.

 

Razen also makes a good point on bg, about his use of "arbitrary",

 

I like this post. I think Serra's town in this game.

 

This claim doesn't sit right with me. You see, I'm vanilla town in this game and my full name is Redshirt #3. You have a full on name.

Unvote: Vote Csarmi
 

 

I don't think BG would claim the "Redshirt" thing as scum, since that name sticks out more than most of ours (I say that because of my name in this thread, and Csarlami's, and the fact that others (Pral, I think, for one) said his reasoning was false.

 

So town read on BG for this post.

 

On the subject of names, I have three different and distinct names. In fact in two games I am a woman and one game I am a man.

BG is still an anomaly as he is claiming not to have a name at all but I wouldn't put too much stock into what the names mean if anything.

 

OOOOOHHHH this is a big deal perhaps. Nolder has three different and distinct names apparently.... hrmm..... I have three different names, but the last names of each are very similar.

 

Is it... could it be possible that we have the same scum in each thread perhaps? Seems like a really stupid idea, like the mods would create this challenging game concept and then just dumb it down a bunch by doing that... but I dunno, if we get a scum in one thread it could be worth testing in another tho.

 

Another possibility is that there might be one or two people who ARE scum in all 3. Either way, I already pointed out the possible thing with Nolder in my global post a sec ago, if I had to say which thread he's most likely scum in it would be this one tho.

 

---

 

I ended up deleting Leelou's WoT post cause it was too quote heavy, but yeah my thoughts still stand on that. Just a bit overly defensive for one line about her sheeping Verbal. Might quote it separately in a bit possibly.

 

 

 

Don't I?

 

They're lynching town instead of playing the game. Going on a crazy and useless hunt that has already costed town a lot in one of the threads. 

Should be enough reason to unvote, start playing and start voting people.

 

 

see if we unvote and start voting others

 

there'll be a constant cloud of wifom surrounding you, which will be annoying the further we the game progress, what part of that didnt you understand? 

 

 

Yeahhhh here's why Chuckles is scum in this thread. He says "if we unvote and start voting others" when he WASN'T VOTING CSALARMI. Tries to file himself along with the town, and pushes Csarlami's lynch while not actually being on it. Pretty much as scummy as it gets.

 

 

 

I'm quite serious. Please make sure to tell us what we will have gained in global and what we will have gained locally, in this game. 

In exchange, I'm happy to try and spend some time on this thread. Ask me some questions, etc.

 

 

Again, the global thing: That was all YOU!!! You are the one that cross meta'd all three threads by c/ping and starting bandwagons. Until then, and you did this very early, people were treating the threads differently. You brought the focus on yourself in 3 threads and made it GLOBAL. The info we will get is from how people have reacted to your trains. If you haven't noticed, some people are acting very differently in regards to your trains on different threads and having your alignment will help assess their behaviors. 

 

 

Once again Leelou responds emotionally... her meta this game is much different from the other two imo

 

As I said in Thread 1, Csarmi I was against lynching you in all 3 threads but after that explosion not lynching you just wouldnt be worth it. Not only did that jump you up on my scumdar but it also makes you the most informative lynch in all 3 threads.

 

Vote Csarmi

 

Lastly I noticed Lenlo was much chattier in this thread than the others, and I don't think he voted Csarlami in the other threads as well, lemme check... hmm not much variance actually. 5 posts in T2, 7 in T1, and 8 in this thread. But his posts seemed to contain much more gameplay in this thread than any of the others. Will have to follow up on that later.

 

Top scum reads in this game now: Chuckles, Nolder, Peace, and Leelou

[michellem]

I wouldn't read too much into Nolder's names Des; I have 3 very different names too.

 

But the rest of your list is basically my own list. Chuckles has played an awful game this game; prodding and pushing but never comitting. Peace like I said before is mostly a gut feeling from me, and I've never seen Leelou play so emotional so that grabs my attention too, but I don't feel as strongly about her as the two others.

[lolguy26]

Well I didn't vote salami cuz I didn't have a scum read on him this thread, but T2 (right?) I voted him cuz I found him pinging me there, and if you see I never said I found him scummy, I wanted him lynched to stop the wifom

[michellem]

And how exactly was there more wfiom around him than any other player in the game? Just because he was more in the spotlight? And if you wanted him lynched... Why didn't you place a vote?

[Leelou]

Talking about the name thing, I don't have last names. 

[michellem]

I think until we see a mafia flip (or third party flip), and we can see that their names is noticably different from townies, I think we should just ignore the names.

[hazelkrs1]

Strange about the names... All my last names are similar.

 

Chuckles, you're not helping yourself out right now. So you voted CSarlami in the thread you didn't find him scummy to remove the "wifom" (that essenentially didn't exist), and DIDN'T vote him in the thread you DID find him scummy in?

 

Sketchhhhh

[hazelkrs1]

I think until we see a mafia flip (or third party flip), and we can see that their names is noticably different from townies, I think we should just ignore the names.

See that's just a dumb idea altogether. Ignoring any potential information that could help town is silly, and promoting that others should ignore it us very anti-town.

 

Rising up my scumdar Mish...

[lolguy26]

I did vote him when I found him scummy and mish if you read back me and salami had the exact same talk so I'm not going to repeat it

[michellem]

Des: Until we see proof that the names are indeed an indicator of being mafia or town, it's just speculation that detracts from scumhunting right now. We can think and speculate all we want, but it doesn't get us any farther with the info (or lack thereof) that we have right now. I'd rather look at the facts we do have on the table right now.

 

 

Chuckles: I'm talking about THIS thread. In THIS thread you said you wanted him lynched to get rid of the WIFOM. But you didn't vote him in THIS thread.

[hazelkrs1]

 

I think until we see a mafia flip (or third party flip), and we can see that their names is noticably different from townies, I think we should just ignore the names.

See that's just a dumb idea altogether. Ignoring any potential information that could help town is silly, and promoting that others should ignore it us very anti-town.

 

Rising up my scumdar Mish...

Just realized I was confused for a sec which thread j was posting in, the other thing I didn't like of Mish's came from another thread.

 

My point still stands tho. Any info can potentially be used by town to help scum, even if that info doesnt directly relate to any alignments or anything

[hazelkrs1]

Ninja'd lol.

 

Mish, what facts are on the table right now? We have 3 alignments. That's it. There's really not all that much to discuss if its just about the "facts" in front of us. Mafia is all about discussing different angles and topics that could end up potentially leading to catching scum.

 

I think you're pushing the "that talk is distracting town" angle as a way to gain town cred. You're essentially telling me to zip it about diff scumhunting angles I'm trying to set up. That's not very protown.

[lolguy26]

I wanted him gone, lynch Nk MK ZK whatever K, I found him ditracting which doesn't always mean scummy, so please stop putting words in my mouth with me wanting him lynched

[michellem]

Tell me this then: Exactly what are we gonna learn from discussing the names now, as long as we just have town flips? The only thing I have learnt is that there is no pattern so far, and thus before we see an anti-town flip, and see that those names are different from town names, we can't judge someone based on their character name.

 

Here's the names we've seen so far:

 

T1:

Csarmi, Selma Ross,

 

T2:

Leelou, Yew,

Ishy, Constable Rick MacDuff,

Csarmi, Marian Rose,

 

T3:

Csarmi - Chandler Rose,

 

The only thing I'm able to take out of that, is that there is no set logic to the town names we've seen so far, and until we see that, and see anti-town names that doesn't fit that pattern, the name discussion is fruitless. That's my view. Please feel free to tell me what grand plan you've seen that I haven't.

[michellem]

I wanted him gone, lynch Nk MK ZK whatever K, I found him ditracting which doesn't always mean scummy, so please stop putting words in my mouth with me wanting him lynched

 

Yes, yes, fine, you wanted him dead. But you still didn't CONTRIBUTE to get him dead, although you so badly wanted him dead to get rid of the wifom and help town... Right? But you didn't want to get your hands dirty while "helping town".

[lolguy26]

I didn't need to "help town" cuz you guys already had lynched when I wanted to vote (I already mentioned I was busywhen the lynch happened)

[Yates]

If only we had one person who has flipped in all 3 games.  Oh wait a tick... 

Here's the names we've seen so far:

 

T1:

Csarmi, Selma Ross,

 

T2:

Csarmi, Marian Rose,

 

T3:

Csarmi - Chandler Rose,

 

The only thing I'm able to take out of that, is that there is no set logic to the town names we've seen so far...

 

You seriously don't see it?  This is precisely how my names work, too.  Similar, same, same.  Actually, I have the exact same name in T2 and T3.  I agree that we don't want to go too crazy based on name claims but it is worth pointing out and keeping tabs on in case there IS a pattern.

[michellem]

But Yates Im saying that my names have no pattern at all. So theory is bust.

 

Chuckles, Ill deall with that post when I come home... Oh my thatll be entertaining.

[bgrishinko]

FWIW, Leelou said she doesn't have a last name in any thread, which is confirmed in T2.

[Yates]

But Yates Im saying that my names have no pattern at all. So theory is bust.

You see why I find that difficult to believe, right?  Salami flipped Town in all 3 games and has a pattern.  BG has claimed all three of his names and there's a pattern.  I know all three of my names and they have a pattern.  Des claims all three of his names have a pattern.  Not having a pattern is the anomaly so far.

 

Does anyone else have three names that don't have a pattern?