Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game 1 - Destiny Islands [Mafia Win!]

[Yates]

For those of you following along at home: the stuff DPR accused me of is in direct conflict with my meta.  A meta he is intimately aware of. 

 

What would be the Town motivation in pretending he doesn't know this??  Exactly.  There is no Town motivation.

 

What would be the scum motivation in pretending he doesn't know this?  Exactly.  To fabricate a fake case to create another mislynch.

 

Go look at my case that he handwaves.  It's a solid case and you will see he has no rebuttals for his cognitive dissonance or, for trying to push through the cop lynch, or really, anything else.

 

I'm done for the evening.  I think I've proven my case.  Des is flailing scum and awaits the sweet mercy of rope.

 

I am so confident of his scum flip I have already sworn to self-vote tomorrow if he somehow flips Town.  It's not going to happen peeps.  Let's do this.

[Yates]

Buddying =/= defending jackhole.

Yeah.  That's another fine argument to hang your hat on.  Let's get into a semantic argument.

 

Very well; go find an example of me DEFENDING one of my scum buddies.  There.  Bogus excuse removed.

[Yates]

t wasn't until I thought more about the Mish/fake viewing/miller claim thing that I started to put two and two together

Oh.  That's when you decided you guys were going to try to frame me?  Back when I took out your symp?  Thanks for the time stamp.

[Yates]

Vote: Des

[Nolder]

Voting

Yates - Des (1)

Hallia - Cloud (1)

Des - Yates, WBK  (2)

Verbal - Tina, Krak, BG, GF (6)

 

Not Voting: Verbal, Hallia, Player

 

With 11 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline.

[hazelkrs1]

 

This is just an awful, awful case Yates. It's as circumstantial as it gets.

 

...

 

Fact is, Verb claimed to have viewed two different townies on the same night they HAPPENED to get NK'ed, and didn't want to divulge his N2 viewing. Doesn't that seem a little, actually, a LOT, sketchy to you?

 

Weak vote bro.

I see. So all evidence against you just results in "weak case" or "weak vote?" Noted.

 

Also, circumstantial? Take a look at your "case" on me. Irony much? That's why it's called Cognitive Dissonance. You're doing stuff then claiming other people are doing that same stuff and claiming it's scummy. THAT is scummy!

 

The point is I don't completely rely on circumstantial evidence in my case. More than half the stuff you quote from day 1 was stuff from DPR that might have not even had anything to do with me, yet you still twisted it to make it seem like it did. You weren't digging for evidence, you were looking for stuff that could fit your case on me.

 

Also, your point there about how the cop views were "sketchy" are completely out of line and a misrep. Verb was clearly picking up on the same cues you and your scum team were. I would have played cop differently but that doesn't mean my way is better [though I would have found DPR N1].

How are his "views" not sketchy? He viewed two different townies that were killed in the same night, and didn't want to say what his N2 action was. If you seriously don't find that sketchy, I think you might need to retake Mafia 102: Fake Claims

 

Failure to explain why he attempted to discredit me and call me scummy for waiting for a claim: noted.

 

I wasn't trying to discredit you for acting cautious at all, it was acting cautious about Verbal's lynch, the way he was trying to act cautious about Mish's. It was more tongue in cheek than anything, yet you seem all up in arms about it. This is the kind of thing I meant when I said you're scrambling.

 

 

Only preschoolers NEED to rely on cop reads to win games. Plus, I still did, and do, have plenty of reason to not trust Verb's claim.

Is this how you are going to try to sell the "let's kill the cop anyway" angle? Scummy as all get out.

 

And what are some of these myriad mystery reasons not to trust Verb's claim? Wow me.

 

It's true. Verbal has stated this himself: people who feel like they need NA info to safely win a game are like children who's hand needs to be held as they walk through the zoo. We've already caught two mafia. Imo, trading a cop for another scum would easily be worth it.

 

As for the reasons, now you're just being lazy. I stated my reasons for not trusting the claim many, many times. Go back and clicky.

 

 

Nice try in editing out my actual points in the hopes people would forget about them.

Say WHAT???!!! Now you are accusing me of editing your posts?!! Please... My posts are there for people to read clear as a bell. That's a HUGE lie on your part. Shame on you.

 

You DID edit them, dolt. You took out my points in the simplified case against you and instead just quoted me saying "My simplified case on Yates". There was no reason to, especially since you love doing this whole multiquote WoT battle.

 

 

1. Come on man. You know as well as I do that I can't "prove" that you did what you did to derail DPR's lynch, but I suggested it as a possibility, and ]b]you can't deny that it's a plausible move as scum trying to defend a teammate[/b]

Sorry. Unacceptable. You know why?

This is just an awful, awful case Yates Des. It's as circumstantial as it gets.

 

 

I don't care if you don't accept it or not. Others can think for themselves and see if it is. You're a good enough mafia player that you aren't going to have major slips for the most part, so you have to be willing to read between the lines. I had never thought about you pulling that stunt with Mish as an attempt to derail DPR's lynch before that reread. In fact, I had a town read on you at that point.

 

 

2. First of all, I don't know where you got the thing about the countertrain being comprised entirely of scum from

You know EXACTLY where that's coming from and you're basically calling everyone in this game stupid for thinking they wont get it. You are saying I'm scum because I was defending DPR/not on his wagon! ANYONE can see what you are implying. Flail more.

 

No, no, no. I was NOT implying EVERYONE on the countertrain was scum. Never even came CLOSE to implying that. I was stating that YOU were defending DPR's lynch the hardest. You WERE. Can't dance around that fact man. Most of the others on Hallia's train prob voted her because they were scared of testing DPR's claim. Somewhat understandable, but I still think it was the wrong move in light of all the info we had.

 

Oh and nice use of the even worse buzz word in mafia: "flail"

 

 

 

3. I already mentioned that mafia could have tried[/u] pulling hijinks with that.

Sorry. Unacceptable. You know why?

 

 

Not circumstantial. Unproven =/= circumstantial. Unproven is just that, unproven. I'm saying it's possible that mafia have some kind of NA manipulation tool, considering how many people were pushing for him to get "vetted" instead.

 

Once again, this aint rocket science man. You see enough people clamoring for that, and then the person they're defending flips scum, GUESS WHAT. That could be an indication of some kind of role manipulation going on. Why am I having to school you on this type of stuff again?

 

 

4. You might not have intentionally acted bitter, but you certainly seemed to bely that tone with your "yall got lucky" posts.

And yet you can't give a reason for scum Yates to do that. You know why? Because there is none. So what was your point?? I know you tried to slip this one by but it's not happening.

 

 

 

My point is the bitterness could have been unintentional. You aren't perfect man, you could have easily let that tone slip in unintentionally.

Also, pretending the VERY important game theory that happened there wasn't pro Town is a bunch of junk. You guys [you intentionally] ignored it with Tiinker too. You got lucky AGAIN that he was just vanilla. I think that close call is what finally woke everyone else up over here to let Verb claim. What if THAT had gone through?? I would have PRAYED to see you as the hammer so I could turbolynch you come morning.

 

So are you saying you KNOW Verbal is the Cop then? How could you know that? Do you know that he's town? Once again, how could you know that? And I'm sure you would have LOVED to turbolynch me, scum.

 

And I didn't hammer Tiink btw. I don't personally support blind lynches.

 

 

5. ??? Sketchy Miller claim was sketchy. Still is.

Good. Hang your hat on that. In the mean time, I was nailing scum all by myself - not parroting other's cases then claiming victory as my own. *glares at Des*

 

 

Show me where I have parroted other's cases. I make my own cases man. If I see something I agree with, I'll mention it, but one thing you can NOT call me is a lazy scumhunter. I build my own cases and peruse pages for clues. Stop misrepresenting me.

 

Also note that you DO know I know how to fakeclaim. Of this there is no doubt since my fakeclaim won us that game. So give it up. This is weak sauce and you know it.

 

See my comment above on that. You didn't have a brilliant fake claim, and your fake claim didn't win us that game. The day end ability won it for us. It wasn't your claim, it was that Tress didn't find it very plausable that a GF would have a Governor type ability. THAT saved your skin, not any fake claim.

 

You know, except for the Tiinker mislynch but we'll sweep that under the carpet since I see you lined up some more mislynches.

 

I already explained that Tiinker's lynch wasn't solely on Whyme=Fryme. A big part, a huge part in fact, was his voting history. Dap was the one that pointed that out.

 

 

7. Attempt to gain townie cred from Mish's flip denied

Attempt to gain town cred for being on a wagon that had gone to L-1 the previous day denied. See how that works? Fun.

 

 

I never tried acting like I was town savior of the universe for being on that train, OR for pushing DPR's lynch hard the next day. I wait to toot my horn until AFTER the game. You have been tooting it about Mish for a while now.

 

Attempt to ignore role in Town mislynch denied.

 

When did I ignore it? I addressed it, and what else more is there to say? I was wrong about him. /shrug

 

 

 

Tbh once I saw Yates saying we should lynch Hallia or Tink I was starting to think Tink might be town.

"Guise! I'm using my hindsight vision to tell you Tiinker is Town! Imma try to go back and time and save him but the game won't let me. Soooo sad."

 

Attempt to ignore fake attempt at Town credit noted.

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

If we lynch Des and he flips Town - I will SELF VOTE.

If yall end up being dumb enough to lynch me, HOLD YATES TO THIS.

 

No holding required. I'm GOING to do it. It's called a 1 v 1. Merrily I will not have to pay up.

 

 
Uh huh. We'll see. Guess who has two thumbs and nothing to hide!


 

 

Here's the thing; if ANYONE knows my scum meta? It's HIM! We have pages of theory discussion in a QT. Now he's trying to pretend like he couldn't possibly know my meta? Give me a break...

This is the game where I pretty much won the game for scum all by myself: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/rtEAF543UTcf [there were jokes about it in the sign up thread iirc]

This is our scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/BuLXG2KMRcyjp

Open book. Find ONE instance of me buddying with my scum partners. Just ONE. It's not going to happen. I don't do it. Period. Had a whole discussion about it. Des knows it and is pretending like he doesn't because it doesn't fit into his made up "case" on me.

I'm not about to let him get away with it.

 

 
Find one instance eh?
 

Yates
06-03-2013
09:55 PM ET (US)


My problem with the Des vote is it relies on less information than the Ishy lynch. It also provides less information. If Ishy is scum, your Des case fails. If Des is scum, that generates no information on Ishy.

If you are going to derail the first viable wagon of the game, would you please tell me what makes Ishy "clearly town?"

 
Boom.

 

There was actually other instances of you defending me, but I wasn't going to keep combing through that thread one godawful click at a time. Point is, you DO sometimes defend teammates when mafia. Visible proof amigo.

 

No kindly just hang yourself please.

[hazelkrs1]

Also Yates, quit hiding behind your meta bro. It's disgusting. This is your FIRST game on DM. The only people who should discuss your meta are others who know it independently.... And look they're both dead.

[Niniel]

OMG! Stop it! Are you really going to use that other game as arguments here? 

 

Unvote. 

 

No one has cc´d.

 

I need to read back after breakfast. 

[Nolder]

Voting

Yates - Des (1)

Hallia - Cloud (1)

Des - Yates, WBK  (2)

Verbal - Krak, BG, GF (3)

 

Not Voting: Verbal, Hallia, Player, Tina

 

With 11 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline.

[hazelkrs1]

For those of you following along at home: the stuff DPR accused me of is in direct conflict with my meta. A meta he is intimately aware of.

 

What would be the Town motivation in pretending he doesn't know this?? Exactly. There is no Town motivation.

 

What would be the scum motivation in pretending he doesn't know this? Exactly. To fabricate a fake case to create another mislynch.

 

Go look at my case that he handwaves. It's a solid case and you will see he has no rebuttals for his cognitive dissonance or, for trying to push through the cop lynch, or really, anything else.

 

I'm done for the evening. I think I've proven my case. Des is flailing scum and awaits the sweet mercy of rope.

 

I am so confident of his scum flip I have already sworn to self-vote tomorrow if he somehow flips Town. It's not going to happen peeps. Let's do this.

Hehe you confusing me with DPR? I think you've been using his name so much on yalls QT that you have it autosaved! Autocorrect ftw!

 

 

And bro. I am NOT intimately aware of your meta. I've been in ONE game with you. A game in which I showed you DEFENDING a teammate. Let it go man.

 

I addressed every point in your case I felt worth responding to, including why I still distrust Verbal. The cognitive dissonance thing is just you trying to use a fancy phrase in lieu of the fact that you have nothing solid against me. Prob cause I'm TOWN.

 

And there you go with that "I'm so sure Des is scum I'll self vote when he flips... I mean IF hehe he flips town!" stuff again. So scummy.

[hazelkrs1]

And now for something completely different... a picture of a Brazilian children's show character riding a skateboard who happens to have a ballsack for a face:

 

[Niniel]

Until somone cc I have to believe Verbal is cop. If he is not then I think the real cop should come out and tell us. Doc is still alive. 

 

 

 

2. Bgrishinko - was going after DPR pretty hard in the beginning wich made me believe he´s town. I know BG is fond of bussing as well but it didn´t look like it. He has contributed very little since then. I know he is not here much on weekends though.

 

3. Despothera - is he mafia? If so, I really don´t like the initial Des/DPR fight. He didn´t unvote Verbal and that really doesn´t look good. He was setting a trap for mafia to see if they would hammer? Let´s say he is mafia and a town got fooled and hammered Verbal. Then he would have gotten rid of the cop and made someone an easy target for tomorrows lynch. What I had on him before was his strange voting pattern from day 2. Btw. I don´t think he ever explained the jumping, did he? 

 

5. Cloud - see my last list. Went back and forth on DPR. His fos list during night 2 was Hallia, Tiinker, Tina, Kronos. Hallia is viewed town, Tiinker was town, I´m town. But this was an early list and town don´t know who is mafia. So no strong read either way. 

 

7. Wolfbrotherkronos - haven´t many notes about him. Kind of anonymous after day 1 fight with me.

 

8. Yates - still agree with Des that his defense of DPR could be mafia hiding in plain sight. I don´t like his 10 step case of Des. It´s like he is making up a story and then trying to make Des fit that story. My problem with Des and Yates is that I don´t think both of them are mafia. 

 

9. Verbal - cop until cc´d. Have all of us posted after the claim`?

 

11. Krakalakachkn - starting to lean more scum. The vote on Verbal was lazy. Except for trying to save DPR he has been rather quiet. Doesn´t look like he is scum hunting. Could vote him. 

 

12. Dapianoplay3r - have had a town read on him all game but he really need to post more.

 

13. Hallia - viewed town.I would like her to be more active as well.

 

15. TinaHel - town

 

17. Graendals favourite - I know that several players (including Des) have thought that I was scummy in other games because my English isn´t very good. It´s not always easy to pick the right words and explain my thoughts in a good way. I have the same problem with GF. I just don´t understand him. That is both his English and his thoughts. He has given his reason for voting Yates (protecting DPR) but other than that, I can´t see any thoughts about other players. I´m starting to think that I´m defending him because of the language right now. Still, will not vote him right now.

 

 

So: I would vote Des, Yates or Krak. I don´t think Des and Yates are mafia together. What do the rest of you think?

[hazelkrs1]

Thank you for seeing what I saw in Yates case on me Tina.

 

I am kinda hurt tho. I don't ever remember thinking you were scum because of language problems. In fact, I know you've often said you might have problems expressing yourself since English isn't your first language, but I honestly have always found to be very easy to understand, and in some ways you speak our language better than some people who grew up speaking it do hehe.

 

I did, and sometimes still do, have a problem always finding you kinda scummy. It's just playstyle I think. There are a good number of people who always find me scummy. There are other players that I almost always think are scummy besides you tho, peeps who have no difficulties with the language. Honestly feel bad that you thought I tried making you look scummy in the past because of language problems.

 

Anyways, I can explain my vote hopping for you if you'd like.

 

In the meantime, I'd be willing to vote Krak btw. He really hasn't contributed much this game, and I still think the earlier case against him stands (haven't responded yet to his responses to that case, gotta check that out again). The wiki thing just seems like too wild of a move to play as scum, but I could be giving him too much credit there.

[Niniel]

I saw you write it in a qt sometime. It was probably long ago. 

[hazelkrs1]

Had to go back a good bit to find this post hehe. I'm just assuming that you did this right and got all my votes correct, and in order. My rationale for each vote in blue:

 

Didn´t see Tiinker´s posts. 

 

I am NOT your best bet for scum today. I think that goes to Hallia or Krak. Hallia avoided voting DPR and pretty much only ever did when she was being accused of not voting for him, or being told to. I won't have time to dig up Kraks posts till later when I get home from work but I'll pick it apart then assuming I'm not speed lynched.

 

You are not our best bet for scum - that is good to know. 

 

 

Good morning, Des. Or maybe good night for you? While I´m looking for the Tiinker quotes can you please explain your voting pattern yesterday. If my notes are correct your voted:

 

1. DPR Don't really think I need to explain this one that much. I had him pegged as mafia for a long time

2. Mish This was when Yates revealed his "viewing" on her. I left my vote on her after she claimed miller all fast.

3. Verb I voted him because of his fence-sitting post when Mish claimed Miller. Imo, Verbal is enough of a vet to know that claimed millers need to be lynched to prevent wifom from clouding the thread

4. Kronos Kronos voted Yates after Mish flipped symp. Apparently he missed that Mish flipped mafia and thought she flipped miller after all. He's still on my radar for that and other moves, but I think cases on others are still stronger.

5. Verb Moved my vote back to Verb after Kronos explained his fubar

6. Hallia Okay right here is where I think I was kinda loopy at the time honestly. I remember staying up way later than I normally do because the game had picked up and gotten exciting. Anyways, Hallia expressed confusion about whether or not Yates was really a Cop or not. I found this scummy as heck at the time (in retrospect I just think she was a derptown who either skimmed or completely missed a page when Yates made it obvious he had faked the viewing). I also saw others voting her as well, so I thought it would be a good idea to keep the voting activity up

7. DPR I had kinda forgotten about DPR in the midst of everything else going on, but when he posted a very wifomy response to someone.... I think Darthe? I saw it and remembered how scummy I found him, and how scummy that post was made me put my vote back on him. I then went to sleep finally.

 

 

Oh...

 

8. Hallia I woke up and was following along somewhat while stil doing other stuff that day, and noticed a lot of people were ignoring DPR's train and voting Hallia. I thought the deadline was getting close, and I thought Hallia was a good bit ahead of DPR at that point since there hadn't been a VC in a while. I think I was on my way to work, or getting ready or something when I voted

9. DPR Got to work and saw that Darthe had done an unofficial VC, and that the trains were closer than I thought, so I switched back to DPR.

 

Basically, a good bit of my vote-hopping happened because that day was an unusual day. A lot happened what with Yates' faked viewing on Mish, her eventually being modkilled, etc. There were a lot of people active at the time and the thread was moving along very fast. I had pledged to reinvigorate my motivation in the game since I had my little outburst the day before when I asked for a replacement/MK. So I was trying to keep the activity up as much as possible, since 24 hr deadlines force you to be more active, otherwise people will just pile onto an easy lynch far too many times, if they can even secure a lynch at all.

 

Hope that explains it well enough. Going from memory here.

[hazelkrs1]

I saw you write it in a qt sometime. It was probably long ago. 

 

I don't remember that.

 

If I did tho, I'll take your word for it. I'm sorry for that, that does seem pretty underhanded to me and I try to stay away from moves like that. Mebbe I was being corrupted with some evil teammates or something...

[Niniel]

No need to appologize and I´m not looking for any "you are good at English" posts either. I´m better at English now than I was when I came to DM but I´m not a person that have an easy time to learn languages. Anyway, that post was not about me but just an exlanation of why I might overlook GF. 

 

As you understand, I found that your vote pattern that day was pretty scummy since you were all about DPR being scum and yet you voted a lot of other people

[hazelkrs1]

Yeah, I think I became a victim of short-sightedness during that time, and was voting for the most recent thing I found scummy since all this other stuff was flying around. I can understand you finding that questionable. I will say that I pride myself on not getting too bad tunnelvision; I try to stay as impartial as possible throughout a game.

 

But yeah, my scum read on DPR was strong enough that it prob would have been best just to put my vote back on him after Mish was MK'ed.

[hazelkrs1]

And I do think that's worth apologizing for btw. I think good sportsmanship is important in mafia culture, and I think using something like that against someone is pretty underhanded. Hopefully it was a long time ago and that my moral compass was righted after that game.

[Niniel]

Okay, stop being nice to me now. :p

 

Waiting for others to stop by.

[hazelkrs1]

Hehe sorry, trying to make up for all the times I thought you were scummy!

 

Honestly tho I did still think you could be scum until my recent reread. My thing was you could have been lying about missing the chance to hammer DPR day 1, and your early vote on him day 2 could have been a bus vote since he looked like a potential lynch from the day before. But after my reread you looked pretty town, and when I saw you making your cases like you were I was sure of it.

 

Also I'm bored and wish more would come and put forth their thoughts. Curses to the mafia for killing off town's most active players. If I succeed in getting Yates lynched (pretty sure he's scum now), I have a feeling I'll be next to go. /shrug

[Nolder]

Voting

Yates - Des (1)

Hallia - Cloud (1)

Des - Yates, WBK  (2)

Verbal - Krak, BG, GF (3)

 

Not Voting: Verbal, Hallia, Player, Tina

 

With 11 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline.

[hazelkrs1]

I kinda wish I hadn't left all that other stuff out from my huge reread. I had a few things that showed my thinking in both Hallia, Cloud, and Tina were all town. Ended up leaving a bunch of stuff off cause I quote grabbed too much.

 

Either way, we gotta get some kind of train going. Tina, you gonna join me on Yates? If not, lemme know so we can start one on Krak. Yates will keep.

 

Got a little more than 6 hours left to get 7 votes on someone.

[Graendals favourite]

Well, I'm ok with voting voting Yates, unvote vote yates