Xbox One - Great System, or the Greatest?

[Nolder]

 

basically you guys are trashing the new xbox over rumors and half truths at best lol

That it requires a once every 24 hour check to play any game, isn't a rumor. 

 

Again though, half truths and rumors.

That isn't the kind of Always On that people were afraid it would be.

[SinisterDeath]

 

@ Nol.  you miss my point.  you're talking about goign to a gamming existance that completely does away with the phsyical disk.  i'm saying that its not going to happen

 

 

Books: paper books still out sell the digital formats, and bookstores are still going strong

 

Movies: you have to buy the PHSYICAL DVD to get that code.

 

Music: the digital format is nearing a decade old and i can still go to Best Buy and purchase the PHSYICAL CD or order the PHYSICAL CD off Amazon.

 

 

 

point is, you saying that the next gen will go to cloud only format (when the next gens will be release in less than 10 years) is jumping the gun.

Ummm nahhh you're wrong. Next gen or the gen after will definitely be cloud only. 

 

As for your your counter examples

Books: Digital sales continue to sky rocket while paperback is in decline, Borders went bankrupt and B&N is (or was as of a few years ago) in trouble

Movies: Yeah, but you can also just buy or rent the movie online through various services. That's why when you buy movies these days they usually come with the code, because you paid extra to have a physical copy.

Music: I think that's more about resistance to change and trying to eke out every last penny than anything else. Buying music digitally is vastly superior in terms of price and storage.

 

 

 

@ Nol.  you miss my point.  you're talking about goign to a gamming existance that completely does away with the phsyical disk.  i'm saying that its not going to happen

 

 

Books: paper books still out sell the digital formats, and bookstores are still going strong

 

Movies: you have to buy the PHSYICAL DVD to get that code.

 

Music: the digital format is nearing a decade old and i can still go to Best Buy and purchase the PHSYICAL CD or order the PHYSICAL CD off Amazon.

 

 

 

point is, you saying that the next gen will go to cloud only format (when the next gens will be release in less than 10 years) is jumping the gun.

Ummm nahhh you're wrong. Next gen or the gen after will definitely be cloud only. 

 

As for your your counter examples

Books: Digital sales continue to sky rocket while paperback is in decline, Borders went bankrupt and B&N is (or was as of a few years ago) in trouble

Movies: Yeah, but you can also just buy or rent the movie online through various services. That's why when you buy movies these days they usually come with the code, because you paid extra to have a physical copy.

Music: I think that's more about resistance to change and trying to eke out every last penny than anything else. Buying music digitally is vastly superior in terms of price and storage.

 

Still doesn't do anything to take away from two major points.

1) A huge number of people, still support the physical medium.

Why as a company, would you Alienate, 50% of your user base, and force them to a new one? All this does, is kill consumer loyalty.

2) Internet in the USA is lousy. hopefully in another 10 or 15 years (The gen Ps4/X1, or the gen after that.) Internet will be good enough, to actually make Cloud, and purely digital releases a reality.

 

Also, one thing to remember.

Games NOW are upwards of 8-12GBs.

Back in the ps2 era, Games were lucky if they were 2-4GBs.

 

This next gen? We are going to see more in the 8-32GB range.

The gen after? maybe 32-128GB range, maybe more.

 

I dunno about you, but Until our Net is almost entirely fiber optics, through out the USA, those kind of numbers... bode better on disc, then through networks that get bitchy if you start dling that much data. (And just see how your cell carrier treats you if you try DLing that much data!)

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

basically you guys are trashing the new xbox over rumors and half truths at best lol

That it requires a once every 24 hour check to play any game, isn't a rumor. 

 

Again though, half truths and rumors.

That isn't the kind of Always On that people were afraid it would be.

 

Its still an inconvenience.

I look at it like this.

 

Say I go 'camping', not outdoors tent camping, but, cabin, secluded, but still have Electricity (no cable, no internet). I could bring a HDTV, and an X1, but.. I'd be screwed after 2 days. Because without that daily connection, you can't play anything. (according to their own statements, during the reveal.)

 

Say, Internet goes out for 3 weeks, or, you simply couldn't pay your cable bill because the economies turned into a trash heap. you gotta keep electricity on. (well, I do... I mean, Heat + winter = Electricity! ) you could easily play the X1 with no cable/internet... If it didn't require a daily connection to play any game.

 

If they did, what sony did, by just requiring you to use a key to play the game online. That's a whole lot better, and less invasive than some of the things M$ has said.

[Red2111]

what SD said in post #27 hits the nail on the head.

 

and what happens when 40-60% of the players drop from the new gen because they can't keep their console connected to the internet to support game play.  they jack the prices up on he remaining customers, which will drive more business away.

 

 

between the cost of the console, having to re-buy the games from the back catalogue I already own, the data charges from my internet provider from all this online usage (apart from what I already do) and the download cost for all of those "hey you might like this title give the demo a shot" downloads from M$ / Sony ....  and the console being connected while in standby and doing auto updates.

 

 

yeah, internet providers my like this idea, and Sony/M$ may like this idea; but on the consumer end, we're getting shafter harder than the IRS doing an audit.  in the end, it could actually kill the gamming industry because it'll rocket prices too much; especially in a recession.

 

 

edit - which is only speaking from an economics stand point on this issue.  it doesn't even touch the non-viability of a cloud only service, or primarily cloud service.

 

even if the cloud service has you DL a game onto your consoles hard-drive.  first is the space needed to house the entire games without disk support, then there is the size of the games and the data charge not only to be online but also to DL the game itself. and don't forget, this is on the same coverage that shares with your cp and what you already do.

 

 

the hard drives on the current models are low 100's; how many games to you think you can fit on a hard drive if the hard drive had to support the entire game? skyrim has set the floor on game size, it will only go up from there.  hell look at Arkham Origins coming out and Assasins Creed Black Flag.  can your gamming consoles hard drive hold the entity of these 3 huge games?  nope.

 

 

this isn't even factoring in the security risks that online comes with.  they can hack phones. they'll start hacking our consoles now and holding the games ransom with Money Pac like viruses.

[SinisterDeath]

 

  having to re-buy the games from the back catalogue I already own

 

Well, since its not BC, its not going to have any 360 games on it at all. So... only games you'll be buying, are new ones,  not ones you already own...

except maybe, in those rare cases where some of the 360 games, are also on the X1. (like some of the PS3 ones coming out, will be on both ps3, and ps4... Like Diablo 3.)

[Nolder]

 

1) A huge number of people, still support the physical medium.

Yeah that's true. It's kind of stupid though because if everything went cloud games would be cheaper. 

And it would be better for companies because distribution is expensive and lame. They would rather just send you data.

 

 

2) Internet in the USA is lousy. hopefully in another 10 or 15 years (The gen Ps4/X1, or the gen after that.) Internet will be good enough, to actually make Cloud, and purely digital releases a reality.

Even so, Steam and Origin show that it can be done. 

[Red2111]

*eyes glaze over*

 

yeah, I saw that they are keeping their promise from a few years ago and bringing Diablo to consol.  I near did a back flip of elation in the store.   I pointed at it and looked at bubba and said "WANT"

 

 

 

to which he smiled and shook his head 

[SinisterDeath]

 

Yeah that's true. It's kind of stupid though because if everything went cloud games would be cheaper. 

And it would be better for companies because distribution is expensive and lame. They would rather just send you data

 

Tomb Raider

Splinter Cell

Company of Heroes 2

Bioshock: Infinite

 

What do these all have in common?

They were all released digitally on digital platforms like steam, GOG, and Origin.

They also released, at full retail, $59.99.

It doesn't make games cheaper for the consumer. It makes it cheaper for the produce. It increase profit margin by around.. $0.35-$5.00. (dvd versus BD)

 

Even so, Steam and Origin show that it can be done. 

Of course.

But, even so, those aren't perfect. You still have to wait until the games finished downloading to play it. (So hopefully steam impliments streamable games. Thankfully, they've made pre-loading a possibility to allow people to play it on Launch.)

 

And, that's going to get a lot more complicated, as game sizes expand, once again. (Developers are continuingly focusing on console, hence we are actually behind. If they had focused on PC, we'd be up to shooters with 15GBs data right now.)

We could, easily see 32GB games in the near future.

Dunno about you, but a 32GB game is going to take forever to download, as well as hog up bandwidth for awhile.

 

Go a generation later, with no advance in our standard internet across the US? without the minimum average Connection being 10MB or greater? 64-128GB games are going to be an absolute misery to download, when you could just save the hassle, and go and buy the game in the store. And storing those on a flash-card, isn't going to be that difficult, or expensive. (those lil things are going to replace discs imo.)

[SBoydW]

I see the next step being to some thing like USB or mem cards like SD said. We will go cloud at some point but not until companies make games streamable. I see game download being like the 8 track and streaming being like the casette. Game download would require the gamer to have to have terabytes and terabytes of capacity, with games sizes increasing, as opposed to streaming which wouldn't require a lot of storage capacity but simply a good Internet connection.

[SinisterDeath]

Ok you're right. That's because physical distribution still exists though.

The online prices get slashed pretty quickly in most cases and more than you ever see in stores.

Definitely true about price slashing online versus in stores. (Though in stores its a lot more complicated then on an online store)

 

Though to note, steam/gog better at price slashing than origin.

[SinisterDeath]

I see the next step being to some thing like USB or mem cards like SD said. We will go cloud at some point but not until companies make games streamable. I see game download being like the 8 track and streaming being like the casette. Game download would require the gamer to have to have terabytes and terabytes of capacity, with games sizes increasing, as opposed to streaming which wouldn't require a lot of storage capacity but simply a good Internet connection.

Double note, when I mentioned streamable games.on steam, I was meaning along the lines of, download 1GB, and able to "stream" the game, while it finishes downloading, versus the other kind of game streaming. "Cloud Gaming".

 

Oye these interchangeable terms are going to cause headaches.

[Nolder]

 

 

 

 

 

Even so, Steam and Origin show that it can be done.

But, even so, those aren't perfect.

 

But, even so, those aren't perfect.

 

But, even so, those aren't perfect.

 

those aren't perfect.

 

aren't perfect.

 

[Zanarky]

I think this is one of those topics where people read one thing bad and blow it way out of proportion.

 

For the always-on connectivity, we live in a world where everyone and everything is becoming connected. Everything is moving to digital; Wi-fi, Bluetooth, NFC. You have smartphones that are always connected. However, the XBOX One comes out with always-on connectivity and everyone gets super upset about it? I think if you can afford to buy the system and the games, you can afford a decent internet connection.

 

As for the used games, there's no great solution. Either the game resellers lose or the production companies lose. Yet who is more important? I would gladly see places like Gamestop and EB Games go down in flames if it meant that video game developers get the income they need to continue producing high quality titles. I buy every single game new anyway. I have bought both the physical discs, and done full game downloads, but I have never once put a used game into my 360.

 

The system itself looks impressive. They have made some significant and important upgrades that I think will make a big difference to a lot of people. Yet, these two issues are what's bringing everything down, and the damn thing isn't even out yet.

 

I think it's going to be a hit. Yet in the end, PS3 users will get PS4s, 360 users will get Ones, and the world keeps on spinning. As long as I get my Assassin's Creed, I don't care .

[SinisterDeath]

I think this is one of those topics where people read one thing bad and blow it way out of proportion.

 

For the always-on connectivity, we live in a world where everyone and everything is becoming connected. Everything is moving to digital; Wi-fi, Bluetooth, NFC. You have smartphones that are always connected. However, the XBOX One comes out with always-on connectivity and everyone gets super upset about it? I think if you can afford to buy the system and the games, you can afford a decent internet connection.

That depends on where you live.

If Iwanted a 10MB connection, I'm paying upwards of $90. Before I moved where I'm at now, it would have cost me $120 a month, plus $15,000 down.

 

So yea.....

 

As for the used games, there's no great solution. Either the game resellers lose or the production companies lose. Yet who is more important? I would gladly see places like Gamestop and EB Games go down in flames if it meant that video game developers get the income they need to continue producing high quality titles. I buy every single game new anyway. I have bought both the physical discs, and done full game downloads, but I have never once put a used game into my 360.

If only those pesky publishers didn't gobble up all the profits from the developers. That's why steams awesome, and origin sucks.

And resale, that's going to be a major issue in a few years. Its already illegal in some countries, to not be able to resell digital content.

 

The system itself looks impressive. They have made some significant and important upgrades that I think will make a big difference to a lot of people. Yet, these two issues are what's bringing everything down, and the damn thing isn't even out yet.

 

I think it's going to be a hit. Yet in the end, PS3 users will get PS4s, 360 users will get Ones, and the world keeps on spinning. As long as I get my Assassin's Creed, I don't care .

Ps4 and X1 both have nearly identical specs... that generation, will be won, by who has the more profitable exclusives.

[Silver]

Ps4 and X1 both have nearly identical specs... that generation, will be won, by who has the more profitable exclusives.

 

 

I'm really looking forward to that actually. The previous consoles match ups were always so different. I want to see who pulls it off when the specs are similar. And yeah exclusives are a big point, but things like usability also factor in. I really didn't like the PS3 dashboard and while the 360 one wasn't great, I preferred that one much more.

 

And god help either of them if one of them has a RROD equivalent.

 

Side note, I think both are going to be x86. I wonder if that means there might be a decent PC emulator for either.

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

Ps4 and X1 both have nearly identical specs... that generation, will be won, by who has the more profitable exclusives.

 

I'm really looking forward to that actually. The previous consoles match ups were always so different. I want to see who pulls it off when the specs are similar. And yeah exclusives are a big point, but things like usability also factor in. I really didn't like the PS3 dashboard and while the 360 one wasn't great, I preferred that one much more.

 

And god help either of them if one of them has a RROD equivalent.

 

Side note, I think both are going to be x86. I wonder if that means there might be a decent PC emulator for either.

I see x86 as better quality ports, in that its really just a matter of tweaking it to work on either, (spec wise). I honestly see this as a death blow to consoles over PC. (If the hypothesis is correct, because its native x86, and already made on the PC to begin with, it works on the PC. So every game, could potentially be released on the PC, Linix (or the gods help us, mac) with ease.)

 

IMO that is.

[SinisterDeath]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4/5

Arguably the most interesting thing in all of this is the dual-OS + hypervisor software setup behind the Xbox One. With the Windows kernel running alongside the Xbox OS, I wonder how much of a stretch it would be to one day bring the same setup to PCs. Well before the Xbox One hits the end of its life, mainstream PC APUs will likely be capable of delivering similar performance. Imagine a future Surface tablet capable of doing everything your Xbox One can do. That's really the trump card in all of this. The day Microsoft treats Xbox as a platform and not a console is the day that Apple and Google have a much more formidable competitor. Xbox One at least gets the software architecture in order, then we need PC/mobile hardware to follow suit and finally for Microsoft to come to this realization and actually make it happen. We already have the Windows kernel running on phones, tablets, PCs and the Xbox, now we just need the Xbox OS across all

 ^

Now see, if M$ were to release an "Xbox OS" that can work with any PC that meets the minimum requirements? They would.. Obliterate Sony.

And Steam would explode. (in a good way) 

[SinisterDeath]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/xbox-one-preowned-plan-revealed-6408850

 

Has been updated.

And I still can't like that idea.

Mostly because it kills the idea of borrowing a game to a friend. (Do they not know, this would kill future sales of games that would only be bought, upon people borrowing a game? This is something very prevalent among the youth crowd.

 

On the bright side... Since its installed to your system, and thus your account, if you lose the discs, you would still theoretically have access to your game. (unless the thief, sold it to a game stop, with your old code still in the case, invalidating your current game.. though that might help in finding who stole it...)

This should also mean, you should be able to insert the disc once, install, put it away. And be able to play 'disc-less' in the future. If not there goes any 'advantage' and thus, justification of requiring these codes in the first place.

 

If you could install the full game, and not be required to have the disc in the drive to play it, then obviously these codes would be needed so you couldn't just 'share' 1 game among 30 friends... Yet, if the disc is still required to play the game... then that justification goes out the window...

 

Now the question is.

Will they allow you to resell your digitally bought games, back to M$ or other digital retailers? (if they do, that's a MAJOR plus to them.)

[Mats Spare Hat]

Well hey, don't limit your gripe to the youth crowd; Average gamer's about 30 if you go by ESA demographics.

http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp

I mean contextually it'd be pretty irritating, to say the least, if a friend steps out for the weekend, and say his dorm-mate down the hall can't borrow Halo 23957027537, or whatever rendition they're on now, without having to pony up a fee.

It just seems like Microsoft's hell-bent on micromanaging peoples ability to play without being subject to Microsoft's wishes - Want to borrow a friends game, pay Microsoft. Want to play a pre-owned game, pay Microsoft a fee. Want to play online, Microsoft wants your money for that too. Want to be able to even play by yourself, you have to connect to a Microsoft server everyday. Want to resell your old games, you might just have to go through Microsoft too...and so forth

[Nolder]

I mean contextually it'd be pretty irritating, to say the least, if a friend steps out for the weekend, and say his dorm-mate down the hall can't borrow Halo 23957027537, or whatever rendition they're on now, without having to pony up a fee.

Halo 4 is out now, Halo 5 will be the next release. 

 

Unless they plan to do Halo 2 Anniversary then that will probably be next but there have been no announcements and at least a few denials.

Which ultimately means little considering they'd wait for E3 to announce it. But yeah, that's where we are in the Halo franchise right now.

[Lanthirrhos]

I want my gaming console to be about gaming. I don't want the extra BS. Imagine if the X-box got rid of the erroneous baggage and dedicated the left over money to making their console better for gaming.... It might be worth it then.

[Nolder]

 

Wouldn't this all be better as one thread? And where is the Wii U thread?

Console wars have started again, we can't be expected to argue about them all across multiple threads!

We don't speak about the Wii-U. Nope. Not at all.

Its not a real console anyways...

Don't we all agree on that?

 

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

Wouldn't this all be better as one thread? And where is the Wii U thread?

Console wars have started again, we can't be expected to argue about them all across multiple threads!

We don't speak about the Wii-U. Nope. Not at all.

Its not a real console anyways...

Don't we all agree on that?

 

 

BC with the Wii right?

Cause note, up till the ps4, ps3 was totally BC. (well it could do Ps1 even the later models, but no longer ps2.. But mine could.. PS4 lacks that, but whos to say the PS5 won't be BC?)

 

They also mentioned that the X1, might be BC with the original Xbox, if they do some software coding to do it.  (its x86)

[TylerRVG]

So Microsoft are allegedly paying Third-party developers not to show off their games for the PS4 at E3.

 

Wow. I mean, wow. I don't even... wow.

 

If this is true- Then this genuinely is a new low for Microsoft.

[SinisterDeath]

So Microsoft are allegedly paying Third-party developers not to show off their games for the PS4 at E3.

 

Wow. I mean, wow. I don't even... wow.

 

If this is true- Then this genuinely is a new low for Microsoft.

No different from M$ paying developers to delay PS3 games for 3 months within their contracts.