Perrin,,

[Gaul]

Hey guys im reading CoT chapter 6 scent of a dream....

 

 

But don't you guys find perring paranoid now? I mean Faile changed him he stated in the book *checks book*

 

Perrin had a strong sense he also had to be there (TG), was meant to be atleast, but if the Last Battle came soon, he would not be. He had ajob of work in front of him that he could not shrink-would not!- even for Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Ok wtf If he doesn't go to TG I think it was stated rand will lose TG. And if he loses TG no Faile...Not like any of us would really care. why can't he be like rand hit on them a few times and send her away? :P but really, hes way too into it all he gotta do really is convince measma to go to rand (by traveling) he brings him. Perrin asks rand if he can spare some aeil or something so he can track/get shaido better get faile and leave.

[Guest cwestervelt]

There are I believe 3 seperate occassions where Rand will certainly fail if Perrin is not pressent. It is never actually stated that Tarmon Gai'don is one of the three.

[icspots]

There are I believe 3 seperate occassions where Rand will certainly fail if Perrin is not pressent. It is never actually stated that Tarmon Gai'don is one of the three.

 

I believe it's two times. Dumai's Wells was one, and presumably Tarmon Gaidon is the second.

[Guest cwestervelt]

There are I believe 3 seperate occassions where Rand will certainly fail if Perrin is not pressent. It is never actually stated that Tarmon Gai'don is one of the three.

 

I believe it's two times. Dumai's Wells was one' date=' and presumably Tarmon Gaidon is the second.[/quote']

 

Presumably being the key word there. Everyone, including the characters in the story, essentially assume that one. Knowing what assuming does to you and me, and how RJ likes to throw curves, I wouldn't lay any money on it though.

 

As to it being two or three, that is of no real importance. The key is that at least one occasion is still to come. While I understand that Dumai's Wells is generally considered the first occassion and I won't argue against that, I would say Taim was the key to a successful rescue of Rand at Dumai's Wells, not Perrin. I don't even think Perrin managed to delay the Shaido or the Tar Valon Aes Sedai enough to make a difference.

[icspots]

Presumably being the key word there. Everyone' date=' including the characters in the story, essentially assume that one. Knowing what assuming does to you and me, and how RJ likes to throw curves, I wouldn't lay any money on it though.

 

As to it being two or three, that is of no real importance. The key is that at least one occasion is still to come. While I understand that Dumai's Wells is generally considered the first occassion and I won't argue against that, I would say Taim was the key to a successful rescue of Rand at Dumai's Wells, not Perrin. I don't even think Perrin managed to delay the Shaido or the Tar Valon Aes Sedai enough to make a difference.[/quote']

 

As to how many times.......

 

Lord of Chaos, Chapter 46

 

"When you two were together, I saw those fireflies and the darkness stronger than ever...But with the two of you in the same room, the fireflies were holding their own instead of being eaten faster than they can swarm, the way they do when you're alone. And there's something else I saw when you two were together. Twice he's going to have to be there, or you... If he's not, something bad will happen to you. Very bad. It will happen if he is not there, but nothing I saw said it won't because he is. It will be very bad, Rand."

[stoneface]

It will be very bad, Rand.

 

Where was Perrin during the fight at the manor at the end of KoD? Fewer total casualties at the manor, but Rand came away much worse than at Dumai's Wells. Rand has been in a few tough positions before, but (except at Falme and when he got sliced by Padan Fain) came out with at worst recoverable (Healable) wounds.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It will be very bad' date=' Rand.[/quote']

 

Where was Perrin during the fight at the manor at the end of KoD? Fewer total casualties at the manor, but Rand came away much worse than at Dumai's Wells. Rand has been in a few tough positions before, but (except at Falme and when he got sliced by Padan Fain) came out with at worst recoverable (Healable) wounds.

 

The key is that we don't know what would have happened had Perrin not been at Dumai's Wells. In my oppinion, Perrin didn't have a significant impact. Then again, it is entirely possible that the necessary action of Perrin's was something that seemed entirely inconsequential to the outcome. Maybe he lopped the head off the next Couladin or something and we just never knew about it. That is the annoying thing about that vision. We don't know when it will come true, where it will come true, what it will be, or even if it will be.

[Thor]

Women who can channel will hurt Rand.

 

I think Tuon will somehow manage to get the male adam on Rand.

 

Perrin will have to break him free.

 

(But where does that leave Mat?)

[Gaul]

Didn't Nyan/Elyane destroy that in tanchico... well not destroy but they got Domon or someone to go to the deepest point in the sea(can't remember where) and he throws it there so it can't be fished out. Oh not to sound rude but how will Tuon get the A'dam on Rand? When he meets her hes most likely to have guards/some AM so when they leash him Tuon will have fire shooting out of her eyes and nose :P

[Thor]

Not the wonder girls gave them wonderfully to Egeanin, who wonderfully gave it to Suroth, who wonderfully raised Egeanin to the Blood.

 

edit: i meant gave the adam to Egeanin.

[Gaul]

Wonder girls FTW!

[Leafburner]

My first post in quite some time. I agree that Perrin's impact at Dumais Wells may not be fully understood. Sure, Rand broke free and knelt Aes Sedai before him, but had perrin not been there he may have been tramped by an army, unable to defend himself because he was blinded by rage. regardless, the point is that Perrin WAS there, and as such Rand survived, as per the foretelling.

[stoneface]

So which are the two situations that RJ had in mind for Min's vision? How bad is "bad" in this case?

 

1. Loc: Kidnapping of Rand, Perrin not present in the room, leads to Dumai's Wells, Perrin involved, Rand rescued.

 

2. KoD: Meeting with the Seanchan turns out to be Semirhage's ambush, Perrin not there, Rand hurt badly.

 

3. aMoL: TG???

 

4. Rand's capture in Far Madding? No permanent injuries there.

 

5. Some other scene with Perrin present or absent? Already published or not yet published?

 

Too many possibilities. It's pretty vague anyway, and Perrin has NOT been kept close, especially while he was chasing the Shaido. I don't know if even after we can read aMoL if we will be sure.

[cannon]

The key is that we don't know what would have happened had Perrin not been at Dumai's Wells. In my oppinion' date=' Perrin didn't have a significant impact. Then again, it is entirely possible that the necessary action of Perrin's was something that seemed entirely inconsequential to the outcome.[/quote']

 

As you said, we'll never know for sure, but I think he played a significant role. He was the leader of the rescue attempt after all. Who knows how the rescue would have gone otherwise?

 

What would have happened if the party from Cairhein met up with the Aes Sedai without Perrin? The Aes Sedai attempted to take over but Perrin refused to let them. That action alone probably held the rescue party together and kept them as one effective unit. The Wise Ones were obviously pretty pissed at the Aes Sedai, so who knows what kind of in-fighting would have happened otherwise?

 

Also, they knew where Galina's party was headed, but the Wolves provided some very valuable recon that they would not have otherwise gotten. Not to mention the wolves pretty much told Perrin when to attack. And it certainly seemed like they were effective in the battle as well, whereas they never would have showed without Perrin.

[Daruya]

Actually, I don't think Egeanin willingly give the male adam to Suroth. They were on their way to drop it in the deepest part of the ocean when Bayle's ship was boarded. I believe he resisted (remember, he was made property and Egeanin subsequently bought him). I think Egeanin "gifted" Suroth with the male adam to probably keep from being made property herself.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Actually' date=' I don't think Egeanin willingly give the male adam to Suroth. They were on their way to drop it in the deepest part of the ocean when Bayle's ship was boarded. I believe he resisted (remember, he was made property and Egeanin subsequently bought him). I think Egeanin "gifted" Suroth with the male adam to probably keep from being made property herself.[/quote']

 

Egeanin essentially handed it over. Her PoV raises questions if she ever intended to do anything other than turn it in.

 

Winter's Heart, Chapter 21: A Matter of Property

Stubborn man that he [Domon] was, he scowled and scrubbed at his short beard irritable. "I do still say we could have dropped it all over the side," he muttered. "That seeker had no proof I did have it aboard."

 

"Seekers do no need proof," she said, mocking his accent. "Seekers do find proof, and the finding do be painful." If he was reduced to bringing up what even he had conceded long since, maybe she was finally nearing the end of the whole thing. "In any case, Bayle, you have already admitted that there is no harm in Suroth having that collar and bracelets. They can't be put on him unless someone gets close enough, and I've heard nothing that suggests anyone has or will." She refrained from adding that it would not matter if someone did. Bayle was not really familiar with even the versions of the Prophesies they had on this side of the World Sea, byt he was adamant that none mentioned the necessity of the Dragon Reborn kneeling to the Crystal Throne. It might prove necessary for him to be fitted with this male a'dam, but Bayle would never see it. "What is done is done, Bayle. If the Light shines on us, we will live long in the service of the Empire. Now, you know this city, so you say. What is there interesting to see or do?

 

Addition: The thing about that bolded statement is that Egeanin believes the male A'dam may be necessary to make the Seanchan version of the prophesies come true. It brings all her other justifications into question.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Indeed, Egeanin often seems confused herself as to where her loyalties/intentions lie, except now, to Bayle personally.