[Basic] Jaws: Game Over - Town Wins

[John E. Kelley]

Just be like me and don't have a meta. Other than drunken.

[dapianoplay3r]

You have a meta

[John E. Kelley]

Nah.

[dapianoplay3r]

Lies, I know your meta secrets

[John E. Kelley]

I'd be curious after the game to hear what it is then.

[Darthe]

I get your meta Ishy =p you know i do

[John E. Kelley]

Seriously, I wasn't even aware that I had one, at least one that changes depending on alignment. I try to do my best to stay consistent regardless of my role or team, but seems you guys are saying that I have a tell of some kind? I just to try to usually keep it light and playful.

[Darthe]

Yeah, I can show you how I got it on JN after this game =p  Remember how quickly I picked you up there?

[Vambram]

It appears that dapianoplay3r is willing to go along with the current lynch vote against him. 

 

For now, I VOTE dap.

 

 Now that I am back from the vacation my wife and I took to Branson, Missouri, I will become more active in this mafia game. 

[dapianoplay3r]

God slowest lynch ever

 

Might as well make use of it

 

So Darthe

 

Starts with a penis joke. Not relevant

Then he cuts chuckles off after the "that's interesting post" I discuss that in the chuckles case

(Darthes post

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/81419-basic-jaws-day-2/?p=2883531)

 

Then we get Basel starting to be weird

 

Unvote.

 

 

I get the vote.  Beat the grass etc.  I don't get this play right here.  Worse still is that he tries to explain it in a sentence after.

Back tracking. A common trait in guilty players. I agree with Darthe on this

Then he says  

I get that, but it still reads as incredibly weird.  Of course, town basel makes mistakes through not caring for self preservation and scum basel makes mistakes through attempting to stay neutral and thus being out of his playstyle.

A bit odd since I agreed with him but to this point I agree with Darthe and was leaning town on him.

 

Then we argue about the logistics of sharks biting planes in the air

 

He then asks for the mafia team picks. He disappears for a while after this and in that gap all the chuckles twitchiness starts

 

 

Technically, everyone should try to be super townie. The difference is that Basel looked fake doing it.

 

This is Darthes arrival back. Chuckles stops with all his twitching and starts discussing this with Darthe

Darthe gave him a continent out wouldn't you say?

 

 

Most of the times people who are "super townie" are the one who turn out to be scum, atleast those who are pros, and know their own meta's

  

That is ridiculously illogical.  You play to an ultimate goal, either to get all others killed or to weed out the bad ones and kill them.  Anything that conflicts with that goal is wrong.  Townsmembers should want to look super townie, as should mafia.  When this is done effectively the ones who are motivated to it by self preservation are evident.

 

If everyone is playing "super townie"

 

You know who is dreadfully boring?  All of you.  Post more.

Agreed. Post more people

  

Okay, think of it in opposing terms.  Does any member of the town have a legitimate reason to appear anti-town, barring a role that dictates that play or an ulterior motive such as beating the grass?  No.  Um actually yes. it means the mafia wont NK them cos they think they might get a lynch on that person. its a tactic to stay alive longer Does mafia have any reason to ever appear anti-town barring the same?  No.  However, if we see a trend in each individual as attempting to appear a particular way then it creates disparity for those who are not acting to their true nature.  Cognitive dissonance, aka they inevitably will do something that doesn't make perfect sense to their false motive because it will dispute their true goals.  They are forced to activity.

 

You throw out words like cognitive and expect people just to buy it. All the mafia have to do is roll with the false motives. In a game were it is not just two choices that's really easy to do

They can just give a more "pro town" choice for lynch and boom, lynch avoided without looking like mafia (I know if that player dies later they look more mafia then cos of linking but I've steered town lynches away from town to other town before just to create a fake link. It's not hard to do)

Plus they could just bus their teammate and get town cred for that

 

Death has a place in the game, indisputably.  Allowing yourself to be killed and pushing for it are different however.  And I think that what I am saying about individuals acting town is being misrepresented.  

 

The town has a limited knowledge base.  They need to play to the best of their ability to achieve a scum lynch.  Thus doesn't mean acting a way that any individual isn't or being disingenuous.  It also doesn't mean that you can post willy nilly like people are want to do lately because "who cares if you die, you're a townie?"  That shiz wastes a ton of time.  Mafia should be the only ones that have to work at looking town.  The rest should simply work at not looking anti-town.

 

Note: This also means you don't advocate lynches because people are wrong.  People are wrong all the time, its not good foundation for a lynch unless they're stupid.

 

At this point I still feel like Darthe is ok with a Basel lynch. He suddenly starts to flip as the train gets bigger

As for town working to not look anti town. That suggests if you don't try you will look anti town. Also mafia working to look town, considering town have to try to look town too then there isn't much of a distinction between misguided town and mafia.

I dunno I always seem to disagree with your theories

 

 

Agreed good sir.  Lets see, scum doesn't like to be the lowest poster but on D1 that doesn't necessarily matter.  But who in the inactive register looks bad upon review..?

 

I think Vambram, Hybrid, and Lenlo would be interesting choices for a scum team but scum needs someone more active than hybrid so it likely means... vam, hybrid, ___?  

 

Just conjecture but the point here is that in this debacle with basel I find basel to be least scummy and hybrid to be the most so.  I also am not quite certain why vambrams name stuck but it did.

 

Ahh this post.

Strange that Darthe picks hybrid who we know flipped town, plus Vam who hadn't actually posted anything of use you (his first real game related post comes directly after this)

Then Darthe says he isn't certain why Vam stuck out, well I'm not either, he has said literally nothing at this point in the game

Plus now Vam is setting up for me to flip town

"For now I vote Dap"

Yea way out and everything.

Methinks Darthe needed to include a teammates incase he got lynched

 

Also Basel seems to of vanished off his list now. Feels like he doesn't want to be part of a townie lynch (which backfired a little when Basel flipped 3rd Party lol)

 

These last couple of days, I have been stuck in an airport while trying to fly back home from Tobyhanna, Pennsylvania. I haven't had a lot of internet access while in the airport due to laptop's battery having issues. However, I am home now and I shall participate more often than I have been. 

 

I have a FOS towards Hybrid because there shouldn't be votes and/or unvotes without an explanation to go with said actions. So, lets see if the heat can be turned up a bit upon him and see what happens.

 

VOTE Hybrid 

 

So there's Vams post. First real game related post, after Darthe has said he is standing out.

Strange how Vam appears after someone mentions him

 

 

vote no lynch

 

I'm bored with this day already and we can get cop views without the loss of a townie so long as we no lynch.  Still not convinced that the 3 way argument isn't town on town thus this is the current best option.  Cop should already have a result from N0.

  

So now he pushes the No Lynch. Something I don't think he ever expected to gain any traction but something showy to be seen staying away from Basel.

Also the Night Zero thing. What a load of BS, there is no Night 0.

I know he denys it but it only makes sense to be fishing to me, because he is saying something outrageouss about a role expecting a correction. Corrections will help locate a cop

Yea it was fishing Darthe, you know it well as I

 

 

 

There was a dawn phase, no night 0 Darthe...

Wasn't there?

But that was very close to fishing for you

 

 

Even more so since his vote wasn't even real.

 

15. All votes and unvotes must be bolded and in Red to be accepted, if you want to change your vote, previous votes must be unvoted first. you may vote and unvote as many times as it pleases you.

 

This isn't sitting well with me.  Mostly the first sentence, why the tacked on agreement?

 

In any case, Vote No Lynch

Then he throws out suspicioun on Peace while he has the chance. Nice bit of distancing there

 

 

Now the best part bout the Basel lynch

Yeah, Basel isn't making sense there. Vote no lynch

 

Lol see on post #109

(Quoted above with my blue text in it)

You said that not making sense if what happens when people do it your way and reveal mafia. So now that it actually happens you mention it but stick with your no lynch

You really didn't want to be associated with Basels flip did you?

 

 

Why?  What do you have to gain from a flip that you couldn't gain from a cop view?  Are you confident enough in your reads as they are?

 

Yet another push at fishing

Prompting a cop to reveal tomorrow.

Darthe the cop could of been killed N1. Then we would of had no cop and no info from D1

No lynch makes no sense. (By your own definition not a good thing to be making)

 

No lynch was not a waste but Basel it is, we will see.

 

You were so confident lol

His flip really did mess up your plans I wager

 

I actually don't mind this.  Anti-town and info on another interest player.  So, since we know that scum wasn't working with either lets see what pops up on a reread.

Don't mind this? Would you of been ok with him still being alive to roam around killing? Ugh

You must of got a shock to post somehthing this silly

 

Are you two attempting to link me to an SK?  Amusing if so.

 

Regardless, this is more beneficial than I anticipated.  Personally I thought Basel would flip town this game, thus I didn't want a kill.  I stand behind that decision at the time it was made, though in hindsight this is better.

 

That's why the town is majority vote, and not simply me

So going against your own ideas to distance from what you thought would be a town lynch isn't scummy at all?

You aren't working hard enough to look town Darthe

 

 

Then Darthe joins in on the Rand inactivity hating, Chuckles follows with the Vam stuff

He then defends chuckles a bit

 

 

 

 

so BG your voting darthe because he didnt want to lynch anyone D1?

 

If he is, do you disagree? Because I find it to be a very valid reason.

 

On what premises?  No lynch is as valid an option as lynching in the right circumstances and Basel was not putting off scum reads.  I would rather not kill people I think town, wouldn't you agree?

 

You're.. interesting this game.  Poking about with very little of the casework and disregard expected of your usual play.  But more on that later.

Actually Basel was putting out scum reads. You mention them yourself

Setting up for an Ishy lynch later, nice

  

 

 

so BG your voting darthe because he didnt want to lynch anyone D1?

 

 

Essentially, yes.

 

Lynching is usually town's only method of attack at mafia. No Lynch basically gives mafia a high chance at a free kill. He pocked and prodded saying the Cop could help so we wouldn't be so blind but that's just role fishing. Also, avoiding a lynch can be a distancing move for someone who wants to stay off a town (or SK) lynch to get you to trust them more.

 

Each of these reasons individually might not add up to much, but when combined deserves a vote.

 

Let me get this straight.. you think that in an instance where we have no evidence that making a hasty decision based on a three way argument that could have went anywhere was a good plan?  Furthermore you believe that recognition of the idea that we have a cop is roll fishing?  Their is a clear difference between looking for a cop and recognizing that one almost certainly exists, to argue otherwise it to be willfully blind.  

 

Ishy, I don't actually believe you right now.  That reads very much to me like someone looking for a reason to place a vote.

  

It wasn't particularly hasty. You and the I and others had been mentioning Basels scum tells since the start. As for the lynch going anywhere, well it looked like it was going mafia ward but you knew it wasn't didnt you. It didn't seem like a random lynch choice to me. Seemed pretty good actually and low and behold we got a 3rd party

 

Do you know what fishing means?

 

Here, let me give you a guide.

 

If I ask for results: Fishing.

  well you did say the cop would be able to provide the same amount of info D2 as a lynch would of

If I mention that someone is likely to have results: Not fishing.

 

Recognition of something: Not fishing.

 

Attempting to weed out answers: Fishing

  you suggested there was a Night 0

Acknowledgement of a role in the game: Not fishing.

 

Murky zone: requesting results or requesting someone to use their action

 

 

 

Okay, now that we have had that lesson in mafia basics children shall we get back to the game?

You were fishing. Be a man and admit it

 

  

Night.  Night 0 is the same as N1 minus a number one and a flip.  75% chance of it being a town flip in general.  Label it as you wish but in the real world it isn't fishing because you want it to be.

  

Except that N0 doesn't exist in this game. So they are entirely different

It's like me saying the lynch results from D0

Reasons for not voting someone that you case:

 

You want other reactions

You want their response

They don't warrant a vote yet 

You intend to do more research/casework

you are mafia playing it safe

  I'm doomed anyway so you should know my meta. I don't vote people until they have had a chance to speak or I am sure they are mafia

 

I am certain that others exist but of the five quick things I can think of only one of them is mafia related and it is a pretty bad play for mafia to make, thus dap likely didn't vote for another reason. I can assure you I did it cos it's how I always play, it's polite not to vote until they have a chance to counter your case

 

However, when you have perhaps the best case made all game stacked against you and you reply to it with "If you lynch me, I could be a PR or I could be mafia, who knows?" you're literally begging to be lynched.

 

No PR worth their salt would do this, so he clearly isn't a PR because if he was then the mafia would know he isn't mafia and he just now associated himself with having a role.  Thus: he gets a vote for being bad at this.  Very very bad.

  

Yea silly chuckles. However in light of recent events I have to move him to forth on my list with Peace, Darthe, and Vam ahead of him

[csarmi]

unvote Vote Player

[Vambram]

Its time for me to log offline, and get some sleep. Tomorrow, I won't be back online and able to post until Saturday evening when I return home from my Army National Guard duty in Jefferson City, Mo.

[lolguy26]

vote dap

 

You always case and almost never vote as scum don't you dap

[dapianoplay3r]

I do it as town too

 

But I did vote this game remember

[lolguy26]

lol yeah, ftr you still havent told me my town meta

 

(and this game is going to get boring and a bit more inactive)

[dapianoplay3r]

Why should I? I can use it against you your next game lol

[lolguy26]

touche :P

[lolguy26]

anyone seen len?

[lolguy26]

Mods, anyone home?

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Almost. Will get a VC up ASAP. Walking home.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Deadline:   Saturday May 4th @ 12pm CST, 1 pm EST, 6 pm GMT or when hammer has been reached.  10 alive, 6 to hammer

 

Vote Count

 

  Darthe (1): BG

 

  Player (6): Peace, Darthe, Ishy, Vam, csarmi, Chuckles

 

No vote: Lenlo, Darthe, Vam, Peace, csarmi, Player, Chuckles, Ishy, Rand

 

Chuckles with the hammer. That's a lynch. Player is now dead. Scene coming up ASAP.

[Red2111]

scene will come on Monday,  been sick since Friday, dunno if it was something from Red Lobster or getting the crude everyone else has had.  Bubba's been feeling nasty too, but we had the same thing at Red Lobster *shrugs*

 

 

 

Player, Captain Paul F. Watson, Vanilla Mafia  has been lynched.

 

 

it is now night. May the 4th be with you all

 

 

 

Deadline: Monday May 5th @ 12pm CST

 

 

 

[Darthe]

Cool, now we can progress.  Hey Peace, relax brah.

[dapianoplay3r]

Longest death ever

[lolguy26]

so whats next?