[Advanced] The Dresden Files Mafia - Game Over - Ed loses, Verbal wins

[John McClane]

 

 

I'm okay with lynching lenlo based on the cases made. I'm also leaving my vote where it is unless a consensus forms on lenlo.

Need I remind everyone that peace was role fishing, then explicitly asking for role reveals, then casing and voting the cop, then trying to pry info out of the cop to out townies? I again say we lynch peace.

As for views, I say Ed view hybrid. jif view Turin. Tina kill rand.

Decent points. Wasn't it Peace who called for a mass reveal and then John stepped in and said no? Or was that someone else?

 

I called for a mass reveal. Snow said no. I will try to find the reactions.

[John McClane]

We should honesty do a mass character reveal.

Bait ^^^

 

 

 

Is there any need for him to say so?

We can need pretty sure he didn't view anyone he is going after

 

Well, I'd expect the scum team to take him out tonight.  If he can confirm another town player and we do actually have 2 town reporters than this game can be over pretty quickly.  We basically have 3 cops.  (at least 2). 

 

Eh, I really think one of the reporters is scum.  Unless the scum team is ridiculously rolled up.

 

 

 

>I´m Kincaid.

I´m town vig with 50 % to succeed.

I killed Darthe N1 and Vambram N2.

I can holster if I want to.

I´m willing to take suggestions but will decide by myself who/if I want to kill.

 

There you go. I have spent some time giving Verbal work. :p I will read more tonight.

 

-_-

 

 

Verbal thinks 1 of the 2 reporters is scum. Now he likes my plan to leave them both alive... also bait.

 

No mass character claims.

 

Here is John Snow, for the 3rd time this game cramping my strategy, posting this before I could really get any responses.

 

 

 

 

 

Is there any need for him to say so?

We can need pretty sure he didn't view anyone he is going after

 

Well, I'd expect the scum team to take him out tonight.  If he can confirm another town player and we do actually have 2 town reporters than this game can be over pretty quickly.  We basically have 3 cops.  (at least 2). 

 

Eh, I really think one of the reporters is scum.  Unless the scum team is ridiculously rolled up.

 

 

 

>I´m Kincaid.

I´m town vig with 50 % to succeed.

I killed Darthe N1 and Vambram N2.

I can holster if I want to.

I´m willing to take suggestions but will decide by myself who/if I want to kill.

 

There you go. I have spent some time giving Verbal work. :p I will read more to

night.

 

-_-

 

Which is why I put the "at least 2" in my cop comments. 

 

Ape..are you a sheriff or cop?

 

 

Fishing ^^^

 

 

No mass character claims.

 

 

hmmm...looks to rules section...looks back at the mod...looks to the rules section...looks back at that mod.

 

Supporting it? Not really sure what this reaction meant, tbh.

 

 

Invite, Vote Lenlo

 

I'm down with a mass character reveal. The only concern I have is that there is probably another form of protective role out there and it has a possibility of flipping that. I'm not sure what the odds are of there being a protective role, though. I do feel it's likely with having 3 possibly 4 investigative roles in the game.

 

What are your thoughts on that?

 

Supports mass character reveal, while pointing out that it could surface protective roles, but still supports it. Okay.

 

For the record the 2 reporters could also surface the protective roles, or any other of value. 

 

Ed was the only one that actually bit on the mass claim.

 

Vote Ed

 

With the amount of town power roles seemingly in the game there are really two options -- either someone's lying or scum are super juiced up.  Considering the reporters have had their reports every night and Tina is supposedly town accounting for the other two kills (not sure if I believe that, but anyways) I tend to agree with Verb that someone is lying.

 

^^^ Another reason why I can't help but connect JIF to AVM to Verbal, with Nolder and Peace on the fringe of that circle. 

[Nolder]

Oh it was you? That's fine then I guess. Dunno why I thought it was Peace.

[John McClane]

There's a big time game of who will blink first going on... 

 

I have 2 working theories. 

 

1. JIF is scum, and is connected in some way to some combination of AVM, Verbal, Peace and Nolder, probably doesn't include all of them but some of them are in that mix, if JIF is scum. Tina is a Vig, and Ed, Darthe and I are 3 investigative roles. 

• Verb, AVM and JIF are all rolling out the "say nothing and the townies casing you will make themselves look wrong eventually" strategy, which is scum 101. JIF does it almost every time he's scum and I'm onto him. I have further reason to support this specific theory because there are some behind the scenes things going on where JIF and AVM have gone equally silent.
• If JIF has gone dark not because he's scum but because of John Snow screwing something up, I wouldn't be surprised. Mod interference (this would actually make it the 4th time this game for me).
• AVM came here to try something new. He played super-scummy on D1, and then went dark. Pretty routine play for a Godfather prospect. Do enough to get viewed, then get off the grid. I have a hard time believing that completely shutting up was the "something new" AVM wanted to try out here on DM. Note, AVM did pop up to defend himself for "non-participation" today when called out for it. Come to think of it, so did Verbal.
• Peace has been blatantly working to extract information about roles rather than scum hunting. He did buy into my strategy of leaving both Ed and JIF alive, so did Verbal. Again, that plan was proposed as part trap - part viable. I'd personally rather lynch JIF and do away with this theory, or confirm it.
• Nolder blatantly worked to keep JIF alive on D2, and on D3 is distancing from him. Nobody needs this explained again, I hope. His reasoning is garbage, if he bothers to explain it. 
• Verbal seems to be casting a vote based upon some information he shouldn't be privy to. He randomly settled on Rand, with no explanation. I think he was tipped off. Verbal led off today setting the "one of Ed or JIF is scum" agenda. Peace fed into it a little, and AVM definitely sold it. In fact, AVM had nothing to say but that. But now Verb and Peace both bought into the keep Ed and JIF alive plan. The willingness of people to support that idea makes me think one of them is a source of misinformation.
• JIF was never NKed after revealing on D2. Yet, we see Peace explaining that he "expects scum to kill" me tonight. So, he's firm in that logic, firm enough to grill me for multiple pages to get my info before I theoretically die tonight... BUT he never once questions why JIF wasn't shot on N2? That's a HUGE ping.
• There's more to this theory... and I don't expect I've got all of them in that bunch, but if JIF is scum, then I would almost guarantee that 1-2 of them is scum with him. 
• Verbal basically wifomed me about viewing JIF, he knows if he says "do it" then I'll have to question his motives for directing my investigation like that. Very scummy move. Very.
• Best thing to do if anyone wants to get behind this theory, IMO, is lynch JIF, Peace or Verbal.

 

2. The above theory is false, and the scum is split up amongst people like Rand, Lenlo, and some others. 

• There's plenty to point back to if you want to indict some of these guys, and perhaps some of them are scum AND theory 1 is correct too.
• In particular Lenlo. He seemed to know more than he should when I bluffed about viewing Tina. Hybrid and Rand also balked at that bluff, like they knew.
• Rand was setting up the next lynch, as explained. Problem is I've seen stupid townies do that too, but usually it's about a 75% accurate scum tell when I see it.

 

The issue with theory 2 is it's too easy. If Darthe, Ed, JIF and I are all investigative roles, AND my information is passed off to ensure it's not lost when I die... then scum really never stood a chance. Add to that Tina as a vigilante, and multiple protections for the town? So far we've seen a mafia goon, and a roleblocking survivor, who is as much a threat to scum as he is to town. 

 

The moderator in me says there's no way that both Ed and JIF can be investigative roles, and I have serious questions about Tina being a vigilante too. Especially with the 50% effective thing conflicting with the character data.

 

Long story, short. I want to lynch someone to either prove or disprove theory 1.

[Turin Turambar]

Hi. sorry I'm so late. Long work day.

 

First off, Yes I flat out missed that Ape had stated a TOWN view of AVM. I may have missed an entire page due to my goofy phone. If anyone can point me to it I would be appreciative. AVM was the only one revealed I am assuming? Feel pretty dumb for missing that. 

 

So that means that Ed and Booboo each have one view that is at least semi confirmed. since AVM has been viewed by two investigative type roles.

 

I have a question about the reporters: I think  Ape stated that even if they are killed during the night their investigation results would still appear in the paper. Is This standard? I have never played in a game with a reporter so have no experience to go from. If that is the case then to kill one during the night makes some sense to verify them as town and to still get the last view they have made. My biggest concern about this is trusting Tina to actually take the shot. In a recent post you quoted her reveal. Town vig with a 50% chance of success. Now I have my doubts about this claim in general and the wiki info that was provided seems to contradict the claim. I believe it said that Kincaid was a mercenary that never missed. Now both of those things seem odd in fitting in with the claim. A mercenary is more in line with a SK than a vig IMO, and the 50% chance thing is troubling on two fronts. One If she is actually telling the truth then it is more than likely the shot will be unsuccessful as she is 2 for 2 on a 50% chance. The probability is leaning toward a failure tonight. But more troubling is that if she isn't really a 50% vig but is actually a 100% SK or some sort of special mafia killer and Booboo is on her team then she could just claim to have missed. Then we are missing results from one person (Tina) and on another (Booboo).

[Nolder]

Nolder blatantly worked to keep JIF alive on D2, and on D3 is distancing from him. Nobody needs this explained again, I hope. His reasoning is garbage, if he bothers to explain it. 

You know, I don't usually go around after the game and rub it in when someone is wrong because hey it's just a game and it's a game where there's limited information available which leads to wild theories. But in this case I'm going to do it and I'm going to enjoy it because not only are you dead wrong but the fact that you are the town cop and you refuse to even entertain the possibility that I wanted Ishy dead and that it had nothing to do with "keeping Jif alive" is just bad play.

 

2. The above theory is false, and the scum is split up amongst people like Rand, Lenlo, and some others. 

Granted you've worded this kind of a ambiguously so it could really cover the rest of the game but assuming you actually have specific people in mind when you say "some others" what are you going to think if both theories are wrong? 

 

Long story, short. I want to lynch someone to either prove or disprove theory 1.

Seems simple to me. If you just want info Verbal is probably the way to go. If you're ready to go for the gusto and net some scum vote for Jif and let's start to get this game over with. Either way is fine with me right now.

[Tyler Glembo]

Hi. sorry I'm so late. Long work day.

 

First off, Yes I flat out missed that Ape had stated a TOWN view of AVM. I may have missed an entire page due to my goofy phone. If anyone can point me to it I would be appreciative. AVM was the only one revealed I am assuming? Feel pretty dumb for missing that.

 

So that means that Ed and Booboo each have one view that is at least semi confirmed. since AVM has been viewed by two investigative type roles.

 

I have a question about the reporters: I think Ape stated that even if they are killed during the night their investigation results would still appear in the paper. Is This standard? I have never played in a game with a reporter so have no experience to go from. If that is the case then to kill one during the night makes some sense to verify them as town and to still get the last view they have made. My biggest concern about this is trusting Tina to actually take the shot. In a recent post you quoted her reveal. Town vig with a 50% chance of success. Now I have my doubts about this claim in general and the wiki info that was provided seems to contradict the claim. I believe it said that Kincaid was a mercenary that never missed. Now both of those things seem odd in fitting in with the claim. A mercenary is more in line with a SK than a vig IMO, and the 50% chance thing is troubling on two fronts. One If she is actually telling the truth then it is more than likely the shot will be unsuccessful as she is 2 for 2 on a 50% chance. The probability is leaning toward a failure tonight. But more troubling is that if she isn't really a 50% vig but is actually a 100% SK or some sort of special mafia killer and Booboo is on her team then she could just claim to have missed. Then we are missing results from one person (Tina) and on another (Booboo).

Turin, she is claiming 50/50. If that is true previous nights kills don't change the probability for tonight's kill. Her kill tonight would also be 50/50 so it isn't "more likely to miss".

[Hybrid]

The probability is leaning toward a failure tonight.

 

This is slightly unrelated, but technically speaking that's not true.  The probability would still be 50% for tonight's NK.

[Hybrid]

Ninja'd. 

[John McClane]

 

Nolder blatantly worked to keep JIF alive on D2, and on D3 is distancing from him. Nobody needs this explained again, I hope. His reasoning is garbage, if he bothers to explain it. 

You know, I don't usually go around after the game and rub it in when someone is wrong because hey it's just a game and it's a game where there's limited information available which leads to wild theories. But in this case I'm going to do it and I'm going to enjoy it because not only are you dead wrong but the fact that you are the town cop and you refuse to even entertain the possibility that I wanted Ishy dead and that it had nothing to do with "keeping Jif alive" is just bad play.

 

>2. The above theory is false, and the scum is split up amongst people like Rand, Lenlo, and some others. 

Granted you've worded this kind of a ambiguously so it could really cover the rest of the game but assuming you actually have specific people in mind when you say "some others" what are you going to think if both theories are wrong? 

 

Long story, short. I want to lynch someone to either prove or disprove theory 1.

Seems simple to me. If you just want info Verbal is probably the way to go. If you're ready to go for the gusto and net some scum vote for Jif and let's start to get this game over with. Either way is fine with me right now.

 

 

 

1. Stalling a train without information to justify it is bad play, by you. All I'm doing is pointing at your bad logic, and questioning it. I think I've said it 's possible you'd be this illogical as town. So if JIF flips scum, you still planning on pointing and laughing at me? I dare you to. I'll put you right in your frakking place, Nolderp. With a quickness.

 

2. Both theories can't be wrong. I'm basically saying that I've got a theory about JIF being scum and the nucleus of some shenanigans that are outside the bounds of how we are imagining this setup... OR he's not, and scum is a mixed bag.

 

3. I want to vote JIF. For all the reasons I've stated, including getting a better take on what you are up to.

[John McClane]

Statistically, Turin is wrong.

 

However, I feel like that was a somewhat townish post by him. Anyone else get that?

[John McClane]

Oh it was you? That's fine then I guess. Dunno why I thought it was Peace.

 

 

Yeah, it was me. Think about the circumstances. We just came out of a night phase where only scum died. That means their shot got blocked. I know I have some protection. I assumed they shot at me since I stupidly tipped I was cop on D2. I figured any suggestion that would give scum a window into how I am protected, might get them to stick their necks out.

 

Peace bit. He bit even more when I said my results won't die with me. I mean hell, he wanted to know who the deputy is!!! 

 

I'm just miffed taht John Snow blew up my trap before it netted more.

[Hybrid]

Hi. sorry I'm so late. Long work day.

 

First off, Yes I flat out missed that Ape had stated a TOWN view of AVM. I may have missed an entire page due to my goofy phone. If anyone can point me to it I would be appreciative. AVM was the only one revealed I am assuming? Feel pretty dumb for missing that. 

 

So that means that Ed and Booboo each have one view that is at least semi confirmed. since AVM has been viewed by two investigative type roles.

 

I have a question about the reporters: I think  Ape stated that even if they are killed during the night their investigation results would still appear in the paper. Is This standard? I have never played in a game with a reporter so have no experience to go from. If that is the case then to kill one during the night makes some sense to verify them as town and to still get the last view they have made. My biggest concern about this is trusting Tina to actually take the shot. In a recent post you quoted her reveal. Town vig with a 50% chance of success. Now I have my doubts about this claim in general and the wiki info that was provided seems to contradict the claim. I believe it said that Kincaid was a mercenary that never missed. Now both of those things seem odd in fitting in with the claim. A mercenary is more in line with a SK than a vig IMO, and the 50% chance thing is troubling on two fronts. One If she is actually telling the truth then it is more than likely the shot will be unsuccessful as she is 2 for 2 on a 50% chance. The probability is leaning toward a failure tonight. But more troubling is that if she isn't really a 50% vig but is actually a 100% SK or some sort of special mafia killer and Booboo is on her team then she could just claim to have missed. Then we are missing results from one person (Tina) and on another (Booboo).

 

Overall, though, I mostly agree with this post -- however, I doubt at this point that Tina is on a team with BooBoo based on her killing Vambram.  But yes, if her target does not die tonight, it does not validate her role claim.

[Nolder]

 

 

Nolder blatantly worked to keep JIF alive on D2, and on D3 is distancing from him. Nobody needs this explained again, I hope. His reasoning is garbage, if he bothers to explain it. 

You know, I don't usually go around after the game and rub it in when someone is wrong because hey it's just a game and it's a game where there's limited information available which leads to wild theories. But in this case I'm going to do it and I'm going to enjoy it because not only are you dead wrong but the fact that you are the town cop and you refuse to even entertain the possibility that I wanted Ishy dead and that it had nothing to do with "keeping Jif alive" is just bad play.

 

>>2. The above theory is false, and the scum is split up amongst people like Rand, Lenlo, and some others. 

lockquote>

Granted you've worded this kind of a ambiguously so it could really cover the rest of the game but assuming you actually have specific people in mind when you say "some others" what are you going to think if both theories are wrong? 

 

>Long story, short. I want to lynch someone to either prove or disprove theory 1.

Seems simple to me. If you just want info Verbal is probably the way to go. If you're ready to go for the gusto and net some scum vote for Jif and let's start to get this game over with. Either way is fine with me right now.

 

 

 

1. Stalling a train without information to justify it is bad play, by you. All I'm doing is pointing at your bad logic, and questioning it. I think I've said it 's possible you'd be this illogical as town. So if JIF flips scum, you still planning on pointing and laughing at me? I dare you to. I'll put you right in your frakking place, Nolderp. With a quickness.

 

2. Both theories can't be wrong. I'm basically saying that I've got a theory about JIF being scum and the nucleus of some shenanigans that are outside the bounds of how we are imagining this setup... OR he's not, and scum is a mixed bag.

 

3. I want to vote JIF. For all the reasons I've stated, including getting a better take on what you are up to.

 

1. Fair enough but call it what it is. Assuming it's a scum agenda right from the get go is also bad play.

 

2. Not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Are you trying to say that there may be a small scum team and a bunch of 3rd parties?

 

3. Then let's do it. Unvote Vote Booboo

[Nolder]

 

Oh it was you? That's fine then I guess. Dunno why I thought it was Peace.

 

 

Yeah, it was me. Think about the circumstances. We just came out of a night phase where only scum died. That means their shot got blocked. I know I have some protection. I assumed they shot at me since I stupidly tipped I was cop on D2. I figured any suggestion that would give scum a window into how I am protected, might get them to stick their necks out.

 

Peace bit. He bit even more when I said my results won't die with me. I mean hell, he wanted to know who the deputy is!!! 

 

I'm just miffed taht John Snow blew up my trap before it netted more.

Yeah I have absolutely no idea how knowing that would benefit town at this time. Did Peace ever explain that or did it just get lost in all the other BS going on?

[Hybrid]

It's also worth noting that JiF/BooBoo has posted several times today about having peace as one of his top 2 for scum, but is still voting Katiora in spite of there being more support for a peace lynch.  I say lynch peace today, and if he flips scum, lynch JiF/BooBoo tomorrow.

[John McClane]

 

 

Oh it was you? That's fine then I guess. Dunno why I thought it was Peace.

 

 

Yeah, it was me. Think about the circumstances. We just came out of a night phase where only scum died. That means their shot got blocked. I know I have some protection. I assumed they shot at me since I stupidly tipped I was cop on D2. I figured any suggestion that would give scum a window into how I am protected, might get them to stick their necks out.

 

Peace bit. He bit even more when I said my results won't die with me. I mean hell, he wanted to know who the deputy is!!! 

 

I'm just miffed taht John Snow blew up my trap before it netted more.

Yeah I have absolutely no idea how knowing that would benefit town at this time. Did Peace ever explain that or did it just get lost in all the other BS going on?

 

I'm not going to argue about the other stuff with you anymore, we can discuss in end game. Maybe.

 

To this question... no, he never explained it. He kept repeating "it's a numbers game" which is a given. Everything about mafia is a numbers game, really. It's an empty statement, let alone a rationale for why I should divulge any information.

 

Then he tried to troll me as though he had JN players in his ear. Specifically I loved it when he hit me with the "ape just voted every player in the game" line. That didn't sound familiar at all

[John McClane]

It's also worth noting that JiF/BooBoo has posted several times today about having peace as one of his top 2 for scum, but is still voting Katiora in spite of there being more support for a peace lynch.  I say lynch peace today, and if he flips scum, lynch JiF/BooBoo tomorrow.

 

Yeah, JIF was all about blaming me for "not being able to scum hunt" and then out of the other side of his mouth, it's "lynch peace and kat and see my scum hunting greatness". 

 

Further proof that that blubbering about me posting too much was disingenuous crap, and just a remedial cover for him to hide behind. If he was being serious with that crap, I'm flying to jaxonville and beating the crap out of him for unforgivable levels of pansy.

[peacesells]

 

 

Oh it was you? That's fine then I guess. Dunno why I thought it was Peace.

 

 

Yeah, it was me. Think about the circumstances. We just came out of a night phase where only scum died. That means their shot got blocked. I know I have some protection. I assumed they shot at me since I stupidly tipped I was cop on D2. I figured any suggestion that would give scum a window into how I am protected, might get them to stick their necks out.

 

Peace bit. He bit even more when I said my results won't die with me. I mean hell, he wanted to know who the deputy is!!! 

 

I'm just miffed taht John Snow blew up my trap before it netted more.

Yeah I have absolutely no idea how knowing that would benefit town at this time. Did Peace ever explain that or did it just get lost in all the other BS going on?

 

 

I did explain it.  I wanted to narrow the pool down.  3 investigators, all their results, tina and apes deputy if there is one means the scum would be in the small pool of players left.  At that point is just a small numbers game.  That's the angle I've been pushing all along.

 

I got suspicious of Ape for awhile for a couple reasons.  1 - he refused to acknowledge that this was a possibility. 

 

And more importantly 2 - if this is the case the game is really imbalanced.  That would give us 4 investigators, a role blocker/redirect (No scum kill if tina is telling the truth) , a doc and a watcher (5th investigator).    With all those investigative roles out there..I thought there was a strong possibility there may not be a cop in this game.  Think about it.  A watcher, A sheriff, A deputy and 2 reporters?  I bit overkill. 

 

While thinking this through...I thought Ape may have come to the same conclusion and risked a fake cop claim.  After our tit-for tat I had second thoughts about that theory.

[Hybrid]

lol

 

Of course, none of this matters if our mod never shows up.  Does anyone have another point of contact for him?  Though Quibby is a co-mod, so we could try contacting him as well -- he's at least been online recently.

[Turin Turambar]

I see the whole individual events hold to their true randomness. I have argued that myself when someone comes out with the "Player X hasn't been mafia in Y games. They must be due." In some things it just feels like it should be different. Now that it is pointed out I see the error there.

 

I primarily just don't buy her claim due to the seeming contradiction of the claim with the information given in the wiki on the character.

 

The kill on Vabram doesn't have another easy explanation so that is a point in her favor as far as not being mafia but does nothing to eliminating the SK possibility. I was thinking of two teams  due to the apparent town strength with Tina taking someone from the other team out but with the number of deaths and the people left it is looking less likely now.

[Hybrid]

I see the whole individual events hold to their true randomness. I have argued that myself when someone comes out with the "Player X hasn't been mafia in Y games. They must be due." In some things it just feels like it should be different. Now that it is pointed out I see the error there.

 

 

Agreed.  To be fair, I agree that 3 hits in 3 nights is still a reason to doubt her role claim, I was just being a nitpicking jackass because it reminded me of people making that argument about chance of being mafia.  It's a pet peeve of mine.

 

The kill on Vabram doesn't have another easy explanation so that is a point in her favor as far as not being mafia but does nothing to eliminating the SK possibility.

 

Absolutely agreed on this as well.

[Hybrid]

Of course, lynching/killing BooBoo/JiF would also mean getting rid of the great artist who gave us

 

"Ape is liar

Let's set him on fire"

 

So I'm torn.

[John McClane]

 

 

 

Oh it was you? That's fine then I guess. Dunno why I thought it was Peace.

 

 

Yeah, it was me. Think about the circumstances. We just came out of a night phase where only scum died. That means their shot got blocked. I know I have some protection. I assumed they shot at me since I stupidly tipped I was cop on D2. I figured any suggestion that would give scum a window into how I am protected, might get them to stick their necks out.

 

Peace bit. He bit even more when I said my results won't die with me. I mean hell, he wanted to know who the deputy is!!! 

 

I'm just miffed taht John Snow blew up my trap before it netted more.

Yeah I have absolutely no idea how knowing that would benefit town at this time. Did Peace ever explain that or did it just get lost in all the other BS going on?

 

 

I did explain it.  I wanted to narrow the pool down.  3 investigators, all their results, tina and apes deputy if there is one means the scum would be in the small pool of players left.  At that point is just a small numbers game.  That's the angle I've been pushing all along.

 

I got suspicious of Ape for awhile for a couple reasons.  1 - he refused to acknowledge that this was a possibility. 

 

And more importantly 2 - if this is the case the game is really imbalanced.  That would give us 4 investigators, a role blocker/redirect (No scum kill if tina is telling the truth) , a doc and a watcher (5th investigator).    With all those investigative roles out there..I thought there was a strong possibility there may not be a cop in this game.  Think about it.  A watcher, A sheriff, A deputy and 2 reporters?  I bit overkill. 

 

While thinking this through...I thought Ape may have come to the same conclusion and risked a fake cop claim.  After our tit-for tat I had second thoughts about that theory.

 

1. I never refused to acknowledge it as a possibility. I refused to proceed as though there were no variables that would blow your theory up and make the town vulnerable, namely one of those investigative roles being scum, scum being investigation proof, or scum having a framer. Your "numbers game" proposition never assumed any mechanics that would create fault, and I saw too many to just roll along with your plan. Has nothing to do with a "grudge" as you implied, like a petty doosh, it had to do with basic logic.

 

2. How can you talk about balance and seriously push your "numbers game" never mind logic, and keep a straight face.

[John McClane]

Also, peace -  the "bit overkill" sentiment is exactly why I'd like to lynch either JIF or Ed. I agree with you that there's apparent balance issues. I just didn't agree that it was a cut and dry numbers game, mostly because there are balance issues. There have to be roles that are investigation proof, which would undermine the basis of the specific numbers game you suggested.