[Advanced] The Dresden Files Mafia - Game Over - Ed loses, Verbal wins

[John McClane]

I'll respond to your case in depth tomorrow if I have time Ape but before I go to bed I'd just like to point out that you're doing exactly what I do when I get convinced I have scum.

You're looking at the game and finding evidence to fit your theory rather than looking at the evidence and seeing where it points.

As you were happy to point out to me yesterday just because you pushed Ishy down on your list didn't mean you were counting him out or delaying his lynch. 

Likewise just because I wanted to lynch Ishy first doesn't mean I was protecting Jif. And now you're putting me in a lose-lose scenario where if I'm not voting him it's because we're scummates and if I am voting him it's distancing. Kinda lame but whatever.

All I can do now is vote who I think is scum and hope for the best.

 

That's not entirely true. Case in point, with Rand - in the moment he did it, I called him out for voting Ishy while setting up a case / future lynch on me. If Ed hadn't outed me as cop last night, my money was on Rand coming at me today.

 

In other case I am in fact applying a narrative to the circumstance that have occurred. Sometimes it's all you have to go on. I think I discern between the two well. I usually call the former something like an "universal tell" whereas with you, I make it clear I'm talking out a circumstantial theory. People are welcome to react. 

 

I'm split between pointing out some tells, and having to have to apply some narrative and speculation. 

 

How about this... rather than telling me what I'm doing that's wrong and trying to spin it back around on me, you address the points I've called contradictory with an explanation of your logic? That's all I'm asking.

 

Also, what is your reaction to my list of potential lynches today that don't include you? All game long you've heaped accusations on me, avoided EVERY single inquiry I've pointed back at you and in general done nothing that aligns with logic.

[John McClane]

John, I've had no influence on anyone this game.

 

I believe it's a numbers game.  I thought you were being scummy and not even accepting it as a strong possibility so I pressured you.  You've convinced me that it's not because you are scum that you aren't accepting it.  You are just being willful imo.

 

Tglems.  I STILL THINK ITS A NUMBERS GAME!!  THAT'S MY POSITION.

 

Vote people in that pool..you'll find 4 scum.  I'm in that pool of players too..btw. 

 

I can't wait until this game is over. I want you to be town. Then I want you to tell me how terrible I'm playing while I laugh in your face.

 

Like I said, mafia is always a numbers game. You sound like a dope.

 

I don't want to be told "vote people in that pool". I want to hear who you think we SHOULD vote.

[Leelou]

I can see leaving both reporters for now, they both seem to have townie character claims. Out of everyone Rand and Lenlo are sticking out as scummy to me. I'm still not sure if I believe Tina's claim as vig or if she would fit more as a SK. It would be nice if Turin would come give thoughts on the game. Song gave us nothing to go on and he hasn't shown up yet either. Really getting tempted to start a policy lynch here. 

 

The way Lenlo started out with questioning Ed about his "crap" comment, that he didn't just follow the outed and uncountered cop's lead at start of day and trying to find out if Ape viewed Tina or not and not really scum hunting himself makes me feel comfortable voting him. 

 

unvote, vote Lenlo

[John McClane]

I'm ready to start policy lynching everyone that says they are going to get caught up and post, or will respond tomorrow (Turin, Nolder)... effing DM games. Worst.

[Nolder]

How about this... rather than telling me what I'm doing that's wrong and trying to spin it back around on me, you address the points I've called contradictory with an explanation of your logic? That's all I'm asking.

Yeah yeah. Like I said I was going to sleep. I'll do that now.

 

Also, what is your reaction to my list of potential lynches today that don't include you? All game long you've heaped accusations on me, avoided EVERY single inquiry I've pointed back at you and in general done nothing that aligns with logic.

I'm sorry but I still don't remember any questions from before.

As for the others, I don't have much of a read on them because I've been focused on Ishy and now Jif for the past two days and Csarmi took all the attention on Day 1.

 

Lessee Rand replaced Crusher right? IIRC he came in strong and Crusher certainly wasn't playing quiet when he was around.

Loud usually says town to me so I feel alright about Rand.

 

Lenlo I have zero read on. I'll have to go back and reread him at some point.

 

Turin I can't remember seeing even make a post. Who did he replace again?

[Nolder]

I'm ready to start policy lynching everyone that says they are going to get caught up and post, or will respond tomorrow (Turin, Nolder)... effing DM games. Worst.

GFY I was tired.

[Leelou]

 

How about this... rather than telling me what I'm doing that's wrong and trying to spin it back around on me, you address the points I've called contradictory with an explanation of your logic? That's all I'm asking.

Yeah yeah. Like I said I was going to sleep. I'll do that now.

 

>Also, what is your reaction to my list of potential lynches today that don't include you? All game long you've heaped accusations on me, avoided EVERY single inquiry I've pointed back at you and in general done nothing that aligns with logic.

I'm sorry but I still don't remember any questions from before.

As for the others, I don't have much of a read on them because I've been focused on Ishy and now Jif for the past two days and Csarmi took all the attention on Day 1.

 

Lessee Rand replaced Crusher right? IIRC he came in strong and Crusher certainly wasn't playing quiet when he was around.

Loud usually says town to me so I feel alright about Rand.

 

Lenlo I have zero read on. I'll have to go back and reread him at some point.

 

Turin I can't remember seeing even make a post. Who did he replace again?

 

 

He made one post to say he'd get caught up and he replaced Song who posted 2 times about getting drunk. 

[Nolder]

Oh, right now I remember.

I would be fine with lynching Turin if there's a strong push to keep Jif alive one more night for his report (which there seems to be).

I hate leaving lurkers alive.

[Nolder]

Ok even when posting is "working" it's effed up so you're getting nameless quote boxes for your case when it's posted. Deal with it.

[Nolder]

I'm also growing weary of Nolder. I thought since about Page 2 of the game he was cratering on me to "hide in plain sight" as we call it as a power role. At this point, I don't know what to make of his play. It seems to ignore things we know about the game, like his case on Booboo.

 

Fair enough I guess. But a character claim does not clear someone. I have my doubts based on his play.

 

And it's not like scum have never been given plausible false claims before.

 

 

That said, I've seen Nolder insist he's got someone pegged as scum despite all facts saying otherwise. The other thing here is that Booboo is scum, and Nolder's making a clear-cut distancing move... just in case Booboo is the lynch. It also allows Nolder to stay off the grid.

Not sure how voting Jif, a clearly unpopular move right now, is keeping me off the grid. Especially if he IS lynched.

Being the person who's pushing it I'd get the most attention out of anyone if/when it happens.

You're speaking nonsense here.

 

Part of my suspicion of this is that on D2, when I voted Booboo, Nolder goaded me in to voting Ishy. I've seen Nolder go far out of his way to save a scummate before.

I'm sorry to bring meta and WIFOM into this but I feel like I have to here.

First of all when was the last time you've seen me actually do that?

And secondly would Jif even let me do that if we were on a team together?

 

So on D2 he didn't want me to vote Booboo when all we knew was that Booboo was playing scummy,

I thought Ishy was worse and needed to die first. Just like you shifted your priorities to Jif and Tina.

 

but today despite Booboo now being an uncoutered "Bob" character, Nolder insists on voting Booboo for scummy play. Seems highly contradictory.

Being uncountered doesn't make him clear and "Bob" may not necessarily be a town player this game. You know how mods like to mix things like that up.

The ONLY thing he has going for him IMO is that he claimed reporter first iirc and then Ed spoke up as a second reporter. So the reporter claim at least seems legit unless they are both scum.

 

Random reason to vote Nolder is that he brought up a symp on like the 3rd page of the game,

Can you tell me exactly where this was? I looked on page 3 and didn't see it.

I don't even remember bringing up symps. 

 

and tried to set a fake trap on me, perhaps to remove me from the game early because historically I read him well as scum. Not so much this game though, lol.

If I thought I had to take you out as early as possible I would have went all or nothing on you already.

[Hybrid]

I'm ready to start policy lynching everyone that says they are going to get caught up and post, or will respond tomorrow (Turin, Nolder)... effing DM games. Worst.

 

Agreed on Turin, if he doesn't post something substantial very soon.  I'd rather have Tina shoot him at night than waste a lynch on him, but meh.

 

I still like peace for the lynch today.

[John McClane]

 

How about this... rather than telling me what I'm doing that's wrong and trying to spin it back around on me, you address the points I've called contradictory with an explanation of your logic? That's all I'm asking.

Yeah yeah. Like I said I was going to sleep. I'll do that now.

 

>Also, what is your reaction to my list of potential lynches today that don't include you? All game long you've heaped accusations on me, avoided EVERY single inquiry I've pointed back at you and in general done nothing that aligns with logic.

I'm sorry but I still don't remember any questions from before.

As for the others, I don't have much of a read on them because I've been focused on Ishy and now Jif for the past two days and Csarmi took all the attention on Day 1.

 

Lessee Rand replaced Crusher right? IIRC he came in strong and Crusher certainly wasn't playing quiet when he was around.

Loud usually says town to me so I feel alright about Rand.

 

Lenlo I have zero read on. I'll have to go back and reread him at some point.

 

Turin I can't remember seeing even make a post. Who did he replace again?

 

 

 

Loud usually says town? LOL

 

Then why have you been hung up on me for half the game?

 

LOL, this response is complete bullshart. 

[John McClane]

 

I'm also growing weary of Nolder. I thought since about Page 2 of the game he was cratering on me to "hide in plain sight" as we call it as a power role. At this point, I don't know what to make of his play. It seems to ignore things we know about the game, like his case on Booboo.

 

(1) Fair enough I guess. But a character claim does not clear someone. I have my doubts based on his play.

 

And it's not like scum have never been given plausible false claims before.

 

 

>That said, I've seen Nolder insist he's got someone pegged as scum despite all facts saying otherwise. The other thing here is that Booboo is scum, and Nolder's making a clear-cut distancing move... just in case Booboo is the lynch. It also allows Nolder to stay off the grid.

 

(2) 

Not sure how voting Jif, a clearly unpopular move right now, is keeping me off the grid. Especially if he IS lynched.

Being the person who's pushing it I'd get the most attention out of anyone if/when it happens.

You're speaking nonsense here.

 

Part of my suspicion of this is that on D2, when I voted Booboo, Nolder goaded me in to voting Ishy. I've seen Nolder go far out of his way to save a scummate before.

(3) 

I'm sorry to bring meta and WIFOM into this but I feel like I have to here.

First of all when was the last time you've seen me actually do that?

And secondly would Jif even let me do that if we were on a team together?

 

So on D2 he didn't want me to vote Booboo when all we knew was that Booboo was playing scummy,

(4) 

I thought Ishy was worse and needed to die first. Just like you shifted your priorities to Jif and Tina.

 

but today despite Booboo now being an uncoutered "Bob" character, Nolder insists on voting Booboo for scummy play. Seems highly contradictory.

(5) 

Being uncountered doesn't make him clear and "Bob" may not necessarily be a town player this game. You know how mods like to mix things like that up.

The ONLY thing he has going for him IMO is that he claimed reporter first iirc and then Ed spoke up as a second reporter. So the reporter claim at least seems legit unless they are both scum.

 

Random reason to vote Nolder is that he brought up a symp on like the 3rd page of the game,

(6) 

Can you tell me exactly where this was? I looked on page 3 and didn't see it.

I don't even remember bringing up symps. 

 

and tried to set a fake trap on me, perhaps to remove me from the game early because historically I read him well as scum. Not so much this game though, lol.

(7) 

If I thought I had to take you out as early as possible I would have went all or nothing on you already.

 

 

1. I agree with this completely. I just wanted your point of view.

 

2. What I meant by keeping you off the grid, is that by burying your vote on JIF, you are voting a train that isn't likely to go anywhere (which you yourself acknowledge), and thus avoiding making a case on anyone else that I may have an innocent on. It allows you to make a loud "look at my vote on JIF" move, without risk of being snagged if you make a push at someone that hasnt' been case in this game.

 

3. I remember the first game I played here. I think it was Blackhoof and some other total jerk, I had gotten a ping from both before page 5 ended. Then you defended them. I ended up bagging all 3 of you as scum. That instance alone verifies that I have in fact seen you do it, and I do think I've seen it before. Either way, once was enough. I don't think JIF would have a say in what you do, you usually play your own game regardless of alignment. That question carries little weight.

 

4. Right, you thought Ishy was first, but if you ALSO thought JIF was scummy, then why not let me pursue him and you purse Ishy to see where it goes. It goes against everything logical from a town perspective for you to badger someone about them going after one of your top suspects. Rather than just shutting up and weighing the reactions. You tried to halt it. That is NOT a townie way of leveraging the situation.

 

5. JIF did claim reporter first. I never said him being uncountered as Bob vets him. This sentence "So the reporter claim at least seems legit unless they are both scum." makes zero sense. What if they are both town? The claim doesn't make sense in that scenario? More illogical crap from you.

 

6. You did. I will bump it.

 

7. I think you tried to bait me into a fake-trap, and I blew it up. So you had no choice but to back off. I think it was Tina that also questioned your intentions as not making sense. We should have lynched you last Wednesday. 

[John McClane]

 

 

 

 

Vote Ape

 

I played completely to his idea of my meta and he didn't say a word about it

Now granted it's his idea of my town meta so maybe he just didn't care but I would have thought he'd at least make a small note of it

Anytime I've done something similar (in his eyes) he's always mentioned it before

Makes me think he has reason to not want to call me town this game

 

Usually when you are impatient to get through D1 it's because you have an investigative role, why would I point out meta of you having a town power role? That seems very illogical.

 

Also, if you are implying I'm scum and you are town, then under what circumstance would I ever not call you town to buddy up to you? Also illogical. 

 

When I'm town, in my mind, everyone is scum, until they aren't. There really isn't anything credible in this post at all bud.

Unvote Ape

 

Fair enough

Although in a scenario where you are scum and I am town if you thought I had a power role you'd have incentive to throw me onto the chopping block as well as buddy up. Either one is a valid strategy.

 

In an environment with players that react only to face value, neither strategy would matter much. The best strategy would have been to brush you off and shoot you tonight. 

Wouldn't work if you're a symp.

 

 

Bump.

 

Nolder mentioning symps on page 5, in an unrelated context in the midst of his fake-trap not working on me. 

[John McClane]

 

 

I'm sure this is a mod induced PR due to his behavior earlier.

 

 

Good guess.  Is that a common practice here? 

 

I had a spontaneous post restriction on D1 too, I had to compliment someone in every post... 

 

 

I just remembered something. 

 

I'm going to unvote for now, but I do stand behind my case on Nolder, and would also lynch Lenlo, Rand or Turin. I am quite content being the hammer vote too. So now, the trains are in your hands. You guys need to step up. This staring contest is pathetic. Do something, it's a game.

[John McClane]

Vote Kat

 

Why'd you make this vote AVM?

 

 

Piano

 

 

>Vote Crusher.

Don't like these votes. Lazy and looks like they're looking for easy targets.

 

Also happy to kill the Batman.

Think Ishy realizes how it looks and tries to rectify it by throwing someone else's name out there, although it's also an easy target IMO so this comes out as overall negative to me.

 

If it were Wednesday, I'd gladly vote you Nol. 

Leelou is basically saying here she doesn't want to vote me and/or thinks I'm town. Smacks of budding, don't like it.

 

 

This is so lame and boring.

Everyone is just voting without ANY rhyme or reason.

You've all played before so it's just that much more disgusting.

Way to make this game suck.

 

I'm turning on lurkmode now, call me when D1 is over.

If it ever ends that is.

LOL

 

Unvote. Vote Nol.

Still looking for the easy target.

 

 

If it were Wednesday, I'd gladly vote you Nol. 

Just pretend it's Wednesday and speed lynch him.

Encouraging others to do vote the easy target.

 

Unvote

Vote Nolderp

I like this vote. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it looks aimed at pressuring for info and reactions rather than a quick day 1 lynch. Could be wrong though of course.

 

Because I can, and because killing Nolder is always a god idea.

Hmmm. It's been quite a long time since we last played. Watching you.

 

 

^^^ Nolder calls out a few people in this post: Ed, Ishy both get criticism for "lazy" votes. Then he further puts FOS on Ishy, accuses Leelou of buddying... all because they voted him or mentioned voting him. Then Booboo vote Nolder, and Nolder praises it as a pro-town vote. Reading quite a bit into it as being "designed" for whatever, when there was actually nothing but a vote in the post. Then he quotes and casts FOS at casrmi.

 

So he drops a huge amount of FOS on everyone that mentioned lynching Nolder, except Booboo. Booboo was credited with having a scum hunting agenda?

 

This was on D1. On D2, when I moved off of Ishy and onto Booboo, Nolder wigged out on me. Now, he's telling me he suspected both Ishy and Booboo? BUT if he actually suspected both, why not he case Ishy and let me pursue JIF his  other suspect?

 

I call major BS.

 

 

Nonchalant uncaring Ishy is town Ishy. Pretty much as solid a meta read you can have around here. His alignment can be pegged...even when drunk and in Vegas.

IMO he's been like that in most recent games regardless of alignment.

 

Here, peacesells mentions some meta on Ishy. Nolder immediately tries to undermine it.

 

The more of Nolder's crap I read, the higher up my list he moves.

 

If Nolder flips scum, we have Boooboo... and potentially AVM and Verbal are back in play, since those are the guys that Booboo has fed us as town. Looking at this game, Booboo played tremendously scummy early (see my case on D2) and AVM and Verbal have pinged me like crazy. Neither are participating much, it's like all 3 of them are sitting back and letting town pick itself to pieces. If Nolder flips town, then I think we can make this the numbers game that peacesells wants after getting the 3 viewings tonight. 

[Hybrid]

It's kind of hard to believe that there are actually 15 players left "alive" in this game.

[peacesells]

It's kind of hard to believe that there are actually 15 players left "alive" in this game.

 

True statement there.   Maybe most are zombies?

 

Anyway.  Nice to see Ape coming around. 

 

VOTE NOLDER.  I'll play.

[AVM]

 

Vote Kat

 

Why'd you make this vote AVM?

 

> 

Piano

 

 

>>Vote Crusher.

Don't like these votes. Lazy and looks like they're looking for easy targets.

 

Also happy to kill the Batman.

Think Ishy realizes how it looks and tries to rectify it by throwing someone else's name out there, although it's also an easy target IMO so this comes out as overall negative to me.

 

If it were Wednesday, I'd gladly vote you Nol. 

Leelou is basically saying here she doesn't want to vote me and/or thinks I'm town. Smacks of budding, don't like it.

 

 

This is so lame and boring.

Everyone is just voting without ANY rhyme or reason.

You've all played before so it's just that much more disgusting.

Way to make this game suck.

 

I'm turning on lurkmode now, call me when D1 is over.

If it ever ends that is.

LOL

 

Unvote. Vote Nol.

Still looking for the easy target.

 

 

If it were Wednesday, I'd gladly vote you Nol. 

Just pretend it's Wednesday and speed lynch him.

Encouraging others to do vote the easy target.

 

Unvote

Vote Nolderp

I like this vote. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it looks aimed at pressuring for info and reactions rather than a quick day 1 lynch. Could be wrong though of course.

 

Because I can, and because killing Nolder is always a god idea.

Hmmm. It's been quite a long time since we last played. Watching you.

 

 

^^^ Nolder calls out a few people in this post: Ed, Ishy both get criticism for "lazy" votes. Then he further puts FOS on Ishy, accuses Leelou of buddying... all because they voted him or mentioned voting him. Then Booboo vote Nolder, and Nolder praises it as a pro-town vote. Reading quite a bit into it as being "designed" for whatever, when there was actually nothing but a vote in the post. Then he quotes and casts FOS at casrmi.

 

So he drops a huge amount of FOS on everyone that mentioned lynching Nolder, except Booboo. Booboo was credited with having a scum hunting agenda?

 

This was on D1. On D2, when I moved off of Ishy and onto Booboo, Nolder wigged out on me. Now, he's telling me he suspected both Ishy and Booboo? BUT if he actually suspected both, why not he case Ishy and let me pursue JIF his  other suspect?

 

I call major BS.

 

 

Nonchalant uncaring Ishy is town Ishy. Pretty much as solid a meta read you can have around here. His alignment can be pegged...even when drunk and in Vegas.

IMO he's been like that in most recent games regardless of alignment.

 

Here, peacesells mentions some meta on Ishy. Nolder immediately tries to undermine it.

 

The more of Nolder's crap I read, the higher up my list he moves.

 

If Nolder flips scum, we have Boooboo... and potentially AVM and Verbal are back in play, since those are the guys that Booboo has fed us as town. Looking at this game, Booboo played tremendously scummy early (see my case on D2) and AVM and Verbal have pinged me like crazy. Neither are participating much, it's like all 3 of them are sitting back and letting town pick itself to pieces. If Nolder flips town, then I think we can make this the numbers game that peacesells wants after getting the 3 viewings tonight. 

 

 

Followed Leelou.  Just a joke vote, nothing serious.

[Tyler Glembo]

BTW, when is deadline?

[Tyler Glembo]

And I vote Tina snipe Turin tonight.  Policy.

[John McClane]

Compelling input everyone, really.

[Niniel]

I had a great Saturday. Not so great Sunday.

 

I know I was against lynching Booboo before but now I think we should lynch him or Ed. From what I understand, Ed´s character is more likely to be town so I think we should pick Booboo. There are just too many informative roles. We have two reporters, one cop and a watcher. If we kill him we might get some information about AVM and Verbal too. Both of them haven´t said much lately. I know Verbal is rarely here on weekends, don´t know about AVM. 

 

Unvote. Vote Booboo

 

 

When I get the time to re-read I will focus on TGlems, Rand and Lenlo. I have been to focused on others this game. Still suspicious of Katiora. Don´t know about Leelou anymore. 

 

 

[Hybrid]

I had a great Saturday. Not so great Sunday.

 

I know I was against lynching Booboo before but now I think we should lynch him or Ed. From what I understand, Ed´s character is more likely to be town so I think we should pick Booboo. There are just too many informative roles. We have two reporters, one cop and a watcher. If we kill him we might get some information about AVM and Verbal too. Both of them haven´t said much lately. I know Verbal is rarely here on weekends, don´t know about AVM. 

 

Unvote. Vote Booboo

 

 

When I get the time to re-read I will focus on TGlems, Rand and Lenlo. I have been to focused on others this game. Still suspicious of Katiora. Don´t know about Leelou anymore. 

 

Lynching a Reporter at the moment is a terrible idea.  We can cross that bridge later, but the more info we get from them in the meantime the better.  I'm not sure why you would want to push this agenda unless you're actually an SK and want to thin out the information roles to reduce your chance of being targeted.

[John McClane]

I had a great Saturday. Not so great Sunday.

 

I know I was against lynching Booboo before but now I think we should lynch him or Ed. From what I understand, Ed´s character is more likely to be town so I think we should pick Booboo. There are just too many informative roles. We have two reporters, one cop and a watcher. If we kill him we might get some information about AVM and Verbal too. Both of them haven´t said much lately. I know Verbal is rarely here on weekends, don´t know about AVM. 

 

Unvote. Vote Booboo

 

 

When I get the time to re-read I will focus on TGlems, Rand and Lenlo. I have been to focused on others this game. Still suspicious of Katiora. Don´t know about Leelou anymore. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, you don't agree that lynching Nolder would inform about booboo? 

 

If it was up to me we'd lynch you right now. In order, and this is without bluffing or misdirection, my list is: Tina, Rand, Lenlo then Nolder.

 

I think scum probably has a tracker, since town had a watcher (darthe). There are 2 scenarios in which scum would have known to call my bluff when I led the day voting Tina, one would be if they knew she was town, and the other would be if they knew I didn't visit her.

 

I think the town is in a position where we aren't desperate to keep Tina's claimed 50% killing ability around to help our numbers. IF I can clear a couple more people tonight, then we absolutely won't need her. It makes sense to remove the "is she vig, is she SK" wifom right now.