Logain's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Yamezt]

Besides plot reasons for Taim to flee, they had suffered 1 cave-in. I do not think an all out battle underground with a second cave-in by Two Rivers Soldiers ("Novices") trying to get in would raise our esteem of the villains either.

[Charred Knight]

Besides plot reasons for Taim to flee, they had suffered 1 cave-in. I do not think an all out battle underground with a second cave-in by Two Rivers Soldiers ("Novices") trying to get in would raise our esteem of the villains either.

Well it would certainly make Taim and Graendal to look more competent then fleeing from one Asha'man and leaving their followers to die.

 

 

 

Well Androl is not exactly alone either, yes he is very creative with his gateways, but it is not like the others on his side just sit around doing nothing. My point however was that Taim underestimated Androl due to his very limited strength and then it turned out that he could kick ass anyway using his wit and creative utilization of what he got. It would be like the big bad brute who just bush the 12 year old little girl off for off course she would not be a threat to him directly, and he do not even bother to restrain her, and then she go and figure out how to get a gun and comes back and shoots him. Androl is no threat to Tiam directly, but he is smart and he manages to use what he got in ways that are very creative which then points out that it is Taim's own arrogance who defeats him there as if he had only shielded or killed Androl he would not be in that situation, but since he just brush him off as an annoying bug...well some annoying bugs bite.

Well Taim still could have fought back especially considering that all of Logain's powerful followers were already turned.  Instead he ran away like a scared child.

 

 

What good is it to throw weaves at Androl and friends when all Androl had to do was use gateways to cause those weaves to attack Taim and his darkfriend asha'man? Androl's ingenuity caused several of the darkfriend and turned Asha'man to be killed. I do not blame Taim at all for escaping.

Throw a shield at him then kill him.  They are the forsaken not a bunch of amateurs who should be defeated by one Asha'man especially of Androl's power.

[XXX]

Or cut his weaves before he forms a gateway, the way Demi did it on the battlefield.Androl is a good fighter as long as as he protected and kept behind someone else.One on one he would be toast.

[Hagazussa]

What good is it to throw weaves at Androl and friends when all Androl

had to do was use gateways to cause those weaves to attack Taim and his

darkfriend asha'man? Androl's ingenuity caused several of the darkfriend

and turned Asha'man to be killed. I do not blame Taim at all for

escaping.

 

I agree with Charred Knight here, this is what shields are therefore, Androl would have no resistance to a shield thrown by...well about anyone in the room at that point. Hell if Taim wanted to spread some fear among the rescue party and make sure to permanently get rid of Androl's pesky portals, he could always make the shield sharp...The point is yes Androl is smart and he can send other channeler's weaves left and right with his portals, but shielding that is strength vs strength and that he can not deflect with a portal, it should have been easy for Taim to just take Androl out of the equation.

[Vambram]

The problem with that theory is because Androl was so very weak in the One Power, Taim and the rest of the Asha'man never ever even thought of him as being a threat to them. Hence, one of the reasons that their nickname for Androl was page boy.

[Charred Knight]

The problem with that theory is because Androl was so very weak in the One Power, Taim and the rest of the Asha'man never ever even thought of him as being a threat to them. Hence, one of the reasons that their nickname for Androl was page boy.

 

and yet Taim ran away.  If Taim has enough time to make a gateway he has enough time to make a shield or some type of maneuver to stop Androl.

[Vambram]

By then, it was too late for Taim to do anything but run away. Graendal became afraid and escaped. Taim was the only other survivor and he would have been alone against Androl and the rest of the Asha'man that came to rescue Logain and Androl and Pevara.

[Charred Knight]

By then, it was too late for Taim to do anything but run away. Graendal became afraid and escaped. Taim was the only other survivor and he would have been alone against Androl and the rest of the Asha'man that came to rescue Logain and Androl and Pevara.

 

Taim and Graendal escaped before the others fell to their deaths.  If they had shielded Androl then the Black Tower would have been theirs.  Also its kind of pathetic that Graendal is afraid of Androl. 

[Byzantine279]

I think a large part of it was that the dreamspike had vanished at the same time the attack began.  They didn't know that it was Perrin and Lanfear who removed the dreamspike.  They probably assumed Rand and a whole bunch of Aes Sedai and others where after them, and decided to flee before they were able to arrive/find them.

 

Basically, they weren't running away from Androl, they were running away from what him being able to make a gateway represents.

[Charred Knight]

I think a large part of it was that the dreamspike had vanished at the same time the attack began.  They didn't know that it was Perrin and Lanfear who removed the dreamspike.  They probably assumed Rand and a whole bunch of Aes Sedai and others where after them, and decided to flee before they were able to arrive/find them.

 

Basically, they weren't running away from Androl, they were running away from what him being able to make a gateway represents.

 

The character say nothing about that, the book has Androl feel the wall preventing him from making large gateways vanish, then Androl gets pissed off, and starts defeating Taim's forces and then the forsaken flee.  

 

 

"The woman called Hessalam fled.  As she darted through a gateway of her own, Taim followed with a couple of others.  The rest were not so wise --- for a moment later, Androl opened a gateway as wide as the floor, dropping the other women and Asha'man through it to plummet hundreds of feet."  

 

The book says nothing about Graendal or Taim being afraid of Rand and the others coming back.  Graendal and Taim fled because they were afraid of Androl because Androl is such a super awesome guy.

[BFG]

 

I think a large part of it was that the dreamspike had vanished at the same time the attack began.  They didn't know that it was Perrin and Lanfear who removed the dreamspike.  They probably assumed Rand and a whole bunch of Aes Sedai and others where after them, and decided to flee before they were able to arrive/find them.

 

Basically, they weren't running away from Androl, they were running away from what him being able to make a gateway represents.

 

The character say nothing about that, the book has Androl feel the wall preventing him from making large gateways vanish, then Androl gets pissed off, and starts defeating Taim's forces and then the forsaken flee.  

 

 

"The woman called Hessalam fled.  As she darted through a gateway of her own, Taim followed with a couple of others.  The rest were not so wise --- for a moment later, Androl opened a gateway as wide as the floor, dropping the other women and Asha'man through it to plummet hundreds of feet."  

 

The book says nothing about Graendal or Taim being afraid of Rand and the others coming back.  Graendal and Taim fled because they were afraid of Androl because Androl is such a super awesome guy.

 

Isn't the POV of this Androl's?  He may have thought they were fleeing from him when they were fleeing from an unknown threat.  The fact that Androl can make Gateways means 1 of 3 things from their pov -

 

1, Androl has the access key - the least damaging to them but unlikely as their's no reason he should know of what's causing the barrier in the first place let alone how to circumnavigate it. 

2, Androl has access to some previously unknown ter'angreal, or skill that allows him to defeat the dreamspike - which leaves the possibility of what else they have

3, Someone else removed the Barrier - logically has to be one of the Lightside guys, as the Shadow has no reason to remove the Dreamspike, which means the BT is no longer isolated, that their's a possibility of several hundred strong unturned Ashaman coming back (they were all strong enough to join the fight and have gained experience fighting since then), possibly including Rand, several of the AS, Nyn, Cads... 

 

Given the situation that they're aware of staying gains them little - the chance to convert a few more Ashaman, but risks a lot, either unknown ter'angreal or an army coming back to fight them, leaving risks nothing and costs little.

[Charred Knight]

 

 

I think a large part of it was that the dreamspike had vanished at the same time the attack began.  They didn't know that it was Perrin and Lanfear who removed the dreamspike.  They probably assumed Rand and a whole bunch of Aes Sedai and others where after them, and decided to flee before they were able to arrive/find them.

 

Basically, they weren't running away from Androl, they were running away from what him being able to make a gateway represents.

 

The character say nothing about that, the book has Androl feel the wall preventing him from making large gateways vanish, then Androl gets pissed off, and starts defeating Taim's forces and then the forsaken flee.  

 

 

"The woman called Hessalam fled.  As she darted through a gateway of her own, Taim followed with a couple of others.  The rest were not so wise --- for a moment later, Androl opened a gateway as wide as the floor, dropping the other women and Asha'man through it to plummet hundreds of feet."  

 

The book says nothing about Graendal or Taim being afraid of Rand and the others coming back.  Graendal and Taim fled because they were afraid of Androl because Androl is such a super awesome guy.

 

Isn't the POV of this Androl's?  He may have thought they were fleeing from him when they were fleeing from an unknown threat.  The fact that Androl can make Gateways means 1 of 3 things from their pov -

 

1, Androl has the access key - the least damaging to them but unlikely as their's no reason he should know of what's causing the barrier in the first place let alone how to circumnavigate it. 

2, Androl has access to some previously unknown ter'angreal, or skill that allows him to defeat the dreamspike - which leaves the possibility of what else they have

3, Someone else removed the Barrier - logically has to be one of the Lightside guys, as the Shadow has no reason to remove the Dreamspike, which means the BT is no longer isolated, that their's a possibility of several hundred strong unturned Ashaman coming back (they were all strong enough to join the fight and have gained experience fighting since then), possibly including Rand, several of the AS, Nyn, Cads... 

 

Given the situation that they're aware of staying gains them little - the chance to convert a few more Ashaman, but risks a lot, either unknown ter'angreal or an army coming back to fight them, leaving risks nothing and costs little.

 

If that was Sanderson's intention than it needs to be in the book.  We got Androl's POV and in that POV its clear that Androl defeats two forsaken at the same time by causing them to run.  As for costing little, by having Taim flee he loses claim to the black tower which has hundreds of Asha'man to command, that is quite a lot of power.

[BFG]

 

 

 

I think a large part of it was that the dreamspike had vanished at the same time the attack began.  They didn't know that it was Perrin and Lanfear who removed the dreamspike.  They probably assumed Rand and a whole bunch of Aes Sedai and others where after them, and decided to flee before they were able to arrive/find them.

 

Basically, they weren't running away from Androl, they were running away from what him being able to make a gateway represents.

 

The character say nothing about that, the book has Androl feel the wall preventing him from making large gateways vanish, then Androl gets pissed off, and starts defeating Taim's forces and then the forsaken flee.  

 

 

"The woman called Hessalam fled.  As she darted through a gateway of her own, Taim followed with a couple of others.  The rest were not so wise --- for a moment later, Androl opened a gateway as wide as the floor, dropping the other women and Asha'man through it to plummet hundreds of feet."  

 

The book says nothing about Graendal or Taim being afraid of Rand and the others coming back.  Graendal and Taim fled because they were afraid of Androl because Androl is such a super awesome guy.

 

Isn't the POV of this Androl's?  He may have thought they were fleeing from him when they were fleeing from an unknown threat.  The fact that Androl can make Gateways means 1 of 3 things from their pov -

 

1, Androl has the access key - the least damaging to them but unlikely as their's no reason he should know of what's causing the barrier in the first place let alone how to circumnavigate it. 

2, Androl has access to some previously unknown ter'angreal, or skill that allows him to defeat the dreamspike - which leaves the possibility of what else they have

3, Someone else removed the Barrier - logically has to be one of the Lightside guys, as the Shadow has no reason to remove the Dreamspike, which means the BT is no longer isolated, that their's a possibility of several hundred strong unturned Ashaman coming back (they were all strong enough to join the fight and have gained experience fighting since then), possibly including Rand, several of the AS, Nyn, Cads... 

 

Given the situation that they're aware of staying gains them little - the chance to convert a few more Ashaman, but risks a lot, either unknown ter'angreal or an army coming back to fight them, leaving risks nothing and costs little.

 

If that was Sanderson's intention than it needs to be in the book.  We got Androl's POV and in that POV its clear that Androl defeats two forsaken at the same time by causing them to run.  As for costing little, by having Taim flee he loses claim to the black tower which has hundreds of Asha'man to command, that is quite a lot of power.

 

 

Assuming the Ashaman reach the Last Battle loyal to Taim over Logain, that's not going to last fighting side by side with Shadowspawn or against what are obviously the Forces of Light.  Any unturned, non DF Ashaman are going to end up an enemy Force behind your lines.  Leaving a few days before the last battle costs the Dark side maybe 20 Turned Ashaman (assuming they actually do convert faster with female Channelers present).  Compared to the rest of the forces in play, this isn't that much.  So yes, leaving early costs them little and negates the threat of what may be coming. 

 

We're seeing what happens through Androls eyes and therefore what he sees is in character - he doesn't know about the dreamspike, doesn't know it's been removed, doesn't know that that would worry the Forsaken, doesn't know that's why they're fleeing.  We see later on from Demandreds pov that he doesn't dare weaken himself to a point where Rand can attack him, from another pov we wouldn't see this, and I think it's reasonable to assume that all the Forsaken are wary of taking on Rand given what he's done to them already.

[TristanWebb]

If that was Sanderson's intention than it needs to be in the book.  We got Androl's POV and in that POV its clear that Androl defeats two forsaken at the same time by causing them to run.  As for costing little, by having Taim flee he loses claim to the black tower which has hundreds of Asha'man to command, that is quite a lot of power.

 

 

Brandon gets alot of flak for being too blunt, now this :P

 

As it is, him fleeing the BT doesn't lose him too much as all the non-converted would be lost to him in a day or two when he sends them off on the side of trollocs. You have to remember that they were recruited by asking them to fight for the Dragon.

[Suttree]

If that was Sanderson's intention than it needs to be in the book. We got Androl's POV and in that POV its clear that Androl defeats two forsaken at the same time by causing them to run. As for costing little, by having Taim flee he loses claim to the black tower which has hundreds of Asha'man to command, that is quite a lot of power.

 

 

Brandon gets alot of flak for being too blunt, now this :P

 

Haha

[Charred Knight]

If that was Sanderson's intention than it needs to be in the book.  We got Androl's POV and in that POV its clear that Androl defeats two forsaken at the same time by causing them to run.  As for costing little, by having Taim flee he loses claim to the black tower which has hundreds of Asha'man to command, that is quite a lot of power.

 

 

Brandon gets alot of flak for being too blunt, now this :P

 

As it is, him fleeing the BT doesn't lose him too much as all the non-converted would be lost to him in a day or two when he sends them off on the side of trollocs. You have to remember that they were recruited by asking them to fight for the Dragon.

 

When have I ever made the complaint that Brandon was too blunt?

 

My complaints on the book is that the payoffs for stuff talked about for over two decades were weak (Logain's Glory happens after the book ends, Padan Fain is killed in a comedy scene).  Characters are killed off without ever making it look like the author actually cared about them (to numerous to list), the poor quality of the Black Tower storyline (Androl does too much, Logain does too little, the majority of named characters are turned leaving about 5 guys left, the majority of Asha'man disappear from the plot, Taim comes off as pathetic, the plot frequently undermined the point Sanderson was making).

 

I have no problem with a writer being blunt and making sure the audience understands whats going on.  

[Suttree]

 

If that was Sanderson's intention than it needs to be in the book.  We got Androl's POV and in that POV its clear that Androl defeats two forsaken at the same time by causing them to run.  As for costing little, by having Taim flee he loses claim to the black tower which has hundreds of Asha'man to command, that is quite a lot of power.

 

 

Brandon gets alot of flak for being too blunt, now this :P

 

As it is, him fleeing the BT doesn't lose him too much as all the non-converted would be lost to him in a day or two when he sends them off on the side of trollocs. You have to remember that they were recruited by asking them to fight for the Dragon.

 

When have I ever made the complaint that Brandon was too blunt?

Don't think he meant you personally Charred. One of the most frequent complaints about Sanderson is his blunt plotwork and "tell don't show" style. He frequently has characters announce their intentions and is very heavy handed in conveying info instead of subtlety leading the reader as RJ did. BC was just riffing off that.

[fionwe1987]

Actually, although it is not explicitly mentioned, the Asha'man are much more innovative than the Aes Sedai. As a whole, they are on par with the wondergirls for discoveries. It is that we just don't see it on-screen. 

Have you forgotten that mere moments after Nynaeve revealed the safety of using Fire and Earth in Healing, the Yellows starting innovating how to use all Five Powers to achieve all kinds of Healing? They basically seem to have come up with the entire suite of Healing weaves in about a week or two. Same with Gateways, or means to defeat the Oath Rod, or means to hear things far away and communicate at a distance, and any number of other things. Aes Sedai innovation was not so much stifled as held at bay by the Tower's moribund strictures on experimenting. Once the safety of it was demonstrated, we've seen quite a lot of innovation from the Aes Sedai. And that's hardly surprising. The Sisters have a long history with saidar, and even the weakest Aes Sedai is a skilled channeler, compared to the average. That kind of familiarity and skill only increases chances of good innovation. We've seen them come up with wholly new stuff like detecting male channelers. When Rand heard of it, he thought he would maybe try to work it out later. He had no hopes of the Asha'man figuring it out on their own.

 

Talents are a different matter, however, it is again implied that Asha'man also have a bunch of Talents. Flinn and Androl are the only ones we really actually see using their Talents, however, it is implied that other Asha'man have similar Talents. 

This is true.

So while the Asha'man may not have the knowledge the White Tower does, nor do they have the knowledge Rand could have given them- they are much more "modern" than the Aes Sedai. They are much more willing to "invent" new weaves. Just like the Bonding that Canler discovered. 

Not anymore, though. The age of Aes Sedai lack of innovation is past. They now openly talk of learning to fly. It is not dismissed as a moronic Novice idea anymore.

 

I don't think there will be a problem with weaves in the 4th Age. In fact, I would say the Asha'man would outstrip the Aes Sedai given a century or two if the White Tower doesn't start expanding their horizons. (Although I believe that they will, albeit slowly) 

They've started.

 

If it wasn't for the Shadow infiltrating the Black Tower (and you can say the same for the White as well) creating chaos - they would have been able to advance even further. With that threat gone, I would say innovation would be at an all time high in the Black Tower. Unlike the Aes Sedai (some would say foolishly) they are willing to push the boundaries. 

That's the thing, though. The Aes Sedai can balance the risk-taking and safety behaviors much more. They're intimately aware of the dangers, but now know that there are ways to experiment that won't lead to total disaster. 

edit: As for Logain being a poor leader choice: I say, what better choice?

He's certainly the only one who had the skills and the desire. The BT seems to be filled with people like Saerin. Capable of leadership, but reluctant to take it. Logain seems to have been the only significant exception.

 

First, the guy gets severed from the Source - yet manages to find the will to live on .

This was a by-product of Siuan's plan for him, and was greatly augmented when he overheard Min talk about her Viewing of his future glory. Siuan and Leanne had no such assurances, and they picked themselves up much more quickly. So let's not laud him too much for this. Left to himself, he was a broken shell, in the Tower. Not that that's something he can be blamed for.

 

He gets Healed, and instead of being a bitter ass (although he may think like it) he goes to the Black Tower.

He went because Egwene told him of it, and suggested it to him. If freed without knowledge of the BT, he'd have made it there eventually, perhaps. But would it have been soon enough?

 

The guy then rallied the Light in the Black Tower, Taim (who is supposed to be the leader) feared him and couldn't control him. The man managed to gain the loyalty of half the Black Tower and went to Rand.

Yup. This is where he truly starts earning some points. He could have done any number of things once he reached the BT. He took the tough route, and he deserves respect for that.

 

He then gets captured by the Shadow and subjected to a 13x13 and manages to last dozens of sessions, when Evin couldn't even manage one, and Emarin - who is no pushover - barely lasted two. 

Again, something he deserves a lot of respect for. Given Brandon's writing, we'll never know, but I wonder how much of his resistance was fueled by hope from Min's Viewings. 

Yet despite all of this he gives up the second most powerful sa'angreal in the world - despite his fear induced by the taint and not wanting to be captured again - to save refugees, which provides the Black Tower no benefits (at the time, of course it does turn out that it helped a great deal.) He did it because he was still a good man at heart. 

While I agree, its not like his giving up on the sa'angreal wasn't at least partly prompted by his inability to reach it.

 

Only Rand has endured more than Logain- no other character in the series has - they either broke and turned to the Shadow or died. 

Well, I disagree. Siuan was put to the question, and she gave away what she wanted, and kept back what she had to keep back, and then bounced back in no time at all when she was freed. Moiraine was captive with little hope of rescue, in daily pain, had her power stripped from her slowly, and knew she had walked into this with her eyes open. Lan went through what is almost certainly the most painful loss we know of in the series, that turns people suicidal. Egwene was damane for a month, given immense pain, stripped of all control, and reduced to a mere animal. Morghase was compelled, raped, tortured, captured, beaten, reduced from a position of great power to nothing. All of these are in the same ballpark as what Logain endured, and several of these characters dealt with their situations better.

That shows how strong Logain is. 

No doubt. He was given an arc that closely parallels that of several major characters for a reason. It makes it easier to believe he will be a leader of substance, and achieve much, having recovered from the kind of ordeal he's been through.

[Rhienne]

 

Barid Bel Medar, on 27 Jan 2013 - 13:28, said:

Actually,

although it is not explicitly mentioned, the Asha'man are much more

innovative than the Aes Sedai. As a whole, they are on par with the

wondergirls for discoveries. It is that we just don't see it on-screen. 

Have you forgotten that mere moments after Nynaeve revealed the

safety of using Fire and Earth in Healing, the Yellows starting

innovating how to use all Five Powers to achieve all kinds of Healing?

They basically seem to have come up with the entire suite of Healing

weaves in about a week or two. Same with Gateways, or means to defeat

the Oath Rod, or means to hear things far away and communicate at a

distance, and any number of other things. Aes Sedai innovation was not

so much stifled as held at bay by the Tower's moribund strictures on

experimenting. Once the safety of it was demonstrated, we've seen quite a

lot of innovation from the Aes Sedai. And that's hardly surprising. The

Sisters have a long history with saidar, and even the weakest Aes Sedai

is a skilled channeler, compared to the average. That kind of

familiarity and skill only increases chances of good innovation. We've

seen them come up with wholly new stuff like detecting male channelers.

When Rand heard of it, he thought he would maybe try to work it out

later. He had no hopes of the Asha'man figuring it out on their own.

I agree, and just want to add the example of the Grey Sister who is planning to figure out how to fly (Yukiri, I think?).  She doesn't even seem to have a particular talent with Travelling but manages to come up with all sorts of unique ways to use them when the pressure is on.

[Yamezt]

 

I don't think there will be a problem with weaves in the 4th Age. In fact, I would say the Asha'man would outstrip the Aes Sedai given a century or two if the White Tower doesn't start expanding their horizons. (Although I believe that they will, albeit slowly) 

They've started.

 

I agree with Fionwe1987. Imho, I think while RJ wrote about male and female channellers working together to create great wonders, he also hinted it could become an "arms" race. 

 

When Nacelle discovered the weaves to see a Man's weaving in salidar, we see in Rand's POV that Asha'man were working to work out how to do the same for Saidin users. While it certainly may not play out as an "arms" race, there is an element of competition between the two towers, and competition most likely would bring innovation.

 

Examples of previous "innovations" which compelled the opposite side to work out their versions:

 

Gateways - "rediscovered" by Rand --- Egwene worked out a way for woman to do the same.

Healing severing - Discovered by Nynaeve -- Flinn (was it through Logain?) worked out a way to do the same.

 

As to whether Asha'man or Aes Sedai will outstrip each other in weaves, I think it will simply just wax and wan between both sides - if one discovers something, it is more likely than not spurring the other side, whether through competition or just knowledge, to work out their versions.

[XXX]

 

Actually, although it is not explicitly mentioned, the Asha'man are much more innovative than the Aes Sedai. As a whole, they are on par with the wondergirls for discoveries. It is that we just don't see it on-screen. 

Have you forgotten that mere moments after Nynaeve revealed the safety of using Fire and Earth in Healing, the Yellows starting innovating how to use all Five Powers to achieve all kinds of Healing? They basically seem to have come up with the entire suite of Healing weaves in about a week or two. Same with Gateways, or means to defeat the Oath Rod, or means to hear things far away and communicate at a distance, and any number of other things. Aes Sedai innovation was not so much stifled as held at bay by the Tower's moribund strictures on experimenting. Once the safety of it was demonstrated, we've seen quite a lot of innovation from the Aes Sedai. And that's hardly surprising. The Sisters have a long history with saidar, and even the weakest Aes Sedai is a skilled channeler, compared to the average. That kind of familiarity and skill only increases chances of good innovation. We've seen them come up with wholly new stuff like detecting male channelers. When Rand heard of it, he thought he would maybe try to work it out later. He had no hopes of the Asha'man figuring it out on their own.

 

That is not what he thought at all.He thought that the AM will start working on it or something like that.Someone with a e book can provide the quotes.

[fionwe1987]

 

 

Actually, although it is not explicitly mentioned, the Asha'man are much more innovative than the Aes Sedai. As a whole, they are on par with the wondergirls for discoveries. It is that we just don't see it on-screen. 

Have you forgotten that mere moments after Nynaeve revealed the safety of using Fire and Earth in Healing, the Yellows starting innovating how to use all Five Powers to achieve all kinds of Healing? They basically seem to have come up with the entire suite of Healing weaves in about a week or two. Same with Gateways, or means to defeat the Oath Rod, or means to hear things far away and communicate at a distance, and any number of other things. Aes Sedai innovation was not so much stifled as held at bay by the Tower's moribund strictures on experimenting. Once the safety of it was demonstrated, we've seen quite a lot of innovation from the Aes Sedai. And that's hardly surprising. The Sisters have a long history with saidar, and even the weakest Aes Sedai is a skilled channeler, compared to the average. That kind of familiarity and skill only increases chances of good innovation. We've seen them come up with wholly new stuff like detecting male channelers. When Rand heard of it, he thought he would maybe try to work it out later. He had no hopes of the Asha'man figuring it out on their own.

 

That is not what he thought at all.He thought that the AM will start working on it or something like that.Someone with a e book can provide the quotes.

Yeah, I misremembered that.

 

 

Some of the Asha'-man were trying to puzzle out how to duplicate what Nacelle had created, to find a weave that would allow men to detect women's weaves, but so far without success. Well, it would have to be dealt with by someone else. He had all he could manage on his plate at the moment.

 

Of note, this is apparently still the case as of aMoL.